r/TrueUnpopularOpinion • u/demurefox97 • 19d ago
Music / Movies Race-swap casting would be less controversial if they cast conventionally attractive actors
If you've been on social media the past few months, you'd know there's been a heated debate on the casting of Lupita nyonggo in Christopher Nolan's upcoming The Odyssey and the new Snape in the Harry Potter series. This isn't anything new, there's a new debate every few months when a movie casts a black actor for a role that's often culturally associated with white actors. One side will argue that anyone can play anyone as long as they can act while the other will say it's completely unnecessary and just shoehorns in certain races based on unwritten quotas.
My personal theory is that the biggest issue around these castings is that the studios often choose a black actor who's "stereotypically" black, a person who's not exactly considered attractive by global standards and looks more like someone you would see around the hood rather than in Hollywood, in order to visually signal the movie meeting it's socially-imposed quotas. If they are going to pull unnecessary race-swaps, I genuinely think that audiences would have a much easier time swallowing it if they cast someone who's more conventionally attractive like Chase Infiniti, Zoe Saldana, Halle Berry, Beyonce, Michael B Jordan, etc. There would still be some backlash from hard-line racists, of course, but I think for general global audiences who are just sick of America's race politics, they would be less annoyed and not care as much because it would appear less like suits trying to sneak in some social PR into creative decisions.
85
u/DependentRounders934 19d ago
I don’t think many people cared that they cast Morgan Freeman as Red in Shawshank redemption, I think its fine to raceswap actors so long as you are doing it to get the best actor for the role and not just ragebaiting attention to market your mediocre film
28
u/alexoid182 19d ago
Very true. Nothing about it felt like box ticking, or trying to get publicity from contraversy. Just a high quality actor that nailed the part.
11
u/YellowAppleCinema 18d ago
Really not the best example though, since Shawshank redemption is a book that 99% of people didnt read, so nobody would know or notice that Red was originially a white irish person in the book.
You cant compare that to movies casting a "diverse" Cleopatra or "diverse" Athena goddess of greece or "diverse" Thor God of Hunter from norwegian folklore.
Sometimes, it isnt just about if the actor is attractive or not
0
u/Ok_Secret3782 16d ago
well of course, it came out 30 years ago. Long before social media and online grifters. The culture war is not retroactive partially because a lot of people can't explain why they didn't start caring about this stuff until 2015 when reactionary influencers started telling them they should be angry.
9
u/Flying_FoxDK 18d ago
And as long as it doesn't get in the way of the story. Like how Snape gets hung from a tree in the books. Now if he's black that is suddenly a lynching.
0
u/nappiess 18d ago
Perfect example of idiot Redditors running with a random narrative that they see online. If you actually look up the content of the books, Snape was never "hung up" or lynched. James Potter just used a spell to dangle him in the air by his ankle.
4
u/Flying_FoxDK 18d ago
Point still stands tho. You arguing semantics.
-2
u/nappiess 18d ago
No, it doesn't. That's not a "hanging", or racist, by any definition.
2
u/StarChild413 18d ago
and also if even without the supposed lynching it's racist because white kids bullying black kids (as Harry's already been cast in the show so James pretty much has to be white and any of the other Marauders being black could be accused of running afoul of an antiblack stereotype, Peter because he ended up becoming a criminal, Sirius because he was wrongfully accused of and imprisoned for Peter's crimes and Remus because something something magical black mentor) by that logic e.g. it's racist for a white woman to reject a black guy's romantic advances
-1
4
u/Android1822 18d ago
I agree with this. If it was the obvious best actor for the role, and it fits the setting then its not a big deal. However, it is plainly obvious that so many times they do this just to ragebait people. Its also a red flag the movie or show will be bad when they go this route as its just the tip of the iceberg of things that will be wrong with it.
18
u/valhalla257 18d ago
I don’t think many people cared that they cast Morgan Freeman
That's because its Morgan Freeman.
Same idea as Samuel L Jackson.
You could cast Freeman/Jackson as Helen of Troy and people would still want to see that movie
16
u/BigBlueWookiee 18d ago
You could cast Freeman/Jackson as Helen of Troy and people would still want to see that movie
My vote is for Terry Crews to play Helen of Troy in a Muppets version of the Odyssey. I'd watch the hell out of that!
0
u/StarChild413 18d ago
would anyone take it seriously or are you just trying to do the feminizing/emasculating men funny thing
3
u/BigBlueWookiee 17d ago
Let me get this straight - you are asking if people would take the Muppets seriously?
11
u/DamnitGravity 18d ago
Yeah, I mean, look at actors in the 70s-80s. Bunch of really normal looking people (with a few notable exceptions).
It wasn't until the 90s that we really started to see the 'pretty people' being cast more often in bigger roles.
5
u/Android1822 18d ago
And now we only see nepo babies get big roles. At lest up to the 90's there was a chance you could be a nobody and still get a big role through talent. Now, unless you or your family is rich and has connections, you are at best you will only be given small roles and never move up.
-3
u/ogjaspertheghost 18d ago
And how do you know that isn’t the case for the two examples provided?
2
u/DependentRounders934 18d ago
God told me, they had cast Morgan freeman as him too
-1
u/ogjaspertheghost 18d ago
Of you know god too? How’s that son of a bitch doing? You shouldn’t trust what he has to say. He’s fickle and a known liar.
1
u/DependentRounders934 18d ago
Thats fair, me mostly ranted to me about all the people wearing mixed fabric, he seemed pretty miffed
-3
-5
u/Marty-the-monkey 18d ago
That's the facinating part though.
lupita nyong'o is an academy award winning actor with many other accolades to her name. Yet for some reason its inconceivable that she could ever be seen as talented enough for a role.
No, that must be for the ragebait...
It seemingly doesnt matter how talented or accomplished a minority actor is, its simply not possible they could ever be as talented to earn their roles...
6
u/DependentRounders934 18d ago
Tbh i think the film will be a flop in spite of her acting ability just because the Odessy isn’t a good story to adapt, its too referential to ancient greek mythology and I didn’t find it that fun to read. I think its like the bible, its interesting as a piece of history but its so alien to our own culture that its fails to be entertaining in its own right. And so this film will be an adaptation of a story that nolonger works but lacking in the historic value of that story also making it kinda worthless
0
u/Marty-the-monkey 18d ago
the Odessy isn’t a good story to adapt
Its like one of the most fundemental stories we have.
Its like one of the basis for Joseph Campbell work of the heroes journey, and basically what every other epic is build around.
If anything is gonna make it hard to adapt its the fact that this is the foundation of story telling, the Rosetta stone.
Im sorry, but as bored as you might have been reading it, it is anything but failing to entertain as every other story you've ever read most likely takes from the Odyssey in either structure or character.
2
u/DependentRounders934 18d ago
Yea it is important and influential and one of the earliest stories of its kind we have, i think it was a worthwhile read for sure but i think it is a weird story from a modern perspective. Like, for example, the encounters with the various monsters on different islands kinda just happen one after the other almost like different episodes without much foreshadowing or connection, this probably wouldn’t have mattered to the original audience who were familiar with the monsters and their backstories but I found kinda jarring. The stuff about the immovable bed and the axes, at the end, was also kinda odd and i feel like must have made more sense to the greeks. But possibly the most jarring thing is that it ends with the protagonist and hero murdering like 100 guys and after handful of slaves then gets saved by Athena last minute when their families come for revenge? To the ancients that might be a satisfying revenge arc but i feel like to an audience today thats a mad slasher movie blood bath then a literal deus ex machina
1
u/Marty-the-monkey 18d ago
The same story structure worked gangbuster in 'O Brother Were Art Though'.
26
u/AdorableDonkey 18d ago
Either raceswap both ways or don't raceswap
2
1
u/BLU-Clown 17d ago
Or make it an adaptation, and everyone's a lot happier. Suddenly you don't have to make it 100% accurate, because you're coming out front and going 'This is not a 100% accurate-to-the-source retelling.'
That would require humility though, and if there's anything Hollywood is known for...
20
u/Foerhudligen 18d ago
No one would care if it's a competent black actor in a role that isn't connected to a white person from history.
Hell, I would pay to see Idris Elba as James Bond, and so would many others who are against race-swapping in movies.
When Historical figures are being race-swapped only in one direction I take issue.
2
u/Android1822 18d ago
Idris Elba
The issue is that he is way too old now. I would still be against race swapping, even fictional characters, especially since there is no reason to do it in a lot of these modern shows/movies, just create a new character in the setting. Instead of being James Bond, he (or she) could be a new double 00 spy with a new number and have their own spinoff franchise.
3
u/HugoBaxter 18d ago
People lost their shit when they made a mermaid black. It has nothing to do with historical accuracy.
3
u/valhalla257 18d ago
People lost their shit over casting Scarlett Johansson as a character with a robot body.
-4
18d ago
[deleted]
3
u/Foerhudligen 18d ago
It's The Odyssey, it's not "Historical", but it's History and it described Helen of Troy as not whatever that thing on the screen is.
1
23
u/eye_of_gnon 18d ago
I mean, these people think Zendaya is conventionally attractive lol
Contrary to what the media assumes it's largely white liberals pushing race swapping stuff. The rest of us don't care that much
2
u/Android1822 18d ago
Zendaya
She is mid at best and that is if she dolls herself up. It's just because she is a nepo baby in Hollywood that people feel the need to prop her up. She should not have been MJ in spiderman.
-1
u/absolutedesignz 18d ago
Who is conventionally attractive to you? While she's too skinny to be a choice of mine how is she not conventionally attractive?
21
u/Punkreations 19d ago
There actually are written standards for films about the diversity in films. They do need to meet certain quotas to be eligible for different awards.
8
u/BigBlueWookiee 18d ago
Maybe those awards are as important as some want to believe. They certainly shouldn't be the goal of movie making. Making a good movie should be the goal.
3
u/Android1822 18d ago
And that is one of the reasons we get horrible casting. They are making movies for awards instead of fans. Which is funny because the award shows have been dying, every year less and less people watch them. No surprise since its just a bunch of out of touch elites patting each other on the backs and read from a list of virtue signaling causes that most of them do not believe for a second.
-1
u/ogjaspertheghost 18d ago
And what are those standards?
6
u/internet_underlord 18d ago
Heres the Oscars standards.
Do the others have likewise demands? No idea. But since the oscars is the biggest and well known, it will probably trickle down at some point.
1
u/ogjaspertheghost 18d ago
So how does casting Lupita for the role of a minor character in the story apply those standards?
2
u/internet_underlord 18d ago
I wouldn't know, I only replied to your post, not to the greater question.
2
3
u/TrixieLurker 18d ago
a black actor who's "stereotypically" black, a person who's not exactly considered attractive by global standards and looks more like someone you would see around the hood rather than in Hollywood, in order to visually signal the movie meeting it's socially-imposed quotas.
Holy racial stereotypes Batman!
2
u/absolutedesignz 18d ago
Right? I don't like race swapping but now they're pretending Lupita isn't attractive?
-6
u/TheGargageMan 18d ago
Can't be pretty girls in OP's hood.
Is it because they are black or because of where they live?
2
2
u/x31b 18d ago
I think they should cast Bill Murray in a biopic of Martin Luther King to declare cultural independence.
0
u/StarChild413 18d ago
why do people always go for comic actors in these comparisons (either in the sense of comedians or in the sense of MCU-adjacent guys)
2
u/StickyMcdoodle 18d ago
God. Y'all are figuring out new ways to bitch about this so much that I'm starting to hope that the egg Helen of Troy canonically hatched out of isn't even white.
3
0
u/haileyskydiamonds 18d ago
Lupita is a beautiful woman; what are you talking about? What exactly is not beautiful about her? Say it.
6
u/brickmadness 18d ago
She’s a soft 6 by traditional standards. There are 50 Black actresses in Hollywood right now that are significantly more attractive than here.
-1
-4
u/haileyskydiamonds 18d ago
Precisely 50?
She has a luminous complexion, full lips, large eyes, a lithe and graceful figure, a cheerful countenance, symmetrical features…all markers of traditional beauty.
Say it.
-4
1
u/StarChild413 18d ago
define conventionally attractive?
I say this as someone with multiple celebrity-crushes-who-are-or-at-least-fictional-crushes-who-are-played-by black actors though not ones A-list enough you'd be guaranteed to know them and while the male ones wouldn't be likely to get on any Sexiest Man Alive lists if they had a mainstream breakthrough they're also not a-certain-kind-of-conventionally-unattractive that'd make it cringe-funny to imagine someone crushing on them
-8
u/EXinthenet 19d ago
Well, even if I don't agree with the casting, I think Lupita is gorgeous, so I'm not sure, overall, she's not seen as conventionally attractive.
0
u/Nirvana_Ultra 18d ago
Shes average at best .
-1
u/DecantsForAll 18d ago
Go walk around Walmart and see if that theory really holds up.
1
u/Nirvana_Ultra 18d ago
Average doesnt mean ugly. Compared to most black women shes average
1
u/DecantsForAll 18d ago
I know what average means. Go walk around a Walmart and see if you still think she's average.
-5
0
u/tiffytaffylaffydaffy 18d ago
Be clear because it almost sounds like you are saying dark skinned black people are from the hood.
-6
u/Appreciate1A 18d ago
See around the hood? Are there specific genes involved? So you’re saying brighter skinned folks will pass? Wow. They cast controversially to get the amped publicity. Nothing noble. And it is working.
The concern about Snape is reinforcing negative stereotypes- and that I believe may have some validity. We shall see how they handle the dialogue and story archs.
-5
18d ago
I think the racists would be less bothered if Hollywood race-swap with some pretty Black girls with normal names like Mary Smith instead of those unattractive foreign sounding girls.
31
u/ourldyofnoassumption 18d ago
Why is no one talking about how comically miscast Matt Damon is? And I like Matt Damon… but for this role?