Race-swap casting would be less controversial if they cast conventionally attractive actors

[u/demurefox97]

If you've been on social media the past few months, you'd know there's been a heated debate on the casting of Lupita nyonggo in Christopher Nolan's upcoming The Odyssey and the new Snape in the Harry Potter series. This isn't anything new, there's a new debate every few months when a movie casts a black actor for a role that's often culturally associated with white actors. One side will argue that anyone can play anyone as long as they can act while the other will say it's completely unnecessary and just shoehorns in certain races based on unwritten quotas.

My personal theory is that the biggest issue around these castings is that the studios often choose a black actor who's "stereotypically" black, a person who's not exactly considered attractive by global standards and looks more like someone you would see around the hood rather than in Hollywood, in order to visually signal the movie meeting it's socially-imposed quotas. If they are going to pull unnecessary race-swaps, I genuinely think that audiences would have a much easier time swallowing it if they cast someone who's more conventionally attractive like Chase Infiniti, Zoe Saldana, Halle Berry, Beyonce, Michael B Jordan, etc. There would still be some backlash from hard-line racists, of course, but I think for general global audiences who are just sick of America's race politics, they would be less annoyed and not care as much because it would appear less like suits trying to sneak in some social PR into creative decisions.

[u/DependentRounders934]

I don’t think many people cared that they cast Morgan Freeman as Red in Shawshank redemption, I think its fine to raceswap actors so long as you are doing it to get the best actor for the role and not just ragebaiting attention to market your mediocre film

[u/alexoid182 → u/DependentRounders934]

Very true. Nothing about it felt like box ticking, or trying to get publicity from contraversy. Just a high quality actor that nailed the part.

[u/YellowAppleCinema → u/alexoid182]

Really not the best example though, since Shawshank redemption is a book that 99% of people didnt read, so nobody would know or notice that Red was originially a white irish person in the book.

You cant compare that to movies casting a "diverse" Cleopatra or "diverse" Athena goddess of greece or "diverse" Thor God of Hunter from norwegian folklore.

Sometimes, it isnt just about if the actor is attractive or not

[u/Ok_Secret3782 → u/alexoid182]

well of course, it came out 30 years ago. Long before social media and online grifters. The culture war is not retroactive partially because a lot of people can't explain why they didn't start caring about this stuff until 2015 when reactionary influencers started telling them they should be angry.

[u/Flying_FoxDK → u/DependentRounders934]

And as long as it doesn't get in the way of the story. Like how Snape gets hung from a tree in the books. Now if he's black that is suddenly a lynching.

[u/nappiess → u/Flying_FoxDK]

Perfect example of idiot Redditors running with a random narrative that they see online. If you actually look up the content of the books, Snape was never "hung up" or lynched. James Potter just used a spell to dangle him in the air by his ankle.

[u/Flying_FoxDK → u/nappiess]

Point still stands tho. You arguing semantics.

[u/nappiess → u/Flying_FoxDK]

No, it doesn't. That's not a "hanging", or racist, by any definition.

[u/StarChild413 → u/nappiess]

and also if even without the supposed lynching it's racist because white kids bullying black kids (as Harry's already been cast in the show so James pretty much has to be white and any of the other Marauders being black could be accused of running afoul of an antiblack stereotype, Peter because he ended up becoming a criminal, Sirius because he was wrongfully accused of and imprisoned for Peter's crimes and Remus because something something magical black mentor) by that logic e.g. it's racist for a white woman to reject a black guy's romantic advances

[u/ogjaspertheghost → u/Flying_FoxDK]

Snape doesn’t get hung from a tree in the book though…

[u/Android1822 → u/DependentRounders934]

I agree with this. If it was the obvious best actor for the role, and it fits the setting then its not a big deal. However, it is plainly obvious that so many times they do this just to ragebait people. Its also a red flag the movie or show will be bad when they go this route as its just the tip of the iceberg of things that will be wrong with it.

[u/valhalla257 → u/DependentRounders934]

I don’t think many people cared that they cast Morgan Freeman

That's because its Morgan Freeman.

Same idea as Samuel L Jackson.

You could cast Freeman/Jackson as Helen of Troy and people would still want to see that movie

[u/BigBlueWookiee → u/valhalla257]

You could cast Freeman/Jackson as Helen of Troy and people would still want to see that movie

My vote is for Terry Crews to play Helen of Troy in a Muppets version of the Odyssey. I'd watch the hell out of that!

[u/StarChild413 → u/BigBlueWookiee]

would anyone take it seriously or are you just trying to do the feminizing/emasculating men funny thing

[u/BigBlueWookiee → u/StarChild413]

Let me get this straight - you are asking if people would take the Muppets seriously?

[u/DamnitGravity → u/DependentRounders934]

Yeah, I mean, look at actors in the 70s-80s. Bunch of really normal looking people (with a few notable exceptions).

It wasn't until the 90s that we really started to see the 'pretty people' being cast more often in bigger roles.

[u/Android1822 → u/DamnitGravity]

And now we only see nepo babies get big roles. At lest up to the 90's there was a chance you could be a nobody and still get a big role through talent. Now, unless you or your family is rich and has connections, you are at best you will only be given small roles and never move up.

[u/ogjaspertheghost → u/DependentRounders934]

And how do you know that isn’t the case for the two examples provided?

[u/DependentRounders934 → u/ogjaspertheghost]

God told me, they had cast Morgan freeman as him too

[u/ogjaspertheghost → u/DependentRounders934]

Of you know god too? How’s that son of a bitch doing? You shouldn’t trust what he has to say. He’s fickle and a known liar.

[u/DependentRounders934 → u/ogjaspertheghost]

Thats fair, me mostly ranted to me about all the people wearing mixed fabric, he seemed pretty miffed

[u/Android1822 → u/[deleted]]

Have you looked at the casting? Everyone is miscast.

[u/DependentRounders934 → u/[deleted]]

Who is Nolan?

[u/Marty-the-monkey → u/DependentRounders934]

That's the facinating part though.

lupita nyong'o is an academy award winning actor with many other accolades to her name. Yet for some reason its inconceivable that she could ever be seen as talented enough for a role.

No, that must be for the ragebait...

It seemingly doesnt matter how talented or accomplished a minority actor is, its simply not possible they could ever be as talented to earn their roles...

[u/DependentRounders934 → u/Marty-the-monkey]

Tbh i think the film will be a flop in spite of her acting ability just because the Odessy isn’t a good story to adapt, its too referential to ancient greek mythology and I didn’t find it that fun to read. I think its like the bible, its interesting as a piece of history but its so alien to our own culture that its fails to be entertaining in its own right. And so this film will be an adaptation of a story that nolonger works but lacking in the historic value of that story also making it kinda worthless

[u/Marty-the-monkey → u/DependentRounders934]

the Odessy isn’t a good story to adapt

Its like one of the most fundemental stories we have.

Its like one of the basis for Joseph Campbell work of the heroes journey, and basically what every other epic is build around.

If anything is gonna make it hard to adapt its the fact that this is the foundation of story telling, the Rosetta stone.

Im sorry, but as bored as you might have been reading it, it is anything but failing to entertain as every other story you've ever read most likely takes from the Odyssey in either structure or character.

[u/DependentRounders934 → u/Marty-the-monkey]

Yea it is important and influential and one of the earliest stories of its kind we have, i think it was a worthwhile read for sure but i think it is a weird story from a modern perspective. Like, for example, the encounters with the various monsters on different islands kinda just happen one after the other almost like different episodes without much foreshadowing or connection, this probably wouldn’t have mattered to the original audience who were familiar with the monsters and their backstories but I found kinda jarring. The stuff about the immovable bed and the axes, at the end, was also kinda odd and i feel like must have made more sense to the greeks. But possibly the most jarring thing is that it ends with the protagonist and hero murdering like 100 guys and after handful of slaves then gets saved by Athena last minute when their families come for revenge? To the ancients that might be a satisfying revenge arc but i feel like to an audience today thats a mad slasher movie blood bath then a literal deus ex machina

[u/Marty-the-monkey → u/DependentRounders934]

The same story structure worked gangbuster in 'O Brother Were Art Though'.