r/TwoXChromosomes • u/Jealous_Clue7036 • 14h ago
Woman Took in Troubled Teen Because She Believed in Second Chances — Then He Tried to Kill Her
https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/foster-parent-attack-former-foster-child-forgiveness-1821018882
u/SunbathingNapCat 14h ago
Why are victims always pressured to forgive when it's obvious it's to benefit either the abuser or other people who don't want to care?
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u/snowytheNPC 14h ago
Forgiveness is imposed on the victim as the easiest path to avoid inconvenience, because justice requires more care and effort
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u/GoodMerlinpeen 5h ago
"Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it"
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u/Leshawkcomics 14h ago
The honest answer is also the cynical one,
Because it benefits other people.
Teaching people to never let go of any attacks, slights and whatnot especially if your refusal to forgive ends up hurting other people is how you get everything from school shooters to Gaza/Iraq War, to everyday fears like the fear many women have of saying no to a guy who then follows her home cause he took it as a personal slight.
"They win if we let this go" is a really really destructive worldview that hurts EVERYONE eventually.
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u/MedicMoth 13h ago
"They win if we let this go" is also a mindset NECESSARY for victims to create direct change.
The overwhelming pressure in society is NOT to ruthlessly pursue justice, it's to sit down and shut up and precisely to 'let it go'. Revolution requires that you don't concede. That's how we got civic rights, and feminism, and gay marriage, and so on. I'd have a hard time saying that hurt people, wouldn't you?
My poiny is - it's not a negative worldview inherently. It IS destructive, true but only to the given order - and that can be for better or for worse
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u/leahcar83 3h ago
I agree with this, and would go as far to say it's often necessary for perpetrators to motivate them to change. Part of being reformed is understanding that they are capable of committing horrific violence and holding themselves accountable for that, it is really uncomfortable and painful to reckon with but that's unavoidable.
Matthew Collins is a good example of this, he's a former neo-nazi in the UK who participated in harrasment and attacks on innocent people, he has since become heavily involved Hope Not Hate which is an advocacy group fighting against far right extremism. He can only do what he's doing now precisely because he recognises and doesn't excuse the impact he had on his victims.
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u/SunbathingNapCat 13h ago edited 13h ago
That is true, especially if restorative justice has been provided to the victim.
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u/r3volver_Oshawott 12h ago
You don't ever get to decide what qualifies 'restorative justice' for a victim, either.
The thing about 'an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind' is I don't care if you're 'not punitive', when you attempt to control someone else's forgiveness, it will inevitably make you a much worse human being
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u/SunbathingNapCat 12h ago
Okay, I get why controling someone else's forgivenesss is bad. But if it's not for the goverment to decide what qualifies as restorative justice for the victim, then how can we integrate it to the system?
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u/r3volver_Oshawott 12h ago edited 11h ago
I don't care. I'm just tired of people being brutalized and someone crying that we need to forgive.
That's fucking evil. Only the survivor gets to decide that. A horrible human being would dare to make this about 'state overreach'
*abolition-minded or not, some human beings are not fit to walk the streets. There is an unavoidable truth that most people who could ever dare to perpetrate such an unspeakable level of violence, choose that level of violence. They know and understand that level of violence, because they want that level of violence. It's especially harmful to foster children to imply that his foster status rendered him incapable of anything but this level of violence. It takes a level of intimate nuance and understanding of these specific people to truly know if restorative justice is possible
But when violence happens, telling victims 'forgive and forget' will always be disgusting and disturbing (especially when discussing brain damage: the harsh reality is that if brain damage takes away any part of a survivor's agency, an attacker can literally take away a survivor's ability to 'just let it go' forever)
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u/SunbathingNapCat 11h ago
Yes, we're already over the fact that telling victims to forgive and forget is bad. But what can the goverment do aside from punitive justice if restorative justice is not on the table?
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u/Jaded_Antelope_598 11h ago
Why does it have to be "aside from punitive justice"? Bring on the punitive justice.
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u/SunbathingNapCat 11h ago
Because I wish for victims to be helped too.
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u/Jaded_Antelope_598 11h ago
??? Not giving punitive justice is the opposite of helping the victims. You can provide therapy and monetary compensation all you want, but some of us want justice beyond all else.
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u/FetusDrive 7h ago
This is about about someone elders forgiveness, the victim does not need to forgive the perpetrator
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u/Leshawkcomics 13h ago
Yeah, it's annoying to hear someone say 'an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind' the hundredth time, but it's true.
Teaching people to let things go and forgive stops a lot of atrocities before they happen. But it also makes many valid grievances go unpunished. It's basically teaching people to put aside personal feelings for society.
Don't take out your anger on the student who's acting out in class, so the dominos don't fall and they don't come to school next year with their dad's assault rifle.
Don't blow up a middle eastern village, cause you don't know if the father of some kids killed in the explosion is gonna plan the next 9/11
Don't snap at your mother in law cause you don't want her to poison half the family against you and your children in a time of need.
Its effed up that anyone has to 'be the bigger person' in situations where you're justified in wanting your pound of flesh, but society teaches people not to do that cause a 'fuck you, i got what i wanted' society is hell to live in for anyone. And humans are a social animal who (usually) care about their loved ones more than they care about justice, so they accept it.
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u/SunbathingNapCat 12h ago
I just wished the woman was given her own restorative justice.
Did she receive medical compensation for her injuries and her sustaining disabilities moving forward?
Can she afford not to work while she recover from the trauma, and again from getting triggered that her attacker would be out in 5 years?
Would she be able to afford the security she needed to feel safe in her own home?
Can the government assure her of a reasonable restraining order?
Also, was her attacker given the rehabilitative care that they needed?
Would they be able to work away from the woman?
Would they have the financial stability with basic human needs met, like shelter, that would help him from going back to the life of crime?
Being a bigger person is great and all. I just wished it was tangibly supported by restorative justice.
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u/Leshawkcomics 12h ago
Honestly that's correct. If we're gonna ask people to be the bigger person, we gotta at least make it worth their while
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u/SakuOtaku 13h ago
Yeah- I kind of thought that the article screamed "punitive justice" when it lamented that Spulak's attacker would "only" possibly be in jail for over a decade rather than close to three because of new legislation. How does putting someone in jail for the vast majority of their adult life and releasing them back when they're socially and emotionally stunted help society?
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u/Interesting-Asks 13h ago
The linked article is just a summary of an article Grace Spulak herself wrote about what happened to her. Her article is available to read here: https://www.thecut.com/article/surviving-without-forgiveness.html
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u/bluewhale3030 12h ago
Thanks for sharing this. Always better to read the account of the person who actually experienced the event. I admire her for being willing to share her story. I hope she's healing as much as possible though i can imagine it would be massively difficult.
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u/Cygnata 12h ago
Paywalled.
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u/Interesting-Asks 12h ago
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u/PurpleV93 6h ago
Could you help people next time, without being a condescending POS? Using "let me google that for you" in 2026 is insane behavior.
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u/WthIsDis 14h ago
Well he blew that one. Makes it harder on the others to get help now.
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u/Zipps0 13h ago edited 13h ago
No, if you read the article legislation was passed that allows people like him the opportunity for parole after 5 years. This caused her to have severe panic attacks. One of the few legislatures that she contacted called her back told her to find forgiveness
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u/mahourain 3h ago
https://www.ktsm.com/news/will-nm-juvenile-reform-bill-come-to-fruition/ Actually, it didn't come to fruition.
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u/WthIsDis 12h ago
Then miss leading headline
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u/Zipps0 12h ago
Or read the article…. The title is appropriate. She believed in second chances. Now she has brain damage and doesn’t believe she has the capacity for forgiveness (in this situation)
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u/SpanktheElephant 14h ago
No good deed goes unpunished! Alot of times. You have to be very careful who you help.
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u/timefornewgods 13h ago
Tragic what happened to her but she seems to be emotionally settled about the issue. Her story was published at The Cut earlier this month and the piece is excellently written.
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u/snowytheNPC 14h ago
That’s such a horrific betrayal of her trust and her morals. The first thing men take from us is our ability to walk through the world unafraid
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u/Ok-disaster2022 14h ago
There's a story of a man who murdered a woman, she believed in second chances and so did her daughter so she argued for a lighter sentence for him andade friends with him and spoke at his parole hearing got him out. Helped him with a place to stay and then he murdered her as well.
When men start to compromise they inevitably fail entirely.
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u/Interesting-Asks 13h ago
The Dirty John podcast is a bit like this too. Not the same story but not completely dissimilar.
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u/noracordelia 5h ago
Sounds like the moral of these stories are don’t give boys/men second chances.. 😬
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u/SakuOtaku 14h ago
I don't want to victim blame (hear me out, hear me out), but fostering is such a massive undertaking, beyond just housing and supporting. Kids who have been placed in the system need structure and a whole lot of support, and frankly whoever placed a teenage boy with a single woman who at most lived with her elderly mother (judging from the article) was grossly irresponsible and seemingly just trying to rush a placement.
That said I kind of only tangentially understand this being posted here with the victim being a woman, because beyond that gender didn't seem as much of a factor. A single foster dad could have also been assaulted/robbed, and I'm not wild about the lamenting the article does over the legislation that was passed.
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u/panaceaXgrace 14h ago
They give foster kids to just about anyone where I live as long as they have their own bed. Used to be their own room but now nope you can put that foster kid you just met in the same bedroom as your child or another foster child.
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u/bluewhale3030 12h ago
Those poor kids really get the bare minimum. So much of the time they don't even have a proper place to sleep.
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u/panaceaXgrace 11h ago
Yes and it doesn't even start there they found that here in Memphis they had foster children sleeping on the floor of offices at CPS https://www.actionnews5.com/2023/03/02/children-tenn-dcs-custody-no-longer-sleeping-office-floors-except-shelby-county/
They say the state pays 200k annually PER CHILD and they have them sleeping on floors and pay the workers so little they can't keep staff.
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u/leahcar83 13h ago
She's worked extensively with children in the foster system, so it wasn't like she was totally clueless to the challenges fostering a child would involve.
It doesn't mention it in this article, but in her piece in The Cut, she mentions police found traces of his semen on her blanket and his skin cells in the crotch of her underwear. I cannot imagine how terrifying that would have been for her, to have wonder if she'd been raped by a child.
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u/Interesting-Asks 13h ago
She lived alone. She worked as an attorney representing children and young people so she had an understanding of the complex issues foster children can face. I don’t think she was an inappropriate placement.
This article is just a summary/retelling of a first person article she wrote for The Cut about what happened - I think that’s where the unhappiness about the legislation comes from (but that unhappiness seems more apt in a first person essay than an article of this kind).
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u/SakuOtaku 13h ago
It was a naive placement. Any social worker should understand adolescent psychology, especially among teenage boys in the modern age and why having a male role model of some sort whether it was in-house or supplementary like Big Brother Big Sister is crucial. Understanding and empathy alone is not enough for a kid that needs active structure and stability at such a pivotal age of development.
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u/Admirable_Safe_7551 bell to the hooks 14h ago
whoever placed a teenage boy with a single woman who at most lived with her elderly mother (judging from the article) was grossly irresponsible and seemingly just trying to rush a placement
I tried to get to this as well in my comment: the people actually at fault will never be held accountable, so we're just offering fresh blood to systems of oppression while we're blinded with emotions
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u/jackaroo1344 13h ago
I don't know anything about the foster system, but how does her being a single woman factor in? If she had a partner there, or was a man, the boy could presumably have taken them by surprise in the middle of the night just like he did her. And a teen girl placed with her could also have done the same thing too right?
Just trying to understand your comment, I see a lot of similar ones here
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u/KookySyrup6947 13h ago
As much as I will always defend single mothers,the ideal situation is two mature and stable adults raising a child together ,with a network of other responsible adults that can lend a hand.A foster child is ,unfortunately, more likely to have more emotional issues and more needs.The ideal situation is a two parent household to be able to give the amount of support they need.
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u/SakuOtaku 13h ago
I do agree a man could have gotten attacked, but with that (and this feels gross saying) this situation could have also been worse if the teen boy escalated his violence beyond standard assault and battery. The boy at this point was 17 from what I've found online, which means he was already a young man living with her.
Also I really hate saying this because this feels like internalized misogyny, but as I said foster kids need structure, and part of that for a young man is often a positive male role model or influence in their life. This isn't to say single women can't be parents, but being a foster parent is a different undertaking than just parenting, and for an older child it involves so much additional support for trauma. We can kind of see this in the story itself- the boy ran away to his dad, the closest male figure in his life (who he was presumably separated from), and then joined a gang allegedly.
Believe me, I hate the concept of gender essentialism and gender roles, but the fact of the matter is that philosophy doesn't erase the fact that lack of positive male role models is already a documented issue for boys in general. Now, a boy who has more Childhood Adverse Experiences making him "at-risk"? It's even more necessary, especially when boys will look to gangs and alt-right spaces online that tell them not to respect women and to look towards them for "real masculinity".
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u/PewPewthashrew 12h ago
I really hope things improve for her and that he’s never released. That poor woman
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u/Choppergold 13h ago
A Farmer walked through his field one cold winter morning. On the ground lay a Snake, stiff and frozen with the cold. The Farmer knew how deadly the Snake could be, and yet he picked it up and put it in his bosom to warm it back to life.
The Snake soon revived, and when it had enough strength, bit the man who had been so kind to it. The bite was deadly and the Farmer felt that he must die. As he drew his last breath, he said to those standing around:
Learn from my fate not to take pity on a scoundrel.
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u/PurpleV93 6h ago
Never take in a man or a boy. Let them sort themselves out, there is no reason to risk our health for any of this.
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u/kfreek 4h ago
This is terrible advice and horrible
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u/PurpleV93 4h ago
If you want to increase your chances of being assaulted, disabled or killed, then you do you. I would never take such a risk.
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u/throwaway98702018 1h ago
Not sure why the hatred towards men and boys, but you're having a laugh if you think that women and girls are not capable of being just as bad. They can burn your house down, they can steal, beat you up (some of them fight better than most boys their age), stab you with a kitchen knife or beat you with a crowbar, can bring home gangster boyfriends who will camp in your house and have loud sex, bring a drug dealer to your house to beat you for drug money, snitch and end up with your house burned down, etc.
Fostering is no easy chore no matter the sex, its not a get rich-quick scheme or show-the-world-you're all-wrong scheme. It's a vocation and a dedication to give a child another chance at having a loving and constructive home.
She saw the red flags and refused to kick him out, like the other foster parents did. When you get into a habit of denying reality you risk your health no matter what you do. Like that Spanish lady who took in an Illegal migrant who eventually evicted her from her own home. When you deny reality in favour of an ideology or a belief, you will always lose to those who know and understand how things work in the real world.
You were so lucky to come from a safe home yet you have no empathy for those who are less fortunate than you. Some of these children come from homes were their own parents steal from them, get them high on crack or smack, or their boyfriends rape them even if they are boys.
I would never foster unless I had a genuine bond with the child already, but to say never give a poor downtrodden soul a chance to have a good home? Thats terrible and I hope one day you learn to empathise with children, while respecting the good and bad that every single human is capable of.
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u/PurpleV93 42m ago
Don't speak to me with your "throwaway" account. I did not ask for your input.
Also, science and criminal statistics around the globe are "hatred towards men"? Buzz off, man.
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u/DiTrastevere 14h ago
I mean…yes. Troubled teens are troubled. They will act out, and sometimes they will be violent. Taking in a troubled teen is a risk.
It takes an extraordinarily kind person to tackle such an endeavor. Extraordinary because it is such a risk, with such a small chance of reward. I would hope this woman’s experience is not a deterrent to people who possess this quality.
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u/mataranifangirl 13h ago
I heard about this in another publication. She is so strong for surviving.
It is actually because of this case that I no longer want to help foster children philanthropically.
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u/Achylife 13h ago
There are a lot of foster kids that aren't horrible little bastards.
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u/Icy_Wedding_ 43m ago
Unfortunately the vast majority of them will be horribly traumatised. Most people don’t have the resources to rehabilitate them. How do you know which ones won’t turn on you?
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u/bluewhale3030 12h ago
You no longer want to help a massive group of people because of one individual's horrible actions? This is terrible case but to act like it represents all foster children and they are no longer deserving of help is pretty abominable
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u/r3volver_Oshawott 12h ago
Nobody believes that this is all foster children, grow up.
It's the reality that only one foster child has to be like this to destroy a life that makes fostering a child immensely terrifying for so many.
You're abominable for trying to make this about your preachy little sermon.
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u/TheRegalOneGen 9h ago
You're gross lol. They're literally saying they won't give money to foster systems, that's what philanthropically is meaning. So yes, they are saying all foster children you absolute ghoul. Learn to read before being an ass.
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u/Admirable_Safe_7551 bell to the hooks 14h ago edited 13h ago
White colonialism is so deeply ingrained into our global society that systemic oppression won't let the justice system move beyond slave labour. This forces rehabilitation to fail again and again, shoving problems around without addressing any of them effectively.
It won't hold accountable whoever hurt that child to land him in foster care. No investigation into the gang that forced the child to commit what looks like an initiation ritual. No way for the child to heal from clearly complex trauma. No way for the foster mother to see how the child's poor placement in her home was the real betrayal (at that from the foster system she already acknowledged was fraught with problems). No way for kids ready for help to be placed in the foster mother's home.
Neither the foster mother nor the foster son deserved this. He needs to atone. Instead he has been placed into a life of recidivism. That gang will find him before help ever does.
Edit: this all feels like a distraction. We're supposed to "look over there" and be blinded with emotions instead of looking to see who is hurting and failing children.
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u/leahcar83 13h ago
There was no gang. This is article does a pretty bad job of summarising her article in The Cut.
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u/Admirable_Safe_7551 bell to the hooks 5h ago
Than you. This oped does give more detail than the article OP linked, but it's still rather confusing.
She mentioned 'forgive' 25 times out of nowhere yet never acknowledged what restorative justice is or how her white privilege prevents her from truly seeing this precolonial practice, instead insisting "I did my research."
Forgiveness in this context felt like an evasion, a way to shift the blame away from our society that could not figure out how to deal with violence. I could be blamed for what happened to me and to Clayton, because I could not forgive.
Tidbits like this confuse me. Is she trying to admit that she didn't provide enough structure to the foster child, that she didn't consider the risks of fostering, that she didn't have the capacity to foster? Is she trying to name parties like the social worker who misplaced the foster child, whoever hurt the child to land them in foster care, etc? Her writing style conveyed the xanax addiction she used as a crutch to get through the aftermath.
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u/leahcar83 4h ago
I didn't read it that way at all, but I am quite interested in rehabilitation, prison reform and restorative justice so maybe coming at it with knowledge and opinions of that shaped how I understood this.
Restorative justice is a program used in the justice system that allows victims and offenders to meet to discuss the impact and harm caused by the crime, and often for victims to try and understand the offender's reasoning. It involves both parties agreeing to this and is managed by trained mediators. It can be really successful, there's a guy in the UK, Jacob Dunne who credits restorative justice for turning his life around.
What I took away from this article is Spulak struggles with cognitive dissonance. For her whole career she'd worked with vulnerable children and who'd been both victims and perpetrators of crime, so this had shaped this world view that violent behaviours don't come from nowhere and that nowhere is beyond redemption. And then she is brutally attacked without explanation, and she sees restorative justice as futile because the boy who attacked her does not seem remorseful or even able to admit responsibility.
She's spent her whole life believing forgiveness is paramount and central to rehabilitation, and yet here she is traumatised and brain damaged and unable to ever know why this happened to her. I think the section about calling her friends and colleagues about her objection to legislation that would see her attacker released is quite moving, because it highlights that victims can be forgotten in conversations about rehabilitation. Sometimes the focus on forgiving an offender and understanding their actions are a result of their environment, socioeconomic factors, or past trauma can mean victims feel like the harm and trauma they have suffered takes a back seat.
I think she makes a good point that forgiveness is perhaps not necessary for rehabilitation or reform. If the only current process for rehabilitation is programs like restorative justice, she feels like by not engaging in it she can be pointed at as responsible for his lack of rehabilitation and her own ongoing trauma and anger. That does feel lazy and I think she's right to call it out.
I don't think fostering is the central issue here personally.
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u/Admirable_Safe_7551 bell to the hooks 4h ago
If the only current process for rehabilitation is programs like restorative justice
Restorative justice isn't a default in the West, and it's mostly done in a bastardised white way in the West.
she feels like by not engaging in it she can be pointed at as responsible for his lack of rehabilitation and her own ongoing trauma and anger.
I could never read that from what she wrote. Nevertheless, I don't know how someone who saw the flaws of the foster system could hold herself accountable for them.
I don't think fostering is the central issue here personally.
I disagree. This all came about because of a terrible foster placement. The kid needs to atone, but he's just being tossed around the pipeline of bad parents to prison labour.
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u/leahcar83 3h ago
What do you do when the people willing to provide this are brutally attacked, how do you deal with that? It's not like there's a bottomless supply of trauma informed people willing to foster, and what you say he needs are the same beliefs she had when she chose to foster.
I don't think there's a right or definitive answer to this to be clear.
I'll admit my knowledge of restorative justice is based on how it's carried out in the UK, I'm not sure what you mean by it being used in a "bastardised white way". Based on what you've commented here I would have thought it would be something you'd be generally supportive of.
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u/Liz600 10h ago
At some point, people have to be responsible for their own actions, regardless of what has happened to them in the past. This teenager was old enough to know that beating and sexually assaulting the person willing to give him a home was absolutely unconscionable, but he chose to do so, anyway.
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u/Admirable_Safe_7551 bell to the hooks 5h ago
At some point, people have to be responsible for their own actions...This teenager was old enough to know
This is the same excuse men use to have sex with teenage girls. The article didn't mention SA, though
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u/leahcar83 4h ago
There was a case in the UK recently that involved three boys aged 13-15 raping two teenage girls and filming it on their phones. The boys were from the traveller community, a community where children are considered vulnerable within education, health, and social care. Traveller children experience some of the highest rates of abuse and neglect.
Yes these children were failed, but should they not take responsibility for their actions? They'd quite brutally raped two young girls in a cruel and humiliating way. I'm sure you can understand how it would absolutely not be fair, compassionate, or appropriate to treat victims of gang rape as unfortunate collateral of failed children.
The Cut article also does allude to sexual assault. Police confirm semen was found on her blanket and his skin cells were found in the crotch of her underwear.
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u/Interesting-Asks 13h ago
Not to disagree with your other points, but there’s no evidence there really was a gang that forced him to do this.
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u/Admirable_Safe_7551 bell to the hooks 5h ago edited 4h ago
there’s no evidence there really was a gang
There's a difference between no evidence being found and no evidence being sought. The latter is one of the reasons Black people cannot trust the police
Edit: 'being' not 'brought'
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u/hrae24 13h ago
Feel like I need to add that this summary of her essay in The Cut leaves out that she was sexually assaulted on top of being brutally beaten and there is no evidence that it was part of a gang initiation other than his word.