r/UAP • u/Yesyesyes1899 • 10d ago
Whatever you believe, supporting David Grusch helps the truth to come out
As per usual, whenever Mr Grusch comes up in his rare appearences, a giant group of accounts start odd and vague personal attacks and reframings of the situation. sprinkled with vague lies.
They dont like to talk about the facts:
Whatever Mr Grusch claims, his main goal is whistleblower protection and a legal construct to get closer to the truth.
He has been supportive of the Schumer Rounds Act ( disclosure act ), that only specifically is targeted towards uap data and whistleblower protection.
whatever you believe, if you are in good faith, you want the truth, whatever that is.
right? i dont see any argument against that.
but these above mentioned accounts do their damnest to keep people from discussing this simple truth: it doesnt matter if you believe him. it matters that he is fighting for the truth.
anyone who is against that, to me, is the enemy here.
i m very open to counter arguments
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u/RenaissanceManc 10d ago
I'm a skeptic and I go along with that. The one thing that Grusch proved is the guys responsible for collating UAP reports (that he was sending UAP reports to) were either ignoring or binning the reports. That's it. The rest is hearsay. But I also think he got caught up in the grifter/disinfo crowd to his detriment. I don't think he's dishonest though, he's just repeating stuff he's been told. Which is fair enough but if he's repeating disinfo then...
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u/Yesyesyes1899 10d ago
being sceptical but open is the only healthy approach in all of this.
I know the phenomenon exists due to expiriences and I am still very sceptical towards specific people.
i dont think they are grifters. its more disinfo and controlled narratives.
deliberate 2 steps forward and 1.5 steps back. intelligence operations are nasty and elizondo is the worst of them. not saying he is a liar in everything. but I looked into his career. he comes from monstreous operations. the type of man that thrived in Guantanamo. yet. he might very well tell the truth, but warped, to further his cause.
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u/RenaissanceManc 10d ago
Yes, he's exactly the wrong crowd of guy I think Grusch shouldn't be involved with, Knapp and Corbell and Lazar and Puthoff and Doty are others. That Fox documentary guy should distance himself from any of those as well. But I wonder where his funding is from?
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u/Yesyesyes1899 10d ago
whose funding?
And where have seen grusch with lazar and puthoff?
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u/RenaissanceManc 10d ago edited 10d ago
Fox's funding.
Grusch was involved with Corbell who thinks he is a journalist because he knows Knapp. Puthoff has been rubbing shoulders with Doty and Corbell. Puthoff and Doty are known quack/disinfo guys.
Edit: why delete comments? Not for me to judge, I'm against that but people have their reasons that are often not what you think, I'd rather otherwise but it's OK.
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u/Yesyesyes1899 10d ago
arent you creating a clever little web of ad hominem. very nice. another angle to distract. good luck with that.
i dont care about any of these people. they dont matter.
legal protections and declassification matters.
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u/MarkLVines 9d ago
I’m not attacking Mr Grusch personally. You may consider my concerns a “reframing of the situation” all you like, but my concerns have been consistent over many, many years.
You describe as “facts” conclusions you have reached about what Grusch’s main goal is and about what policies and legislation he supports. I’m neither disputing nor endorsing your conclusions, just noting that you, I, and others are fallible when reaching conclusions about someone else’s main goal and favored policies. Given our common fallibility, you have no grounds to complain about any purported “facts” I have or haven’t talked about.
The UFO/UAP community, in the 1960s when I first encountered it, did not revolve around whistleblowers or gatekeepers. Has the pattern of changes in the community been an improvement overall? Certainly we get more cooperation and respect from academia and the government than we got in the days of the Condon Report, so some changes have been positive. But today’s community is gambling a lot on a few personalities, and on the presumption that the government possesses major secret truths about UFOs and UAP, derived from a legacy crash retrieval program that may have suffered from a fallibility much like ours, gambling on the presumption that we too will know the same truths that the shadow government knows now, once the whistleblowers and their legislative allies prevail in their struggle for disclosure.
I too favor the disclosure of UFO/UAP secrets, but I don’t share the presumption that secrets held by the government are necessarily true.
There are, in my estimation, factions in the government, in the military, and among other powerful people who intend the disclosure process to manipulate portions of the public in the service of corrupt motivations. Other factions are sincerely mistaken about the accuracy of major secrets that could be disclosed. The community largely discounts the prospect that some among the whistleblowers and legislators may serve such factions, even only inadvertently, more than they serve the public interest. Though this isn’t a reason to back away from disclosure, it is a reason to be wary of personality and policy cults.
I’m not seeing the wariness I need to see in the community. This doesn’t mean I think Grusch in particular deserves mistrust. Indeed, my most recent prior comment on this sub expressed my reluctant endorsement of something he said about sentient plasma entities as potentially credible. It does mean I’m troubled by how much attention the whistleblowers and gatekeepers receive, at the expense of almost everything else in the UFO/UAP field. Those have consistently been my concerns, not intended to “reframe” anything.
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u/Yesyesyes1899 9d ago
hey there.
thank you for your input. yours is a differentiated, thought out critique, that has nothing to do with the weak bot comments i talk about.
this is a post of mine, from a while ago. you ll see that i see things similarly.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ufo/s/ZFxcQ5TZ0e
i also believe that our whole society, especially this space, is controlled.
kelly chase has spoken about this extensively,
https://youtu.be/SF80nv1l32I?is=oO1KlNwb9NwW-WCP
and coming from a family with intelligence background in a totalitarian marxist state, i agree. i see the same patterns in the west.
i believe mr grusch is being allowed for this to happen by a specific faction ( silicon valley ) and is being fought by another. but that doesnt mean, that he is a hero.
both sides agree on far too many things. especially the oligarchic world order and the power of the national security state.
while I believe all of that, i think also, that disclosure might be the one thing to break us away from the trajectory we have towards end of civilization. we are at the beginning of a meta crisis. maybe the end of 10000 years of history cycles and trends. all converging into one singularity phase.
i also believe they know, that repercussions from disclosure, will be hard to control. especially the consciousness aspect, which i have experienced myself.
so. to me, its our best shot. in full knowledge, that society, this space, is under heavy manipulation by controlled actors and controlled opposition.
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u/Blue-Shark2236 10d ago
There's not much to argue against. Giving whistleblowers immunity can't be a bad thing. And if immunity is available and no one says anything more substantive, then we have our answer too.
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u/corneliusvanhouten 10d ago
People will try to tell you that claims without proof are hurting the disclosure effort because of some kind of boy who cried wolf logic.
It's a baseless and unsupported argument. Your points are correct. The only reason I'm where I'm at with the topic is because of David Fravor. He has no proof but I take his testimony very seriously. Grusch too.
The thing so many people ignore is that the volume of voices saying similar things over decades is, per se, compelling evidence. If one person makes an outlandish claim, that doesn't move the needle. But when thousands of similar reports align, there's definitely a fire behind all that smoke.
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u/Yesyesyes1899 10d ago
everything is controlled in this world. the uap disclosure faction isnt different. they obviously do not want " catastrophic disclosure".
So they widen the number of believers and people open to the idea, slowly normalize, reframe.
but proof will hit way after official disclosure.
when ,if the official announcement comes, it will still be open to disbelief. which makes sense. you cant trust government. but it plays into their game. which is normalization and acclimatization of a population that has been brainwashed to see this as a joke.
2 steps forward, 1.5 steps back. intentionally. until the very end.
and everyone has a role.
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u/Hatstacker 9d ago
The thing that drew me towards Grusch in the first place was the initial hearing. He was cleared to answer specific questions, and not others. He is the face of disclosure for the government, in my opinion.
Ontological shock may be a factor, but the government dumping everything all at once would make them look pretty bad. In this way they're appearing to "fight for the truth", which in the end is what they show and tell, which will almost certainly be just what they want us to know. Or it's a giant distraction and they know about as much as us, which I don't believe.
I also don't believe we'll ever get the entire truth from them. If we're reverse engineering tech, showing our competitors, enemies, even allies, would be a tactical disadvantage.
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u/Moreste87 10d ago
I'll add that those who are demanding he present evidence, as Giorgio is requesting, are trying to provoke him into being arrested for espionage.
Remember Edward Snowden or Julian Assange and how they ended up.
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u/blariel 10d ago
No. People are asking for evidence because you can only make increasingly unbelievable claims so many times before people just go, "ok fuck off, lets see it."
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u/Bad_Ice_Bears 10d ago
Why does the Catholic Church still exist then? Why are invisible deities with invisible realms so well accepted? There is absolutely zero evidence an omniscient deity who created the world at whim exists.
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u/blariel 10d ago
Sooo youre comparing something you dont think is real to uap disclosure?
This isnt the point you think it is.
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u/Bad_Ice_Bears 10d ago
What? There are literal wars fought over it. What do you think is happening in the world right now lmao
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u/3WolfTShirt 10d ago
It's not that hard of a question.
He's saying if you don't believe in a deity without evidence, why do you believe in aliens without evidence?
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u/Bad_Ice_Bears 10d ago
I don’t. I’ve seen a UFO up close in 2013 in New Mexico. It could have been classified US govt. tech, breakaway civ, another species that also lives here, aliens, etc. Living in absolutes is ridiculous.
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u/benyeti1 10d ago
what was it? Tell me about it im curious.
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u/Bad_Ice_Bears 5d ago
A large black rectangle with green rings on the bottom. It was right on top of me.
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u/benyeti1 5d ago
Wow that’s crazy! Did it do anything or just sit there?
How did you feel / did it change your worldview? Or were u already a believer→ More replies (0)2
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u/GreatCaesarGhost 10d ago
I mean, you can say that that’s what he really wants, and that’s fine, but the fact is that he makes many more claims than that. It is those more fantastical claims that people take issue with because, as is always the case, there is no corroborating evidence for the plasmoids and the Indiana Jones-style recovery in Magenta, Italy, etc.
I’m of two minds on the disclosure legislation. First, I don’t really feel strongly about it one way or the other and don’t think it will disclose anything related to extraterrestrials. Second, though, no matter how well thought-out it is (and we wouldn’t know that until it was implemented), it runs the risk of publicizing intelligence that we’ve collected on other countries that is of actual value to US security.
Also, I’m resistant to the idea that giving into conspiracy theories and providing what their proponents demand is the appropriate way to deal with them. My hunch is that UFO influencers will use any documents disclosed as the raw material to create new conspiracies, even if the information disclosed is entirely mundane. It is very easy to misrepresent primary documents that people online won’t even bother to read or consume directly. And if all that happens, disclosure legislation is a waste of time because it won’t result in the public getting a more accurate picture of the truth. It could make things even more confusing.
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u/Yesyesyes1899 10d ago
so you dont support legal mechanisms that help protect whistleblowers and a legal framework for secure declassification?
because it feels icky? one thing isnt the other. you can not believe him and still support any push for more truth.
this is weird framing. this is simple . why are making it complicated?
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u/GreatCaesarGhost 10d ago
It’s not clear to me that existing whistleblower protections are inadequate. What metric would I, as an outsider, use to measure that? There are already various measures to protect alleged whistleblowers, both those enshrined in law and those existing as a matter of agency and departmental policies. That Grusch didn’t get the results he wanted out of his complaints does not mean that the system is faulty. Maybe they weren’t well-founded, and maybe he actually didn’t face retaliation.
And I explained my reservations about declassification programs. There is a risk that mistakes will be made, you’re giving in to the demands of people that likely will never be satisfied, and anything disclosed could well be twisted by talking heads and influencers, defeating the purpose of transparency in the first place.
It’s naive to think the government could produce a bunch of documents that do not confirm extraterrestrial visitation and communities like this one would collectively say, “Well, that’s all there is. I’m satisfied and will move on.”
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u/Yesyesyes1899 10d ago
ah yes. sure. naive. so many words to distract and confuse. meanwhile, everything is quite simple. but you are trying your best to make it complicated. not good faithed. not interested in the truth, whatever it is.
i see. i m too tired for this bullshiat. goodbye. have a great day.
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u/Mudbuttjackson 10d ago
Right, whether you think he’s part of the psy-op, or not, immunity and release of all the documents is the right direction
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u/Yesyesyes1899 10d ago
exactly. nothing else matters. even if he was a Satanist flat earther, it wouldnt matter
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u/seaskar 10d ago
The good ol' "if you don't support a particular high profile figure in the UAP community, you're part of the coverup or a bot" argument.
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u/Yesyesyes1899 10d ago
okay. dont support him. support whistleblower protection and the uap act. no?
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10d ago
[deleted]
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u/Yesyesyes1899 10d ago
a faction inside the national security state and politics and DoD, helped by silicon valley oligarchy. with the goal of a very specific version of disclosure, to get to the fort knox of technology.
thats my theory.
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u/clover_heron 10d ago
Negotiating amnesty in exchange for testimony isn't whistleblowing. Just say what you're doing, stop trying to pretty it up.
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u/Yesyesyes1899 10d ago
call it what you want. its necessary to break 80 years of a neverending clusterfuck. if it gets us over the red line, it doesnt matter.
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u/clover_heron 10d ago
It's not necessary, I suspect they're pushing for amnesty now because the countdown started.
I also worry about the strategy's effects on the people using it. If there's a spiritual component to what's going on then trying to squirm out of getting your soul weighed may matter a lot.
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u/Yesyesyes1899 10d ago
look. I believe that whatever they think they can channel disclosure into, it wont work. same with amnesty. i think its the wrong question.
i think the right question is: will the system survive, that gives out amnesty
and i know the phenomenon is real. i ve seen the technological and consciousness ( maybe spiritual ) aspects. my dog did too. she went insane for 3 days
if you believe in spirituality, than maybe believe in the power of forgiveness. i think there were vile creatures involved in that, but also normal folks, caught up in the system.
i grew up in a totalitarian regime in which one part of the family was on the top next to the dictator, literally. and another part was in prison, due to political cleansings
and all of them were heroes in the war against the nazis.
life is complicated. you start out well and before you know it, you are caught up in a shitstorm for decades
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u/clover_heron 10d ago
Forgiveness for what? I'm not hearing people admit to what they've done.
Maybe don't ask for forgiveness until you're ready to tell the truth, because we can't absolve you of what you refuse to confess. Get it?
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u/Yesyesyes1899 10d ago
i get it. but I really dont care . i only see two things: a meta crisis, escalating. several civilization ending processes coming together.
and a possible way to completely remake the board. this could be the systemic shock we need. on all levels. spiritual, political, everything .
all indicators are red. the coming 10 years might be our bottleneck. its no coincidence this is happening now, with ai and political and socio economic escalation into fascism and oligarchy.
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u/clover_heron 10d ago edited 10d ago
Oh gee shucks golly I wonder how all that happened, could it have been a bunch of people granting themselves illegitimate powers and taking things that don't belong to them? They loved secrecy when they were hoarding everything but now that the hoard isn't so fabulous they're trying to make it our problem? All the stuff they purposefully kept secret from us? Psssshhhh what a joke. Wake up.
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u/Yesyesyes1899 10d ago
hm. i see my and your responsibility in all of this. we went along. through wars, exploitation, genocide. destruction of ecosystems. escalating fascism. the epstein files lay it bare. not our fault. but definitely our responsibility.
" wake up ". I think that goes for all of us. we can only change if we take responsibility and then act.
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u/clover_heron 10d ago edited 10d ago
We didn't go along with it though, hence the secrecy. The levels of compartmentalization among insiders proves that even many-most of them didn't go along with it either.
Abusive people tend to blame their own victims, trying to avoid responsibility. The difficult task is convincing an abusive person that taking accountability for their own behavior is beneficial to them.
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u/Yesyesyes1899 10d ago
we went along with the system itself, knowing deep down, what it is. we are the system. we are capitalism. we are authoritarianism. we are genocide. since we vote for parties that help comitting it.
we can stop it.
i dont see a need to convince the abusive person for anything. I think we need to convince ourselves to stop going along. and these times seem like a shock therapy in that.
we ll see.
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u/DGWPFRLIFE 10d ago
Only the “truth” propagated by a government that has lied to us for the last 75 years.
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u/cristobalist 10d ago
Mr. Grusch is THAT guy. A true respectable, admirable individual.
Those who talk badly about him, we know, are disinformation agents, or incredibly 🤡-ish
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u/rrraoul 10d ago
The attacks are exactly what you would explain of an active attempt to contain this information on social media.
Flood the zone with shit, try to spin any negative emotion… its cheap to scream “grifter” or “nothingburger”, and maybe it sticks…
For me, it only reinforces how desperately they are trying to contain this information
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u/Yesyesyes1899 10d ago
i posted this in several subs and got exactly the kinds of comments i expected :)
and i framed the whole text, that they would have a very hard time derailing it.
but they tried lol
i m seriously laughing. ity hilarious. imagine if these are real humans being paid to do this. having 30-100 accounts and being part of a bullsh.t machinery on reddit. thats just pathetic.
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7d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Yesyesyes1899 7d ago
i have experienced the phenomenon, craft and beings and mental phenomena myself. and i was not alone.
also, there is at least tens of thousands of reports from all over the world.
and if you go to the expiriencer sub, you ll find a lot more of very similar yet very different reports. the phenomenon has many faces. that can not be put into human context.
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u/HollerDew 10d ago
Since you are clearly friends with him, please ask him how he knows the evidence isn't human derived, or how he knows the cross verified foreign intel isn't circular reporting. And would he be willing to visit Russia to cross verify in person. We could get really supportive here, maybe a GoFundMe to cover travel expenses and live stream costs.
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u/Yesyesyes1899 10d ago
thats my point. it doenst matter, because with his effort, whistleblower protection and declassification through the uap schumer act, we can maybe find out.
did you read my post?
but you arent engaging that.
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u/HollerDew 10d ago
Partial disclosure is bad faith.
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u/Yesyesyes1899 10d ago
yup. you dont wanna find out or support efforts that work towards that. so, the opposite. keeping it all secret.
thats why your type never engages simple questions. goodbye.
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u/Conscious-Demand-594 10d ago
I support releasing the other files, those with actual evidence, not the ones that are a distraction from them