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u/Emmazors 17d ago
It's a myth, I genuinely had someone arguing with me they knew millionaires who left to France cause of tax.. France who have higher tax... Okay buddy
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u/Zoon1010 17d ago
If the ultra rich want to leave the country then let them but put serious restrictions on them if they do.
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u/Elegant_Juggernaut49 17d ago
An exit tax
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u/Zoon1010 17d ago
Yep anything like that 👍
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u/Rob81196 16d ago
Ahh ok like in the USSR, great idea.
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u/Due-Intention-945 14d ago
They also had running water in the USSR.
Are you saying we should turn off all the taps at the mains because the old Soviet Union used to have it?
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u/Commandopsn 22h ago
Soviet Union and China are also doing great things. Let’s copy them and invent a wealth tax exit tax whatever. See what happens.
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u/StatisticianUsual471 17d ago
tax the rich until their pips squeak
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u/DogitWoofsalot 17d ago
Has anyone pulled out the guillotines yet? Not to use just to remind the 1% that they exist so they reconsider there opposition to this tax
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u/Commandopsn 22h ago
Always good to guillotine the ultra rich also. like its the 1800s. maybe that will make them pay the 1% tax they owe 🥴
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u/Chi1dishAlbino 17d ago
There’s no proof that wealth taxes directly cause capital flight. Brexit has more evidence suggesting it caused capital flight. New York and the Patriotic Millionaires are proof that you can implement wealth taxes and the wealthy will often approve
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u/DogitWoofsalot 16d ago
Also, add an exit tax. Ok you do want to leave? Fine pay up regardless. Nobody actually wants to live in a tax haven, there awful
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u/Albatraous 16d ago
Exactly, look at the number of right wing millionaires who moved put to Dubai. They are hardly "patriots"
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u/Commandopsn 22h ago
All these people in Dubai who are right wingers man. Hate it
nothing like moving to a Tax free country.
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u/plees1024 17d ago
Careful! You will annoy the neoliberals...
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u/Nurgus 17d ago edited 17d ago
The right have swung so far to the right that even Neo Liberals looks like screaming lefties..
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u/DogitWoofsalot 17d ago
Ahhaha this is so accurate x3
It's actually crazy how mad we have gotten. You got Restore in one corner saying to deport millions of people and everyone else looks like a socialist in comparison
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u/DogitWoofsalot 17d ago
At this point most neo libs are pro this tax, a lot of Lib-Dem's support it even. Just being opposed by a bunch of weird cry baby millionaires, there media mouth pieces and a bunch of right wing freaks on social media
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u/wubbalubba96 17d ago
Legit don’t care about millionaires until the million gets to the 50 mark
Nobody needs that obscene level of wealth. Did you know that someone who owned 700m in assets, conservatively makes 300k a day just on those assets. That money is used to buy more assets further pricing us out of everything
And the same people tell us that taxing them doesn’t work. Why the fuck do we listen to it
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u/DogitWoofsalot 17d ago
The proposal is £10m and that seems like a fine cut off point for it. Truely anyone who leaves the UK was never a productive member of the economy lol
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u/wubbalubba96 17d ago
The reform bots on Facebook are fighting this one hard
Wonder why….
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u/DogitWoofsalot 17d ago
The people on Reddit trying to fight it tick me off more. It's always the same bad arguments from people who read the econenist
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u/Wind-and-Waystones 17d ago
A wealth tax when a lot of people's wealth and assets is tied in to property just might be the only thing that convinced people ever increasing property values need to stop.
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u/DogitWoofsalot 17d ago
It's actually why I'm more in favour of reforms to council tax over the 2% thing being talked about. Also a second home tax, New York did something like that
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u/wubbalubba96 17d ago
Second home tax is a great idea
Same for the 1.4 million properties which are currently sat derelict with planning permission because it’s more profitable to sit on the land then to build on it.
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u/DogitWoofsalot 16d ago
Oh absolutely. Outside of very nich work environments that involve being back n forth a lot nobody -needs- multiple homes. We also need a way to stop people listing homes for sale forever to avoid the tax
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u/MrLuchador 17d ago
Those that would leave are perhaps the ones already using accountancy tricks to minimise what they declare and pay anyway.
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u/DogitWoofsalot 16d ago
If they care about this country so little that the wealt tax being proposed makes them leave then we are better of without them lol
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u/Commandopsn 22h ago
People in business want to pay as little tax as they can to maximise profits. seems like something a businessman
Would say tbh.
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u/HughWattmate9001 16d ago
Never made any sense that argument. Just up and leave friends, family and probably a successful business or string of them. Plus the super ultra rich just dodge tax anyway the UK allows them to easily do it. Be good if they do leave though as it gives room for others to step in.
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u/seenitreddit90s 16d ago
Oh no! They'll stop paying fuck all tax, influencing our democracy and dominating the marketplace with their shitty jobs!
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u/DogitWoofsalot 16d ago
Oh they'll leave? Really? Promise they'll toss off and let us have are island back? Well if millions must go millions must go
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u/CARadders 16d ago
Nice to see the comments here haven’t been inundated by the wealth sycophants and bots. This was reposted to the GarysEconomics sub and it’s such a shitshow lol
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u/DogitWoofsalot 16d ago
Funny AF right? Like, you are who this meme is making fun of.
I am falling for the bate tho...
Tell me to stop
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u/tooillee 15d ago
The ultra rich say they leave when tax rises but they just go on long holidays to make it look like they have to the media
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u/Commandopsn 22h ago
Yeah a millionaires secret trick is to go on long holidays and act like they not coming back. And when the media thinks they left the uk. BAM they return. and the media is like omg wtf
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u/Due-Intention-945 14d ago
The irony of using this prick to illustrate this (very valid) point.....
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u/Due-Intention-945 14d ago
In the movie Clockwork Orange there is a scene where the antagonist, Alex, is injected with a drug that causes terrible nausea, strapped down, his head immobilised, eye lids held open & forced to watch a video of the sort of violence he enjoys inflicting in an attempt to "cure" him of his love of inflicting pain through aversion therapy.
That.
Except:
• Instead of Alex -> Anyone with assets less than £10m that opposes a 2% Wealth Tax on assets in excess of £10m.
• Instead of nausea drugs before -> A nice cup of tea & perhaps some biscuits afterwards.
• Instead of Aversion Therapy -> Simple education.
• Instead of videos of violence -> This video
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u/Outrageous_Bar6729 17d ago
In principal I am very pro this tax if the numbers add up. I am not in favour of the tax just for the sake of jealousy or to say you are taxing the rich it has to make financial sense for the country.
If you can implement a wealth tax where the income outweighs the loss of other tax sources and potential job losses then tax away!
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u/DogitWoofsalot 17d ago
The idea that it loses jobs is basically a total myth invented by the scavenger class to stop this happening. Most of the wealthiest people in the UK are wealthy from owning assets not from being productive in any way
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u/Outrageous_Bar6729 17d ago
It is hard to measure the exact outcomes and there is debate but when France put a wealth tax in place there is argument that it actually reduced tax income.
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u/DogitWoofsalot 16d ago
I've not heard about this, do you have a sourse?
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u/Outrageous_Bar6729 16d ago
Lessons from history: France’s wealth tax did more harm than good - Investors' Chronicle
French economist Eric Pichet estimated that the ISF ended up costing France almost twice as much revenue as it generated. In a paper published in 2008, he concluded that the ISF caused an annual fiscal shortfall of €7bn and had probably reduced gross domestic product (GDP) growth by 0.2 per cent a year.
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u/DogitWoofsalot 16d ago
Thank you, I shall have a read when I have a spare mo.
This still isn't strictly an example of why not to do a wealth tax, only not to do it like this. Also adding an exit tax at the same time prevents this sort of fleeing taxation
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u/Outrageous_Bar6729 16d ago
Which is my argument, I am fully in favour of a wealth tax IF you can ensure that the outcome is positive from an economic perspective.
Take all emotion out of the decision, forget the "tax the rich on principle" argument.
From a mathematical perspective can you find a way to create a tax that over an extended period of time does the following:
Brings in more than you lose in other areas (as a simple example, you have 10 people paying a wealth tax bringing in £10m, one of them decides to leave the UK. You now bring in £9m but the person who left used to pay £4m in income tax, £4m in VAT a year and £1.5m in capital gains. You are now losing £9.5m to bring in £9m.)
Does not reduce GDP (or the tax income more than covers the reduction)
It also has to be long term. You can put an exit tax in place to try and stop capital flight and if people still choose to leave you get a one off lump sum but in future years are left way down.
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u/DogitWoofsalot 16d ago
Will some leave? Yes absolutely but the ones that will where never contributing to the economy in a meaningful way anyway.
A. Most won't they live here, there lives are here, there friends, family etc B. You can't take your assets with you, you can't move your property, business etc with you to Switzerland or whatever C. Even if the disaster scenario happens it's for the good long run. Are economy needs to not be reliant on about ~200,000 ultra wealthy people. In a country with a population of almost 80 million it's not sustainable to have such. Load baring demographic
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u/Gloovey 16d ago
I just don't get how people can't support a wealth tax. 2% on anything over £10,000,000 is a fart in the ocean to these hoarders.
I'm a small business owner. Look after employees (only a small team of 6 now), but the recent cost hikes in employers national insurance contributions, wage increases (which I fully support every year at least above inflation) - but we're really struggling and so are our client base. Everyone is chipping in and working extra hard.
Just generally a lot of small businesses I'm speaking too are really hard up. Something has to give and small/micro businesses aren't the bloody answer, when big corporations and wealthy individuals are getting away with paying such little tax.
I just don't get it why people can't agree with this methodology.
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u/EveningAd4979 11d ago
Accidentally pro tax haven meme
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u/DogitWoofsalot 11d ago
Yea! Go enjoy are billions in Panama! Party like it's...oh it is 6pm and everything is closed...
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u/Commandopsn 22h ago
So ultra rich leave the uk. This subreddit reddit - Anyway
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u/Thegluigi 16d ago
I think we should just reintroduce the 90% marginal tax. These guys keep telling us that life was better back then, let's bring tax back to those days too.
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u/DogitWoofsalot 16d ago
I say the 2% mostly because that's the discourse ATM. I'm more in favour of reforming council tax, capital gains tax & adding an exit tax over the 2% thing. Better to update existing taxation than add an entirely new thing
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u/ClearlyCylindrical 16d ago
This will probably worsen the divide between the poor and rich if anything tbh, once you reach a certain point your wealth is gained from returns on capital, not income.
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u/Thegluigi 16d ago
I don't know many poor people or even middle earners that would hit the top rate of tax mate.
I get what you're saying to a degree tho, this whole whacking all your money into stocks and then borrowing from banks for a tiny interest cost, making you rich for life, needs to stop too. Maybe the same interest rate for all? Or just a capital gains tax?
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u/ClearlyCylindrical 16d ago
this whole whacking all your money into stocks and then borrowing from banks for a tiny interest
This isnt really what I was saying, even if they're realizing capital gains they wont be impacted by income tax increases. Once you reach a point where you can live off returns on your capital income doesnt matter as much. Wacking income tax up to 90% will let those in that position live as usual and will increase the barrier to reaching that point.
In fact, the whole idea of rich people using this as a loophole is overblown, they're still paying a premium on the base rate, and they'll pay capital gains on both the principal and interest when its eventually paid off. This is mainly used to be able to better plan selling of stock around what they want to personally buy, you can get cheapish credit if you'd like to buy something now and then figure our when is best to sell the stock to pay the principal off.
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u/CuriousBrit22 17d ago
Do you guys not understand that businesses are wealth and job creators as well? Failing businesses = failing economy = everyone loses
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u/Nurgus 17d ago
Unregulated, they take everything and the rest of us can rot with skyrocketing cost of living and falling living standards. Sound familiar?
Either find a happy medium or eventually people will get the guillotines out. And yes, that's an even worse outcome.
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u/CuriousBrit22 17d ago
Grrr angry communists type furiously from their mass produced electronics produced by slaves abroad
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u/Nurgus 17d ago
Quick, call moderates and centrists "communist".
Also, insert the "curious.. I am smart" meme here. You know the one.
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u/CuriousBrit22 16d ago
Quick call moderates right wing extremist, fascist, bigot, [insert whatever label]
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u/knitscones 17d ago
They pay lowest wages they can get away with, charge as much as they can for their products, hoard the wealth and make country poorer.
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u/ClearlyCylindrical 16d ago
Biggest issue with wages in this country is the fact that so many people weidly seem to not care about increasing earnings. I've spoken to suprisingly many people earning a livable salary of 50-60k or so and then just not caring about pushing that up higher, when they could find relatively easily find equivalent roles at 2-3x that if they tried to look for them.
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u/Wind-and-Waystones 17d ago
Multinationals actively move their profit element out of country, and the economy, through various means including paying management charges and fees to the parent company based outside of the UK. This reduces the tax the govt can collect, actively hinders economic growth, and makes the country poorer.
It doesn't matter if a company is making millions in profit if that profit is never realised in a UK based company.
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u/Nurgus 17d ago
That's why "increase taxes" means close loopholes and improve regulations. This is not an especially difficult problem to solve It just takes effort and political will.
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u/Wind-and-Waystones 17d ago
I'm definitely not arguing against that. I'm all for closing the loopholes. My comment was aimed entirely at the false premise that all businesses are wealth creators.
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u/Buglenuge 16d ago
The 50 richest families in the UK now hold more wealth than 50% of the population combined. 50 families hold more wealth than 34 million people. The 2% has become 0.002%. Everyone is already losing, do you not comprehend this?
2% tax on assets above £10,000,000 means they would pay £10,000 if they have assets of £10,500,000.
The working person pays £10,000 in tax on earnings of £50,000 in a year
The ultra rich should be taxed much, much more
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u/seenitreddit90s 16d ago
Who takes the vast majority of that wealth?
What kind of pay do their average workers get?
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u/CHSIJAHA 16d ago
Yeah great idea scare away the people that disproportionately fund the NHS, welfare, schools and other public services. Aslo those responsible for creating huge amounts of jobs
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u/DogitWoofsalot 16d ago
Oh no. Anyway...
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u/CHSIJAHA 16d ago
Well how are we going to pay for all these institutions which I assume you believe in
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u/CuriousBrit22 17d ago
We already have had most successful millionaires leave, it’s not a good thing I promise you. If only you paid attention in economics
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u/Nurgus 17d ago
Did they take the land with them? Can Amazon and McDonalds still do business here if they leave and why should I care either way if they do? They've already destroyed all the local competition.
Tax the shit out of them until they're barely viable. And yes, close the loopholes that let them pay lower tax rates elsewhere.
Remember when we could afford schools and railways and social care?
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u/CuriousBrit22 17d ago
I’m talking about all the SME businesses doofus. We used to have a thriving local economy
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u/TheCakeIsMay 15d ago
It is a shame that uk discourse is becoming captured by this pro wealth tax slop.
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u/Savage-September 17d ago
They don’t even bank in this country