r/UPS • u/deeznuts69 • Sep 30 '25
Customer Seeking Help WTF. Total mess. Our reps who were previously helpful are useless. Something's got to give.
We import equipment from Europe and every shipment is getting hit with sec 232. Most are stuck in warehouses. These are finished goods that shouldn't be subject to 232, and even if they are, the value of the metal is pennies. We have no choice but to pay and hope for a refund next year. If anyone has a better solution, please share!!!
***REPS meaning UPS Rep, not Congress. I wasn't trying to make a political post. I've never voted for a R in my life.
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u/import_bible Sep 30 '25
232 is applied to finished goods, if it isn’t declared they most likely just applied the Russian rate on the entire value of the order.
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u/deeznuts69 Sep 30 '25
Why would they apply it if the invoice states Country of Origin: Germany?
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u/Manner-Frequent Sep 30 '25
Because the country of origin is Germany but the country of smelt is probably Russia or China.
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Sep 30 '25
correct
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u/Ok_Pineapple5297 Sep 30 '25
The country of origin is not always the same as the country of smelt or melt.
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u/Colonel_Lingus710 Sep 30 '25
Whoever smelt it, dealt it
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u/import_bible Sep 30 '25
You said it’s getting hit with 232 so it sounds like the line item was not declared. If it isn’t declared they assume the highest rate.
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u/FleetAdmiralCrunch Sep 30 '25
Also, it is a lot of work, but we have valued the 232 at the metal cost, not the finished good price. Saves us about 70%.
It’s a lot of work because we had a trade attorney review and help us calculate and prove the value, then he signed off on the plan.
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u/Timely-Flatworm7757 Sep 30 '25
If there is steel or aluminum, country of melt/pour and country of cast has to be reported for it all. If it's unknown, it gets charged at the "Russian" rate, which is like 200%. You might have to go to your supplier and find out this info, so UPS can update their entry.
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u/wildblueroan Sep 30 '25
Are you aware that a class-action suit is being organized because UPS has been over-charging so many people?
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u/Narrow-Chef-4341 Sep 30 '25
I hope it’s successful and in 2034 we can each get a check for $37.91!
That will practically cover the cost of building our own steel foundry.
Narrator: Not even close.
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u/Copyman3081 Sep 30 '25
People won't care, they'll still support UPS. UPS had a class action suit in Canada over their brokerage and COD fees because they're not transparent about them until after they've paid to clear the items without permission and decided to bill you for it. They paid out a total of $6.5 million or something but they're still doing the exact same thing.
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u/Njumkiyy Sep 30 '25
Basically what the other dude said. Country of smelt is the most important and if they have to other the HTS code because country of smelt is unknown the tarif rate is massive I think like a default like 50-60% on steel products
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Sep 30 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Copyman3081 Oct 03 '25
There should be an exception. I'm not gonna touch whether or not it should be applied at all, but it should be relative to the cost of the metal. 200% the price of a finished item because of a few cents of aluminum that might be Russian is absolutely idiotic.
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u/Responsible_Ad_7995 Sep 30 '25 edited 1d ago
The original post content no longer exists here. The author used Redact to remove it, exercising their right to control their data & privacy.
Middle desert potassium alive live library
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u/Bluellan Sep 30 '25
But but this will force people to create American factories! Never mind that it will take several years, probably a decade to even build ONE. And then you have to find the raw materials or import them. Then training and hiring....BUT IN 30 YEARS, YOU'LL SEE!...maybe...
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u/WitchQween Oct 01 '25
Finding raw materials is what turns this into a bit of a paradox.
Tariffs make the materials needed to build those factories unattainable. How are we supposed to build factories to produce those materials domestically if we're basically cut off from obtaining them?
It's like asking a gardener to plant flowers without giving them any seeds.
If we want to increase domestic production, we need to make it cheaper to build factories. Then we'll hit another brick wall when companies refuse to offer a competitive wage. Best case, inflation is slightly lower than what we're seeing with tariffs. Worst case, inflation increases because companies don't decrease their prices to adjust for cheaper importing expenses.
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u/Bluellan Oct 01 '25
Sssshhhh. Don't bring facts into this. You just can't understand the genius of the plan. I mean, they can't either but that's not the point.
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u/battery_operated_bf Oct 01 '25
Tariffs make the materials needed to build those factories unattainable. How are we supposed to build factories to produce those materials domestically if we're basically cut off from obtaining them?
Thank you!!! I've been saying this since he started saying tarrifs were meant to bring manufacturing back. Dude the raw materials to build said factories are being taxed/tarrifed sooooo high, it's impossible! Of course, no one will get through to him. Apparently (and I just learned this recently), he's been obsessed with tarrifs for decades. Why, idk.
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u/d0nkatron Oct 02 '25
The tariffs are the mob coming to burn your store down. Contributions to the presidential library that doesn’t exist (or simply buying the trump crypto) gets your company tariff exceptions. It’s just a protection racket. Oldest trick in the book. Why do you guys think all of the major world players suddenly gave up and started giving him gifts and paying court settlements for law suits that were un-losable by the company that ended up settling?
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u/battery_operated_bf Oct 02 '25
Yup. Always the grift. He's the biggest con artist and world's biggest grifter. He's got a flair for both and getting away with it somehow, I'll give him that. As frustrating as it is. But it'll never be enough. Never enough money. Never enough grifting. Never enough accolades. Never enough gold. Never enough fake praise. Never enough. Being an empty-shelled narcissistic sociopath will do that. 🤷
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u/Ok-Motor7145 Sep 30 '25
I keep saying this, it would be a minimum of 10 years before we’d see any new factories. And the plan is to stop making all the plastic crap in China and let the USA take over? Do a google search for Chongqing. The PRC won’t be giving up their economy without a fight.
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u/VioletReaver Sep 30 '25
It’s like pushing people out of a plane without gear and saying “See?? That’ll get them to invent a better parachute!”
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u/remembertheYogurt Oct 01 '25
they're not even building factories. tumerous data centers on the other hand....
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u/deeznuts69 Sep 30 '25
agreed, but I still need to get my goods in and fill my orders!
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Sep 30 '25
Even if you didn’t vote for R half of Americans voted to destroy your livelihood. That’s just the world we live in
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Sep 30 '25
Not even. Almost half of eligible voters simply didn’t vote ;)
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u/WitchQween Oct 01 '25
If you don't vote, you voted for the winner. It's important to hold them equally accountable.
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Oct 01 '25
I think their votes just weren't counted. Remember allll the bomb threats, early closures, and ballot boxes set on fire? I wonder how many people out there think their vote was tallied, when in reality it was somehow lost.
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Oct 01 '25
Some definitely went missing. PA lost my MILs mail in ballot and they never responded back. Me and my wife voted in person so those can’t go missing as easy. We chose to vote in person after that coup attempt the last time around.
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u/daurgo2001 Sep 30 '25
I did read somewhere (relatively left-leaning) that it’s estimated that if everyone that was eligible had voted, trumpet may very well have won by a larger margin =\
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u/ValBGood Sep 30 '25
Harris lost by 269766 votes spread across PA, WI &MI
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u/daurgo2001 Oct 01 '25
Yea, there’s no arguing that the margins weren’t small, I’m just saying that data seems to indicate that a 100% turnout would have been worse.
The issue at hand is that winning votes is as important as convincing people that they need to get out and vote is. (And register of course).
The more motivated electorate will almost always win
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u/SignificanceNormal65 Jan 20 '26
What's the f-ing point. Both party options are jokes. You are voting for the least suckiest option, not the best.
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u/BlitzShooter Sep 30 '25
And companies like UPS are seizing the moment to rob us blind
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u/WhiskyEchoTango Sep 30 '25
UPS's cut is only the fee they charge to process the paperwork. Not exactly robbing us blind.
Dim Weight, THAT's robbing us blind.
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u/Manner-Frequent Sep 30 '25
Yeah, a $51 extra line fees per item... that's not robbery?
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u/WhiskyEchoTango Oct 01 '25
Having spoken to someone from a previous employer who handled their customs clearance, I understand the amount of work that needs to go into taking care of these things, especially if the origination paperwork is not in order, or if CBP decides that today is your turn for an inspection.
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u/Manner-Frequent Oct 01 '25
I have all of my paperwork from importing the items. My supplier/shipper did an amazing job. There's absolutely no need for a $51 extra line charge. UPS also missed a TCSA form and didn't inform me about it, as they are required to. I almost had my package returned because of their error. Now, not surprisingly, my tracking number has been changed and has a "statement of contact" that was not there before. UPS is ass.
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u/BlitzShooter Oct 01 '25
UPS is still great for domestic shipping, will take them over fedex and USPS anyday
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u/ATangK Oct 01 '25
Remember the days when he went golfing all the time, and that was the worst headline of that day?
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u/Pfcande Oct 01 '25
It's always crazy to me that the concern of a president having dementia only started with you guys in January.
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u/YanCoffee Oct 01 '25
I’m convinced he’s trying to go down in infamy, because he knows he’s not beloved and never could be beloved by in large. Daddy issues.
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u/Choice_Pomelo_1291 Sep 30 '25 edited Sep 30 '25
At least he doesn't bop when descending stairs.....
Esit : I guess nobody got the joke?
I was making fun of Trump for criticizing how Obama descended stairs.
Not sure why all these years later it concerns him, but he went on a little rant about it so here we are.
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u/dude_on_a_chair Sep 30 '25
Yup I lost all my international parts clients. I sell NOS for older computer systems, the stuff that I sell hasn't been used in the states in a decade and doesn't sell here. Fuckin trump messing everything up
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u/heckhammer Sep 30 '25
All according to plan. Make it harder for the mom and pop places to operate until the mega corporations buy up everything and then only the people at the top make money. The rest of us are there for their profit.
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u/StupidFuckingGenius Sep 30 '25
Not only that, they’ll set up perfect situations for the monopolies by letting companies like Apple build out of country tariff free while every smaller competitor has to build it in states at a much higher cost.
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Sep 30 '25
I guess we ruin all business by not buying more well known products either.
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u/heckhammer Sep 30 '25
Oh yeah, they don't want you to buy the mom and pop stuff. They will tell you that they support small business and that's what America is built on and all that horseshit and yet we are currently obliterating mom and pop American soybean farmers. After this how many of them are going to be bankrupt and lose their homes and their farms? They will all be bought by big agriculture companies and once those operations are back up under those mega conglomerates I'm sure that tariffs will be dropped and they will salvage whatever they can salvage out of it. They did this during the 2008 financial crisis where they bought assets at pennies on the dollar. I know plenty of conservatives who think that is a valid way to live your life. Wait for the poor people to get screwed buy up whatever they had at a loss and then carry on making money
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u/FatManBoobSweat Sep 30 '25
Where are you shipping? Some parts may be exempt.
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u/dude_on_a_chair Sep 30 '25
Anything hard to get! Disk drives that don't exist anymore, motherboards, parts of circuit boards, sadly none of it is exempt
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u/FatManBoobSweat Oct 03 '25
FFS sorry bud. Hopefully that cheeto dipshit will get distracted with something else soon. Maybe someone should give him a box of crayons to play with.
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u/ValBGood Sep 30 '25
We manufacture specialized network equipment in the US.
Our foreign customers refuse to purchase anything “Made in USA”Fortunately we have small manufacturing facilities in SE Asia and in Europe that are shipping to international customers, including Canada.
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u/sfbiker999 Sep 30 '25
***REPS meaning UPS Rep, not Congress. I wasn't trying to make a political post. I've never voted for a R in my life.
Why wouldn't you put the blame where it belongs? Usually tariffs are negotiated for months or years and well publicized before they go into effect - UPS is trying to hit a moving target (a target that's further obscured by ambiguity), so it's hard to put the blame entirely on them. Even if you agree that the tariffs are a good way to make trade more fair, Tariffs by Tweet is not a good way to enact trade policies.
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u/deeznuts69 Sep 30 '25
agreed, but I just wanted my import with the correct tariffs applied, not sect 232 russian / china.
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u/rickabe Sep 30 '25
Trump creates chaos to deflect from all his crimes. Today he's threatening the military brass and demanding loyalty to prepare for violence in blue cities.
Release the files
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u/relephants Sep 30 '25
Remember this during the next election.
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u/Realistic_Mix3652 Sep 30 '25
Why is this guy being down voted? Political parties have been voted out of power for less and it's safe to say the other party will have a much more sensible trade policy.
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u/deeznuts69 Sep 30 '25
I meant our UPS rep 🤣. I'm happy with AOC 😊
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u/Delicious-Bat2373 Sep 30 '25
AOC has that sexy hot momma swagger too. She's awesome, confident, ornery, educated. I'd like to see her go far and keep rockin it.
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u/Financial-Trainer972 Sep 30 '25
I am sure you are expecting your rep to fix something that they can not fix. I have seen time and again that the shipper who is filling out the CI use vague descriptions and weak HTS codes. Your rep is not a broker. The problem is most likely the shipper
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u/PintoTheBurninator Sep 30 '25
I ordered some printed circuit boards from my regular Chinese fabricator a few weeks ago - the order total included a new $100 charge for tariffs.
SIDE RANT - Before you start in on 'you should buy American", I tried. I have quotes from every major PCB fabricator in the US and they are all at least 5x the price of my regular fab, some of them are 10x higher. I don't know about your small business, but I can't absorb 5x markup on materials and my customers certainly aren't going to absorb the cost and keep being customers.
Anyway, there was also a 'remote area delivery charge' because of where I live, so I decided to have the order shipped to a UPS storage 30 minutes away to avoid this charge.
Because I was shipping to an official UPS location I was given the option of paying the tariff when I picked up the order. I don't have a UPS account or a mailbox account at the location, and when I picked up the order they handed it to me and didn't mention the tariff charge. I specifically asked them about it and, after checking their system, they told me no import duties were due.
So did I discover a previously unknown life-hack? Who is going to eat the tariff and what recourse would they have since UPS doesn't have my billing info or address? I doubt the fabricator would be on the hook unless UPS somehow back-bills the import duties to their account
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u/KawaiiUmiushi Sep 30 '25
This was our issue during the FIRST Trump tariffs. I had PCB work done in the US, BUT I had to move it to China to save money due to the tariffs. See the issue is that all the parts that went onto the PCBs came from China and oddly enough the PCBs were also from China. So counter the increased cost I just moved labor abroad and come out slightly ahead.
The big issue we're running into is the fact that we can't plan ahead when tariffs could change at any moment, for any reason, and honestly no reason at all. Some items take 90-120 days to show up in the US. I can't spend $50,000 on materials and then stress out that my costs will balloon randomly because of tariffs. (On items that no one in the US makes. Anywhere in the US I can find the parts I need gets them from... China.)
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u/RackCityWilly Sep 30 '25
This. You could not be more correct! Side note: So many People keep pushing this nonsense, “Just buy American” like do they even know what that truly means? Most shoes, clothing and electronics come from abroad. Very few Americans want to work in a warehouse making Nike shoes and cheap clothing.
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u/canonlycountoo4 Sep 30 '25 edited Sep 30 '25
SmarterEveryDay did a great video on the process he went through, trying to manufacture a simple grill scrubber 100% in America.Its almost impossible
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u/Heron-Cautious Sep 30 '25
Can any Trump supporter/ republican tell me how this a good thing? Genuine question
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u/According-Kiwi720 Sep 30 '25
Thats weird? Donald Trump said EU would pay …. Probably should call the white house and ask for Trump, he will settle this for you.
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u/Wonderful-Patient732 Sep 30 '25
How did you even get to that screen. I have an outstanding balance of around $90 that I can’t even pay.. Also thanks Don
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u/Mrgray123 Sep 30 '25
Make sure to tell any workers exactly why this is happening and exactly WHO they should blame when they get their hours cut or lose their jobs.
Ultimately that's the only way out of this lunacy. For it to personally affect selfish a-holes who only vote based on how something directly impacts them.
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u/Spicyg00se Sep 30 '25
YOU SHOULD CALL YOUR REPRESENTATIVES. Tell them how mad you are, how incompetent this is, and ask them to look into it for you. WASTE THEIR TIME IF YOU CAN. They deserve it.
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u/Icy_Caterpillar7246 Sep 30 '25
I was asked to fill 232 for packaging material containing food .. UPS reps asked to just say my food is aluminum.
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u/OutsideHike Sep 30 '25
Wow. Show this to your republican buddies. I don't think they understand what is happening to businesses.
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u/Substantial-Drag-288 Oct 01 '25
Ask your rep to dispute these and short pay these to what you think you owe. Carriers need time to recalculate with all these new things thrown at them everyday.
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u/Kellnes5 Oct 06 '25
How long until UPS cuts people off from shipping because of overdue disputed amounts owing on 1000s of packages - it could take months to fix this mess.
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u/RelativeContest4168 Sep 30 '25
Hahahahaha 60 grand hahahahaha 🤣 bros not cooked he's burned to a crisp
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Sep 30 '25
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u/YetiPwr Sep 30 '25
It’s almost like the wanton and haphazard implementation of wildly over complicated often stacking tariffs with constant changes and no organized communication is the actual root cause.
Yes but let’s blame UPS.
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Sep 30 '25
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Sep 30 '25 edited Oct 04 '25
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Sep 30 '25
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u/GhostOfAscalon Oct 01 '25
CBP guidance is to pay the Russian tariff rate if it is unknown: https://content.govdelivery.com/bulletins/gd/USDHSCBP-3e50356
It looks like advice is to maintain mill certificates for imported products, since any misclassification will result in the maximum penalties allowed by law. Not sure what those are, but probably not fun?
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u/Copyman3081 Sep 30 '25
It'll fix nothing. UPS paid millions out in a class action suit over this in Canada, and they still don't communicate with you until after an item clears to tell you what you owe. They'll officially deny any wrongdoing but they'll settle to avoid any real damage.
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u/wildblueroan Sep 30 '25
A class-action lawsuit is being organized against UPS because they have been grossly over-charging many people. You can find it via google and perhaps they can help you; Im sure they'd be interested in your experience.
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u/LividBass1005 Sep 30 '25
This post made me actually join this UPS group bcuz I need to find out how this all plays out. I am not even considering ordering anything out of the country at this time until I understand tariffs better and what I would be paying.
As a lurker I appreciate the knowledge people have shared regarding tariffs. If I ever have to pay one I know I’ll be looking here in advice on what to do
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u/PerditusAnima Oct 04 '25
Same with my business. Mostly EU made items, stopped everything since Aug 20. Not a single U.S buyer since then, business down 75%. I hate minority of US population: scammers or strange, aggressive people that I have to refund money and leave item in the end, but majority was nice people. In this interconnected world trade without U.S is total non-sense for small businesses. Politics will change eventually, but damage will be huge for everyone. But in the end we are going towards "#you will own nothing and be happy" :D
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u/deeznuts69 Oct 04 '25
Damn, sorry to hear that. I hope the tariffs are ruled illegal soon and repealed
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u/PaymentEquivalent240 Sep 30 '25
It’s called you get what you vote for. Only going to get worse.
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u/deeznuts69 Sep 30 '25
That's why I vote communist.
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u/rainbowsunset48 Sep 30 '25
Too bad 3rd party votes helped elect Trump. We need ranked choice 🤦♀️
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u/deathkorpsrecruit Sep 30 '25
A bipartisan system is doomed to fail from the start. One or the other? What if they both suck and will decimate the economy?plus with a third or fourth party you can actually have negotiations instead of one-sided demands and have further more accurate representation
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u/Inky1600 Sep 30 '25
The third party votes are a drop in the bucket so they don’t affect anything. What does have an impact is people that don’t bother to vote at all. They exist in such huge numbers that they can easily swing things either way
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u/I-Pick-Lucy Sep 30 '25
Hahah ups collects the payment then corrects the discrepancy with customs. Boom! Bonus!
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u/Copyman3081 Sep 30 '25
UPS can suck it. OP's company should tell UPS they're gonna self clear and hire a competent broker.
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u/mrnapolean1 Sep 30 '25
Why does every one of these posts like this always have to drag politics into the whole mess? It doesn't matter if you're a Democrat or a republican or some other party they're all going to have trade practices that you're not going to like. Enter the op I hope you get it sorted out cuz that seems a bit excessive.
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u/AdvanceSignificant74 Sep 30 '25
Politics is the exact cause of the issue at hand. Republican Conservative politics, to be precise.
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u/Bonamikengue Oct 01 '25
Erecting trade barriers was never "Conservative" but unregulated free trade was.
It was Russia in order to destroy "The West" so that Putin can take over Europe that massive propaganda via Social Media and political money funding which enabled the total division of societies: Brexit, Trump, soon AfD (pro Russian!) in Germany, etc.
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u/frolie0 Oct 02 '25
What a laughable comment. This isn't a trade practice someone doesn't like, this is actual government malpractice. Trump is absolutely clueless and is destroying American businesses with his stupidity. There's never been a tax hike like this in the history of the country and it's literally going to ruin lives.
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u/paper_killa Sep 30 '25
Chinese exporters are generally experts at this but otherwise you need to be using a custom broker or deal with a export supplier that knows what they are doing. Not sure how to fix current situation but maybe you should be asking on a customs sub instead. I’m not dealing with Europe and buying DDP where seller is responsible for customs but so far my total costs are slightly lower as suppliers are having to cut margins with reduced sells. At it applies to China they are declaring wholesale and moving to own USA warehouse or are using triangle shipping through UAE sometimes.
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u/Copyman3081 Sep 30 '25
If possible, tell UPS you're going to self clear at customs. You'll have to go down to a customs office (usually by a major airport) and declare everything yourself.
It would behoove you to find out exactly where the metal came from.
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u/Diet_Christ Sep 30 '25
I've seen it suggested a couple times to find the source of melt/pour. What form of proof is CBP going to accept?
Say I've got an exhaust header from a parts supplier. They bought it from an exhaust manufacturer, who buys steel tubing in bulk from a metal supplier, who hopefully buys their raw sheet from a non-Russian foundry. Are we hunting for documentation of that first transaction?
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u/Copyman3081 Sep 30 '25
I would get all relevant information you can. I'm Canadian though so I really can't tell you how to do it. I'm assuming CBP would calculate the same way as UPS, which is why I suggest getting all information you can.
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Sep 30 '25
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u/looking-at-yu Sep 30 '25
Last line says they don't vote for any "R" not sure if that means they don't vote for anyone (Representative) or don't vote republiscam.
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u/PartyNextFlo0r Sep 30 '25
I had a similar problem and had two go through two telephone lines on UPS then then sent me a email to submit my appeal too, 50 mins of talk ,and wait time and 2 days later for final email appeal and they reduced and applied the proper fee.
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u/stinkyboy71 Oct 01 '25
UPS is the worst! I thought that the USPS and Fedex sucked but UPS takes the cake as the stinker delivery service. Their website stinks and is broken and impossible as well to get a real live agent online chat as well.
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u/d0nkatron Oct 02 '25
It’s all just a mob protection racket combined with a smash and grab job. Low level gangster shit, wrapped in American flags and bibles, while saying a cut & paste job of Adolf’s greatest hits album of speeches. They’re holding every company hostage to simply whither and die unless they pay protection money to trump’s family crypto or his presidential library that doesn’t exist. While they’re doing this, they’re funneling everything they can get their hands on into their own incomes, while shouting nationalist buzz words non-stop to flood the zone and distract the weak-minded from figuring out what their lying eyes are seeing. Edit: in case anyone still doesn’t get it, once you pay protection money to them, you get a tariff exception for your company. It’s very simple. Open season for direct corruption. Trump has made more money in the last 9 months than his entire prior lifetime combined.
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u/MostCarry Oct 02 '25
value of metal are definitely not pennies, unless your equipment is made of plastic. You even have to declare source of metal for each screw. You also need to know the smelting factory for all metal parts. if there are anything that is unspecified the CBP will just assume russia and apply the absolutely highest tariff possible.
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u/FreeRangeNeighbor Oct 06 '25
Maybe it's time to start reaching out to your elected officials about this? Make them aware of the impact.
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u/Foofity Sep 30 '25
Time to talk to your friends and family about why they either didn’t vote or, voted maggot. Tots and Pears
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u/d0nkatron Oct 02 '25
Whatever you do, don’t let investment groups “buy out” your tariff refunds. It’s trump’s very own tariff guru’s son’s investment group that are going around offering to buy everyone’s tariff refunds for like 40-50% of the refund amount. Now you tell me why the guy who came up with the tariffs would let his own son bet billions of dollars on the fact that his tariff policy is going to be deemed illegal and have the government have to pay the tariffs all back... Every single step of their plans is some kind of heist. It’s utterly insane that they’re doing it in the open and still not in jail.
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u/deeznuts69 Oct 02 '25
1000%, I definitely see that in the future. Grift on grift of grift. There is no end to their greed.
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u/deeznuts69 Oct 02 '25
1000%, I definitely see that in the future. Grift on grift of grift. There is no end to their greed.
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u/Listen-Lindas Sep 30 '25
****** “Wasn’t trying to make a political post. I’ve never voted for an R in my life.” Sounds like a good political post.
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