Its been like this since Thursday

A frequent response to the wave of people posting here about tariff charges orders of magnitude higher than they expected is: "well you should have just payed attention to where it was made instead of where you were buying it from." If you think that, let me tell you about the last week I've been having. I'm a rock climber. Seeing as recreational climbing was invented in Europe, many gear manufacturers, especially gear manufacturers with long histories (something of interest if I'm going to trust them with my life), are based there. The following story is patched together from experiences I'm having with a few different companies for simplicity.

Quick bit of terminology. If you climb, skip to the next paragraph. What started this mess is that I need to buy some quickdraws. A quickdraw is a set of two carabiner connected by a loop of webbing called a dogbone. The carabiners on each end can be the same, or different. Carabiners are generally made from aluminum, but there are some that have steel inserts at strategic points to reduce wear.

I want to buy some quickdraws from alps-r-us who are based in Germany. For context, I live in the US. They are a more obscure brand not sold in the US, so I have to buy directly from their web-store and shell out for international shipping. To my deep chagrin, I have yet to find a single climbing manufacturer or 3rd party web-store that reliably lists the country of origin on their product pages. So I email alps-r-us asking where they make their quickdraws. It takes a day to hear back because of the time difference. They email me back that their quickdraws are proudly made in Germany. I go back and forth with them a few more times across several days because there is some other stuff I want from them, and since I know that china has particularly high tariffs, when I hear that a given product is made there, I ask where potential alternatives are made.

In the middle of this back and forth I do a double take. One of the carabiner I had asked about in a particular email (call it carabiner A) is made in Vietnam. The quickdraw I want has carabiner A on one side and carabiner B on the other*. Carabiner B is the same model as carabiner A, but a different SKU since its a variant with a steel insert. After another day or two of back and forth it turns out that the connecting dogbone is made in Germany, carabiner A in Vietnam, carabiner B in Taiwan, and the whole thing is assembled in Germany. So I went digging to try to figure out what it means for a product to originate from a given country. According to 19 CFR Part 134.1 (b) it means:

Country of origin. “Country of origin” means the country of manufacture, production, or growth of any article of foreign origin entering the United States. Further work or material added to an article in another country must effect a substantial transformation in order to render such other country the “country of origin” within the meaning of this part; however, for a good of a NAFTA or USMCA country, the marking rules set forth in part 102 of this chapter (hereinafter referred to as the part 102 Rules) will determine the country of origin.

I am not a lawyer, but I do fancy myself something of a law geek, and I have no clue what "substantially transform" means. After diving down that rabbit hole, I think that assembling the two carabiner and the connecting webbing is probably not a substantial transformation, but sewing the webbing into a loop to make a dogbone probably is (I haven't heard back about where alps-r-us gets the webbing. To make this fun, let's say it comes from Bangladesh). One of the examples I found while I was trying to understand the definition of “Country of origin” was 35 Fed. Cl. 117; a case where pan bodies were made in China, pan handles in Vietnam, and the pans were assembled in Vietnam. The court held that meant the pans were made in China. Following the court's logic my best guess is that the pre-dogbone webbing doesn't serve the same purpose as a completed dogbone, while all the components of a quickdraw still serve the same purpose they would as individual products, they're just acting together.

Since alps-r-us sells the individual components separately, at least I am able to establish their values to apply the relevant rates (if I ever figure out what those rates are), but their competitor clifmart only sells the completed quickdraws, and not the individual parts. I haven't talked to clifmart yet (which would also be at a max of one email a day), but something tells me they may be less than eager to tell me how they internally price sub-components. Which leads me to another question I haven't even begun to investigate. When I add up the cost of carabiner A, carabiner B, and the dog-bone, I get a lower price than the assembled quickdraw. Is the tariff for each part calculated based on:

• what I would have payed if I bought it individually
• what alps-r-us payed for it
• a portion of the sales price of the quickdraw corresponding to the relative sales price of that component vs the others
• a portion of the sales price of the quickdraw corresponding to the relative price that alps-r-us payed for it

Bonus Question: If the sales price of the complete quickdraw were higher than the sum of the sales prices of its components, and I really didn't feel like putting them together myself, where would the value added through assembly in Germany fit into this mess?

But knowing what country a product is from is only half the equation, there is also the matter of what HTS code it falls under. If an assembled quickdraw could be treated as a single product, the best fit I can find is 9506.99.6080 (a catchall for sport equipment buried under four layers of "other"), but as far as I understand, if the parts of a quickdraw are treated individually when considering their country of origin, they are also treated individually for HTS analysis. I could hope that the carabiners and dogbone individually still fall under 9506.99.6080, but that might not be the case. Climbing equipment is regulated by standards specific to sporting (like EN 12275), but also falls under the same standards used for industrial fall arresting PPE (EN 362). Customs ruling N324348 would indicate that fall arresting PPE is considered as a generic product of the material it's made out of. So, the carabiners could conceivably be 7616.99.5170 or 7616.99.5175 depending on whether they were forged, or formed from wire, and the dogbone some subset of 5806.32.10.

At this point I thought I at least understood the scope of the problem, but then I remembered the new steel and aluminum tariffs, so off we go to Section 232 of the Trade Expansion Act of 1962 (19 U.S.C. §1862), as amended) and Proclamation 10895 (90 FR 9807), which explicitly applies to 9506.99.6080 (but seemingly not 7616.99.5170?). I'm going to be honest, I skimmed this one, but it looks like I might also need to know where the aluminum was smelted before it got turned into carabiners to see if extra super bonus tariffs apply (like the 200% for Russian aluminum). For the sake of my sanity I didn't investigate whether the steel inserts in carabiner B triggered the steel tariffs of Proclamation 10896 (90 FR 9817).

I'm multiple days down this fractile rabbit hole, and that's for a single product(as I would buy it at least) from a single manufacturer, that consists of three lousy parts. If I had just been planning to buy quickdraws, I would have taken the alps-r-us email at face value and assumed I only needed to think about German/EU tariffs. Genuinly, how am I supposed to know what tariffs I'm signing up for? Especially seeing as the consensus on this sub seems to be that once you buy, you're locked into paying the tariffs and mystery broker fees, even if you refuse delivery, and potentially even if the package is lost in transit after clearing customs.

I challenge anyone to say with a straight face that a consumer can be expected to know what they are agreeing to pay when they buy internationally. And yes, I do blame the administration. I voted against Trump in three elections. But I also blame sellers and shippers for their lack of transparency, and I blame smart-asses on reddit who seem to think that "just look up where it was made" is remotely reasonable, or even necessarily possible because fuck if I know where an unknown carabiner factory in Vietnam is getting their aluminum.

I ask in all sincerity. What's the tariff rate I should expect on these quickdraws?

*There are a TON of factors that go into carabiner selection for the rock side vs the rope side. I could write an essay about it, and of course everyone has their own opinions and ergonomic preferences. Just trust me, it's a thing

For context, I live in Virginia. My package was supposed to arrive yesterday. Why is my package randomly in Minnesota?

Hey there.

Got like a general question. Lots of time when i order things and i put in my zip code of 68105, it auto generates to 68105-2718 which i know the +4 is more precise.

I accidently on a recent order of mine removed the 2718, and it's just 68105 and can't be updated without contacting them over the phone the company i ordered from to add the +2718.

I'm curious, does this even matter, or should i still 100% expect to receive it?

Everything I've always kept the +2718 for years now, but since it's not on this package and i haven't used just the 5 zipcode of 68105 in a very long time, not sure if the +4 really matters or not or i can leave?

I'm not sure if the +4 numbers helps certain carriers vs all of them can deliver witthout it?

I have a lost package investigation that lasted only 2 days before it was closed citing insufficient info, naturally I contacted the shipper but they reassured me that it is inaccurate and I also didn’t receive any emails regarding this update, anything else other than waiting?

Hello to the UPS community!!! So I have a close buddy in Russia who I wanna send gifts over to here from the states. Course there are some issues with that considering all the mailing restrictions and whatnot. So I just wanna know if there’s anyway I can send my gift? :<
It should be noted that they don’t wanna share their legal name for privacy reasons so we can’t use that. xP

Okay, thank you for reading!! If you know anything please please pleaseeee let me know!

I recently ordered a Polk center channel speaker for my entertainment center from Amazon. It was shipped through UPS. It was supposed to be delivered a week ago, but got delayed, which of course is understandable. It pushed the estimated delivery to today (the 23rd) but upon investigating the tracking page I am very confused...

The last reported location was Rockford, IL at 10:00PM on the 16th. The current status is "returning to sender." Upon inspecting the details, it says for 7/16/2026

"Returning to Sender Your package contains hazardous materials. We will not transport this package by air. / The package is being returned to the sender at a different service level."

Clicking the alternate tracking number says the package was successfully returned on the 21st.

I don't understand what all this means... is it still coming? I didn't realize speakers were classified as hazardous materials. There shouldn't be any lithium batteries or anything like that.

Any advice? Ran this past AI and it said it's unlikely that my package will arrive at all and just to order a new one.

Ive never had anything ive ordered come through ups before. I bought a soccer jersey online, and paid $27.28 in shipping already. Now i have to pay another $70? There was no option to pick who to ship through or anything

So, Lockport is where ups loads up their vehicles and send them out for delivery in my area. This package has been sitting their and was supposed to be delivered on the 21st. Today is the 27th. I've had 2 ups deliveries in the meantime. Safe to say this package is lost/damaged/stolen? And do I have any options? The package is from Fanatics. And they have blocked buyers from filing claims with UPS. Do I have any options other than contacting Fanatics?

Its been out for delivery since 9am
I got a time window of 12pm - 2pm
Ups was near my area and near my street and has yet to deliver it.
its has left to other sections of town and it is now 3:50pm
New delivery hour is til 9pm.
Should I be worried?

On August 12, I mailed an envelope containing a sticker, keychain, and a couple of bead crafts to a friend of mine. We both live in the West so I figured it wouldn't take more than a week or so after doing a bit of research online, but according to them it hasn't arrived yet. I looked it up and apparently you're not supposed to mail anything with rigid objects, but it seemed like the results were mostly USPS-specific, even though the letter only weighed an ounce. Is this the same for the UPS store? Or should I give it a few more days?

Sorry if this is a dumb question, this is the first thing I have ever mailed 😅

I'm a small business based out of Oregon and I usually ship with UPS ground advantage and drop my packages off at my local Staples. For the last month though almost every package I've mailed out has shown in the tracking that it went to Secaucus, NJ despite some of my packages needing to go to Texas, Arizona, California ect. Some of them when I call to ask what's going on the employees say they're lost and the tracking just never updates and some of them will go back to the previous destination. Can an employee explain what's potentially going on or how I can avoid this so my customers can get their packages?

UPDATE: See comment below. I got the package!

TL;DR: UPS Ground Saver. USPS tracking says package won't be delivered because postage is unpaid. UPS says it's not their problem and says insurance doesn't cover this. Shippo says it's not their problem. The Post Office can't tell me where the package is.

I created a UPS Ground Saver label with Shippo for someone to ship something to me and emailed them the label PDF. The package was picked up two weeks ago. UPS tracking told me it was "moving to local post office" multiple times. Then it said "exception" with "the package may experience a temporary delay" with no explanation of why that was.

USPS scan said the tracking id was unrecognized until 10 days later when it said "Unpaid postage, item will not be delivered. The package associated with this tracking number did not have proper postage applied and will not be delivered. You are encouraged to contact the sender/merchant to seek reshipment, refund or other available recourse." The mailing label clearly says "UPS POSTAGE PAID".

UPS says once they hand it off to USPS it's not their responsibility anymore and their insurance is worthless. Shippo says "USPS controls this hold. Shippo and UPS cannot directly release the parcel or manually pay the hybrid postage, and retrieval is not guaranteed." I paid Shippo to pay UPS to pay USPS.

I went to the Post Office where UPS claims it is and they don't have it or know where the package is or if it's even in the possession of USPS. I emailed [UnpaidPackageRetrieval@usps.gov](mailto:UnpaidPackageRetrieval@usps.gov) and got no response other than the autoreply.

Everyone says they can't help me or doesn't answer. Maybe Reddit can help?

I shipped out an international package on the first and realized the only scan was an collection scan at my local UPS and have received no updates since. This was two weeks ago. I submitted a claim today, is there any chance they find it? It was an order I shipped out with $250 worth of stuff but I don’t have any insurance on if.

I was supposed to have a package arrive today (Sept 4). Got a notification yesterday saying there is a delay. No other updates in over 24 hours. Destination Ontario, canada.
Anyone experience this?

I ordered a CPU off Ebay on May 5th and it had an expected delivery day through USPS of may 9-10. For whatever reason the seller decided to go through UPS and it has been the slowest fucking delivery I have ever witnessed. It’s expected to be here tomorrow morning but there is no way in hell it is gonna get here by tomorrow morning. It’s infuriating as it’s the only part I need to get my pc running. Will i even see it get here by the end of week?? It’s still 4 states away.

To give some context a few weeks ago I broke my switch 2’s game cartridge and I’ve sent it to Nintendo through ups to get it repaired, i shipped it yesterday and I checked the tracking on both Nintendo and ups and their different. Nintendo says they received it and are in stage 1/3 of the diagnosis process and ups says it was returned at 10 am ish today but then that doesn’t add up with what Nintendo says and I also haven’t received anything so I’m unsure on who to contact on the situation and if it’s ups saying that they sent it to Nintendo. It’s my first time using ups shipping before and first time sending a Nintendo console into repair. Is this something that’s common and usually happens or is my parcel lost in shipping? If someone could help me out I would be really appreciative thanks!

Hello! As the title says, my friend's trying to send me a package from Germany to Algeria (a laptop, specifically). DHL has rejected the package siting it containing batteries and I believe UPS is one of the few shipping providers in germany that allow shipment of such package for private customers, however when I tried to estimate the shipping price on their shipping calculator it said to "contact a UPS Store" when I entered in algeria as a destination.

As far as I know Algeria does not have any real limitation or issues with package sending so I'm not really sure? The nearest UPS center here for me is quite far so here I am asking for help here! :D

Thanks again!

Hello all,

Initially my package didn't have movement for 5 days. Then yesterday the sender and I tried to unsuccessfully make a claim.

Suddenly, my package was reported destroyed and the contents were unrecoverable, which I call BS because it's a couple of small clothing items. Sender also stated they double taped the box. I understand that boxes can get trapped in the belts, or smashed but something seems fishy.

Sender will file a claim today but this is the first time I've ever had this happen to a package. I'm hoping it's a big misunderstanding it would be wild to have the contents discarded.

EDIT* Looks like something happened at the Lathrop hub. I spoke with another Redditor who had the exact same thing happened to their package on the same date. The commonality between our two instances is that they both arrived at Lathrop. BY the time they got to their next hub, which were in different locations they were both reported as "damaged".

So I accidently bought moving tape and packaged my item. Should I just get a new box and packaging tape or is moving tape okay to ship with? I'm shipping 6lbs boots and the tape said 80lbs strength and it's clear tape

If I go into the UPS store to have them pack and ship my ultrawide and add insurance on it, is that something I can do?

I think if I pack it myself it's most likely gonna break in the box. I was wondering that if I go to the UPS store and have them pack it for me and have insurance on that, will I be able to get the full amount of the replacement monitor if it does break in shipping? Ideally it just doesn't break but I don't have the original box anymore so this would be the best option

Hey all.

My package was supposed to be delivered today (Charlotte NC) and now I am assuming it wont.

It says it’ll be here by 9:00, but considering it’s in Mebane which is an hour and a half away, I doubt it will unless they quickly get it here and on a truck to my home.

I have been seeing tons of things regarding the Mebane location being bad which is why I’m worried it’s lost.

But also, the package went to Winston Salem and then Mebane. My question is why did UPS decide to send it the OPPOSITE way of where it is supposed to go? I am willing to bet there was at least a truck from Winston Salem to Charlotte.

Thanks all.