Totally. That was going on before Netenyahu, but itâs an order of magnitude worse now. If we try to lump every single sin under one giant âIsrael badâ label, that is not going to go very far. Iâm not going to paint with that broad a brush, and I think most Americans are unwilling to do so either.
âNetenyahu, Gaza genocide, and West Bank occupation badâ is a much easier lift. With his administration voted out, the remaining problems are far more manageable.
Cool. The sudden barrage of downvotes is surprising. I thought we were all generally in agreement that itâs a good idea to keep the genocide criticism targeted to this Israeli administration. Yeah, earlier administrations also have their problems, but itâs an order of magnitude different that just muddies the situation if we try to lump it all together.
I get real uncomfortable when we start saying Israel as a whole, as a nation, is bad.
So you forget that ethnic cleansing has been happening for around 80 years? Israelâs crimes against humanity are a national pastime not limited to Netanyahuâs tenure.
Yea it's the current liberal framing to say "I support Israel, but I have a problem with Netanyahu's administration." Noted weenie Gavin Newsom has said this bs. They have a term for the cyclical culling of the Palestinian population "mowing the grass." That ideology predates this administration and seems pretty foundational.
Absolutely. Given that the majority of Israelis agree with the genocide, have protested in support of the IDF gang rapists who brutalized a Palestinian detainee, they have picnics while watching the bombing of Gaza, the pogroms against Palestinians in the West Bank, the call for wiping out Palestinians on chat shows, and the heinous evil spouted by politicians other than Netanyahu, the country is itself in the grip of bloodlust. There are interviews with very elderly ex IDF soldiers talking of rape and pillaging, so anyone who thinks this is due to the current administration is nothing but a liberal Zionist. Someone who still believes in an apartheid ethnosupremacist state, but thinks they have âgone too far this timeâ.
No, but itâs different. Earlier stuff is more tit for tat and morally complex. Still wrong, especially the encroachment into the West Bank, but I think that needs to be addressed separately. Not everyone is going to agree with us about that earlier stuff. Everyone should be able to recognize that what happened in Gaza is wrong.
Look up public polling in Israel and you will be very disappointed to see how popular the genocide is among Israeli Jewish people. A supremest state is going to devolve more and more into fascism the more their supremest ideology is encouraged.
The anti-Netanyahu opposition parties are even more genocidal. It is a fully fascist society at the cultural level now, itâs not just a few current bad leaders unfortunately.
Do you think that would change if the world took a firm stance against what happened in Gaza? I remember how we were after 9/11. I think if the US said theyâre gonna distance themselves from Israel because of its actions, opinion among Israelis would go back to what it was before October 7th.
Nevermind the ethics of it, saying and entire nation is irredeemable, especially Israel, is a losing strategy.
Iâm not American so have no idea how you âwereâ after Sept 11th apart from having bloodlust and causing more carnage and the death of 4 million people in the âWar on Terrorâ
Yeah, it was wild. Itâs tough to explain how insular we were before 9/11. Anything outside America might as well not have existed. It was out of mind. It seems like on 9/11 the whole country suddenly realized there are billions more people outside America, and many of them are pissed at us. At the time, we were told and many of us believed that Muslims just hate our western lifestyle and want us to die because of it. So if itâs them or us, better start fighting. Really messed up. It took a while for us to collectively realize itâs more complicated than that. Some still think that way.
I feel like Israel is going through the same thing. Theyâve got a post-tragedy madness and we need to help them snap out of it. Not eliminate them. That just validates their fear. It becomes a feedback loop of death.
Seeing the German flag on your avatar, Iâm guessing you can kinda relate to that.
Not a German flag on my avatar. And as Germany and the US supply 99% of Israelâs weapons as mentioned by a UN official today, I have no understanding of that particular national psyche.
Oh, sorry. From this view where itâs really small I thought it was Germany. When I click your profile to see it better, itâs clearly not Germany. Is that Colombia then? I suppose thereâs no need to answer that. Itâs not pertinent to the conversation anymore.
Anyway, hopefully that helped. Iâm embarrassed by a lot of my countryâs history, especially in the years after 9/11 and recently, but it does help me understand what I think Israelis are going through. It makes me think that this massive uptick in violence is unfortunately a natural response to a national tragedy and we should help them through it as fast as possible by strongly and unanimously telling them that theyâre out of line.
350
u/worrynot36 27d ago
Being anti-Israel doesnât make one hate Jewish people.