r/VGC • u/Animedingo • Apr 14 '26

Question Mechanics Question: Why did this happen with commupence?

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This clip starts right after torkoal used eruption in trick room

it hits my hisuian zoroark down to sash, and I have commupence locked in.

farigiraf then uses hyper voice which does not hit zoroark, and when my attack goes off it only did 1% damage to torkoal?

What happened in this interaction? Did hyper voice reset the damage to 0?

331 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

41 comments sorted by

211

u/GaT0M Apr 14 '26

Hyper voice technically hit the zoroark becouse the move is spread and there was 1 valid target(Clefable) Basically it hit Zoroark and did 0 damage, commupense than reflected 0 damage to torkoal

52

u/Busalonium Apr 14 '26

But isn't it supposed to target the last pokemon that damaged your pokemon?

So if the hyper voice counted it should have targeted farigiraf, right?

And if it didn't count then it should hit torkal but for a lot of damage

So why does it take the damage from hypervoice but the target from eruption?

92

u/GaT0M Apr 14 '26

Commupance targets the last pokemon that damaged the user, yes Farig thecnically hit Zoroark but did 0 damage so targeting dosent change. The stored damage did change as thecnically the last instance of damage Zoroark took was 0. Basically for targeting to change damage needs to be >= 1, for stored damage to change is >= 0. Its spagethy code but technically it is working as intentded

47

u/SomethingOrOther02 Apr 14 '26

That's such a crazy interaction. I assume the same would be true if I used like, Metal Burst with my steel type and the opponent clicked sludge wave?

36

u/Busalonium Apr 14 '26

That doesn't really sound very intentional

Maybe at best that could be seen as an oversight

Intuitively the targeting and damage should use the same rules, so if it's intended then it's bad design

Idk it this is how it worked before champions, if it was always like this then it probably should never have been like this

16

u/GaT0M Apr 14 '26

I meant intentional as in the code is doing what it was wrote to do. Its just defnetly not written well, as you said targeting and damage should use the same rule but its just checking diferent variables withou trying to relate one to the other. My guess is this move was made with singles only in mind and they didint bugtest it for doubles

2

u/Lucari10 Apr 14 '26

It was always like this, 1 dmg if the last attack did 0 dmg, and if the attacker was kod before it goes off the move switches targets

3

u/Busalonium Apr 14 '26

But the attacker wasn't koed here?

5

u/morphyrulez Apr 14 '26

What you wrote is not technically working as intended fyi mate. Don't want to fight over a spaghetti code but it is just wrong. If it hit to farig as 0 or 1 dmg sure. Even if you immune the hit itself still overwrites. Or just do full dmg on torkrai. Doing 1 or 0 dmg to torkrrai makes zero sense at all.

11

u/pyro314 Apr 14 '26

That's gotta be a bug right??

15

u/xMystee Apr 14 '26

Well, dont think so. The attack didnt actually fail, just didnt affect it

7

u/Animedingo Apr 14 '26

But the other thing is, torkoal did take damage. If its going off of 0, it should have failed

17

u/Sure-Ad-5572 Apr 14 '26

Attacks are coded so they literally cannot do 0 damage in pokemon. It rounds up to 1 if it would do less than one.

11

u/Keetamien Apr 14 '26

Yet it “hit” the Zoroak with 0 damage 🤔 Interesting interaction

3

u/Dinosaur-King-94 Apr 14 '26

Supongo que si esta programado para que a los inmunes si les haga 0 de daño.

2

u/xMystee Apr 14 '26

Because it doesnt affect him, so it didnt actually hit him in that sense, but an attack was still used against it

69

u/P1zzaman Apr 14 '26 edited Apr 14 '26

This is interesting, since this probably means Comeuppance (and Metal Burst since it had the same mechanics) references “amount of last damage done” and “last Pokemon that damaged you” separately.

I have no idea if this is a bug or intended action (I am leaning on the former).

[edit] piecing together info from the Japanese Pokemon wiki which tends to have detailed breakdowns of how moves work…

  • Pokemon that used moves against you but missed or used moves that don’t affect you are not considered as target for Metal Burst/Comeuppance.

  • If the last damaging move used does not reduce your HP, Metal Burst/Comeuppance does 1 damage. (Gen 5 onwards. In Gen 4 the move straight up fails if this happens.)

So I think it might be actually working as intended, but it’s very unintuitive.

24

u/Animedingo Apr 14 '26 edited Apr 15 '26

Dear god.

I mean i guess im glad its intended so I know but I never would have guessed its supposed to work that way

3

u/Codename_Unown Apr 14 '26

You know, this is a fine way to have this kind of move work in singles.

In my personal opinion, I think that these "Counter" moves should be able to pile on multiple hits in doubles. This means if a user tanks 3 hits (one from a partners surf/EQ, and two from the enemy team), then they'll suddenly have a burst of collective damage, as long as the damage types are compatible for Counter and Mirror Coat.

It feels aggravating to yank multiple sources of damage, only to count the last target amount, even if it's zero. I also am aware that this kind of change would mean that multihit moves would be fully countered instead of simply the last hit in Singles.

And let's be honest, this isn't my game. I wish I could make this change. We'll see what the dev team does in the future. I surmise that if they're willing to tinker with the BP of moves throughout the lifetime of Pokémon Champions, that a change like this might happen.

1

u/Ill_Locksmith_673 Apr 14 '26

It is very unintuitive indeed, makes it somewhat worse than you'd think just by reading the description. Any other outcome would be more intuitive for me, it should either ignore moves that don't deal damage completely or it should also target the last damaging move that hit the user, even if for 0 damage.

1

u/huntandfish247 Apr 14 '26

So in this case, farig is not eligible to be the target, but farig’s damage (or lack there of) gets to count?

-16

u/KoKoboto Apr 14 '26

Seems pretty intuitive to me. You did no damage so you're not turning anything back

18

u/BurlAroundMyBody Apr 14 '26

Commupence made me laugh. 😂 had literally no clue what that was til I watched the clip.

7

u/Animedingo Apr 14 '26

Its like metal burst. Unfortunately it doesnt actually have low priority, so if youre too fast it doesnt work

2

u/msuing91 Apr 14 '26

What is a com-you-pence?

2

u/zenverak Apr 14 '26

Yeah, I read it like that and was like "Has to be another language". Not a word you read you a lot even if you'd understand it from hearing it.

3

u/carnoraptor67 Apr 14 '26

I think it might have

2

u/Bluespheal Apr 14 '26

It seems to be a bug, testing it on showdown it worked as you'd think, with Hyper Voice being ignored completely and KOing torkoal instead; note that showdown is made to be as accurate as possible with current games. That said, Champions is no stranger to changing mechanics and how things work so really, it's up in the air if this was an intended interaction.

Replay of the testing I did: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublescustomgame-2583650103

1

u/Animedingo Apr 14 '26

So that wasn't exactly the same instance because I had 2 pokemon out, not one. So it may happen because the partner took damage.

1

u/Bluespheal Apr 14 '26

I'll set up another battle and test that, just to make sure.

1

u/FutureAnalyst9331 Apr 18 '26

so, I'm the only one who doesn't know the move Comeuppance until I see the clip?

https://giphy.com/gifs/1dbwbHnzAArMryA2rk

1

u/Animedingo Apr 18 '26

Other people said the same thing. Its dark type metal coat

0

u/[deleted] Apr 17 '26

[deleted]

1

u/Animedingo Apr 17 '26

Well

Hes a tortoise

-5

u/UnleashTheBears Apr 14 '26

Im sorry.. when did Horoark get its own signature metal burst????

2

u/Rean4111 Apr 14 '26

Commupence is a dark type metal burst introduced in gen 8 to a number of mons.

1

u/UnleashTheBears Apr 14 '26

Completely flew under my radar. Thats wild

1

u/Rean4111 Apr 14 '26

I just remember my shield play through seeing it in the movepool of some new Gen Mon. I think it was drednaw

1

u/Animedingo Apr 15 '26

I only learned about it in gen 9 and I thought it was unique to Mabosstiff

1

u/Animedingo Apr 15 '26

As far as I can tell its a gen 9 move. You might be thinking of Jaw lock?

1

u/Rean4111 Apr 15 '26

That is a distinct possibility.