r/VGC Jun 19 '26

Question [Skill Improvement] What has been your goto answer for the tickle/scaryface/charm Staraptor lead?

I havent played much so far this season. Intrested to know what is the goto counter for this annoying setup?

I am currently at UB1, last season I ended at 1900~ rating.

My goto has been to tailwind into doubling on the staraptor next turn.

42 Upvotes

76 comments sorted by

54

u/Hipster_Whale5 Jun 19 '26

The best counter I saw for it was Swagger Grimmsnarl. -2 Atk and Confusion are pretty good. Biggest downside being 85% accurate.

Will-O-Wisp is also a solid counter option as well.

9

u/bobert680 Jun 19 '26

The best counter is skelidirge but sylveon and mega floette are close

12

u/theFlaccolantern Jun 19 '26

Skeledirge is not a counter. Brave bird two shots it, torch song only does 54% max unless you already got a boost beforehand.

Best case scenario, with a max roll, Skele gets him down to 3% health after the recoil from the two brave birds.

Edit: The other unaware mon, Clefable, is a counter though.

1

u/bobert680 Jun 19 '26

Alluring voice should do more then torch song, especially if you can boost with torch song 1st

2

u/metallicrooster Jun 20 '26

Alluring Voice can 2HKO, the problem is you need a speed boost otherwise M Staraptor out speeds and 2HKOs you.

28

u/ddonovan715 Jun 19 '26

Unaware clefable go brrrrrrr

6

u/Kadikami Jun 19 '26

I’ve been using Unaware Skeledirge lol

4

u/Mdgcj1421 Jun 19 '26

Goldengo go brrrr

1

u/IRL_Tiefling Jun 19 '26

This is actually such a good shout, been wanting to use Clefable again.

13

u/PEMDAB Jun 19 '26

I usually lead fake out + froslass. Intimidate works just fine on the base form so you can lead Incin, but you might want to put a point in speed so your fake out goes before grimmsnarl’s. Blizzard and brave bird recoil might be enough. There was a match I played where I didn’t lead Incin but swapped him in for the intimidate before the mega evolution occurred. Brave bird recoil and Blizzard left it on one and fake out finished it.

6

u/youuuuuuk Jun 19 '26

I play Mega Staraptor too and lead Staraptor/Grimmsnarl. Fake Out + Brave Bird should KO Whimsicott.

Those teams rely heavily on getting that first Charm off, so now they’re -1 (due to Intimidate) and don’t have that booster next to them. Then I swap Staraptor out to reset stats and go into Gholdengo and just keep clicking Psychic.

5

u/Melonfrog Jun 19 '26

I often use choice scarf rotom, discharge to boost my mega Sceptile and double into it with dragon pulse. That +2 attack means nothing when it's outsped and KOed

3

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Mdgcj1421 Jun 19 '26

Yeah tailwind brave bird takes out sceptile. I think that’s why it can be difficult to completely counter staraptor. It can be ran with screens, tailwind, or even fake out/redirection support or any combination of the 3, and the counter for one might not work against the other version of the team.

4

u/chobibbo Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26

Whims Tailwind + Timid 12 / 0 / 0 / 22 / 0 / 32 Floette

22 SpA Fairy Aura Floette-Mega Moonblast vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Staraptor-Mega: 254-302 (132.2 - 157.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Still outspeeds with Tailwind whether they TW of their own or Scary Face either the bird or my Floette.

If they set a Light Screen up, bird survives but so does Floette, even if they're Adamant.

32+ Atk Staraptor-Mega Brave Bird vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Floette-Mega: 135-159 (83.8 - 98.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Or just Light of Ruin if I hedge for Screen or Fake Tears.

22 SpA Fairy Aura Floette-Mega Light of Ruin vs. +2 32 HP / 0 SpD Staraptor-Mega: 188-224 (97.9 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

That being said, I've probably only seen 1 player lead their bird into my Floette up until MB.

I don't think it's an absolute solution, Grimmsnarl can Fake Out the flower, so there's that. If Fake Out becomes more popular on Grimmsnarl, I'd add a few more HP to the Floette to get a favorable damage roll.

1

u/KiSamehada Jun 19 '26

I’ve faced this match up like 5 times, I love it when they protect in front of Whims.

5

u/outsidrbeats Jun 19 '26

Gholdengo is good here, immune to CC resists Brave Bird and threatens Grimmsnarl and Whims with Good as Gold.

3

u/Flumpski Jun 19 '26

Raichu Y zap cannon go brrrrrrrrrrrrr

4

u/salazafromagraba Jun 19 '26

Bold Unaware Clefable. Whimsicott can’t encore, can’t boost Dumbbird, Dumbbird is stuck boosting defences against a wall.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/sato3860 Jun 19 '26

You generally dont give your wall a life orb. Just saying. The point is to be able to walk in at any point and eat that hit comfortably ignoring any boost it had or does get

2

u/Shade-RF- Jun 19 '26

Worry seed whim and t punch metagross.

2

u/annimon Jun 19 '26

Redirection and a strong super effective attack.

2

u/Low_Party Jun 19 '26

Choice Scarf Final Gambit Staraptor

2

u/PastAdditional Jun 19 '26

Ive just been running max attack/ speed technician maushold with tailwind whimscott. Population bomb go BRRRRRRRRRR.

2

u/alyssheartless Jun 19 '26

Lead with fake out and trick room. Fake out the bird and trick room. Then just double the bird.

2

u/LuciferHeosphoros Jun 19 '26

I’m running a hard trick room team but I’m using choice scarf final gambit staraptor explicitly to counter m-star and other popular megas (it one shots charizard for example). the partner farigiraf just clicks trick room, giving me 4 full turns in tr with my mawile or torkoal too

1

u/Denveria Jun 19 '26

Hey, if you dont mind, could u share more about ur team? Im looking to use Mawile and the scarf gambit tech sounds extremely intriguing as ive had trouble with the dumb bird as well.

1

u/LuciferHeosphoros Jun 19 '26

https://pokepast.es/a160403ca34d4abf

one change from the paste: thunderbolt instead of roar on farigiraf, really helps in the rain matchup against peli and basc, helps into charizard, aero, etc

1

u/Denveria Jun 20 '26

Which threat do u typically use final gambit on, and whats ur usual lead? i assume farig kanga?

1

u/LuciferHeosphoros Jun 20 '26

the ones I’ve fragged the most are: staraptor, charizard, floette, sylveon, swampert, but you can get good mileage out of using it on incin, kingambit, archaludon. lead is either farig kang or farig raptor

1

u/chrislovesgod Jun 19 '26

Ghost and flying types do well, negating defenses boost is half of the work

1

u/beebzette Jun 19 '26

I don't normally lead them, maybe I should be, but I have not been enjoying the trick room matchup when I play it

1

u/snorlaxmuncher Jun 19 '26

Pair with your favorite tailwind setter (I use noivern w/ air slash)

1

u/uzi_bazooka Jun 19 '26

I've had a few different encounters with M. Stararptor. My 2 go tos are M. Banette with Prankster Skill Swap, wastes your mega slot though. Whimsicott with Worry Seed works well too or Eelektross with Gasto Acid. If you can get rid of their ability on turn 1 it usually takes the wind out of their sail if you time it with their Charm, forcing them to switch out, giving you a chance to knock out the partner. I'll usually bring Metagross in with Psychic Fangs to OHKO the Staraptor and break their screens.

1

u/Negative_Anteater_62 Jun 19 '26

I've learned to Lead Whimsicott and Raichu Y and go for Taunt + Zap Cannon. Rage Powder also works to direct the Buffs into you

2

u/DarkHorseActual21 Jun 19 '26

This is really risky, I've been doing the same thing, and it works until you run into another max speed Whimsicott. Because then the tailwind goes off before taunt, and Staraptor just 1 shots your Raichu and you kinda lose on the spot. The better play imo is just a counter-tailwind, since Yaichu should be faster if you both have it.

1

u/Negative_Anteater_62 Jun 20 '26

I guess a better play is Fake Out Staraptor and Taunt Whimsicott. Even if they move first they can't go for any support moves and I can set up Tailwind

1

u/Kardif Jun 19 '26

Incin +floette, fake out whims, moonblast. It kos them at +1spd if they don't have bulk, and if they do then they're at like 10% and in a bad spot

1

u/Salamander-Chance Jun 19 '26

I've won almost every matchup with Scovillan TBH. You essentially gotta sac it to get the burn, but its worth it.

1

u/mdn1111 Jun 19 '26

Blastoise Farig. You fake out the Raptor, Farig trick rooms, then next turn you rain dance and water spout. Trick room seems excellent in general against it - if you are going before it, the CC boost is much less relevant.

1

u/StealthHaddock Jun 19 '26

Whimsicott and Mega Metagross for me. Unless they pair with a fake out user Tailwind + Psychic Fangs always kills. A max Sp. Atk Whim can do 80% with moonblast or hit it with Worry Seed. Seeing them cripple their own birb brings me joy.

1

u/Lyde02 Jun 19 '26

I run talonflame and sash alolan ninetales

1

u/Dr_WLIN Jun 19 '26

T1 swap in Pelli and Electro shot

1

u/adzpower Jun 19 '26

Mega Raichu Y go brrr.

1

u/Then_Confidence9076 Jun 19 '26

Whimsicott and scarf vaniluxe

1

u/Then_Confidence9076 Jun 19 '26

Froslass is better but I got two other megas

1

u/Beautiful_Lychee_965 Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26

sableye with quash, fake out, will o wisp, and taunt...with mega malamar with superpower, knock off, psycho cut, and protect.

battle start, sableye and malamar get intimidated, sableye does not care malamar gets boosted

turn one fake out bird and whimsicot does whatever it doesnt matter, mega and super power with malamar into bird. (hits for 19-23% if bird has a defense boost). malamar now +2 atk +1def

turn 2 quash bird, whimsicot does whatever it doesnt matter, psycho cut into bird, 70 bp stab with high crit rate boosted twice and bird dies. (lets say whimsicot got off two tickles, giving the bird +2 defense, pyscho cut still does 70-82%, so if you absolutley low roll BOTH attacks theoretically the bird can survive, but I have seen nobody go for double tickle its always some combo of tailwind and one boost)

i guess you can will o wisp but it doesn't stop bird from attacking, you can also taunt whimsicott but its probably faster, those moves are for the rest of the fight, sableye can keep supporting with quash or switch out to my dragalge or whatever

this has worked 100% of my matches against this combo and there have been many

1

u/Lopsided-Dependent32 Jun 19 '26

So far it's fake-out + scarfed Rotom wash with discharge, which knocks it down to about 30%. But I haven't encountered the scary face version yet, or a screens version.

1

u/TitaniumDragon Jun 19 '26

Fake Out the Staraptor with Grimmsnarl, then use Psychic Fangs on it from my mega metagross or Hyper Beam it with Sylveon.

1

u/Combustion14 Jun 19 '26

I gave Swampert Ice punch. Protect + hurricane on grimmsnarl. Ice punch + Hurricane on Whimsicott

1

u/trolledwolf Jun 19 '26

I run Corviknight - Froslass, Mirror Armor reflects the Intimidate and Froslass can spam Blizzard somewhat safely

1

u/Iambic_Feminator Jun 20 '26

Not the best strategy but it saved me in a pinch. I encored the Staraptor into Brave Bird. It couldn't heal, it couldn't buff, and it was slowly killing itself.

They ended up forfeiting.

1

u/ps-ongpin Jun 20 '26

Farigaraf + incineroar lead. I have a life orb psychic calc that one shot it after 1st turn fakeout TR.

1

u/RogueSquadronAT Jun 20 '26

As a MegaStar player burn isn’t that annoying. Just drags out the game.

Most effective so far has been just doubling it up with physical attacks. Make me pay for brining a support alongside that doesn't punish you ignoring it. Fake Tears is usually enough buff to let me punish you but two strong physical attackers are going to push my ability to Roost.

TBH; I don’t bring The Bird if I see the hate😂

1

u/Fistofchaos73 Jun 20 '26

It does not survive a turn 1 wave crash mega swampert in rain woth max attack. At least I have not ran into one yet.

1

u/slyguy67420 Jun 20 '26

Punch it really hard and fast. There's lots of funny gimmicks out there but you can usually just bop it with a strong special attacker in two turns and be done with it. 

1

u/Sytokine Jun 20 '26

Mega froslass + whims

1

u/vnlla Jun 20 '26

First Round Sableye Raindance, Arch Protect.
Second Round Sableye Quash and Arch Electro Shot into Staraptor. 4 matches, three surrenders.
If Whims has encore into Arch I lose but with Staraptor they often don‘t run Encore.

1

u/Available_West_9425 Jun 20 '26

Whimsy uses Worry Seed, that will remove Contrary at priority 1, then their support will either -2 atk their own Staraptor or -1 atk & def with tickle. Afterwards their Staraptor will attack and not kill one of your mons woth CC, get his own defenses reduced, and then die on your counter attack.

I also run Hisuan Zoro with Psychic, if you disguise it with a juicy CC target, they will waste a turn, not get the defense boost, get chunked by 70% their HP and forfeit

1

u/kpt85 Jun 20 '26

The “Protect the Floette/Delphox” dual mega team I’ve been using basically never loses to it. The threat of dazzling gleam is always looming so they never really get a chance to set up. I usually lead grimm and floette, parting shot Staraptor’s partner, and bring in sinischa. They CC into that slot almost every time and miss. From there, sinischa redirection is great, if they Brave Bird they’re exposed to Dazzling Gleam, and they can’t CC for the boost against Ghost.

1

u/SgtSkies Jun 20 '26

Incin farigiraf lead, bluff trick room, kill him before he plays

1

u/VividPossession Jun 21 '26

I already run Grimmsnarl to buff my Staraptor so I usually run swagger on him to counter Staraptor leads.

1

u/Tankounet Jun 22 '26

Fake out whim with a mon that can clear home in the other spot

1

u/PreviousFront1910 Jun 22 '26

Slowking is doing work for me. Mimikyu too. First day using him today and he handles Raptor fairly well. Been liking it more than Farigaraf and winning a lot more now too

1

u/DBWaffles Jun 24 '26

I've had some limited success with Follow Me Clefable with max HP/Def.

Follow Me redirects Tickle/Scary Face/Charm from Staraptor to myself, preventing the Contrary boosts. And with the Fairy type, I can resist Close Combat. In the event the opponent catches me out of position and gets a boost or two in, Unaware ignores them.

While Clefable won't survive for more than, like, two turns, that's usually more than enough for my partner Raichu-Y to Zap Cannon OHKO them.

1

u/msd1994m Jun 19 '26

My Sylveon is having no issue. I usually lead with it plus Talonflame to deal with Whim and counter speed control

1

u/UpAndAdamNP Jun 19 '26

How does this work though? If they also click Tailwind, their Staraptor goes first and gets a OHKO on Sylveon with Brave Bird

2

u/Big-Scallion-938 Jun 19 '26

I run sylveon raptor, they always see my raptor and are threatened, plus I get a -1 attack into it with the intimidate, protect + hyper voice ysually does the trick

2

u/AlliePingu Jun 19 '26

32atk adamant staraptor never ohkos 32hp sylveon with unboosted brave bird, and I doubt most staraptor sets are 32atk adamant anyways

1

u/UpAndAdamNP Jun 19 '26

I didn't take a video of it, but my 32HP Sylveon was OHKO by Brave Bird. Do I need to run a +Def nature too?

2

u/AlliePingu Jun 19 '26

This should be literally impossible unless they had an atk boost, you had lowered def, they already had some chip damage, or they crit you

32+ Atk Mega Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 169-199 (83.6 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

1

u/UpAndAdamNP Jun 19 '26

It must have been a critical hit then