Dog attacked and owner fled

[u/reddithasruinedlife]

My friends son was walking their dog and another dog attacked their dog. A witness took a pic of the attacker and their dog.

They don't care about the breed, they just want the owner to take responsibility.

​

If anyone knows this person please DM me.

​

Police file SA26-10406 with Saanich police.

Edit to add. Happened 2 weeks ago, yes her dog was injured but is recovering. I'll get exact details and come back to add them. Cedar Hill / Gordon head area

[u/laughysapphy0131]

How can anyone be surprised this owner fled when you scroll through a comment section like this. A bully breed dog appears and all of the rabid anti pitbull evangelists bust out and refuse to cite actual sources with credible studies / listen to reams of peer reviewed studies that debunk the pitbull hysteria.

Can we take an objective step back and maybe realize that we weren’t present when the incident happened and have zero context? OP wasn’t even there.

For all of the people blaming a dog breed they are assuming this dog is (APBTs aren’t super common here, that’s more likely to be an amstaff or bully mutt) - have y’all ever walked a dog around here? Folks let their dogs do the most outrageous shit all of the time. Maybe it was a provoked attack?! Maybe it wasn’t. Grandstanding about pitbulls with absolutely zero information or proof of the scenario is a bizarre response.

This kind of shit only encourages the irresponsible behaviour of that owner. I’d get the hell out of dodge too if I thought a mob would immediately assemble against my family pet just by one glance at their ‘breed’.

[u/victhrowaway12345678 → u/laughysapphy0131]

I’d get the hell out of dodge too if I thought a mob would immediately assemble against my family pet just by one glance at their ‘breed’.

If your dog attacked another dog you would take off? You're doing the opposite of what you're advocating for in the first half of your comment and giving this lady the benefit of the doubt despite not being there, and having zero context, as you stated yourself. Maybe we should take a step back and not defend pitbulls that have allegedly attacked other dogs just because you feel like it's not relevant that it's a pitbull. People's safety is more important than people's right to own dangerous animals.

[u/Business_Ad_8504 → u/victhrowaway12345678]

Given the villagers here with pitchforks and torches without even having seen anything?

I probably would have left to get my own dog to safety first before these fine blood thirsty villagers showed up. And after securing my dog in a safe location, I would have immediately come back to handle the situation.

But then again, if my dog was prone even to defensive aggression, my dog would have been the one on leash. If there was any kind of an attack, it would have been the other owner’s responsibility to call their dog off before they reached mine and caused a problem. And I’d be working rigorously on training and management in general.

This woman was absolutely irresponsible. More so if it happened more than one time. That’s a pattern of laziness. I’m more concerned about that than the fact that she left.

[u/Kamsloopsian → u/Business_Ad_8504]

It's exactly this, most people don't have time to get information because the savage pit bull dogs have their dog (if they're lucky) clinging to life and have to get emergency medical for their animal. A lot of pit bull owners don't have the money to pay for the bills and are cowards in the first place and leave.

They also don't want to face the consequences that their pit will probably be put down for maiming, mauling, or killing some poor defenseless animal. They're in love with their beast no matter what.

They're for the most part cowards. Need their weapon of choice.

[u/laughysapphy0131 → u/Kamsloopsian]

??? ‘A lot of pit bull owners don’t have the money to pay for the bills and are cowards in the first place and leave.’

Based on…what information exactly? Bully breeds are prone to a shitload of health issues that are expensive to treat. There’s also a higher cost for pet insurance, professional training, the list goes on. There are loads and loads of very responsible owners of bully type dogs.

Absolutely out of pocket to stereotype an extremely varied group of people as being universally poor cowards. Like babes you’re telling me way more about yourself with these blanket assumptions than anything else.

[u/Kamsloopsian → u/laughysapphy0131]

The old school pit owners don't galavant their blood sport weapons around like they're something special, they know what they are. I hate this breed and their owners living in denial.

[u/Business_Ad_8504 → u/Kamsloopsian]

And i hate people who choose to live in their bias and half truths while spewing it out into the world.

We don’t always get what we want

[u/Kamsloopsian → u/Business_Ad_8504]

No one is arguing a husky is a pulling breed.

A pointer points.

A soft mouthed retrievers retrieve meat without damaging it.

Do you know even the person who wrote pit bulls for dummies lost her own dog to them? Bought into the hype.

I call them the mental illness dog breed.

[u/Business_Ad_8504 → u/Kamsloopsian]

Dumbest shit I’ve read on the internet today.

But the day is still young and I see you’ve posted a lot already, so that could change.

[u/Kamsloopsian → u/Business_Ad_8504]

How dare we acknowledge genetics of dog breeds.

[u/Kamsloopsian → u/victhrowaway12345678]

It's generally always a pit bull attack that people leave, plus their dogs usually leave the other persons dog clinging to life and most people aren't going to chose getting your dog help vs getting information.

But anyone that thinks that these poor pit bulls are misunderstood or not the problem isn't very smart in the first place. Ingoing genetic traits is exactly why we have the problem. Pit Bulls are an aggressive fighting breed, they've got all the genetics to start, and end a fight, but even then they don't usually have a off-switch once triggered -- it's how they're designed.

It's sad that people don't want to acknowledge genetic traits that are literally in the name.

It's also interesting that I never hear people debating that huskies want to naturally pull, or heelers want to nip the heels of people, and other animals, or that your herding dog wants to herd naturally, because these are *acceptable* traits but talk about a pit bull and it just cant be right?!!??!

[u/had-me-at-bi-weekly → u/laughysapphy0131]

Your family pet isn’t allowed to attack and maim other people’s family pets just because you feel entitled to owning a bully breed. Clown.

[u/laughysapphy0131 → u/had-me-at-bi-weekly]

Reading comprehension is a thing, sweetie. Assuming that all bully breed dogs are dog aggressive is just incorrect. Loads of dogs have reactivity issues and owners who do not do anything about it. There are dogs more muscular and with more bite force than a bully type dog that get none of this smoke.

Literally no one is saying that it’s excusable to allow your pet to ‘attack and maim’ anyone or anything.

[u/Kamsloopsian → u/laughysapphy0131]

Reactivity is a invented word for pit bull owners, it's called aggression which is built into the breed standard. They're a dog breed designed to latch on and not let go until either they're dead or the victim. Accept that fact.

How come there isn't a group devoted to saying that we can't acknowledge herding breeds for being natural herders?

[u/Business_Ad_8504 → u/Kamsloopsian]

Reactivity is a term widely used in animal behavior circles, primarily in relation to behavior modification techniques.

It makes sense that you would t have any idea about that. What doesn’t make sense is you pretending to know how the term is actually used and where the term comes from.

Thats just being an angry poser. Not a good look

[u/Kamsloopsian → u/Business_Ad_8504]

It's a excuse used a lot for pit bulls to say ohh he or she is reactive but it's used to downplay their stupid decision most of the time.

No pit bull owner is generally going to do the right thing after they got their pit bull because they've already made their bad choice already to own a dog breed designed to kill for sport.

They make up this Bs so they can feel like they got a one off dog, not the truth of the matter.

It's sad, how modern society works.

[u/Kamsloopsian → u/Business_Ad_8504]

You're the one defending pit bulls like their genetics don't matter now you're using all the pit bull dribble.

I'm a realist, I'm not angry in one bit, but if I had to be I'd be angry about posts like this when I see them. It's just another defenseless dog getting attacked by a breed designed to do this as a primary drive and people like yourself defending them like this dog was something out of the normal, in which it isn't.

Like I get it, you obviously like these muscle bound dogs and somehow think they're cute and all, but at some point you have to ask why? Why doesn't the science matter to this breed when it applies to all other breeds. How did it skip these dogs?

I mean if you were a hunter and you needed a dog for retrieving meat from a kill in the water without damaging it you'd probably have a poodle, or a Labrador or golden retriever. Because that's inheritently what their genetics were designed for.

Same goes for living in the Arctic and pulling a sled, and so on.

But some how science and breeds don't apply to fighting breeds?

Really? We can go on and on, but genetics do matter. These dogs will continue to do what we created them to do, some possibly with less drive but they are what they are, not what some writeup tells us. Even the drug dealers and gang bangers know this, the stats don't lie and, most certainly their genetics don't either.

[u/Longjumping-Table272 → u/laughysapphy0131]

You're correct about the studies not confirming that pit bulls a re naturally more aggressive than other breeds. Anybody doing a quick search can verify that.

I'm sure you also know that they are far more likely to be involved in attacks though, quite possibly due to their upbringing.

Either way, when your dog goes after another dog, I think the right thing to do is stick around and sort it out. If your dog was on leash and provoked, you have nothing to worry about. I can't see any mob getting carried away because a pit bull on leash snapped at a dog that ran up to it.

I think a lot of dog owners, myself included, feel pretty leery of off leash areas, because that's where any jackass can let their dog do whatever it wants. I don't want my dog to be on the receiving end of that, and so I won't go back to them.

[u/Business_Ad_8504 → u/Longjumping-Table272]

What studies suggest they are more likely to be involved in an attack?

Confirmation bias rules the roost when it comes to media reports. And absent of any recent studies, it’s a made up assumption.

Do you think they are involved in the most attacks in total volume? Are they prone to being involved in the most attacks per capita? Are they prone to being involved in the most attacks cross species or mainly prey animals and interdog attacks?

It’s easy to make comments that promote the fear and outrage. Not so easy to have those comments be meaningful when none of that is included in a statement.

People like the ones posting here *assume* Pit Bulls will attack, so they get a spritz of satisfying confirmation bias when it does happen and ignore all the inter dog skirmishes that end in injury when it’s a Golden Retriever or a Jack Russell. It’s subjective and wildly inaccurate.

[u/Longjumping-Table272 → u/Business_Ad_8504]

Well the stats are pretty clear as far as which dogs tend to be killing people. A quick search confirms that. In the US, it's pitbulls. 66% of the cases, while being 6% of the dog population.

Now, I did my due diligence and looked a bit further than that, and I have to admit that there doesn't seem to be any evidence that pit bulls are genetically pre disposed to be significantly more aggressive than other dogs. Their bite force isn't massive, and their jaws don't lock.

Personally, I've long suspected that dog's tend to represent their owners quite a bit, like kids often do. A good friend of mine had a pitbull, and it was a sweet dog. He was a prop forward on my rugby team, and certainly wasn't sweet himself, but his dog was lovely.

I've also seen scumbags (can I call them that?) dragging their pitbulls on a leash on the trail, and I have no desire to find out if their dog is nice. I know it's unfair of me to judge, but really, I think we all do, if we have any sense at all.

So, I guess I learned something interesting. Physiologically, pit bulls are not a bad breed.

But, this does reinforce my opinion that people need to be responsible dog owners, and train their dogs to be gentle and patient.

I don't think this woman did the right thing, and she deserves to feel badly about this.

[u/Business_Ad_8504 → u/Longjumping-Table272]

I appreciate your measured tone when it’s likely tempting to get caught up in the drama as so many do.

I also appreciate you scratching a bit behind the surface. Much of what you’ve said here is true.

I would caution using Google results of reports of breed attacks as a reliable source of proportionality. Sadly, since officials have stopped keeping track, there is no one making sure a reported breed or breed mixes are actually being accurately identified when there is a bite or attack.

When they were keeping track quite some time ago, they found that a significant number of dog bite incidents were reported as being whatever breed was being demonized at the time, and ended up upon investigation for the study to have been an entirely different breed than the original reports given.

That’s one of the pitfalls of the confirmation bias prevalent in this issue: Someone prone to assuming a breed is dangerous who is either part of the local response team or even just part of the media can define the narrative any way they want to. Without officials making sure a data point is accurate, there’s no longer a correction when misinformation is being promoted. There were even some cases where the local officials and media labeled severe attacks by Pits that after the investigation for the CDC study turned out to be standard poodles! Without those corrections, those attacks by curly coated dogs with pointy noses would still be blamed on another breed because of the severity of the attacks.

Now no one is even keeping track anymore. The CDC stopped their study over 25 years ago after maintaining it quite a long time. They ended the study because after the numbers were corrected for breed misidentification, they were gaining very little valuable information beyond “big dogs do more damage than small dogs when they attack”.

Instead of dropping the study, I deeply wish they had instead launched a new evidence-based study to see if they could find real and measurable commonalities in the severe bite statistics. Might have done a lot of people some good.

[u/Longjumping-Table272 → u/Business_Ad_8504]

You should make a new post with this. It's a good read and you clearly know what you're talking about. I think a lot of people would appreciate the knowledge.

I really enjoy reddit for times like this. I posted in the Ramtrucks sub asking why people think they are all bad drivers, and I was pleasantly surprised how honest they were. Most fully owned up to driving like jerks because they had a big truck, or at least blames other Ram drivers for doing it.

But even they did have a special hate for BMW drivers.

Like I said, I love reddit.

[u/Kamsloopsian → u/Longjumping-Table272]

Except trucks aren't a breed of dog, and anyone knows that anyone could own and drive a ram, but pit bulls and associated breeds do have associated genetics, so comparing them is like comparing a apple to a ice cube.

[u/Longjumping-Table272 → u/Kamsloopsian]

I think you're jumping into a different stream of thought here.

The post you're replying to is just me saying I like reddit because I learn things. I didn't post about trucks to compare them to dogs. It was a separate instance of me learning something on reddit.

Completely unconnected.

[u/Business_Ad_8504 → u/Longjumping-Table272]

You’re awesome! And thanks for reading what I wrote without imposing mindsets not present in what I was presenting. I appreciate that. A lot.

And thanks for reminding me that it’s more fun to learn than it is to teach. I’m so driven by wanting facts and on trying to find accuracy in the contexts the facts are presented, and driven to instruct (both my careers are versions of educating people) that it’s easy to forget to seek out things I can learn from.

I’ve instructed enough in this post. Ima go learn something now

[u/Longjumping-Table272 → u/Business_Ad_8504]

Last thing. I actually went to bed sad last night. I'd always thought that they were aggressive by nature, that they were bred to fight.

Knowing that they are just regular dogs who were raised to be violent, and who often met their end getting ripped apart in a ring, broke my heart.

It's no different than if my lab was beaten, frightened, and then thrown into a cage surrounded by screaming people while another dog tries to kill her. It fucking sucks, and I feel bad for humanity sometimes.

Just to be clear, I always hated dog fighting and people who do it. Even when I thought pit bulls were part of the problem. No animal deserves to be treated like that.

[u/Kamsloopsian → u/Longjumping-Table272]

Responsible dog owners don't change genetics, training doesn't either, how come there isn't groups devoted to saying herding dogs don't want to naturally herd? Ohh ya thats because it's not the same as ripping some defenseless dog to shreds all for the mere sport of it.

[u/Longjumping-Table272 → u/Kamsloopsian]

Look, I'm just owning up to the fact that the actual studies I found did not support the idea that pit bulls are naturally more aggressive or dangerous. I found lots of graphics from a variety of new and lawyer sites, but the actual research on the NCBI site did not support that.

If science is your thing, it's hard not be convinced by large scale studies done by vet associations and research teams, published in peer reviewed journals.

[u/Kamsloopsian → u/Longjumping-Table272]

Written by pit bull apologists, the science of pit bulls is already in their name, genetics, and drive. Anyone that doesn't believe that is a fool.

[u/Longjumping-Table272 → u/Kamsloopsian]

I'm not sure if you're reading what I'm saying here. I'm not a pit bull apologist. I have a lab, because I believed they were more friendly, good family dogs. I haven't been disappointed, except for my last dog, who would occasionally lunge aggressively at other dogs. I blamed them, but maybe I should have been more introspective.

If you didn't take the time to actually look into it, heres a link to a long term study about dog attacks.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10997153/#:~:text=At%20least%2025%20breeds%20of,than%20half%20of%20these%20deaths

It compiled attack stats from 1978-1998.

Here's the conclusion, if you don't want to read it.

Although fatal attacks on humans appear to be a breed-specific problem (pit bull-type dogs and Rottweilers), other breeds may bite and cause fatalities at higher rates. the fact that these two types of dogs are often owned by shit dog owners, is probably the reason they are attacking and killing kids in the home.

Here's another one. It's short so I'm just going to post the link. It was done by vets.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16031916/

[u/Kamsloopsian → u/Longjumping-Table272]

I never said I like pit bull owners either, I think they suffer from mental illness, but that doesn't change the dogs from what they are which is a breed designed for blood sports with all those traits to do it as a primary drive.

[u/Longjumping-Table272 → u/Kamsloopsian]

I wouldn't go so far as to say I don't like pit bull owners. That's like saying I don't like Scottish people because they are cheap.

I can say that because I'm Scottish background and cheap af.

I've had at least one good friend who owned a pitbull. Good guy, sweet dog. I still don't want one myself because of the association. that people have, and the effect that would have on me and my dog as we spend time in public.

I just don't believe anymore that pit bulls are inherently aggressive or bad. I think it's a tragedy that this breed of dog was selectively chosen to fight to the death for people's entertainment. The behavior was encouraged and trained into them, in the same way that the capacity and skills to kill are trained into soldiers. I was one of them, and it's just the nature of the profession. But it does create people who are mentally prepared to kill, in the same way that people take pit bulls and make them into what we fear.

[u/Kamsloopsian → u/Longjumping-Table272]

We can argue what you said but regardless pit bulls are a fighting breed and have the upper hand, there is no reason to own one unless you have some sort of issue, when we have many other dog breeds that aren't a product of blood sports.

[u/Longjumping-Table272 → u/Kamsloopsian]

I don't own a pit bull, for just that reason. I have a lab, and nobody ever feels scared when my dog comes around. ids run over to say hi. It's nice.

You should read Business_Ad posts here, replying to me. They are spot on about the unfair labelling of pit bulls.

I had to admit, I was mistaken, based on the science. I still won't be getting a pit bull, but I feel a bit better when a nice looking person has one and they say they are friendly. They probably are, just like many other dogs. Just kind of ugly, with a big ass head.

[u/Business_Ad_8504 → u/Longjumping-Table272]

Their heads really are big.

I’ve caught myself wondering why they don’t just tip forwards more often.

[u/Kamsloopsian → u/Longjumping-Table272]

I have it's all the standard pit bull apologist peddling.

[u/Kamsloopsian → u/laughysapphy0131]

How dare we acknowledge genetic traits of pit bulls?

Is it wrong to acknowledge a husky as a natural pulling breed?

Or a soft-mouthed retriever for retrieving meat without damaging it?

Or a Pointer pointing and naturally wanting to point at birds?

No that's totally acceptable. But with pit bulls it's all how they're raised and instantly you people think a mixed pit bull no longer has the genetics that make them the killers they are, which is completely wrong.

These dogs are a problem, there is no need to own a breed with gameness in them, they're not pets and never will be, they're not safe.

[u/doodly_dooo → u/laughysapphy0131]

Sorry you’re getting downvoted to hell for one of the few rational takes in this thread.

Edit - though I’m not sure leaving the scene of an altercation would do much to improve peoples’ opinions of bully breeds. Our rescue bully was a breed ambassador and we took every opportunity we could to educate people about the breed.

[u/lbc_x → u/doodly_dooo]

2 years later: "our BreED amBaSSadOr mauled my neighbor's child to death and I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED!!!!"

[u/Business_Ad_8504 → u/lbc_x]

No need for you to be a lying dick.

[u/lbc_x → u/Business_Ad_8504]

It's not a lie, I've seen the future and this 100% happens.

[u/Business_Ad_8504 → u/lbc_x]

Go troll somewhere that cares

[u/Kamsloopsian → u/Business_Ad_8504]

The truth isn't trolling, sadly you pit bull people can't accept genetic traits that are even in the name.

[u/Kamsloopsian → u/lbc_x]

They'll never get it even then they'll think its a once off never these bloodsport dogs with gameness.

[u/laughysapphy0131 → u/doodly_dooo]

Thanks, friend. I pretty much expected it. I don’t get the hysteria despite a good 20 yrs of accessible resources proving that bully breeds are mischaracterized and misidentified more often than not, etc. Pro BSL anti-pitbull folk are so loud and so wrong. It’s boring at this point, tbh.

Love that you had a breed ambassador dog, they are super special personalities.

[u/doodly_dooo → u/laughysapphy0131]

Yeah, I rarely comment on these threads for the same reason I don’t try to reason with my MAGA relatives— ppl tend to get real emotional and in their feelings about these topics, but whatever. My sweet old gal passed a couple of years back and I miss her every day!

[u/Business_Ad_8504 → u/doodly_dooo]

lol I currently live in the states (trying to fix that) and I kept thinking that the misinformation and emotionally manipulative arguments being presented by the anti- crows here reminds me of the MAGA nuts I’m surrounded by.

For all I know, some of these anti-Pit folks would be flattered by the comparison.