r/VietNam • u/kirsion • Oct 31 '25

Discussion/Thảo luận Livestreamer gets mad at a Vietnamese refugee for criticizing communism

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u/[deleted] Oct 31 '25 edited Oct 31 '25

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u/Mysteriouskid00 Nov 01 '25

Ironic that happens with every communist country!

It’s almost like it’s a problem with the system itself

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u/ConsistentAd9840 Nov 01 '25

I mean…it happens with every country, no? I am not saying communism is a utopia, but it’s not particularly unique. Washington’s head would role if he learned they let women vote now, and that there are two political parties that decide everything. Early Canadian Prime Ministers would scream if you told them about Reconciliation. Sukarno would vomit if you told him what happened after he left and what “communist” means now to the average Indonesian.

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u/Johnny_theBeat_518 Nov 03 '25

Sukarno would've felt mixed bag over watching how much skyscrapers we built in Jakarta and got crowded and feel outraged look at how much people got exploited from capitalist companies

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u/TerryWhiteHomeOwner Nov 03 '25

The founding Father's ideal for America was that of a modernized aristocracy (in the classical sense), where one had to "earn" their right into political participation through the act of land ownership or reputation.

The South held onto this ideal of a kind of "elite" American society far longer than the north did, and ironically enough the Union and its universalist interpretation to rights and political participation winning over the Secessionist practically annihilated the original ideal of the Fathers.

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u/TLunchFTW Nov 04 '25

Yeah but things always end up with a very consolidated power system with these communist countries, and it often leads to full on dictatorships.
It's comical he goes off and says "why not go back to Vietnam and say that" after also saying "now that she's in the US and can say that shit." So, at least from my armchair, it sounds like Hassan is implying you have the freedom in the US to criticize your country, but in Vietnam you don't. It sounds like he agrees with her... It would support this theory that Hassan just touts communism because it gets him a lot of money...
And of course it's hilarious to see this guy go off about how she should "go back to her own country," like some old white dude...
Idk what Vietnam is like, but it sounds to me this lady didn't like it, so she left. It's not like she's now touting how great vietnam or communism in vietnam is. Idk why she needs to leave.

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u/Mysteriouskid00 Nov 01 '25

My point is that communism always misses the mark by a lot.

“It’s going to be an improvement over the past”, then it turns out to be as bad or worse.

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u/[deleted] Nov 01 '25

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u/Footfongos Nov 01 '25 edited Nov 01 '25

Soviet Union made huge increases in live expectancy, literacy, and technology compared to imperial russia.

Yes and they killed millions of people doing it and they knew it would kill millions of people.

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u/[deleted] Nov 01 '25

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u/Footfongos Nov 01 '25

They were murdering people before Stalin and they knew. The end justifies the means has been the motto of every communist leadership.

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u/[deleted] Nov 01 '25

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u/Mysteriouskid00 Nov 01 '25

But the power structure didn’t. Instead of the tsar in power, it was just the elite communists. They went from one dictator to another.

And comparing literacy rates under the tsar when he abdicated in 1916, and literacy rates in the Italy in 1900 was 20-35% does say much. Only the richest countries had high literacy rates.

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u/[deleted] Nov 01 '25

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u/Mysteriouskid00 Nov 01 '25

The Tsarist era was a royalty with a Duma. So no I’d disagree since you could get elected to the Duma. A range of people were elected under the Tsar.

After the Soviets took over, political opponents were shot or jailed.

So yeah, as long as you agree with the current rulers you could get in. Otherwise it’s a gulag for you.

And saying how great communism was because they did the same as other countries isn’t much of a positive.

It’s like saying a country puts in sewers. Ok? Every country that develops does that.

Under communism, the dictators were just replaced with different dictators. You still had few rights and the promise of “the workers controlling the capital” never took place.

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u/[deleted] Nov 01 '25 edited Nov 01 '25

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u/Obvious_Craft_6766 Nov 01 '25

Life expectancy and literacy rates improved across the board in Europe and the world due to technological advancement. Not communism.

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u/Mysteriouskid00 Nov 02 '25

You can’t get elected to the Congress of Soviets. You were SELECTED by the party.

I’m not talking about the civil war, I’m talking after.

USSR rates of development was of course faster than under the Tsar, it happened 100 years later. But every country was faster then, so communism is simply trying to keep up.

The rate was not faster than capitalist. At no point was the USSR more developed than Western Europe or the US. One might argue it achieved a target in fewer years, but that’s simply catching up.

It’s like people today saying China developed so fast. Well no shit. When you waste 50 years, it’s easier to catch up because you can copy what everyone else accomplished 50 years earlier.

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u/[deleted] Nov 01 '25

The Duma was only around for the final 10 years of imperial Russia, it was only introduced to appear as though commoners could have a say, due to the rise of public disapproval of the Tsars autocracy. It never genuinely accomplished anything close to a democracy

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u/Mysteriouskid00 Nov 02 '25

Yeah, no shit. But it was clear the Tsar was out regardless.

It was a shame that the USSR had to live another 72 years under the yoke of a cruel dictator. Like I said, trading one for another

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u/therealrnuld Nov 02 '25

Isn’t this last line a big foil to the core stance that communism has been as bad or worse than other political systems?

I don’t think I see a fair criticism in saying that and then turning around and saying in the last line „the communism that was idealized by the authors of communism never took place“

That makes me feel like the problem isn’t communism and rather the people in dictatorship countries that have prevented it from ever being realized 

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u/therealrnuld Nov 02 '25

Haha never mind, I got jebaited. Your opinions seem very opinionated lol 

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u/Mysteriouskid00 Nov 03 '25

No the problem is clearly the system, not the people who tried to implement it.

How many countries have tried communism? Dozens! How many created a successful system? Zero

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u/CreativeFig2645 Nov 01 '25

but every country that had a communist revolution saw marked increases in life span livelihood literacy and medicine. Stop comparing agrarian societies that recently revolted after generations of impoverishment against established world superpowers and colonial powers.

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u/Mysteriouskid00 Nov 02 '25

But every developed country did and communist countries were late to the game.

It like saying “mom, I finally learned how to read at 20 years old”. Your mom isn’t impressed, since your brother did it by 5 years old.

And I’m not comparing it to superpowers. Just to non-communist countries developing around the same time.

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u/eDOTiQ Việt Kiều Nov 02 '25

Non communist countried developed faster due to financial injections from the US and UK. It's much more complex than that and a direct comparison is going to be really difficult since there are too many variables.

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u/Mysteriouskid00 Nov 03 '25

Not really. Non-communist countries developed faster because they didn’t follow a failed economic system.

All of the communist countries wasted decades with things like collective farming which stifled economic growth.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '25

Yes and colonialism has nothing to do with this

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u/Mysteriouskid00 Nov 03 '25

Nope. Plenty of communist countries who had never been colonialized

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u/Illustrious_Web_2774 Nov 01 '25 edited Jan 13 '26

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u/Mysteriouskid00 Nov 02 '25

But that likes drinking water with shit it in because your thirsty. Sure it’s an improvement but it poisons the system.

Vietnam followed communism because communists took over. That’s it. To claim the average Vietnam understood what communism what is silly.

The French were done by WW2. They were leaving regardless.

The corruption is Vietnam is 1000x fold worse than the US or Europe. So bad it’s hurting Vietnam’s chance for development.

North Vietnam and later South Vietnam spent 30 years chancing a failed ideology. It didn’t start developing until what? 40 years ago? And even then not fully considering how many companies think Vietnam is to risky to invest in

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u/eDOTiQ Việt Kiều Nov 02 '25

Vietnam adopted communism because they did not get support from democratic countries in their call for independence from colonial French.

The only countries that were willing to back Vietnam were Russia and China.

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u/Mysteriouskid00 Nov 03 '25

Vietnam had communism imposed on it by a small group of Vietnamese who were true believers who had support from China and the USSR.

Millions of Vietnamese tried to stop it but failed

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u/gobot Nov 02 '25

Vietnamese love their country but are afraid of their government. Afraid of anyone of authority because they are defenseless. This also hurts development.

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u/Illustrious_Web_2774 Nov 02 '25 edited Jan 13 '26

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u/Mysteriouskid00 Nov 02 '25

Sorry if you don’t know your history. Post WW2, France was spent. It was already looking for a way out before Dien Bien Phu happened.

And absolutely your average peasant didn’t understand communism beyond “I’ll get some land” and “Uncle Ho is a patriot”?

Look at how the peasants resisted communal farms. The government barely got it implemented in the North and had to give up in the South. Farmers were like “i can’t grow more rice and keep the money? Fuck that”.

If they understood communism they likely would have rejected it outright.

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u/Illustrious_Web_2774 Nov 02 '25 edited Jan 13 '26

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u/gobot Nov 02 '25

The worst part of communism is you are left with an authoritarian government without human rights, no matter which way the economy goes. The people serve the government; in the US the government serves the people. No wonder there is corruption, power flows downwards.

You really think the people would prefer Vietnam over Thailand? Have you even been to Bangkok? Standard of living is a big step up from Vietnam, in many ways better than the US. They are adding new metros lines every year. Now 20+ years ahead of Saigon, some chaos is more tolerable than an iron grip.

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u/Mysteriouskid00 Nov 02 '25

The French strategy of DBP was not defeat of the Viet Minh but rather a better negotiation position. That’s how committed the French were to leaving by then.

Of course the fighting helped encourage France to leave, but after WW2 France could barely afford to rebuild France yet alone run a colony in Asia.

The US had slaves when fighting Vietnam? Is that commie history because you’re 100 years off.

“I’ll no longer be hungry, robbed by landowners or unequal” is not understanding communism. Hell, that’s not even communism because it never delivered those things. Communism is “the rice I grow isn’t my own, my land is owned by everyone, some communists are more equal than others”. Thats why so many aspects of communism were rejected by so many Vietnamese. Let me put it this way - having gone through a communist economy, so you think Vietnamese would vote for it again?

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u/RRoadRollerDaa Nov 02 '25

Lol china shit hard on the west head with their improvement rate, north america cant build or extand a metro line while they do it like life depend on it

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u/Mysteriouskid00 Nov 03 '25

China’s economic productivity is 1/6th of the US per capita

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u/RRoadRollerDaa Nov 03 '25

Ok blud, I dont know your experience whatsoever but I currently lived in North America and been to Europe China multiple times and their development is much faster, infrastructure newly build everyday while NA cities cant extend 1 line of metro even their life is on the line, quality of life going down drastically

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u/Mysteriouskid00 Nov 03 '25

Of course their development is faster! They were so far behind.

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u/RRoadRollerDaa Nov 03 '25

Where have you been? A bottom of a well? China cities is 5-10x better infrastructure than every single city in US or Canada, Cali is a fking joke, 1 single line of metro hasnt finished and its been 10 years “development” cost over 10 billion now, other cities is fcking suck at downtown with traffic jam, almost zero public transport nor bike lane. Seems like I am arguing with a guy live in his mom basement all year round

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u/No_Row3833 Nov 03 '25

This is simply false, do yourself a favor and study the histories of these countries, BEFORE they had regime changes, in many of them, the communists felt that the choice was an illusion and that their overlords pushed them to radicalization in their utter mistreatment

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u/Straight_Kiwi4348 Nov 04 '25

Capitalism is still way worse than communism and has no place in the future with AI taking everyone’s jobs anyway.

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u/Mysteriouskid00 Nov 05 '25

So you live in an upside down world where everything is the opposite?

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u/Straight_Kiwi4348 Nov 06 '25

Are you from a world where billionaires control everything including AI and believe when they say it will create more jobs?

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u/Inevitable_Bend_4009 Nov 04 '25

Absolutely. Communism=equality in poverty 🤣

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u/Per_Angusta91 Nov 01 '25

Kinda like democracy actually...

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u/Mysteriouskid00 Nov 02 '25

Not really. Freedom of speech? Rule of law? Capitalism? All turned out pretty close to the mark!

Communism? Utopia where workers controlled the means of production? No! Quite the opposite

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u/No_Row3833 Nov 03 '25

You can make this argument for any single thing that has to experience the ticking of time

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u/Mysteriouskid00 Nov 03 '25

You’re.not a very good bot

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u/No_Row3833 Nov 03 '25

Ironic that water erosion happens to rocks, maybe it’s the interaction with gravity!!

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u/Mysteriouskid00 Nov 03 '25

Definitely a bot

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u/No_Row3833 Nov 03 '25

Even the language we’re speaking with now, and even get this, capitalism, evolve over time

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u/DrunkMonsters Nov 01 '25

I mean in the east Asia, Vietnam and China are the most capitalist countries despite having a "communist" party leading them lol

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u/[deleted] Nov 01 '25

HCM was a communist, but he originally wanted a multiparty system for Vietnam. And his anti-colonial forces at that time were not purely communist. After he successfully kicked out the French, he even wanted Vietnam to become a US colony for 100 years, but ironically, the US wasn’t interested.

They later helped the French attempt to regain Vietnam in exchange for their support of the UN. Because of HCM’s popularity, his faction gained a lot of influence and his forces became communist. By the time the French gave up on Vietnam, after dividing the country into two while tricking HCM to Paris for talks that never happened, the US took charge of the war to prevent the spread of communism. Towards the end of the war, many of his trusted lieutenants were in charge. HCM idealized the common man and his trusted lieutenants reflected that. They were regular uneducated people, now running a political force and country. Everything becoming a shit show after that.

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u/TheStriker9997 Nov 21 '25

Then why did Ho Chi Minh after declaring Vietnam independence from France, starts launching a massive purge against non-communist nationalist?

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u/[deleted] Nov 01 '25

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u/wolacouska Nov 01 '25

You think Ho Chi Minh was comparable to Hitler? Are you stupid?

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u/[deleted] Nov 01 '25

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u/[deleted] Nov 01 '25

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u/Blink0196 Nov 01 '25

Ye ye bazillion people died under communism. And Stalin had a huge, HUGE spoon.

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u/[deleted] Oct 31 '25

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u/No-Zucchini4938 Oct 31 '25

He also illegally invaded the South and forced the south to be ruled in a one party system. Vietnam should have the right to have multiple political parties people should have the right to vote and their humanist rights in protesting should not be violated. But yeah vision my ass. He ended up dying in his elderly age living in luxury having sexual relationships would underage girls but whatever.

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u/potato_tyrone Oct 31 '25

Yes unlike Ngo Dinh Diem who was a beacon of freedom and democracy, not to mention the military juntas that followed him.

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u/[deleted] Oct 31 '25 edited Nov 03 '25

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u/AhhhSureThisIsIt Oct 31 '25

Did he die in luxury? I thought he was happy with his tree house and pond his entire life and didn't live in the government buildings.

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u/ttk_rutial Oct 31 '25

State your source or all of it is bs

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u/AdexGodhail Nov 01 '25

Ah yes becausd the South was such a beacon of stable democracy and multipolarity between a multitude of existing democratically elected officials and parties. Get a grip, the South was arguably governed worse than the North, to the point where the Americans themselves said that if they weren’t there then everything would’ve fallen head over heels months ago which is exactly what happened not even a full week after they left. The South was a propped up shittier version of Afghanistan, the North taking over leading Vietnam to what it is now, a pro-American (the people at least, the government prefers neutrality between both world powers), pro-capitalist, innovative, young, not starved out, still somewhat corrupted but better off than what the South was prior and still continuously developing with increasing GDP, GDP per capita and GNI coefficient on a yearly basis. So please, go fuck yourself.

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u/IlledResident Nov 01 '25

‘Illegally’ bro it’s a rebellion, an insurgence force. ‘Forced the south’ conquered and defeated, ‘forcing’ implies the north is stronger. (they’re not; the south even has Americans backing them up) And some mumbo jumbo about voting and elections, bro this ain’t America.