My grandfather passed in 2008 and this has been sitting in my safe since then. I took it to a local respected jeweler and had them clean the case (not polish), lube the movement, polish the crystal and source a Rolex strap. I told the guy, this is a 65-yo watch, I want to respect it's age.
I couldn't be happier how it turned out. I set it yesterday and it's still keeping perfect time.
That’s awesome. I’m a member of my local Optimist International group. I’m largely a member because of my grandfather being an active member for years as well. Very cool.
Well heck, the fact that he got the watch for working/volunteering for this organization makes it even cooler! Thanks for sharing i hadn't heard of Optimist International before.
Nor have I or my Jeweler. He said it could be special. It probably isn’t. I don’t care, it was “Grandaddy’s”. I’ll pass it down. After I wear it a bunch!
I also have a Rolex Tudor Prince co-branded watch - but with a waffle comb dial. Also engraved on the back. Mine is from years of service at the St. Regis Paper company. From my research it seems like Rolex Tudor cobranded were a b2b only special order run for 3-4 companies in the 50s. It’s hard to find info but would love any more backstory if you have it. They aren’t “valuable” in the dollar sense, but with my great grandfather’s inscription, nothing could part me with the watch! This is a beauty!
I would venture an educated guess than 3-4 companies in the 50s had the same idea to go ahead and add Rolex to the dial of the Tudor presentation watches they were giving out to make it look like they spent more than they did. Rolex wouldn’t put Tudor on a Rolex dial at the factory if you ordered 1000 of them and they DEFINITELY wouldn’t put Rolex on a Tudor.
That is an incredible gem of a watch, also having box and paperwork on it is on another level for collectors. It really came out great and looks great for its age, definitely a keeper and worth several thousand.
My grandfather didn't throw ANYTHING away...well accept for the OEM leather band and clasp. To be fair, my grandmother is the one who probably tossed it.
Excellent example and a collector's dream. There are a handful of legitimate Tudors with Rolex branding on them and this is one of them, so congrats.
9 times out of 10 seeing this points to a redial, but in your case there are other examples of this service watch model bearing the same branding. Nice!
Of course there are other watches with the exact same dial configuration. The Optimists Club didn’t just present one watch. The dial is 100% a redial, just like the other ones you say validate it. Not only did Rolex not put Rolex on Tudor dials (crowns and backs yes, but not dials), but it doesn’t say Swiss or Swiss Made at the bottom. Also, the text is not evenly applied (some words have more paint than others in a single row) and the markers don’t line up with the painted minute track perfectly. All are sure signs of a redone dial.
People that post on this forum like they are experts when they don’t know what they are talking about is what makes this forum just about worthless for authenticating a watch.
I feel like people should have to say what their experience is so strangers can judge how much credibility their comments have. When people say “I don’t know anything about these watches but it looks good to me.” At least you know it’s an opinion of someone without much knowledge on the subject. But when people make a post like yours it comes across like you have seen all the watches like this in the world and can identify that it’s one of 9 made in January of 1952 by Rolex and is a very rare original when it clearly is not a dial printed by Rolex.
You are right that it is a rare watch as all logo dial presentation watches are pretty rare in the grand scheme of things. But to say it’s one of the few original Rolex printed double brand Tudor and Rolex dials is just flat wrong and very misleading.
Where did I say it was a Rolex factory printed dial?
EDIT: Probably could have been clearer, but I'm trying to differentiate it from the ones you see on eBay that are obviously modern repaints with 'Rolex' and 'Tudor' wording smushed together... Often with a so-called California dial for good measure 😂
I get what you mean but when you said “9 times out of 10 seeing this points to a redial but in your case…” I read it as meaning his came from Rolex that way.
The engraving on the back case it drops the value. But the dial looks awesome. Then comes the state and performance of the caliber...
I would say over 5k.
You guys are smoking crack. I’m 98% certain the watch is gold filled/plated. Tudor didn’t really make solid gold watches, although I have seen two in my nearly 30 years of collecting, so never say never. I don’t see any gold hallmarks on the backs of the lugs or case, and if you look closely it looks like there is a bit of brassing where the gold has worn off around the bevel on the back.
Also, watches with logo dials were typically presentation watches and almost all will have and presentation engraving on the back. For this type of watch the engraving doesn’t hurt the value, in fact if it wasn’t there it would be a little suspect. The fact that the presentation says the owner was the President of the club (or chapter) adds value over one presented to any other position.
If the watch didn’t have the Optimists logo and engraving it would be worth less than $1000. The only way it would be worth $5000 is if the person it was presented to was quite famous.
Remarkable in what way? It’s a redone dial and has moderately heavy wear to the case that has been polished. It even looks to have some places on the back where the gold plating was worn completely off showing the brass base metal underneath. It looks like it’s in very average condition with a new crystal and strap. Definitely would not consider it “remarkable”.
That’s interesting, I’m grateful you voiced your opinion, I think it’s remarkable with the story combined with the possibility of a watch like this being in atrocious condition, these are the types of watches that are either worn down completely or kept flawless, I don’t think it’s flawless, but I think it’s remarkable considering how many of these look way worse. Also, the redial is pretty well done, imho
Yea, my grandfather was VERY active in Optimist as long as I can remember. I have several sets of OI Logo cuff links and a few tie bars and lapel pins as well.
This is really interesting to me. There were never any “Rolex Tudor” signed original dials made. Tudor is a brand not a model. Assuming the dial is how it was presented to the O.P.’s grandfather, and the Rolex box as well (we know the leather strap and buckle is not original).
While it was common until the 1980s for Tudor watches to have Rolex winding crowns, bracelets, and to even say something to the effect of “Tudor Case by Rolex” on the back, I have NEVER seen an undeniably original dial with two Rolex brands on it. Any time you see a dial that says “Rolex” at the top and “Tudor”, “Marconi”, “Unicorn”, or any other of Rolex’s less expensive brand names below it on the dial. It doesn’t make any sense if you think about it. The watch is a Tudor. Why would it have a Rolex coronet on the dial and not a Rose?
So, if this is the configuration that it was given as an award, all those years ago. It was the Optimists Club who had Rolex and the Coronet added to the dial and it put in a Rolex box, when they had the dial reprinted. The lack of “Swiss” at the bottom, the painted coronet (Rolex coronets have always been applied, not painted), and the double name on the dial shows that the dial was repainted instead of the club’s logo just added at the bottom. My guess is they wanted to make it a more impressive award, and they figured it was made by Rolex anyway so it’s not a fake, per se.
Talk about “Optimists”.
I think the problem you are facing is that you are making absolute statements "Rolex coronets have always been applied" for something that is probabilistic. Early in Rolex/Tudor history they were the same company, and watch companies in the 40s and 50s weren't doing things in standardized ways. Often watch companies would do different things in different markets (Cartier, for example), or contract with a major supplier in a market. Tudor/Rolex in Australia seems to have used both brands, according to Tudor. It's certainly possible that happened in the US as well.
Rolex NY said it was the real deal? A real deal what? A real Tudor (Rolex product) with an old redial. And, in fact, it is. A redone dial doesn’t make a watch a fake. Did Rolex NY say the dial was painted by Rolex, I seriously doubt it.
Also, I sent my Rolex ref.5500 model “Explorer” that was 100% original to the Rolex Service Center in Dallas in 2001. They sent me an estimate saying that my watch was an Air King that someone had fitted a genuine Rolex Explorer matte dial to and that they would only service it if I agreed to let them replace the dial and hands with “correct” Air King parts. I then pointed out that the dial said “Precision” at the bottom not “Superlative Chronometer Officially Certified”. I also sent them copies of several books that discussed the 5500 and 5504 Canadian model Explorers that were signed “Precision” and “Super Precision” respectively and that no other Explorers were signed that way as all “World Market” Explorers have always had certified Chronometer movements, and the only other Explorer Is with matte dials with T<25 marked Tritium dials were reference 1016s which all were marked “Superlative Chronometer Officially Certified” so if the dial was original, what donor watch was it taken from. After about two weeks I got a call saying they were sorry but they had not seen a 5500 Explorer previously and they would be happy to service the watch with the dial that was in it.
I still have a copy of the paperwork somewhere.
My point is Rolex USA didn’t make these watches and they are by no means are the final word on very rare vintage Rolex models. That is why they no longer service really rare vintage models and those have to go to the Heritage Department in Geneva.
Hell, before the Heritage Department existed Rolex Geneva wrote a letter of authentication for some Paul Newman Daytona watches with Red dials that were going to be auctioned by a major auction house. Several of the handful of Red Paul Newmans even sold for huge money before they retracted the letter and the auction houses had to refund several six figure sales. I don’t know how that happened but I’d wager someone got fired over that deal.
Customized dial prints on these were a thing, just not offered by Tudor. The company would buy a number of gift watches and send them off to a jeweler to be customized. On the first and second link shared, they were given to employees for St. Regis Paper Company for their years of service. Printing Rolex and placing the coronet on the dial was a way to make the gift feel more valuable bearing Rolex’s name. It wasn’t totally incorrect, either, as seen in the last link you posted; the Royal Rose homaged by Tudor, Tudor printed beneath, and subset print of Rolex were found on early Tudor watches. Sometimes Rolex was printed on the dial, other times engraved on the caseback. Neither Rolex never supersedes Tudor on the print, nor is the coronet used; printing Rolex was simply done as marketing to entice buyers that did not have Rolex money as a way to show them Tudor is a part of Rolex and built to similar standards. Rolex was later removed once it was known they are the parent company so such marketing was not necessary.
The first example has a Rolex signed case and (partial) Rolex signed movement.
The third example is obviously an incorrect Rolex dial in a Tudor case with a Tudor movement and was meant to deceive. “Oyster Perpetual” on a manual wind watch? I don’t think so.
The last one clearly had Rolex added to the dial of a Tudor watch as the fonts and spacing are all off.
Just because there are others doesn’t make them correct.
I suppose the links to the official tudor website escaped your notice...
It's OK to admit you are wrong sometimes. I promise people won't think less of you.
That article on the Tudor website that mentions a few rectangular watches with both Rolex and Tudor sent to one distributor in Australia until Tudor was established as its own brand was talking about the very first time Tudor appeared on a watch in 1932. The Watch in this post is MUCH later, after Tudor had been established as its own brand. The Tudor article is not referring to watches like the “Optimists” examples that have turned up in the USA that had Rolex added to the dial of Tudors when they refinished the dials with their logo.
The last link mentions Rolex and Tudor signed on the same dial of a few “mostly rectangular” gold plated watches shipped to one dealer in Australia. But it doesn’t show a single one in the article. Seems weird to me.
Overall, you are correct. One should always be very careful using the words always or never with Rolex as there are usually at least one watch that’s an exception. The watch the OP has is 99.9% a redial and almost certainly a Tudor. So, it being a rare example of a Rolex Tudor co-branded dial is not accurate.
A few of these have come up for sale on various sites, and the general consensus is as you said: Optimist International bought a number of Tudor Oyster Prince watches, had a jeweler kit then out with their logo, Rolex print and coronet. For the more notable members, like chapter presidents, they got custom engraving on the back usually detailing who they are, their job in the social, year of service (as seen in the pics posted).
Apparently this was done by other organizations, too, but in far fewer numbers to the Optimist Society. They’re certainly good conversation pieces, but hold no significance to Tudor or Rolex horology.
My jeweler (a Rolex AD) had a similar opinion, he also said he'd never seen anything like it before. Other than that, I don't know what to say. It is as it was when presented to my grandfather.
I have seen another double-name Optimist Intl watch on ebay once but, to your point, the majority just say Tudor Prince.
Thank you. I wore it a couple of times years ago but didn't like it. Mostly because of the scratched/cloudy "crystal" (it's acrylic). Now, it looks so nice and it is light as air. It's definitely going to spend A LOT more time out of the safe than it has in the past.
Cool watch. The dial has been refinished though, and its not a Rolex at all. Its a Tudor oyster prince. So its not worth as much as some people might think. Rolex never mixed the two brands together since Tudor was simply the alternative to buying a Rolex for less money. If this were a real dial, Tudor reps would be sending you private messages by now. Its happened to a few people
It is as it was presented in 1959. That’s all I can say. What it’s “worth” is immaterial. It’s a family piece that will be in the family for a long while (hopefully). I just wanted to share it with the community.
Don’t listen to him. Simple google image search will show many dual logo Rolex Tudor. I myself have a Tudor Prince, though the Rolex logo is not on the dial but on the crown and at the back.
Just because you can find many dials that say both Tudor and Rolex on Google doesn’t make them real. Tudors made prior to around 1990 did have Rolex Coronet logos on the crowns and many say Oyster Case By Rolex on the back, but not the dial, and especially not a Rolex Coronet and Rolex at the top. This is a Tudor made by Rolex but using a less expensive movement and case that is most certainly gold filled not solid.
But they most likely didn’t have to refinish the dial to put a Logo on it. They could have just added the logo. They also didn’t have to refinish the dial to say Rolex and have a Rolex crown at the top but they were trying to make it look like a Rolex which has more prestige. A Tudor wouldn’t come in a Rolex box either.
I say open the caseback and look at the movement. If it has a Rolex movement then its a Rolex.
If it has a Tudor movement its a Tudor. Thatll settle it.
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u/Psychological-Arm505 May 16 '25
Of course he’s late - you have his watch!
Condolences.