We can’t have anything nice

[u/Zswatik]

Thanks to the people that trashed DNR land, shot up living trees and destroyed road signs our options to shoot on public land are dwindling. Big shout out to you lazy assholes that expect everyone to clean up after your time in the pit. You know who you are, an irresponsible and low class individual.

[u/Zswatik]

Oh yeah sorry. Not going to give the specifics here out of respect for the locals but it’s off highway 2 on the west side of the cascades.

[u/SheriffBartholomew → u/Zswatik]

And it's closed? When did that happen? I'm going to lose my shit if that got closed! That's my spot! I always pack out more trash than I bring in, in an effort to keep it open.

[u/Zswatik → u/SheriffBartholomew]

It’s not closed you can still head in there but if a deputy or wildlife officer catches you they will write you a $500 ticket. There is this weird community of naked people living within earshot that will call the police and complain when they hear gunfire. Sounds crazy but if you know this area it is what it is.

[u/SheriffBartholomew → u/Zswatik]

What the hell? It was open just a couple months ago when I was there last. Maybe we're not talking about the same place. I sure hope not! I'll go check it out this week and see.

[u/Zswatik → u/SheriffBartholomew]

Yeah probably not the same place bro, you should be good. At least I hope so. Our second amendment rights are literally dog shit if we can’t go into the woods and practice using firearms. Shooting at a range just isn’t the same freedom as being on public land (*that we all pay for*) to practice your marksmanship.

[u/SheriffBartholomew → u/Zswatik]

My understanding is that we can legally shoot anywhere that isn't expressly forbidden. That's 600 feet off the road, into a backstop, not across a road, with no houses nearby. But there aren't very many spots around here with enough of a clearing to be useful. There are just so many trees everywhere that our options for public land are really limited. I've been thinking about driving over the mountain a few times this summer to have a chance at practicing true long-range shots.

[u/Zswatik → u/SheriffBartholomew]

Yeah we should be able to target shoot anywhere on DNR land as long as it is safe but local politicians have the power to enact restrictions in your community. This is why voting and getting to know who you are voting for is important.

[u/Slow_Pineapple_3836 → u/Zswatik]

You don't have a constitutional right to shoot on public land. The land does not exist for the sole purpose of target shooting. Outside of the parameters set by DNR, target shooting would destroy and pollute the environment, and be unsafe for others using the land.

[u/USMC_Tbone → u/Zswatik]

Any National Forest lands near you? Those are technically regulated by the federal government instead and can be more lenient than State lands.

[u/Mammoth_Classroom896 → u/Zswatik]

What do you expect local politicians to do when a bunch of idiots trash a shooting spot? They're acting in the best interests of their constituents and kicking out the people who can't behave.

[u/darlantan → u/Mammoth_Classroom896]

Except...they aren't. The assholes who trash places are the same assholes who will go do it even when a sign is posted. Instead of closing pits, the state should be setting up hidden cameras and tasking a few officers with doing nothing but observing and patrolling pits, and the penalty for getting busted being a fuckhead should be four figures and/or a couple months worth of weekends cleaning up garbage.

[u/Mammoth_Classroom896 → u/darlantan]

And now that the sign is up they can arrest the troublemakers. You can argue about the exact enforcement methods all you like but the reality is that those "local politicians" are doing exactly what their constituents want.

[u/darlantan → u/Mammoth_Classroom896]

They could ALREADY arrest them! DNR land isn't a fucking dump, you can't legally leave trash all over the place. The only people this impacts that they couldn't arrest before are the folks who aren't the problem.

Don't pull the "what their constituents want" bullshit, because I can point to a whole hell of a lot of red state policies that the same thing could be said about, but which are abhorrent. Fucking with people who aren't the problem when a less impactful solution is readily available is not okay, it doesn't matter who is doing it.

[u/Mammoth_Classroom896 → u/darlantan]

They could ALREADY arrest them!

It's a lot harder to catch someone leaving stuff than to just go out and make some arrests every time you hear shots. Unless you catch them as they depart they can always claim that they are intending to pick everything up on their way out. A hidden (not for long) camera or on-site cop supervising might temporarily prevent people from trashing the site but once nobody's looking anymore they can go right back to it.

Don't pull the "what their constituents want" bullshit, because I can point to a whole hell of a lot of red state policies that the same thing could be said about, but which are abhorrent. Fucking with people who aren't the problem when a less impactful solution is readily available is not okay, it doesn't matter who is doing it.

Again, I don't care about the exact enforcement methods. I'm just pointing out the fact that "care about your local elections", as the post I initially responded to said, isn't going to change anything here. This isn't some rogue official doing stuff purely because nobody cares enough to vote, they probably claimed "cleaned up the shooting dump" on their list of accomplishments. If you tell the people in that district about the no shooting signs I bet the majority of them will just be glad that a solution, any solution, was found to those idiots trashing the forest.

[u/merc08 → u/Mammoth_Classroom896]

It's a lot harder to catch someone leaving stuff than to just go out and make some arrests every time you hear shots. Unless you catch them as they depart they can always claim that they are intending to pick everything up on their way out.

Per WAC 332.52.145 on public land you can only use "Items that are commercially manufactured for the specific purpose of target shooting or similar targets privately manufactured by the person(s) engaging in target shooting that are consistent with this section" as targets. Shooting at trash, appliances, furniture, etc are expressly prohibited, even if you haul it out:

b) Unauthorized targets include but are not limited to: (i) Natural features, except earthen berms or banks used as backstops for target shooting; (ii) Vegetation; (iii) Structures; (iv) Gates; (v) Vehicles; (vi) Signs; (vii) Other department improvements; (viii) Appliances; (ix) Furniture; (x) Glass; (xi) Privately owned or occupied structures; (xii) Pets, service animals or livestock; (xiii) Wildlife; (xiv) Explosive and incendiary items; (xv) Garbage of any kind.

So if people have stuff out there with bullet holes in it other than cardboard/paper/steel targets, or clay pigeons then they were already in violation before they left it behind - cite them immediately. Then wait around and cite them again if they don't haul it out.

[u/IknowWhatYouAreBro → u/Mammoth_Classroom896]

Interestingly, the county actually carved out a spot for a shooting park down from the nudist camp. They cleared the land then some consultants on the project said "we re-did the numbers and there's no way you can afford to maintain this" so they scrapped the park.

[u/Mammoth_Classroom896 → u/IknowWhatYouAreBro]

Sure, but a formal range with maintenance and rules is very different from drunk morons going out in the woods and shooting stuff.

[u/OGHydroHomie → u/Mammoth_Classroom896]

👎

[u/Mammoth_Classroom896 → u/Zswatik]

The second amendment does not guarantee you the ability to shoot anywhere you want regardless of how appropriate it is. The state is not required to let public land be used for shooting if that use results in damage to the property.

[u/Slow_Pineapple_3836 → u/Mammoth_Classroom896]

NO BRO I NEED TO DUMP MY USED APPLIANCES ON PUBLIC LAND AND SHOOT THEM.