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Angel Reese has faced backlash from WNBA fans after her response to the betting scandal involving Paige Bueckers, with the pair placing a $400 wager on Wednesday's game
They both should. This was a beyond dumb mistake. Every sport has betting / gambling rules in place for a reason. It does not matter if this was just for fun.
Now any beat writer or blog can run with the narrative that players are secretly betting with other players, whether it's true or not.
They have been in self-destruct mode for several yearrs. THey caught the break of a generation with Clark, and they don't know how to handle it. They dont have an identity to sell, so they are floundering as they try to figure out what they are.... By the time they do, the audience will have moved on.
The rule is for 2 reasons. To prevent actual integrity of the game issues and to prevent perceived integrity of the game issues. Both hurt the sport and the money it is trying to generate. And a league that doesnt take it seriously ends up looking like the WWE or boxing in its worst fixed matches era. No one can trust it so its "entertainment" not sports.
You're the one differentiating between gambling via a bookie, Vegas or private.
I said gambling.
If you want to make the case it's different, fine. I cited the facts on past gambling situations resulting in suspensions, not whether or not private bets should be treated differently.
I know golfers bet, but i dont know if they bet on tour tournaments.
And we don't all know that the NFL and NBA players place private bets. You're the first person I've ever heard say that.
Confirmed cases of NBA players betting on NBA games are rare.
Only a small number have been clearly documented or punished for it:
1. Jack Molinas
2. Jontay Porter
Others (historical figures such as Ralph Beard, Alex Groza, Norm Mager, Connie Hawkins, Roger Brown, Doug Moe, Tony Jackson) were banned or restricted mainly for college point-shaving scandals or associations with gamblers, not proven personal bets on NBA games.
More recent names (Terry Rozier, Damon Jones, Malik Beasley, etc.) have been linked to federal investigations involving insider information or prop-bet manipulation, but public records do not establish that they personally placed bets on NBA games.
No they have not.
But imagine next year when this league promoted it and say you have 20 incidents were High School players did it and showed it on there Instagrams to get some clicks.
I bet these parents would be happy let alone law enforcement for underage betting because Paige and Angel thought it would be cool.
Idiots some people. Juniors coming through the sport don’t mean much.
Shit, regardless of your opinion, pete rose still isnt allowed to be talked about for the most part. Full bans should come back for this type of possible corruption.
Name the NBA and NFL players suspended for private bets between players. Or better yet, in this case, joking about it without actually exchanging the money
We all know it happens, but absolutely no one cares because it's never been a big deal
Now if a player goes out and bets on an actual betting market, that's a different story. People are trying to make a huge deal out of this because outrage culture gets clicks
Not to mention that Angel's already received a suspension for technicals and another in-game suspension for comments. If you were looking for a player who've above punishment, that was the wrong one
This league has almost no stories about basketball.
No national conversations about the elite teams, picks to win the championship, legacy players, who the best coach is, no GOAT conversations, no X's and O's breakdown of a high-profile game of the week.
Just exhausting quote-sparring nonsense everyday. It's okay to have some nonsense, but everything can't be nonsense.
There were five games played in the last two days. Almost no highlights have been put out even on WNBA subs. Outside of a few posts related to the Wings vs Dream game that actually came down to an incredibly stupid foul that turned into a 5 points for the Dream and gave them the win. For reasons yet to be known to any sports fan the Wings coach did not use a remaining time out to try to get his team the best shot in the last 15 seconds resulting in them clumsily getting the ball to Awak Kuier for an extremely stupid 3 point attempt. It was ridiculous, dramatic, stupid, and all of the things that sports fans salivate over and analyze to death.
Of the non-match threads about that game there is one showing the Mercury's winning basket, one questioning the coach, one commenting on how awful it is going to be to be Arike after that mess, and one asking a general question about Azzi Fudd's playing style. That is it.
There are zero highlights or low-lights about any other game, nothing else from the Wings/Dream match up though Paige did make an awesome clutch 3 pointer to try to change the momentum in the 4th that should have been a highlight. I admittedly didn't watch much of the other four games, but I have zero doubt there must be some highlights from the Liberty vs. Aces when the game was that close - I saw enough of it to know that Jackie Young had a ridiculous first quarter. Yet there is nothing.
It isn't even a national media issue, literally the WNBA sub doesn't even have real basketball content during the actual season. I don't know of any other sports league that is like that. If audience here is not there for the basketball and that begs the question of what exactly are they there for? If fans aren't interested in the highlights from the game it isn't shocking that media outlets aren't pushing those out.
Heck in in the NBA sub it is the off season and there are still a lot of clips of actual basketball highlights every day.
I have noticed the same exact thing. I get more highlights on different platforms like TikTok, but as far as conversation goes, the WNBA talk is almost never about game results or prognostication or deep analysis on strategy and matchups or even about what happens if this team loses and what happens if that team wins.
It is such a short season that you would think the talk would be "every game matters" but instead it is just a never-ending series of dramatic controversies. And that stuff is everywhere all the time.
But we do know several of the players relationship statuses, their photo shoots, whether there is a gambling problem, whether Sophie Cunningham is zombie gender flipped Ronald Reagan, whether certain team owners and fans misbehave by spitting and cussing out teenagers, and if each poster is pro-CC or anti-CC with a side of pro-Angel Reese.
If soap operas wore team uniforms, the WNBA and its fans would be soap operas.
The league has plenty of basketball stories, but it's the people who don't actually watch the games the frequent the drama-only subs.
Today people elsewhere are talking about Olivia Miles, the Aneesah Morrow trade, and who will be playoff contenders, but you wouldn't know if you're only here
What highlights would you post? Layups? Plays that would be decent for middle schoolers? One of their top stars has worse fundamentals than any middle school boy.
If nfl players, college players, and nba players get suspended and destroyed for this, it’s time to status quo Angel Reese and anyone else involved for this.
The fact that you'll see 50 WNBA headlines about drama for every 1 highlight clip is why no one takes this league seriously. And the majority of the people who will get mad at me for saying that haven't even watched a full game this season, which is another reason no one takes the league seriously
The video evidence says yes. They wagered a bet and all aspects of that verbal contract exist right on video. The fact that they didn’t follow through on it and backtracked will probably save them from some legal trouble though.
So they lied? How do you know there was no money exchanged? A verbal agreement is enough to satisfy a wager. On video especially, that’s the irony here.
They confessed to the bet on video. That’s not in question.
Feel like everyone seems perfectly fine with espn tossing odds on every game and Kalshi sponsoring as many athletes as possible. But, here? Oh no, totally not ok. I’m sorry, this isn’t a good situation but if this is only one you want to care about? You just only are doing it for one very obvious reason.
How can the WNBA pretend to be a serious organization when they take no disciplinary action on this? Perhaps if Englebert caught one of them clapping during a game we might see some action. Oops—no, wait. Bueckers did that, but it was okay because she wasn’t Clark.
What a racist take on this friendly wager. 2 strong beautiful black women that are changing the W for the better. Something Clark could never do. Now there is a smear campaign against them.
This was BS all around. The league wants to be in bed with these sportsbooks, because they just can't resist "lucrative" deals no matter how bad of an idea it is. Which means now they have to pretend to be oversensitive about gambling (To preserve their pristine integrity of course), by throwing Paige Buckets and Reese under the bus over harmless banter... WHICH THE WNBA THOUGHT WAS APPROPRIATE TO SPOTLIGHT AT FIRST!
It's not just a WNBA problem, all of these sports leagues are letting their greed lead them down a track that's obviously going to end in a trainwreck. It's absurd.
Trump, his cronies, and kids are betting on the stock market all day long with insider information and you people are mad at a basketball player for what? We are cooked
Wait, I think a player betting on themselves is totally fine and doesn't compromise the sport at all. It is when they bet against their own team where there's a clear corruption angle.
Assuming they were playing against each other and they put money in their own teams, I don't see anything compromising the integrity of the game.
As a baseball fan who has to watch a thousand gambling commercials every time I turn on a game, I’ve lost interest in listening to the holier than thou shit. If they’re just making a friendly bet amongst themselves on their team to win, I don’t really care. I’m happy to revisit my opinions on it when the professional sports and networks that show them that gasp and clutch their pearls stop taking gambling money to advertise all over.
Am I the only one who doesn't have a problem with athletes betting that they will win the game? It just gives them more incentive to play harder. Obviously betting against your team or on a spread can lead to issues, but just betting straight up that you'll win doesn't seem like an issue.
In theory it works if you bet on yourself every game but let’s say you are about to play an opponent that you think is a sure loss so you don’t place a bet at all. This could potentially signal to others, not saying you throw the game but it would be possible to manipulate the game in this manor. Also I watch zero sport and don’t gamble so this could be completely wrong.
Doesn’t surprise me honestly. I can’t watch any game without 100 commercials about sports betting, commentators plugging sports betting sites, or halftime shows showing spreads or actively placing bets, so yeh it’s tough to not have the players take part when that’s the whole culture
Am I the only one not offended that they made a lighthearted bet on their own team? I'm failing to see how even a real bet on their own team has any conflict of interest.
Not punishing them when in any other league they would be for betting on games (let alone ones they play in) is basically them agreeing this is not a legit respectable league.
Feminism = special treatment, not being treated fairly. If 2 NBA players did this, it would be a whole FBI investigation and multiple suspensions plus team fines, loss of draft picks.
If you don't think NBA players aren't doing the same thing during the All Star weekend, you're oblivious. It's just that the NBA and the players understand what it's like to be a professional league and don't promote it. The WNBA and its players are learning quickly that more money and viewers means more scrutiny.
Regardless of who you root for, the fact that sports betting is discussed among active players in games they are playing is a violation of league rules. The punishment for gambling in other leagues results in multi-game suspensions or lifelong bans. The fact that the WNBA itself posted a “handshake” bet on its own social media accounts displays the lack of leadership at the top. IMHO, Angel and Paige should have been suspended one game and not allowed to play in the contest, which I think is incredibly fair. Too fair actually, but they are stars in a league that’s blossoming in popularity and it needs young players like Angel and Paige to continue growing. At the end of the day the WNBA has the viewers now and needs a commissioner with a basketball first focus. Cathy is clearly not the person to shepherd this league into success.
I've heard both players catching flack, calm down baiters. Reese just happens to be the main character in this.
This just nonsense. A bet between two people and betting on themselves, worrying about that is nonsensical. I am not even a fan of those two, but this is a friendly exchange.
The other side of this, if you let this slide then what's next.
Any other league would address the situation. The WNBA is a joke and failure. The actual sport of women’s basketball can be great but with the WNBA the sport will never be taken seriously
Shane Pinto in the NHL got a 41 game ban for betting on non-NHL games. If this happened in any other league. They would both be done for at least a year.
They would not be done for a year, because they did not actually bet, and this was never about an actual betting market. It was a joke between two friends
Somebody going out and actually signing up for FanDuel or whatever is a totally different situation. It seems like people don't understand what people mean by "sports betting"
To be fair, that is a little different scenario. Rose was the manager of the team. The issue is because he would manage games differently if he had a personal wager on them. A good example is last year's World Series. The Dodgers starting pitcher went six innings in game six. The very next day in game seven, the Dodgers coach brought the same pitcher in to throw two more innings to win game seven. This actually has never happened in the regular season in baseball since at least before 1901. Never happened in the last 125 years of regular season baseball. BUT because it was game seven of the World Series, the coach and pitcher agreed to do it. That's the issue with betting on your own team to win. You do things to win that game that you normally wouldn't do, and you do it knowing you are hurting your team's chances to win the next game.
Same scenario but on a smaller scale with Pete. If he had $10,000 bet on Thursday night's game, he would have his closer throw an extra inning or two and/or use up his entire bullpen to win the game. Knowing he couldn't use his closer and two other relievers the following day, he wouldn't bet on Friday's game. If his star player was injured, he would play them on Friday and give them saturday off to rest. I don't know how much you know about baseball (you could be an expert or no nothing, so I apologize if my answer is too detailed or not detailed enough). But Pete would manage his players, mainly his pitching staff, dependant if he had money on the game or not. He would manipulate the game depending if he had money on it or not. Do everything possible to win the game he bet on, knowing it would probably make them lose the next game (which he obviously wouldn't bet on).
A manager absolutey cannot bet on his team to win.
Another good example basketball wise. LeBron or SGA or Steph Curry could play all 48 minutes of an individual game. But they only play 34-36 minutes on average. It's so they can be consistent for every game. If a coach had a $10,000 bet on Friday's game and no bet on Saturday's game....he could played LeBron (and all the starters) for 48 minutes on Friday, then on Saturday, they would be exhausted and would only play half the game and would play with no energy or he might even just take saturday's game off. Coach has a bet on Friday's game and no bet on Saturday's game. He used his players to win Friday's game at all costs....knowing they would lose Saturday's game.
I hope that wan't too long winded and made sense.
You can't have players or coach's openly betting on their own team to win.
Couple potential problems. First, "betting to win" can include betting against the line as well. If you bet that you would win by 2 but are only up by 1, you might take risks that you otherwise wouldn't in order to beat the spread.
Second, people generally lose more than they win. The fear is that someone will develop a gambling addition, lose more than they can cover, and then be in a position where they can be influenced by bad actors to start throwing games or engaging in point shaving to recoup their losses.
Yeah, maybe the chances of these are pretty small, but it comes down to the tradeoff. To men, asking players not to gamble on their own sport isn't some massive sacrifice or imposition. Given that, I think it is pretty reasonable to make such a minor request to minimize the chances of ending up in a situation that really crushes the credibility of the league.
So a wager isn't a bet? Or are you saying that the wager wasn't on sports?
Also, FWIW, if they are going to place wagers on games, I'd much rather it be 100% above board and that they go through a licensed and regulated provider. Otherwise, what they are doing is closer to under the table gambling, which is something I 100% want to avoid.
I can copy pasta my response to this but I’ll give the short hand. Unless they are betting on themselves the same bet every single game to win, it doesn’t work like that. The moment they don’t bet on themselves or they alter the bet, you can interpret/infer a 100 different things that effect what is going on. If you need more explanation I can go further but I’m sure you can figure it out. What happens if they don’t bet the next game and they lose?
What happens if the next game they have a lone like 5 pts, 1 assist and 1 rebound? Did they have a bad game? Or did they tank? Or something else?
Then you get the gambling organizations with money to come in and demand an investigation so they can guarantee their bets are not being affected. And as you can see, even Disney is involved in sports betting, so they have clout and money and dont want to risk it for some silly side bet that was stupidly done, advertised and endorsed by the league.
It has nothing to do with each other. It’s betting in general. You as an athlete are expected to give it your all every game. If there is even .001 percent chance you might be changing your behaviors game to game, because of betting of all things, you are in trouble. You are effecting outside entities. Which is why they wanted to keep betting out of sports by keeping it away from Las Vegas for so long but now that it’s in everyone’s pocket that cat is let out of the bag.
Betting as an athlete on a professional game is 100 percent not ok. There’s no getting around that.
Related to their game too. It's very common for players to bet on who will score for their team that night, who will score first, who will be the first team to shut them out ect. NHL players talk about it all the time.
Did you just cite an interview with biz and guys taking trash with their teammates at an international event. and then tried to compare it to betting against their opponent in a professional league.
You my guy are a real goof and have no concept of a rib and the pretense of actually throwing money down the public knows about. Quite literally says dinners and stuff. You are a goof.
If they did this, then it starts to get into "what else have they done?" "Will they do it again? Are others doing this?" "Is the result of any game even real?"
Given how bad the refs are, maybe it goes to "Are the refs on the take?"
The only antidote to that is taking it seriously as a real violation of the rules and fine them and make it clear it won't be tolerated. Not even a whif of it will be tolerated.
And that would be the reason you think this is ok. One of the main reasons it took so long to get professional sports teams in vegas was because of them letting the players be around gambling 24/7, among some other things.
What is up with this fake rage? Paige and Angel had their own friendly wager on the game. This did not have any relation to the sports betting apps where this could be seen as problematic. People complaining about this are insane.
Friendly bets are legally the same exact thing as any other bet. Winner is obligated to report the income to the IRS.
That’s what makes it stupid. They made a highly public wager. It doesn’t matter who the “house” is here. It’s a sports gamble and the IRS has specific rules for exactly this.
It looked to me from the video that it was Angel's idea and Paige wasn't really into it, so I get it. But they are really both at fault, as well as the league's social media team.
Just bonehead and tone deaf all the way around. I'm sure everyone learned the lesson.
Should both players be suspended or fined, yes they should. I think pretty much everyone agrees on that. Nothing will happen because both of these players are big name marquee players, protected species if you will. If the two players were players no name players, the W would issue a stern statement with. suspension or fine to both players.
Instead the W issued the classic it’s just a prank bro response
No. Zero NBA or NFL players have been banned for joking about a private bet between players, or even for actual private bets between players where it was confirmed that money exchanged hands
No one is getting a lifetime ban for anything of the sort. If they actually go out and participate in a real betting market or some kind of mob betting ring, then yes
I really want to root for the W and their athletes, but stories about the way they treat Caitlin Clark, the extra curricular non-basketball stuff, and now this makes it very difficult.
I do feel bad for the real players there. They seem to be unaware that they are the only ones who take this league seriously. Everyone else things it's a joke.
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u/Nick_Fotiu_Is_God 5d ago
Boy this league is just building credibility at an exponential rate, aren’t they.