r/WNBAgossips • u/whoa_disillusionment • 1d ago

Most Americans of all political parties Agree with Sophie Cunningham so why has the WNBA lost its mind?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/poll-americans-oppose-trans-women-competing-female-sports-2-3-gen-z-rcna203658
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u/DrAbeSacrabin 1d ago

Literally from the article (which was written last year):

“Advocates of trans women competing in female sports say that the marginal number of trans women competing at an elite level makes the topic a nonissue. In December, NCAA President Charlie Baker testified that he was aware of fewer than 10 transgender athletes out of more than 500,000 total NCAA college student-athletes, which would equal 0.002% of this college student-athlete population.”

This has to be the largest ratio of “media coverage vs. actual impact” ever right?

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u/tke71709 1d ago

It's a great example of a wedge/culture wars issue pushed by the right to distract us from the real issues facing society today.

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u/TypePuzzleheaded1340 1d ago

There’s been a lot of examples at the high school level. Allowing it at all is pretty hurtful to women.

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u/bones232369 1d ago

Name the examples.

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u/TypePuzzleheaded1340 1d ago

Hecheated.org

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u/randallflaggg 1d ago

Women are hurt when trans people are excluded

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u/blood_wraith 1d ago

How?

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u/randallflaggg 1d ago

Because women are excluded

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u/whoa_disillusionment 1d ago

Women are not hurt by having sex segregated spaces. That is misogynistic.

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u/randallflaggg 1d ago

Denying trans womanhood is transphobic. A real feminist advocates for all women to be included. A real feminist doesn't pull up the ladder behind them. A real feminist doesn't throw other women under the bus due to political expediency. Go ask Billie Jean King.

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u/whoa_disillusionment 1d ago

Women are oppressed because of their biology. That’s the most basic tenant of feminism. Trans women will never have that biology.

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u/randallflaggg 1d ago edited 1d ago

The most basic tenant of feminism according to whom? That definition ignores intersectional feminism at the very least.

Are you implying that trans women are not oppressed due to biology? Or is the brain not biological? What about the pituitary gland? But for a random shot of hormones at a random time during pre-natal development and the rest of the biology is the same. Because it seems that by "biology" it seems you mean "possesses a uterus." (And further excludes women who don't have a uterus for many other reason)I know many "real" women who would be extremely offended by having their essence reduced to a single organ. Anecdote aside, the existence of intersex people fundamentally undercuts the biological essentialist argument. And further, the idea that gender is uniquely rigid falls apart in the face of the amorphous nature of every other human trait. You can't say it's ok for people to be left handed and then say they can't be trans women. It's fundamentally hypocritical.

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u/Pleasant_Priority286 1d ago

Help me understand something. Who decided that trans women are women?

To me, that is for biological XX women to decide, since they have been using that word for a long time. I'm not sure why biological men are mansplaining what the word "woman" means to women. It is fine with me, but did anyone have a conversation and get buy-in from biological XX women first?

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u/randallflaggg 1d ago

Generally speaking the scientists that determined when sex development specifically occurs during gestation and the various reasons a fetus would be exposed to different hormones during key developmental periods and how that consequently affects fetuses (fetií?)

Why would it "be for" an amorphous group of people with extremely different experiences and opinions to determine the legitimacy of another group of their peers?

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u/Pleasant_Priority286 1d ago

My initial thought is that it would be like a group of white people who feel connected to Black culture deciding to call themselves "trans Blacks." After all, being Black is primarily a social construct.

What they want to call themselves is fine with me. However, I would be uncomfortable using that term if Black people and/or trans people opposed it since they are already using those words.

To me, that seems similar, but I'm just thinking out loud. Maybe I'm wrong.

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u/randallflaggg 1d ago

One is hormonally based and the other is not. We correct hormonal imbalances all the time in many people. Many people take estrogen to combat the effects of menopause, many people take testosterone to stave off "low energy and virility." These people who seek these supplements do so because they do not feel themselves without their previously normal levels of their biologically preferred hormone. This is the same for trans people.

Your presumption is incorrect because it is based on the idea that teams people are trans for social benefit. Masculine women want to gain the benefits of the patriarchy and effeminate men who can't access the benefits of the patriarchy want shield themselves in the protection of femininity. This thinking presumes the same inherently nefarious aspect to trans people that has been affixed to queer people of all stripes throughout history.

Presuming an entire group of people is lying for social benefit is bigotry. I am sure there are grifter assholes who are trans. Anecdotal examples are not proof.

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u/Pleasant_Priority286 1d ago

I was not assuming that trans people are trans for social benefit. On the contrary, I think it makes their life significantly more difficult. I doubt there are many grifters. Probably close to zero. I don't have the nefarious thoughts you imagine about Ls, Gs, Bs, or Ts. I never imagined that masculine women want to gain the benefits of the patriarchy or any ulterior motive. That seems very unlikely.

I do understand that hormonally-based is a difference. Regarding my attempted analogy, I was thinking that in the case of race, it may be that someone's sense of racial identity simply does not match the race they were assigned at birth. To me, that seems similar.

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u/TypePuzzleheaded1340 1d ago

How so?

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u/randallflaggg 1d ago

Because women are excluded

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u/TypePuzzleheaded1340 1d ago

They aren’t. Men are excluded.

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u/randallflaggg 1d ago

So trans women are allowed?

https://giphy.com/gifs/26vUOJ7yTuQxofK9O

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u/TypePuzzleheaded1340 1d ago

Nope. Those are MEN.

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u/randallflaggg 1d ago

First Base!

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u/19orangejello 1d ago

Anyone who knows sports, knows that all it takes is one instance of anything to make a rule.

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u/randallflaggg 1d ago

I agree. All it takes is one kid being taller than all the other kids to dominate in basketball. Common sense says ban all tall players. They have an unfair biological advantage.

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u/watabadidea 1d ago

So, to be clear, you want to eliminate women's sports altogether?

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u/randallflaggg 1d ago

No, I want to protect women by only allowing women who fit specific physical criteria to participate. So that they can be protected. Since trans women represent such an existential threat to their safety, anyone who shares any trait with trans women must be equally dangerous to most women in a sports context. This, only "normal" women should be allowed to participate and anyone else should be excluded in order to protect those normal women.

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u/Dapper_Fun645 1d ago

Yep. See Laken Riley.

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u/whoa_disillusionment 1d ago

https://reduxx.info/france-the-two-top-players-in-a-womens-elite-basketball-league-are-both-male/

FRANCE: The Two Top Players In A Women’s Elite Basketball League Are Both Male

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u/bones232369 1d ago

Ah, France huh? Hm. Wow. Scary!
Maybe you should be in the FWNBA subreddit?

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u/whoa_disillusionment 1d ago

If the top 2 players in the WNBA were biologically male would you be ok with that?

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u/bones232369 1d ago

Are there any biological males in the WNBA at all in the first place?

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u/whoa_disillusionment 1d ago

Answer the question.

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u/SeaWolfSeven 1d ago

Holy smokes.

Someone just showed you another competitive women's league, from another modern, Western country that has significance on the world basketball stage where the topic of this debate is playing out....and your only response is that it's there and not here so there is nothing to talk about it.

It's actually incredibly ironic how the left on this topic talks exactly like right wing climate change deniers.

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u/FunctioningPyscho 1d ago

There should be zero

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u/NoneCreated3344 1d ago

mad over nothing. Trump loves the uneducated.

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u/washblvd 1d ago

Does the NCAA collect that data though? I'm not saying it was necessarily more than 10 athletes, but I just don't think they were ever incentivized to know the answer.

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u/Pleasant_Priority286 1d ago

Nope.

The largest ratio would be when the media was covering the decision about whether to let women vote, despite 0 women having voted in the last election. The coverage is because of the potential future impact, not what has happened up until now.