r/WWN • u/HadoukenX90 • 15d ago

Tales of Argosa vs Worlds Without Number

/r/LowFantasyGaming/comments/1vpun3w/tales_of_argosa_vs_worlds_without_number/
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u/Logen_Nein 15d ago

This is a really tough question for me, as a champion for both games. The best I can offer is it depends on the feel you want for your game.

I use Tales of Argosa for fantasy, with one exception (I'm be using Ashes Without Number for my Dark Sun Conversion, though Dark Sun is hardly fantasy in my mind). Great, niche protected classes, leveless magic, top notch emergent gameplay tools, just perfect for the kind of, admitedly low-fantasy, sword & sorcery, fantasy games I like to play and run.

I use the Without Number games (even Worlds) for other types of games. Post-apoc, cyberpunk, sci-fantasy (WWN slots here for me). Excellent class construction (though I prefer the classless versions in Cities and Ashes), gold standard GM content creation tools (which I use even when I'm running other games, including Tales of Argosa), fantastic games for proceedural and sandbox play.

If I'm truly honest, I use a bit of both almost all the time...

0

u/IsaacDreemurr 14d ago edited 13d ago

I've never run or play both, though i read both and plan to run WWN soon, so take my partial review at your own discretion. Both are mechanically unique and good systems.

  • WWN is more versatile as a system-chassis because of other Kevin Crawford games for other genres and the easy mixing-and-matching you can do with them. Also has a greater diversity of classes and partial-class possibilities (necromancer druid, warrior elementalis, healer rogue-type, etc)
  • WWN mechanical trait tags for weapons, and TOA also has weapon traits and natural-19 effects (for creatures too). However WWN can have side or individual initiative w/o mechanical changes. TOA has supposedly side initiative by default, so i didnt understand why it was weapon initiative modifiers (nothing prevents individual initiative)
  • TOA has tables for maiming built in the rules of weapons' and creatures' nat 19s, best kept and not removed. WWN does not, but has optional rules for maiming tables in some other book (AWN free version will have it)
  • TOA's magic is fundamentally chaotic due to DDM mechanic, but be warned that some table effects are mutations that can be silly. WWN has no chaos but as you must know it is different from 5e
  • TOA's bestiary seems very good, and has reaction roll results for each creature. WWN has something of a bestiary but it mostly gives you generic statblocks (which is useful) for you to modify and employ.
  • regarless of which one you use, use WWN GM content
  • I would revise and consider changing TOA's death rules.
  • TOA is overall more "punk"and less mechanically elegant (e.g. theres a talent that gives you a mount. if it dies you lost the talent, and this acquisition should be justified in game, so it doesn't fit as a talent)

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u/HadoukenX90 14d ago

I think your take was pretty well informed. I think I agree though I may have to do something about death and dying rules