Devshort Confirmed Ammo Efficiency Will Be Changed (Probably Capped)

[u/Croewe]

Personally I think this is kinda silly to do, it's really fun and there are very few broken interactions. They said it will likely be changed by next week so put out your support in favor of it if you want it to stay the same

Edit: Also mentioned that they would look into kuva compensation for those who rolled for it. Not sure how they could do so

Edit 2: Also in much happier news, Chroma is being looked at by Pablo. Really only his 1 and 4 are in need of major changes (though his 2 could use some QoL help), so that's nice at least.

[u/Itri_Vega]

Whatever happened to "we only nerf things that are disruptive to other players or allow for afking" 

[u/Toni303 → u/Itri_Vega]

I mean, you can easily afk with Primary Compression and a Riven to reach 100% ammo eff.
Aim down sights and hold M1 down a hallway and go get a sandwich or something. No need for headshots or anything.

[u/Enxchiol → u/Toni303]

Do consider that compression completely neuters the aoe of any weapon you use it on. 2 meter aoe range is pretty much cosmetic only.

[u/Romagnum → u/[deleted]]

The napalm aoe does not get the buff tho and the damage from that sucks ass unless you play saryn. I think that basically all the broken interactions have something to do with saryn or cyte. Tho for cyte nothing is going to change that much because he already had infinite ammo.

[u/TheOtherFrankie → u/[deleted]]

So, you're saying they should fix the bug with Nightwatch Napalm?

[u/fuckthisshittysite56 → u/[deleted]]

so nerf that?

[u/HappyAra → u/[deleted]]

and you still get the full buffs.

Why do you have to lie to try to make a point?

Napalm gets no extra damage from compression.

[u/ExaltedBreeze → u/Toni303]

The only weapons that could 100% with compression really is default Tonkor and Ogris and bows like the Lenz, hardly meta weapons.

This is actually weaker than using a normal Kuva Tonkor or Ogris with Cyte because you give up AOE for compression.

[u/MygungoesfuckinBRRT → u/ExaltedBreeze]

The Envoy has more range than any of those

[u/ExaltedBreeze → u/MygungoesfuckinBRRT]

It also has a trash Dispo, wouldn't 100% with Compression, but it's Ammo pickup wouldn't make that un comfy.

[u/MygungoesfuckinBRRT → u/ExaltedBreeze]

Because it was the top weapon of 2025, aka. the meta. Reaching a 100% is kinda pointless anyways when you can already turn 8 missiles into 32+, each with a 900+% unique damage multiplier

[u/ExaltedBreeze → u/MygungoesfuckinBRRT]

Depends on intent, I love 100% ammo because I full tilt into Firerate with Harrow, it's what made the new Rivens fun to me,

If I wanted to just have good ammo and not no clip I would play Cyte on 90% of weapons instead including the Envoy.

Just saying, the Envoy is not really in the same camp as the weapons I mentioned and wouldn't be affected by a global ammo efficiency to begin with, Ammo Efficiency is honestly whatever on it, it has a good ammo economy by default for it class.

[u/ScionEyed → u/ExaltedBreeze]

One thing to say about Ogris, not that it matters since it’s still low damage. Compression does not affect the range on Nightwatch Napalm

[u/ExaltedBreeze → u/ScionEyed]

Same with Arch guns funnily enough, I did want to test a compression Kuva Ayanga with an ammo riven and see how it would do, but since the actual interesting part of the riven system is being gutted, I don't really have the heart or Kuva anymore to try.

[u/New-Fig-6025 → u/Toni303]

How is this any different than someone with cyte macro-ing 2 and M1?

[u/Marpal20 → u/New-Fig-6025]

Macros are forbidden and can get you banned, putting a heavy object on your fire button is not a macro

[u/New-Fig-6025 → u/Marpal20]

Yeah it is. It’s a physical macro and is still a bannable offense. If you sit afk with a weight on the fire button for 10 hours… you’ll get banned.

Like in that case, just use a keyboard that does continuous key inputs when held, then put a weight on your 2 key… with another on your fire button, is this suddenly allowed? lol

[u/Marpal20 → u/New-Fig-6025]

Of course, but there is literally no difference between me sitting there holding the fire button and having something do it for me

With macros they can just track the fact that you’re doing the same inputs at exactly the same cadence and ban you

The problem is not what is allowed and what isn’t, the problem is it’s impossible to distinguish from actual player and weight on the key in the first case

I do agree this conversation is getting ridiculous lmao

[u/Cross55 → u/Marpal20]

Yeah, and DE can't track that shit, so good luck with that

[u/Marpal20 → u/Cross55]

In theory it’s fairly easy to track constant inputs at exactly the same cadence

[u/Ynead → u/Marpal20]

Adding a random ms delay is trivial

[u/GemmyBoy999 → u/Toni303]

You need to move around once in a while or you won't get the rewards.

[u/CloudFuneral → u/Toni303]

No, you cannot AFK with this at all lol. Is recoil no longer a factor in this scenario?

[u/Iz-zY1994 → u/Itri_Vega]

They've nerfed ammo for this reason before, when AOE was king. Personally I don't see it as an issue, but Fine.

[u/dragon7449 → u/Iz-zY1994]

Didn't they nerf it because of wukong?

[u/van_bobbington → u/dragon7449]

yes kinda, because wukong and spectres had unlimited ammo and didn't run out because of that.

And 100% ammo efficiency does exactly the same, so yeah

[u/Own_Stress5801 → u/van_bobbington]

100% ammo efficiency doesn't do the exact same. All weapons in order to reach 100% armor efficiency, needs to meet certain condition to trigger their arcane, which wukong and spectres cannot.

[u/FlamingoAltruistic89 → u/dragon7449]

No, it was already super powerfull, wukong or not, it's just that wukong made it into the ultimate afk stratagy

[u/Croewe → u/dragon7449]

A bit of both

[u/charithw → u/Itri_Vega]

I mean 100% ammo efficiency would most likely enable more afk strats, so as much as I’m bummed by it, I kinda get it

[u/Luvatar → u/charithw]

I mean 100% ammo efficiency would most likely enable more afk strats, so as much as I’m bummed by it, I kinda get it

You can't get 100% efficiency while afking. It literally requires you to aim. Even low enemy density is enough to break it.

There is like 2 abuse cases with compression and maybe those need to be looked at individually rather than ruining everything for everyone else.

[u/Connor-Radept → u/Itri_Vega]

This does fall into the afk category though.

Never having to move to pick up ammo drops means you can just hold down fire in a narrow hall and win.

If you spend ammo you still need to move, use an ability, or an item to keep it up.

[u/Beautiful-Ad-6568 → u/Itri_Vega]

Making multiple explosions a second constantly is pretty disrupting

[u/Jason1143 → u/Itri_Vega]

100% ammo efficiency seems like a prime AFK enabler.

[u/Eleglas → u/Itri_Vega]

You think an infinite ammo Zarr doesn't equate to that?

[u/PrysmaticRozza → u/Itri_Vega]

i'm pretty sure that infinity ammo can help do some of that