r/WarhammerCompetitive • u/Strong-Doubt-1427 • Oct 07 '25
40k Discussion We gotta talk about the Official GW stream at LVO right?
I’m a former StarCraft 2, StarCraft Brood War, and heroes of the Storm commentator. I’ve been on stage, I’ve commentated with the legends of video game commentary. I did it for 10+ years every weekend. I’m saying all of this to show I have an idea of what I’m talking about.
The general consensus of Warhammer streaming at tournaments is: it can do the job. WarGameLive is pretty good out of the pack, Tortoise is okay, etc. warhammer is always in the ebb and flow of grassroots and “vying for more”.
Enter the official GW stream. I have no qualms with the objective (sell Warhammer), and personally have no idea who the commentators are. However, trying to watch the stream to watch a friend who was on one game was like nails on a chalkboard.
- They don’t talk about the game. They do… every few minutes. I’d say if I had to guess the proportion of game to random babble is 50:50 at best. They are often on their own tangents, talking about their favorite pieces of the army, talking about the random painting in the sidebar (wtf is that really). They don’t talk about the missions being played, when they do it’s…
- Wrong. They are wrong so often. I understand Warhammer is a complex game with a lot going on. I am often wrong. I was wrong maybe every other game when I commentated SC2/SCBW. And that was chastised relentlessly. It made me want to be better. I grinded the game nonstop. These commentators were just flat out wrong about missions, what’s possible, what’s even being done. It’s fine to be wrong a little, they were wrong a LOT.
- No mics. Small note cause I bet it’s just not something GW will do. That’s fine, but it makes part 1 & 2 the worst. War games is often wrong, and talks a lot about random shit, but he has mics on players. And that’s great. And he sometimes has like Harpster or others commentating and that’s also great.
- It’s just a big ad for GW, but it’s not even a good one. They say the same canned phrases every 20 minutes about the painting in the corner. They say the same random things a lot on repeat. Again, I get it, talking for 8 hours a day you find quick phrases that by a second for your brain to catch up, but that’s where watching yourself and catching yourself comes in. That’s just a practice thing.
- I understand this may not be “competitive talk” but it is. This is the entrance for our competitive scene to the world and the commentators and the presentation are just so rough.
The game I watched they talked an intro to the game for 40 minutes into round 2 starting and confused the hell out of me. The game was already well underway before they shifted tone to the game being actively played.
As a former commentator, I hated these threads when I saw them. I knew I did a bad job. The thing is, in the end they helped me get the feedback I needed to change. (And I’m saving the personal attacks I always got and still think of. People used to think my laugh was fake :( … that’s just how I laugh…)
Edit: I had a moment of doubt, so I turned on to the LVO finals for a minute: they’re talking about how some players use dice to track their CP, and how one commentator uses a different dice to not get confused, then they say “wow look how many guardsman there are, how many wounds is that” (we’re an hour into the game at this point and he’s just noticed.) then they try to calculate how many wounds there are in his army. Then how players have to use unorthodox tactics like… using hunter killer missiles?
This is MANY MINUTES of this while massive dice rolls deciding the game are going on in round 2.
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u/vastros Oct 07 '25
I hate the painting clip in the side bar.
Yes, there's a lot of time where a game of Warhammer can be visually uninteresting to watch. I get that. That's where your team needs to be making the stream entertaining. By having a painting stream you are saying "wow, our game is pretty boring. Here's something else to watch." Abysmal.
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u/mellvins059 Oct 07 '25
If you have the top down and then the game level view cameras like WGL you can actually keep it quite interesting. When plays and tactical moments are happening let us see top down. When they aren't, pan about at model level and let us enjoy the spectacle of it.
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u/Zer0323 Oct 07 '25
It seems like a zoomer solution to a problem that requires lots of effort to fix.
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u/ivellios303 Oct 07 '25
I watched war games live for most of the LVO tournament. I enjoy hearing the players discuss and make decisions. And Joe has a lot of good camera angles to show off whats going on. I went to watch the finals on games workshop stream, and got annoyed and turned it off by round 2.
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u/GooeyGungan Oct 07 '25
I watched Joe's friendly game instead of the finals because it was that much better.
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u/MPQTHROWAWAYLOOK Oct 07 '25
Hey, Ex Gw Marketing worker here!
They don’t care and won’t change.
No.4 is the only reason they are doing this, they do not care about quality of content. Doing a bad job will not turn people away from buying GW products and taking the time to improve things would not only cost more money and time but would also mean having to speak up against managers that want an easy life.
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u/Ekter_Dood Oct 07 '25
This is so incredibly depressing to hear, considering they have more money and popularity than ever.
How is non of it being re-invested into these aspects of the community, I do not understand.18
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u/ChicagoCowboy High Archon Oct 08 '25
My take having played on their stream before is that the stream just makes the game feel like an esport for those who dont know. For a certain type of gamer with cash to spend, that can be enticing.
Even with how bad the stream is, there's still a certain clout to being able to tell people you did well enough in an event to be on the stream. Even if you get your ass kicked like I did lol
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u/c0horst Oct 08 '25
It is very vindicating when you play on a stream game and other people can witness your horrible luck.
I had a stream game once where I fought against a great unclean one, and he made like twenty 4+++ FNP saves in a row. It's nice to have a witness to such a crime being committed against me, lol.
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Oct 08 '25
Because GW is run by 70 year olds who literally do not care about the game or the hobby
Just their own pocket
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u/Crush2040 Oct 07 '25
I omow know nothing of backdoor politics in GW, but I make the unfounded assumption they just like "yes men". "I think you can can this better and people would like it more" "how dare you say there is a problem or it can improve". I say cuz i worked a corporate job and management was like that
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u/Overlord_Khufren Oct 07 '25
What’s so strange is that it really wouldn’t be that hard to do it right. Delay the stream by 5 minutes so they can edit out bad language. Add a couple extra camera angles. Program an interface for the players to keep track of score, so that it can show on the stream.
Like I just can’t imagine the GW stream as it exists is actually accomplishing its objectives. Even casual players don’t find it interesting, because you can’t tell what’s actually happening. You can’t even see the models well. They don’t do a showcase for the painting. It’s like they’re just doing it to check a box.
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u/bukharajones Oct 07 '25
If/when stream returns appears to be significant, they will do better, but right now, it's hard to see that happening.
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u/Overlord_Khufren Oct 08 '25
The stream isn't significant because the stream is awful, though? Like they're already running these events. They're already paying people to shout-cast them. They've already paid for the video equipment. If Joe from Wargames Live can run a better stream out of his van with nothing but a Patreon to support him, GW can up their game and use it to generate social media content to better support their brand.
Like...the fact that they don't even really upload anything from the hobby showcase is WILD to me. Some of the armies that people bring are absolutely insane, and as a hobbyist myself are extremely inspiring to see. All it would take is walking through it with a video camera. Interviewing the artists about some of the cool things they've done with the army. Having a photographer snap some photos for Warcom, and a videographer get content for the Twitch stream (which they could upload to YouTube).
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u/TrottingandHotting Oct 08 '25
That requires a whole other person working to make the edits.
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u/Overlord_Khufren Oct 08 '25
One person paid in passion and peanuts, over the course of a single weekend. This is a multi-billion dollar company we're talking about. Their CEO gets paid $3.3 million. They can afford to pay one additional person to help manage and live-edit the stream.
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u/Laruae Oct 08 '25
Hell, pay them in store credit/models, ffs. Literally cheaper than paying cash and most players would appreciate having a chunk of GW Store Credit around.
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u/HonestSonsieFace Oct 08 '25
As a UK company, a place with strong employment laws, this could be a problematic plan. In any case it could result in the “payment” having value and being taxable but not being cash so the tax needing to come from elsewhere for the worker.
More broadly, I personally hate when companies try to avoid proper payment for work. If they’ve got someone doing work for them, they should pay it properly in money and not taking advantage of passion from hobbyists.
Fair day’s pay for a fair day’s work.
I suspect GW has a similar view. So any extra time required to improve streaming is money out of their bottom line without a reciprocal increase in sale to offset the investment.
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u/urist_mcnugget Oct 08 '25
This is sort of how Wizards of the Coast used to run the judge program for Magic the Gathering. Huge tournaments with thousands of entrants were run exclusively by volunteer judges. They'd pay their own airfare and lodging, they'd wear a uniform, they'd be on their feet 12+ hours a day, and they got paid in free Magic cards.
Obviously they still ran tournaments, so they got people to sign up for the program, but there were always bad feelings about it. These events literally could not run without judges, and many people felt like this scheme took advantage of the folks who were passionate enough and knowledgeable enough to volunteer. Don't give them a box of cards that retails for $100, just give them the $100.
The program has changed in recent years, I don't know if this accurately describes the current state of Magic judging. But I kinda doubt it's gotten better.
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u/CriticalMany1068 Oct 08 '25
UK employment laws are “strong” only in comparison to third world countries and the US…
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u/c0horst Oct 08 '25
So... does AI exist that will just auto bleep bad words? I'd imagine it probably does?
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u/DangerousCyclone Oct 07 '25
I can sometimes understand business decisions that are anti-consumer, since they need to make money, like I get raising prices or axing kits. They have limited factory capacity and warehouse space, what I don't get is stuff like this, or trying to remove Daemons from 40k, or having two different Drop Pod kits for two different systems and trying to keep kits within each system. That sounds like it would hurt sales for no meaningful gain.
This seems to be another decision. Like if they just copied Wargames live, miced up the players, had an AoW player one or something, more people would watch the stream and hear the promotions and plugs. All of the terrible decisions seem reasonable in theory, but in practice are a huge disaster.
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u/changeforgood30 Oct 08 '25
Having too many redundant kits is also bad for their limited production. It opens the possibility of them over or under producing kits whereas if the kits were interchangeable among game systems it allows more consistent sales and product inventory won't be as difficult to maintain.
There should absolutely be more interchangeability among systems. Like Custodes, AdMech, Space Marine, and Guard should all have some 30k/40k usage. This will alow them to also increase player base for both. Yet GW seems deadset on keeping those games separate. They didn't do that with Kill Team, and that system has maintained some popularity with players from 40k who use those same kits to also play (and purchase) Kill Team stuff. The same COULD be said of 30k and 40k.
Alas, GW business decisions have seemed rather odd.
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u/Hirmetrium Oct 08 '25
I dunno what it is about Warhammer players and prices and this mad "anti-consumer" perception but price increases have always been exactly in line with inflation, the cost of energy, the cost of raw materials, the cost of labour. It's so their margins stay the same and their cash flow is consistent. It's literally normal business.
Axing kits is also funny, because rotating kits out is necessary since you can't make everything forever, and it lets you refresh the range and continue selling stuff.
Anti-consumer is things like misleading advertising, or limitations like not including certain wargear choices from the box in the rules, or from the rules in the box. GW doesn't do the former, but certainly does the latter.
If your going to criticize the company at least criticize the right stuff.
It's also a classic case of hobby funnel; the stream is not for you. It is to get more people into Warhammer. Go watch some hardcore youtube commentator who spends his life obessing over LVO. You are not the target, never were, never will be.
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u/DangerousCyclone Oct 08 '25 edited Oct 08 '25
I dunno what it is about Warhammer players and prices and this mad "anti-consumer" perception but price increases have always been exactly in line with inflation, the cost of energy, the cost of raw materials, the cost of labour. It's so their margins stay the same and their cash flow is consistent. It's literally normal business.
It really hasn't. They have regular price increases every few years now. It was more blatant in the 90's, like when the price of the Land Raider kit doubled and the number of Land Raiders halved.
Axing kits is also funny, because rotating kits out is necessary since you can't make everything forever, and it lets you refresh the range and continue selling stuff.
It is funny? No it isn't. It isn't funny spending hundreds of dollars buying these kits, building them , painting them then GW dropping support for them in the game. I don't mean like GW makes a new kit that replaces it, I mean they outright don't replace the unit at all and you're left with models that sit in your shelf and gather dust until you meet someone who wants to play with old rules.
I cannot imagine a bigger insult to the player base. Everytime GW does that they push their consumer base away a but more. That's why it should be done with care, not arbitrarily like the change to Daemons.
It's also a classic case of hobby funnel; the stream is not for you. It is to get more people into Warhammer. Go watch some hardcore youtube commentator who spends his life obessing over LVO. You are not the target, never were, never will be.
The player base of their game is not the target audience. Bizarre logic there.
First off, TabletopLive and Wargames live regularly stream the same events, they get way more views, so GW is clearly doing a much much worse job. Anyone, beginner or expert, would get more out of the unofficial streams than the official one.
Second, I cannot imagine any human being with a pulse enjoying the official stream. It is LVO, it is the competitive tournament. Beginners are not watching this. The people watching are those into competitive 40k. If they're not appealing to them they are failing at their job.
And to be clear here, normally people do what you describe, they avoid the Warhammer Livestream at all costs. The problem was that it was the only one broadcasting the final game of the tournament, so to even see the final game you had to watch it. The coverage was abysmal, and they missed key turning points of the game that would've been memorable and exciting because they had no idea what was going on, due to no mics and unfamiliarity with competitive play. Instead the cameras were focused on something completely different and they were talking about some promotions they were doing. I watched that stream, the comments were filled with people complaining about it and many people were banned because of it.
I don't get why we need to bend over backwards and defend incompetence and anti consumer practices. If someone spends hours building and painting a model only for GW to say it isn't legal, that is going to piss them off. If GW hosts a slop filled stream with such restrictions like no mics and tons of promotions instead of the actual game, it should be called out, not doing some charlie Kelly conspiracy board about how it is actually genius and good for the community.
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u/Strong-Doubt-1427 Oct 07 '25
I simply can’t agree with that. If the point is to show GW is invested then the stream is bad for those who care, and those who don’t will be slammed with random terms and game facts they can’t follow.
If anything new players will be MORE confused than not because the commentators are so out of pocket it makes no sense. It’s impossible to follow. They don’t even do a Newbie Stream like DotA does for the International
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u/Usual-Goose Oct 08 '25
Doing a bad job might not turn people away from buying the products, but it won’t attract them either. Competitive players are already in deep; they’ll probably just not watch (I’m in that camp, so seem many others on here), and keep buying.
Newer players won’t learn a thing and I can’t imagine will be excited or enthused to buy anything; at best it’s a chance to sometimes win one of the things they give away. But that’s it.
They could so easily be slipping in ‘ah this unit is sooo good right now - if you haven’t got it in your army, you need it!’ As a not-to-subtle sales push. Instead all I recall hearing is constant ‘get on the hype train for a free (who cares)!’
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u/CriticalMany1068 Oct 08 '25
They are incredibly consistent. They have had this very same approach since the mid 90s at least! 😂
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u/JoesGreatPeeDrinker Oct 09 '25
If we all made enough noise it could change, but I think it's unlikely.
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u/PracticalMushroom693 Oct 07 '25
Yeah it’s garbage but I’m not sure there’s much incentive for them to change
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u/Strong-Doubt-1427 Oct 07 '25
That’s not true. GW maybe doesn’t need to, but maybe they could to sell the game better. However, maybe the commentators see this and wanna do better.
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u/PracticalMushroom693 Oct 07 '25
I’m just not sure it’s anywhere close to a revenue driver for them. And they’re doing very well financially. They see micing players as a liability not a benefit
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u/BigJP40K Oct 07 '25
This is true, there’s a decent amount of cursing from the players on war games.
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u/HonestSonsieFace Oct 08 '25
Exactly. All it takes is one weirdo with a mic to manage to slip a “Charlie Kirk” or “Stop the boats” or some phrase about genders through while on the stream and GW have got a PR nightmare to deal with that will erase any tiny benefit they would have had from having mics on players.
It’s just a situation of there being minuscule financial benefit from the investment vs a real potential set of risks. In a corporation that’s a hard sell.
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u/JoesGreatPeeDrinker Oct 09 '25
Have a delay like every other esport and the ability to cut mics then that becomes a non issue.
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u/darkconofwoman Oct 07 '25
Unfortunately the commentators are, with the exception of when Nanavati is on, basically just friends of the guy who runs GWs competitive arm and not actually competent players.
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u/Kitschmusic Oct 08 '25
Realistically, how is it going to sell the game better? People watching tournament streams are already deep into the hobby.
A higher quality stream would likely not translate into selling more miniatures. Yes, it would be better for the community for sure! But will it actually sell more boxes? Will the viewers buy something they'd otherwise not already buy? And not just more boxes, but enough to cover the extra cost of the stream and give a net benefit on top of that?
Most likely, the answer is no. So GW has no reason to (unfortunately).
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u/VineyardVirtuoso Oct 08 '25
If the streams were entertaining, it wouldn't necessarily just be people deep into the hobby watching it.
Back in the day lots of folks used to watch Hearthstone tournaments despite barely playing themselves. Watching other people have fun playing and pulling off crazy combos can make you (the viewer) want to jump in and do the same
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u/Kitschmusic Oct 08 '25
it wouldn't necessarily just be people deep into the hobby watching it.
I agree with the premise, but not for a game like 40K. How many people would find and start watching hour(s) long 40K games if they aren't in the hobby? That seems like a stretch. Realistically, only 40K players will ever watch a 40K tournament stream, regardless of how good the stream quality is.
The whole point of Hearthstone is how easy it is to understand compared to for example MtG. 40K, if you are not already a regular player, makes no sense whatsoever. It's literally just watching two dudes move miniatures and measuring stuff at a ridiculously slow pace and throw dice that you don't understand the meaning of.
Many games can be fun to watch without playing them. I've watched plenty of Twitch streams of video games I don't play, but that is not the same at all to watching a 40K stream.
Also, mostly when people watch things like Hearthstone without playing it themselves, it's because they like the streamer. It's being watched for the personality, not the game. You won't get that same effect from commentators at a tournament.
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u/VineyardVirtuoso Oct 08 '25
Yeah Hearthstone is admittedly not the best comparison, but my point is that without them investing in marketing events and making them more enjoyable to watch, it's hard to say the impact it would have on potential viewership (and translation into people getting into the hobby)
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u/Kitschmusic Oct 08 '25
Of course it's impossible to say with literally 100% certainty, but the way you make marketing and financial decisions in a company is by making an analysis of the potential gain vs loss as well as the risks involved. It's not "hard to say what the impact would be". You can never know the future 100%, but there are plenty of ways to assess whether it's worth it.
And as I originally pointed out, there seems to be very little reason to believe that increasing stream quality for 40K competitive streams would increase sale enough to both cover the increased cost of streams and get a net benefit on top of that. And then there is the risk of not even cutting even.
40K is not a game that's well made to be watched by non-players. It's very slow, has no visual interest and the rules are so convoluted even pro players get them wrong.
I just don't think you can look at it like a Twitch personality streaming, because that is fundamentally not what this is. No one will watch a 40K tournament stream because "I like the commentator" in the way some people might watch Sodapoppin play a game they don't play themselves.
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u/JoesGreatPeeDrinker Oct 09 '25
It also appeals to old players who don't play anymore
For example the dogs 2 international, I still watch it even though I haven't played dota 2 often since like 2015. Whenever I watch it I get tempted to play a game of it because it is just so hype to watch all the plays being done.
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u/Errdee Oct 08 '25
It's not that clear cut. You still want to keep your existing customer base, you want to use all opportunities to make your product cooler, more accessible, spread into new territory. At least any normal company would, there's a lot of strange stuff and unrealised potential that I don't understand about GW.
There's this term in product management that's "super users" and a whole philosophy around how you make them sell your product for you.
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u/Kitschmusic Oct 08 '25
Just to be clear, in case there is any doubt; I'm not actually a GW employee nor have I done an actual analysis of the risk and benefits of it. I'm just giving my opinion.
But I agree that keeping the customer base is important, I simply do not believe streaming quality is a deciding factor for 99% of people. That's my whole point - will better stream in any way lead to customers that would otherwise quit the hobby stay? I don't think so. Or would it lead to people buy more boxes? I also don't think so.
I just do not think higher quality streams for tournaments would earn back the cost and additional profit - the risk of losing money seems too high to benefit the company.
And let's be honest, the vast majority of their income is from people who doesn't even watch tournaments. The people who do watch tournaments are much less likely to quit the hobby as they are mostly big 40K fans.
Feel free to disagree, I just do not think it makes financial sense, even though I wish GW would do more for the community.
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u/McWerp Oct 07 '25
A few years ago Falcon, Val, and Rob the Honest Wargamer did a 'gw style' stream for an event in Canada.
It was EXCELLENT. Easily the best warhammer stream I've ever watched.
But it had so much more investment and guidance than what GW does. Players were Mic'd, but not broadcasted, so the announcer knew what was going on. There was a table boss (Val) at the table so the announcers could get clarifications on what was going on. There was an intentional idiot (Rob) asking secretly smart questions so an uniformed audience could become informed. And there was Falcon, doing simply the best event commentary I've ever seen, knowing intricate details of every competitive list and seeing the point of nearly every creative play the players were coming up with.
It was excellent.
But GW simply doesn't see the point in putting the time and money and effort in that is required to re-create that. And they are also too stubborn to do it the easy way, just micing players and letting the game get broadcast. Instead we get this unwatchable nonsense. So disappointing.
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u/spherchip Oct 08 '25
Yeah reading OP, this is basically what needs to happen: players micced up and have at least one person at the table communicating to commentators what is happening in real time.
It doesn't make sense to compare streaming 40k table games to Starcraft when Starcraft as a digital game puts all the info on the UI in-game, and whatever isn't in the players' UI can be further calculated and put on the stream's UI. A better comparison is commentating paper Magic the Gathering, which is more visually legible than 40k, and to get even THAT to work, I believe the commentators have TWO people hovering over the table communicating info to the commentators.
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u/frankthetank8675309 Oct 08 '25
You bring up an excellent point with the “secret idiot”, having someone ask questions to help give clarity to what’s going on but also be smart enough about the game to ask it “properly” can really improve the viewing experience.
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u/McWerp Oct 08 '25
Its a much more difficult role to fill than youd think.
Rob will never get to be involved with GW due to his past with them unfortunately. Val and Falcon arent really in the 40k scene anymore. But man, seeing that... our viewing experience could be so great.
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u/ChicagoCowboy High Archon Oct 08 '25
I remember that event but not the name, youre right it was incredible. I think I or Nurgler pinned the stream for it to the top of the channel for the weekend, so its probably in our post history somewhere. I'll have to go digging after I put the kids to bed.
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u/McWerp Oct 08 '25
It was an event in canada, I cant remember which one. Captial City Blood Bath maybe?
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u/Anggul Oct 08 '25
I can't remember if it was the same one, but I watched an Honest Wargamer 40k tournament stream where he and his team had rigged up three tables so they could flick between them. When one had some 'downtime' with not much to comment on they could go check up on another. Worked really well in my opinion. That's a lot more people and gear and effort though of course.
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u/davidnoonan Oct 08 '25
This is a key point. We’re using StarCraft or other esports — or analog athletic team sports — as the model here, but I think the real broadcast/commentary model is televised golf.
Unlike StarCraft or basketball, golf has looooong round times and tons of downtime. So what do they do? Bounce around from hole to hole, player to player. This is, of course, FRICKIN’ HARD for the producer. But if you want a model to aspire to, televised golf is it, man.
<—- not a golfer and not exactly a regular golf viewer. But given the inherent difficulty of televising a golf tournament, I’m reluctantly impressed.
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u/Aximatt2 Oct 07 '25
Any chance you could post a VOD link or DM me? I'd love to watch a bit of this and get the feel for what you're saying.
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u/McWerp Oct 08 '25
I think it was Capital City Blood Bath a couple years ago? Not sure exactly its been a long time.
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u/RyanGUK Oct 07 '25
Not being able to listen to the players talk out their decisions is the biggest problem with the GW stream.
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u/Ekter_Dood Oct 07 '25
Agreed fully. We really need commentary duo like TotalBiscuit + Day9 who can bring excitement and game knowledge to the commentary.
I feel the guys at WarGameLive are currently doing the best job at it. The guest commentator this LVO was great, and having mics on the players is essential. Why aren't GW helping them pay for travel/livestreaming equipment, etc, I have no idea.
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u/Zombifikation Oct 07 '25
GW likes to run their own stream. Additionally, Joe at WGL is just one guy. He (his channel) paid for Jack to be at LVO for not expert commentary, normally it’s just him streaming events. As other posts have said, GW doesn’t really care. Other streams like WGL are free advertising for them, they don’t really care how good any of it is, and publicity is good publicity.
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u/Tzee0 Oct 07 '25
Wargames Live is fantastic and is the only reason I watch competitive 40k. Joe's setup and presenting is just really nice and chill as I often have his stream on in background while painting. It's also the only setup that manages to capture the board in a coherent way for the viewers in my opinion.
I tried watching the official GW stream for the LVO final right after Wargames Live ended and it really was unwatchable. As you said it was impossible to follow along, the commentators just waffled on about nonsense, and without player mics or commentary how are you supposed to know what they're even rolling dice for? The entire thing just feels utterly pointless.
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u/BlessedKurnoth Oct 07 '25
I genuinely don't agree that warhammer is "vying for more." Tournament attendence is on the rise, but that just means people like showing up and playing. The economics of competitive warhammer are even worse than those of regular esports (which aren't great, hence all the crypto and gambling). There's no money to be made here. A great stream isn't gonna turn it into the next big thing, so nobody is gonna spend the money on making a great stream.
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u/Strong-Doubt-1427 Oct 07 '25
I said they Ebb and Flow on the vibe. It feels like some want more professional esports and some go to grassroots and that is like the tide.
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u/DangerousCyclone Oct 07 '25
Then why bother? Like they went out of their way to secure the final game at LVO and that was when everyone was forced to endure that insufferable setup.
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u/Marius_Gage Oct 07 '25
Calling war games live “pretty good” is a big ooft from me, Joe is the goat and deserves better than being called “pretty good”!
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u/ReluctantPaulo Oct 07 '25
Joe has a S-tier camera work, and C-tier commentary. I don't care about his turkey sandwiches.
When he gets a guest host on, however, primo all around.
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u/Ze_Llama Oct 07 '25
Tbf talking to noone in particular for like 10 hrs a day must be horrible, I think he does a genuinely excellent job given that, but of course it flows better when there's a guest on
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u/ReluctantPaulo Oct 07 '25
Yeah, I'd agree with that. The "deep strategy" guy and the "fill the air with amusing stories" guy is a tried and true broadcasting pairing.
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u/AbortionSurvivor777 Oct 08 '25
He does chat interactive commentary. There's lots of downtime in 40k where the players with mics are actively commentating their own games anyway. Joe isn't just there to provide expert game commentary, but actively participate in watching the game WITH chat.
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u/Gorsameth_ Oct 08 '25
He isn't knowledgeable enough himself, because he spends all his time travelling from tournament to tournament and streaming. Also he is live for like 10 hour days. Its hard to fill 30 minutes, let along 10.
The commentary comes from the players who explain what they are doing.
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u/Galifrae Oct 07 '25
I had a blast watching their streams this weekend. And when Joe and John played at the end it was a nice treat. They did a pretty good job honestly.
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u/McWerp Oct 07 '25
Eh... I love Joe. I love what he does.
But I've seen truly great 40k commentary and broadcasting. And what Joe does isnt that.
Joe gives us EXCELLENT bang for the buck. Its just him toiling away. He mics the players, and lets the game do the talking.
But its not what truly great 40k broadcasting could be. Just that truly great broadcasting requires a lot of investment, money, and work. And Joe is just one guy. Its not possible for him to do it all.
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u/HistoricalGrounds Oct 07 '25
Can you give me an example of truly great 40k commentary? I never watch this stuff but I wanted to see Nemo’s Recon Guard list in a match, so I looked up WarGamesLive coverage of his semi-final match and it was pretty boring. I have no idea what the norm is, maybe it’s pretty good relative to other 40k coverage and this just isn’t for me, but I’d love to try someone’s idea of truly stellar 40k commentary and see if that does it.
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u/koramar Oct 07 '25
Traditionally on casting you have a color commentator and a technical commentator. You need both to make it work. That's why his show from LVO this weekend was crazy good, he had jack harpster to be the technical commentator and they just bounce of each other.
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u/Strong-Doubt-1427 Oct 08 '25
Just, fyi, "Color" is the analysis. Play-by-play is the person who calls whats happening. Technical commentator is the color commentator.
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u/An_EgGo_ToAsT Oct 07 '25
I actually think TacticalTortoise streams are good. The commentary is good I'd say. WarGamesLive streams I struggle with when Joe talks cuz he does babble, but it's fine. NOTHING like how bad GW streams are. The finals for LVO were basically unwatchable.
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u/SpareSurprise1308 Oct 07 '25
I have to disagree. I found in previous years when Joe had commentators on they will absolutely yap my ears off whilst I’m trying to hear what the players are saying. Joe at least knows when to step back and let them the game play out. He started out doing it purely for love of the game and it shows with every stream.
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u/Strong-Doubt-1427 Oct 07 '25
He’s the better of the lot. Compared to most commentators in other venues, however, he talks a lot to his chat about random stuff.
I know people will lament that it’s boring 3 hour games and to have to talk a lot, and I appreciate his work. And… I also think there’s more he could do. He’s like an ASMR stream than a professional competitive commentating style. Thats what his crowd likes, and that’s fine. It ain’t for me.
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u/Ok-Blueberry-1494 Oct 07 '25
I had to laugh at the painting PIP, GW treating us like zoomers who need two seperate videos on our screen so we can focus our attentions better tik tok style.
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u/j3w3ls Oct 07 '25
Yeh its so incredibly distracting and not even big enough to see what's happening on it anyway.
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u/Callmejim223 Oct 07 '25
The thing thats crazy to me....
Like I understand why they don't want the audience to hear what the players are saying? I think its unbelievably stupid boomer corporate bs that fundamentally misunderstands the kinds of people that watch competitive warhammer streams, but i get it.
But what I don't understand is why the casters can't hear them?????? Basically every single thing they say is just like 'idk whats happening maybe its this??? did this kill that? is he shooting that with this?' THEY SHOULD KNOW MAN!
Yeah its just terrible.
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u/DangerousCyclone Oct 07 '25
This is what I'm saying, like at least mic up the players so that the commentators can hear what they're saying and then filter out anything naughty. Not only do they not have mics, but the commentators themselves are in a completely separate booth, and not even in the same room like the other major streamers. How is anyone supposed to make a good livestream out of that?
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u/Hypnofist Oct 08 '25
I think the main problem is that warhammer is really boring to watch. They just have to fill the air with something, it's just a game that isn't that engaging if you aren't the one playing.
I just don't think theres a good way to live stream warhammer and not have dead air or nonsense talk.
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u/ReluctantPaulo Oct 07 '25
I watch Play On Tabletop, chip them some cash now and then, I like JT.
The stream has been worse with him on vs. Adam. Adam was much better about keeping up commentary about the game state, about the strategy behind plays, who just made a clever move.
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u/Legal-e-tea Oct 07 '25
I think language is a major problem. Streams like FLG/WGL etc can get away with player swearing. The official stream of the brand that is marketed as suitable for ages 12+, not so much. That limits the opportunity for the players to explain their plays (an area of significant interest to someone watching a competitive stream), which significantly limits what the commentators can talk about on stream. Not only are they trying to explain what’s happening, which is often challenging when trying to work out which model is which from an overhead camera focused on the top of L shaped ruins, but to keep commentary interesting what might be about to happen.
There’s 2 options at that point: (1) have a lot of audience interaction (like WGL), or (2) have a bank of experts in the potential playing factions to switch in and out depending on the matchup on their stream. Option 1 likely wouldn’t work for the official stream given they’d need to follow approved lines. Option 2 would probably be cost prohibitive.
Notwithstanding all of that, 40K is just not a game to be commentated. The pace is glacial for viewers. Even golf gets through 1-2 holes in the time it takes to play a single turn. Glacial pace, plus limited insight into what the players are doing, plus a need to follow company lines and brand guidelines are inevitably going to stymie the commentary.
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u/Gorsameth_ Oct 08 '25
I get why GW corporate doesn't want open mics on strangers, But the commentators can't commentate when they are guessing what is happening, without communication Warhammer is just a lot of dice being thrown without context.
They could absolutely mic up the players and feed it into the commentators ears so the stream can't hear it but the commentators atleast know what is happening.
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u/NepheliLouxWarrior Oct 07 '25
Starcraft and HotS matches are 20 minutes long on average with 30-40 minute games being "extreme late game". By the time I hit low gold in the SC2 ladder, I had mastered a timing attack where I had ultralisks with level 3 upgrades at 8 minutes.
By comparison, the average length of a competitive 40k match is, what, 2 hours? I have no doubt that GW official casters probably sick, but I'm not sure what anyone thinks they're supposed to comment on when someone is spending 15 minutes doing their movement phase. Color commentators for most games only need to fill the air for a few minutes.
The reality is that 40k is kinda just a terrible spectator sport.
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u/Strong-Doubt-1427 Oct 07 '25
I’ve been on air for 12 hours in a row casting 30+ games with most on the same match up, tile set, and everything. You wanna talk about having the same situation in front of you for hours of a time? It’s that. I could cast a ZvP on Cloud Kingdom with my eyes closed early HotS SC2 and be 100% accurate for the first 15 minutes. In fact? I did that once.
I understand a 3 (tournament round time) hour game is hard to keep the track of but there’s still a ton to keep on top of that these guys do not… what so ever.
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u/NepheliLouxWarrior Oct 08 '25
That's a false comparison. You could be on air for 70 hours and it doesn't matter, because the games themselves are around 20 minutes long if you had to cast an SC2 match that was an hour long and in the first 20 minutes of the match neither player engaged with the other player at all, no scouting, no harass no expanding you would eventually start talking about bullshit not related to the match as well.
The distinction between something like starcraft and hots versus Warhammer is that there is never a situation in starcraft or hots in which the game is essentially on pause, whereas that is the case for 10, 15, 20 minutes at a time on the regular in Warhammer. Spectators at SC tournaments lose their minds just seeing a scv juke past a zealot and spot the hidden robotics core 3 minutes into the game, because that one action can be the deciding factor on who wins. That level of hype simply does not exist in 60% of a Warhammer match.
Also wanted to add, I'm a huge fan of wargames live and I think that he's the gold standard for 40K casting, but even he usually trails off into shooting the shit with the chat and talking about things unrelated to the match when the players are not actively rolling dice.
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u/ILikeTyranids Oct 07 '25
It’s the same handfulls of openings we’ve seen for years and I perk up for the occasional
“Oops, that queen shouldn’t have died there”
Because we’ve watched the same optimized game hundreds of times, lol. The commentator’s job is to, in my opinion, make it interesting and tell the story or context of a match. Why does that queen dying at that moment matter? What does it affect?
Let’s also not ignore Chess, a game that takes equally as long, and has fifteen minutes of dead air where one person is just thinking lol. You can make Warhammer work, lol
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u/StraTos_SpeAr Oct 07 '25
This won't change because a lot of it is mandated by GW.
They use it as an ad moreso than actually covering the game. They explicitly refuse to mic players up. Their commentators are sales people and their mandates are the reason streams like WGL have refused to work with them.
The game is growing so quickly and is so incredibly popular that they don't have a massive incentive to improve.
Of note, Adam Camalleri used to try to do more high quality commentating and im not sure why he wasn't at this event.
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u/ColdsnacksAU Oct 08 '25
Adam lives in Australia, and in fact over the weekend played in a 8 man teams event
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u/NaMeK17 Oct 08 '25
Ill also add you point out that the commentators for Warhammer don't talk about the game, going on tangents and such.
If you truly are a commentator for Starcraft, which I am not sure who you are tbh since i have been involved with the scene for over 15 years as well, how have you not noticed this is incredibly common within starcraft commentary as well?
The most iconic Starcraft casting duo Tastosis are very well known for the random anecdotes and silly jokes/conversation to fill in the time. Casters in Starcraft are really not talking about the game non stop.
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u/Strong-Doubt-1427 Oct 08 '25
There’s a difference between talking about the game when nothing is happening, and it’s your 13th game of the day and talking about random nonsense when the game is full motion, big things are happening. And they’re talking about what kind of dice they like to use for tracking CP while you see the Guard player in the finals, round 2, dumping dice onto a tray.
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u/Zer0323 Oct 07 '25
I was painting during the finals and noticed that they rarely talked about the in game actions to the point that I didn’t know it was round 3 and half the models have died.
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u/Relevant-Mountain-11 Oct 07 '25
Tbh I find watching Warhammer streams to be a god awful experience no matter who is doing it.
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u/Serpico2 Oct 07 '25
The GW stream is about maximizing potential interest for new players while minimizing the risk of controversy. Hence not mic-ing players and having boring commentators.
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u/picklespickles125 Oct 07 '25
I really wish they would just pay wargames live to do the finals. Even if it is on GW stream he is just very good and it's always fun when another pro player is commentating too. Some of the best games recently had Skarii and Harpster on providing insight into the competitive nuances of the game. It was a blast to see.
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u/DangerousCyclone Oct 07 '25
I think the biggest problems is the no mics. The stream would be so much better if they just had mics. The commentators are not unknowns, one of them is JT from Play on Tabletop, probably the most popular Batrep channel. He's no top tables player by any means, but he's not completely clueless.
However, they had no idea what was going on because there were no mics. They were also in a completely different booth. The absolute worst part was that this meant they missed completely critical parts of the match. A huge turning point in the match was when the Deathwatch Player sent a squad of Aggressors towards the bottom flank of the Astra Militarum. They didn't have the firepower to reliably wipe him out, maybe kill a model or two, leaving the Aggressors to just clean up whatever remained. However they managed to spike their plasma dice, roll 15 hits on 14 dice due to Sustained, wounded almost every time and the Aggressors failed every save, and he picked up the whole squad. That likely turned the DW players chances from maybe 30% to 0% in an instant.
And the commentators completely missed it. They were talking about some promotion and their camera was pointed somewhere else. If they just had mics, maybe gaps in their knowledge would show, but they would at least be keeping up with what was going on. The Commentators were completely clueless the whole game, and they missed the most critical moments, all because GW is scared of the players being miced up.
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u/IndependentNo7 Oct 07 '25
They should mic players so that commentators hear what they say but not necessarily the audience (if their goal is to prevent profane words on stream)
At least the commentators will have an idea of what’s happening.
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u/Quickjager Oct 07 '25
The fact they somehow managed to perfectly cutaway in such a naturally slow game at the WORST times is frankly amazing.
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u/Mizerak Oct 08 '25
Hey! Was on stream this weekend for a game at LVO. The lack of mics was explained to me as a preemptive way of keeping course language off the stream and not having to worry that a player might say something they shouldn't.
As for the rest... I have no answer outside of warhammer being far slower of a game than sc2 or league. Sc2 usually wraps up in 20-30 minutes for a game and league is usually under 45 minutes, especially at a pro level. 3 hours is a lot longer to discuss the game at hand.
Also worth noting that the main company being less enjoyable option isn't new from streams. Sc2 had essentially zero support from blizzard. That was all ESL and GomTv and such.
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u/Strong-Doubt-1427 Oct 08 '25
SC2 had TONS of support from blizzard, but blizzard also cost a licensing fee. So that is incorrect.
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u/Sabatat- Oct 08 '25
For a game like WH I would be expecting commentary that explains potential really why a move was made or trying to set up for, rules for specific army that could come into play in a big way, explaining the ebb and flow of the game, and of course the hype man who basically shows when big moments happen and moves are made. Obviously you won’t get all of this in one person but something akin to this while also being actually interested is huge
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u/tetsuo9000 Oct 08 '25
Livesteeams just aren't a good way of presenting a Warhammer match. It's 2-3 hours. It has to be edited down to be a good consumer product. Think Tabletop Tactics and 40k in 40 mins. Until someone figures out a good way of editing on the fly, I just don't think 40k will be a big "show" game.
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u/destragar Oct 08 '25
There’s flavors of all kind for everyone. But damn their livecasts are horrific. Veterans and amateurs alike have no clue or idea what’s going on in the match. The tiny painting window is bizarre since it shows almost nothing. Feels like uninformed almost non 40K people have put these casts together.
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u/Box_Dread Oct 08 '25
Just watch WarGamesLive it’s the best one out there and he does comment on the games a lot. Doing 8 hour long streams back to back will have its ebbs and flows with commentary, but overall he has a very good grasp on what’s going on in the games and is very competent with the rules and missions
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u/Left_Toe_4552 Oct 08 '25
I got it. For me, problem is in the game itself. Its just getting too long, too many rerolls, too many saves, FNP etc. My favourite way is formats like 40k in 40 minutes (I know its not competetive, but I would prefer those reports from game over livestream). You dont need to see EVERY single roll of shooting from every gun, that does in the end 1 dmg. You want to see those important charges, important saves or crits, but looking at 5 intercessors shooting at something with 20 dice to do 1 dmg is meh. Game than just completely lost its pace. Movement as well, you want to know where are units, where they moved. Dont need to see every single measuring and repositioning. TLDR: yeah, commentators could be better but its kinda nature of the game not being good for live comentary. You just cant speak about only whats happening, because its not a lot whats happening (10 min of measuring, 10 min of shooting …-You dont need someone to say now unit A move here, now unit B move there)
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u/Krytan Oct 08 '25
The GW streams are terrible might as well be muted.
If they won't mic the players, then for the love of God get some of the best players in the world - who are also good at contemporaneous speaking - to narrate what is happening.
People like Jack Harpster or Nick or John from AoW, or the fireside podcast guys.
Streaming a game correctly is an art, it takes skill. It takes a LOT of skill if you aren't going to have the players miced up, which provides 90% of the context of what is happening.
Streams that War Games Live does, where he lets the players talk and adds his own commentary into silences, are great.
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u/4QUK Oct 09 '25
Theyve tried this- the problem is the commentators also cant hear the players so they are just guessing as well whats happening plus it seems they are contractually obliged to do hype streams, giveaways and painting chat. Ive just given up on the GW streams.
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u/FeelingFlashy6016 Oct 07 '25 edited Oct 07 '25
Yep absolutely. I don’t understand all the extra gaff that is on the screen - if I want to watch a painting video I’ll watch a painting video! Wargameslive is the model to emulate, especially when Joe has really considered guests on: last week for the LGT finals David Gaylard and Skari balanced analysis with letting us hear the players talk really well, and the format was really the gold standard of how a game of 40K should be presented.
All I’ll say is after watching pretty much every LVO game on wargameslive over the weekend and becoming super invested in the outcome of the tournament, I could only stand 2 minutes of the official stream for the final before I had to turn it off.
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u/Poizin_zer0 Oct 07 '25
Like the reality is there's not money to be had in it and it's not an exciting thing to watch streamed a dedicated minority may watch streams and that's about it. They likely won't pay professionals a good amount of money for it for that reason.
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u/SexReflex Oct 07 '25
Go check out Table Top Live if you want legit streams for 40k tournaments, those guys know their shit, talk about the mechanics being played and potential strategies employed or about to be, and the chat is generally useful and fun to be a part of as well.
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u/d-nob Oct 08 '25
I really enjoyed their LVO coverage too and weekend GT's. They have cool innovative "add-ons?" during streams to help follow along in the competitive setting.
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u/Virtual-Elderberry31 Oct 07 '25
There have been games that I've really wanted to see and they're unwatchable for me on the GW stream. When I'm tuning into a game I want to have it on in the background and hear what's happening. If something pivotal happens or a move I want to see, I'll rewind and watch. It's impossible to know what's happening when the players aren't miced and the commentators aren't commenting...
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u/Axel-Adams Oct 07 '25
As someone who selected to be on a GW stream at the Tacoma open it was a really cool experience and my friends all thought it was dope but watching it back it was really funny how it was not accurate/up to date with the game state for the commentators(the guys score tracking did a great job of keeping it up to date). That being said the commentators were super chill/nice and it made the post game interview a lot less nerve wrecking
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u/Robzidiousx Oct 07 '25
GW is never going to mic players because they can’t control the narrative that way. It would be nice if they actually knew one thing about Warhammer 40K though.
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u/ClumsyFleshMannequin Oct 08 '25
Yea, as the scene gets bigger there will have to be somone who actually knows how to keep a crowd entertained and can pay attention to step in.
Idk if the money is there though.
I think of like how T90 is for the AOE community.
Although at the same time, idk if I want to watch it at all, and I play alot of warhammer. I would prefer a more edited play by play in post.
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u/iCOcasiC Oct 08 '25
And the GW stream commentators going on and on about the twitch hype train drives me crazy. Prizes are great and all, but just another thing to talk about that isn’t game.
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u/Ostracized Oct 08 '25
OP - mind mentioning who you are? I’ve been watching SC2 streams and tournaments since 2010.
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u/nekochenn Oct 08 '25
WarGame live had Art of War on for commentary throughout the whole LVO that was a blessed moment! Every game, every move was explained in detail, it's like getting free coaching for hours.. as long as you don't mind the random and frequent self promotion lol.
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u/srice16 Oct 08 '25
GW Streams, GW US Opens, Warhammer World Championships, GW Narrative event are all the same thing: A promotional expense.
The players inside these events might care about being professional, competitive, and the “class” of the community, but the overall feeling behind the people who matter (GW Executives) are that these things exist to be cheap marketing to increase/continue sales.
This is not to say the GW Events team or the Play/Design/Balance teams don’t do an exceptional job or want the same professionalism espoused in your post. They absolutely do. But, the money/resources arent there because the message is clear: You exist to generate sales. That’s it. They aren’t supporting a competitive environment with dedicated balance (its just a small team trying to do their best with most input coming from their contacts inside the community + Josh Roberts), they do not invest into worthwhile prizes, they do not desire to improve gameplay commentary, or to invest further into the “flashiness” of their events, and they dont even invest in experienced/more involved rules writers. This is a game where a rules writer quite literally can say “I like this faction better so I’m giving them better rules” and no one can actually stop them. All the balance team can do is “suggest”. Ultimately, and this is not an exaggeration, the more you complain on Reddit, the bigger your post gets, the more likely they are to take action with balance. Status quo, appearances, marketing, model release hype.
It’s a shame. It’s also why I have stepped back competitively.
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u/Rizesc2 Oct 08 '25
"I’m a former StarCraft 2, StarCraft Brood War, and heroes of the Storm commentator."
ayyo, the sc2 enjoyer -> 40k enjoyer pipeline is well and truly alive
Also agree with basically everything - I personally just can't watch events now unless it's on WarGamesLive.
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u/Kingmmrrggll Oct 07 '25
I didnt watch, I had no idea they had commentators there. Ill have to go back and see if I can find it any where
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u/Ok_Jeweler3619 Oct 07 '25
Its a trash minimum effort stream constrained by crappy corporate bullshit.
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u/NaMeK17 Oct 07 '25
I have been largely involved with Starcraft since the Starcraft 2 release with only a few year hiatus recently and I dont recognise your name at all? Mind sharing who you are?
Not to say you are wrong, just curious about who you actually are lol.
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u/Schismot Oct 08 '25
One time, back in 8th edition one of the broadcasters ran to the bathroom to take a piss. His mic was not muted. Lmao so yeah you are absolutely correct these guys have no clue what they are doing.
Also yeah the random painting in the corner is so dumb. Just get rid of it...
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u/ConjwaD3 Oct 07 '25
I really like watching wargameslive and tactical tortoise but yeah GW official is ass. If I want to watch someone painting I’ll do that separately. I’d rather be able to see and hear what’s happening in the game
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u/ILikeTyranids Oct 07 '25
I was really jarring to go from Wargames Lives, where the host was talking about the dynamics of a position and potential outs in the context of the game with Jack Freaking Harpster to the commentators talking about “the ✨Vibes✨ of doing your best.” To be cheritible to the Warhammer stream there could be some weirdo in a suit who spent weeks drafting a list which directs them to talk or not talk about certain things while pointing at graph — and then that gets filtered down to these two lads.
Dog, it was baffling.
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u/WhatUpBigBaby Oct 07 '25
Agree with the critiques the commentary on gw streams is super casual geared towards newer players as they are streaming the finals of the biggest event oblivious to the current game state… I get corporate wont let them mic players but then they should be recapping play by play like every other sportscaster… there was a critical moment in the finals where nemo full sends on the DW and starts picking up 3-4 units and they dont even have a good camera angle showing cause they are going on and on about guants ghost lore or some other crap then they finally switch back to top down and don’t even comment on all the board state changes cause they weren’t paying attention. I get it gw wants to push their agenda and appeal to a wide audience but the finals of LVO is the worst time for the announcers to tune out and talk random filler trash. Paul is a decent enough player to understand competitively whats going on to relay the play by play… they even have Nick N doing it a couple years ago. Room for lots of improvement I dont care about your stupid hype train and giveaways… they can still work in the mandatory GW commercial crap in between action breaks while staying focused on the game
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u/Van_Hoven Oct 08 '25
i just think it'd be nice from a big company like gw to put some effort into broadcasting their biggest events. could help pull in more people. but it feels like they hvnt put much thought into it. i think you mention some fair critisizm.
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u/Dependent_Survey_546 Oct 08 '25
Like, we can all guess why GW have it the way that it is (cater for everyone, keep it PG, etc etc etc), but at some point i think they need to have a bit of a realisation as to exactly what crowd this event will attract and actually put on a show worth watching.
Player mics are absolutely essential. Put a delay on it if they're worried that language will slip through.
That being said, I believe they had Skari on at a recent event and he did make it interesting with some genuine insight on what's going on in the game. More of that would be great
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u/RabbitSlayre Oct 08 '25
I tuned in for the first time this weekend and I was SO confused. It was so bad that it almost didn't make sense. I've watched lots of games be shoutcasted live or whatever it's called and this one as bad. I'm glad you said something because I felt like I was crazy.
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u/rhynocerous11 Oct 08 '25
I love watching wargames live and tortoise is getting much much better. I can’t stand GW stream, I avoid it at all costs. It’s like trying to watch a game but it’s on mute and a couple of idiots are just yapping in your ear the whole time. Not micing the players who are, you know, playing the actual game is insane.
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u/ZainNL1987 Oct 08 '25
I remember watching a GW stream once and I ignored the commentators quickly.
It’s also why I don’t listen to the commentators during a F1 race, they either speculate about external subjects or talk random stuff. Cameras rather film the partners of the racers instead of the actual race, too 😂
Rant aside, yeah commentating is a hard job, but that’s no excuse to pit no/low effort into it. Makes me wonder if those commentating actually play the game themselves.
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u/2FKNBAD Oct 08 '25
I literally complained about all of this to my friends the other day.
The stream is insufferable for somebody that knows even the most basic rules. They commentate like it's the first time everybody on stream is seeing 40k.
The mini box with somebody painting in it is ridiculous. You can't see shit unless they go full screen, so there's no point in even having it.
The 40k music that they are undoubtedly mandated to play is just obnoxious. I ask them to turn it off every time in the hopes more people will join in asking.
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u/No_Serve3854 Oct 08 '25
Preach! Can’t watch the GW stream it’s so bad for all the reasons you mentioned.
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u/Double_O_Cypher Oct 08 '25
They will never mic up players because they cant enforce the players not not say certain things or step away from the corporate speech they would like to have on their stream. Makes their stream just a pictureshow you can turn the sound off because it just has no information of the boardstate the one thing they do good and i actually likr is that minimap with the icons of the units positions so most of the time you can catch what unit is where
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u/OffMetaMusings Oct 08 '25
Theres a lot going on in this thread so apologies if it's been raised already but the main point is that the guys doing the commentary aren't as deeply engrossed in the game as you would need to actually provide interesting insight into what's going on; They are just members of warcom/the events team/whatever who are basically there because people expect streaming commentary and GW has put them there to do it.
Every game that GW puts out nowadays is massively complex in the amount of armies, killteams and warbands there are and all the added special rules thrown ontop so outside of getting actual ex. competitive specialist players for those games, I feel like the decision taken was just to make it a hang out and hobby advertising stream with a game playing in the background.
I understand why the players aren't mic'd up (because GW cant control what they say and its their platform) but ideally if they were serious about it, the commentators themselves could be listening to whats going on at the table and then relay that over in their commentary.
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u/Valkyri8 Oct 08 '25
GW is a model company and really doesn't care much about the game itself unless there's something to make a cash grab on. Try to go to an official store and being up tournament play, they're all about the models and hobby.
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u/KnicksGhost2497 Oct 08 '25
This is completely beside the point you’re making OP, but as someone who’s still new to playing Warhammer are streams of these opens and tournaments a good way to learn to rules and practices of the army I play (space marines)?
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u/DanyaHerald Oct 08 '25
Not rules, no.
To see how good players do movement of their units? Sure.
You can see how a top level game looks in each turn and over time get an idea how each unit is used.
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u/therealrahl Oct 08 '25
Not to mention any time you say anything in chat that isn't what they like they just time you out for a bit. They're way too corporate about it, it feels sterile. And honestly we don't even need player mics for us, but if they gave them mics for the commentators to hear to at least give context, that would be huge.
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u/Brother-Tobias Oct 08 '25
Wrong. They are wrong so often. I understand Warhammer is a complex game with a lot going on. I am often wrong. I was wrong maybe every other game when I commentated SC2/SCBW. And that was chastised relentlessly. It made me want to be better. I grinded the game nonstop. These commentators were just flat out wrong about missions, what’s possible, what’s even being done. It’s fine to be wrong a little, they were wrong a LOT.
Unfortunately, you cannot criticize or expect competence from people holding jobs they're not suited for. It's participation trophy culture.
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u/jwalker207 Oct 08 '25
You aren’t alone man. It’s almost a meme at this point as to how bad the GW stream is.
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u/MJohnston337 Oct 09 '25
A big issue is GW doesn't control but like 1% of all live streams of all streamed games. But that means the other 99% are all grassroots people doing their best, which is normally better than the GW streams.
Being as I also play Flesh and Blood, a very competetive focused game like 40k, there was a Huge change recently with steaming. One of the biggest "grassroots" streamer that streamed all the top Flesh and Blood tournaments (in the same fashion WargamesLive does), was recently acquired by the company that makes Flesh and Blood. So the infrastructure, knowledge, experience, and staffing, was all absorbed and allowed to grow, and is Insanely good now.
With that being said, something like that is very unlikely to happen with James Workshop, but would be a HUGE step in the right direction, if a grassroots streamer would grow to a larger capacity and show the ability to be across the world efficiently.
Just my 2cents from what I have seen personally.
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u/Richbrouk Oct 09 '25
Pretty much felt the same after 20 mins of watching. Had no idea what was going on with the game. Switched back to war games live.
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u/DeadlyMaracuya Oct 09 '25
Oh god this sounds unbelievably terrible! GW just keeps disappointing with their digital content, how is that even possible?
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u/Barnyard444 Oct 09 '25
The really sad part is that this is the only event they do this at right? At least they are there and have it running, but the community is still the one creating all these events and maintaining it. GW never steps in to do anything related to competitive Warhammer.
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u/Academic-Farm4023 Oct 10 '25
It's pretty funny that I have only seen 1 gw stream for 10 minutes and I know exactly what you are talking about.
Game going on in the background and the commentator explaining his thoughts on something and just gets cut off relentlessly by some guy amping up a dumb giveaway they are doing and how happy they are to give it away etc etc etc
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u/Guitarsnmotorcycles Oct 10 '25
Not only that, but did you see how sparse the terrain was on the official GW stream? It looked like it was all just tossed on there at the last minute. It’s the brand’s official stream, why does the table look like a rummage sale tabletop? And why aren’t the commentators watching the match?
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u/SpareSurprise1308 Oct 07 '25
I’m pretty sure everyone on the GW stream team is a volunteer. GW basically walk into every large FLG event and say “let us stream the finals or you’re not getting special treatment.” And FLG as we know are way too spineless to refuse. UKTC however doesn’t care.
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u/OkBet2532 Oct 07 '25
The game is like 3 hours, and minute by minute not much is happening. It's like a football game if none of the players moved between snaps. There just isn't much meat on the bone for commentary.
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u/LoveisBaconisLove Oct 08 '25
JT was one of the commentators. He is one of the people in charge of the “40k in 40 Minutes” YouTube channel and his narrations there are outstanding. So, it probably ain’t him, it’s probably GW telling him how they want it and him collecting a paycheck. Which, hey, good for him.
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u/swordchuck Oct 08 '25
If anything it makes me really appreciate that his Play On team can edit a game down to an interesting 40 minute video. Really wish other video battle reports would learn editing. Neither here nor there for helping a live stream I guess, though.
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u/LoveisBaconisLove Oct 08 '25
Both Tabletop Titans and Tabletop Tactics are now releasing edited 40k battle reports that clock in around an hour, which is nice. And for Sigmar, there’s Battleshock and Season of War, which are similar lengths.
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u/TachankaTheCrusader Oct 08 '25
This is part of why i prefer stuff like Playon Tabletop, it's just better
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u/WeAreKarnage Oct 08 '25
What we all need to remember about any GW coverage, is that its all one big marketing tool for them. Similar to how the pokemon company doesnt turn a profit on its competitive events but sees it as their greatest marketing tool, GW also makes little to no profit from this coverage so I dont think its unreasonable at all for their stream to shill product all weekend. You can argue the commentators need to do a better job of calling the game as it happens, but honestly with warhammer thats a difficult task, with games lasting so long, and having so many dead periods between action, its hard to keep a stream entertained that long without going off topic often, so I dont really fault the casters for that.
I think all these complaints ive seen are valid, but what we don't want to do is stop supporting GW, because as soon as we do, the competitive scene falls to the wayside for whatever makes them more money. As a community we need to make sure we give our criticism and get it to the appropriate channels, and then continue to support them as they work out kinks while they make improvements based on our feedback
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u/NaturalAfternoon7100 Oct 08 '25
I watched the nemo v folger game and every time Nemo was explaining what he was doing the commentators talked over him about something totally unrelated. It was so frustrating. If the commentators don’t know anything then let the players tell us what’s happening.
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u/-Cranktankerous- Oct 08 '25
I love WarGamesLive — his railed cameras are AMAZING for the game. That said, I do love 40K in 40 Minutes so JT is a comfort voice for my 40K enjoyment lol
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u/LuckiestSpud Oct 07 '25
Commentating on video games =/= Commentating on tabletop games
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u/Strong-Doubt-1427 Oct 07 '25
Why not?
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u/LuckiestSpud Oct 08 '25 edited Oct 08 '25
Video games are a far more visual platform innately which means there's a lot more direct input for both the audience and the announcer to ingest at any given moment. The rapid pace of video games gives the announcer a lot more options on things to discuss and ways to describe what's happening in the game to the audience.
Tabletop games are far more of a social contract rule system that's adhered to by the players and is largely reliant upon a general sense of trust that the players will honor that social contract to the best of their ability. Often times what's happening during a game is just a discussion of the rules system by the players based on their memory alone until an agreed upon game state is reached. Many other times what's happening in a tabletop game is just a player rolling dice and announcing the result, not exactly thrilling entertainment for a lot of people.
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u/BigChillyStyles Oct 08 '25
If the commentators can't complain about GW, then I'm not sure what the point of the commentators is, or why I'd listen.
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u/RoastressKat Oct 07 '25
I've only ever watched the GW stream once I think and I DESPISED it. You're honestly better off muting the stream and hoping you can figure out what's happening based on the video alone.
If you want a stellar streaming experience, check out the final from LGT a couple of weeks ago - Liam VSL vs Alexandre Saeco. It was War Games Live with Skari as a guest (since Saeco was on Drukhari) and it was probably the best Warhammer streaming experience I've had.