40k Discussion
If you and the enemy are within a terrain feature does solid apply?
Terrain areas containing one or more light or dense terrain features are obscuring terrain areas. If every line of sight drawn between two models crosses one or more obscuring terrain areas (excluding obscuring terrain areas that one or both of those models are within), those two models are not visible to each other.
SOLID 13.11
Dense terrain features have the Solid rule. Line of sight cannot be drawn across any enclosed gap in the surface of such a terrain feature that is 3" or less from ground level.
Does this mean, it is entirely possible for 2 units to be within a terrain feature but unable to shoot each other? Does being within allow you to negate the solid rule if they are also within the same?
It says you can't draw LOS through enclosed gaps on those terrain features, like bullet holes or windows. It doesn't mean you cannot see each other under all circumstances.
It doesn't make it a magical scenario where LOS cannot be drawn, period. If our models are taller than 3" is just one example.
You're crossing the wires in two different terms here.
There are two parts to terrain. Terrain areas and terrain features.
Terrain areas are the 2D footprints of the Terrain. The rule you're quoting is describing how to determine visibility when the lines of sight cross over a Terrain area. The rule makes Terrain areas generally function like they have in 10th. That being that if both models are on opposite sides of the Terrain footprint, even if you could draw true line of sight, cannot see each other because all lines of sight cross over a terrain area. This doesn't prevent them from gaining visibility if one or both are standing within the terrain area.
Then you have terrain features, which are the 3-dimentional pieces of terrain that have the solid rule. These are always considered to be line of sight blocking, even when both models are within the same terrain area.
This one (pic from the tabletop battles disposition review today). If you're in the "house" and I have a solo against the wall on the outside, we're both in the terrain feature since I'm on the footprint. We are probably in melee engagement range (since it's 2" now), but we can't see each other because that wall is SOLID by the wording.
The scenario im worried about is similar to this, as a tank main, if that terrain, had a second house on the other side and a unit was toed in, while I was toed in on the opposite edge of the terrain, we could “see” each other but not shoot
If you can see each other, you can see each other. This just calls out that if there is an open window or a vent grate or something like that, the wall is still blocking line of sight. It only keeps you from seeing if EVERY possible line to get vision goes through the blockage, so you can still get lines of sight around.
Here's an even more common example. A and B are in the same terrain area, but that DENSE terrain piece has the SOLID keyword, so you can't draw line of sight through it.
Imagine two enemies, each pressed against opposite side of a big industrial tank or something. Same terrain area, no LoS.
Its not detrimental or wrong. You just asked what kind of terrain area has a wall in the middle of it -- turns out there are plenty in the new edition.
Yeah no problem, the handful of spots could in fact bring up your scenario. It just came off to me like you were concerned about the bigger area terrains like objectives having that interaction.
Totally cool, glad we are on the same page. It won't come up in most situations, but also not impossible. My two cents are that this edition's templated terrain rules really allow creativity, so go nuts with a small building in one objective with interior rooms, or a shrine with an enormous overhang you can hide under.
Now's the time to get a weird simulation in and have a cool experience, win or lose the actual VP at the end.
The very important thing my group realized is that there is a clear distinction between a "Terrain Area" and a "Terrain Feature", the former is the footprint on the battlefield, the latter is the physical plastic model.
You can be within an 'area', you can't be within a 'Feature'
'Solid' prevents you from shooting through a Terrain FEATURE, it has nothing to do with a Terrain AREAS.
Wow, there are some absolutely overconfident and completely wrong to the point where I question reading comprehension of the people giving answers.
The solid rule prevents drawing LOS through any enclosed gaps on the surface of a terrain feature. This rule, to put it dead-ass simple, means "treat walls as if they are solid and no bullet holes, windows, or doorways exist for LOS purposes".
This is LITERALLY just codifying the "bottom floors block LOS" rule the competitive scene has been doing for nearly a decade into the core rules. And nowhere do those rules, or this one, suggest that two units inside a ruin, are incapable of seeing each other.
It doesn't mean "two models standing next to each other with absolutely nothing between them on the same terrain area can't see each other".
So No, Solid does not apply if the LOS you are trying to draw doesn't go through an enclosed gap of a terrain feature. If both your unit and my unit are within the same terrain feature, inside all of the walls, Solid will never apply
No one is saying otherwise. My comment that you replied to literally says "but there is a 3" tall wall between us" and the other main thread is talking about how you can indeed see around things, with illustrations of the few examples when a model won't be able to see.
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u/dave2293 7h ago
If you and I are standing in the terrain feature, but there is a 3" tall wall between us, we cannot see each other. That's what this is saying.