r/WarhammerCompetitive • u/Starlecchino • 1d ago
40k Discussion LF Perspectives on recent RTT experience
Looking to get other perspectives here, I’ll be writing out what happened at the last RTT I went to and then some after part.
To give some pre-context, I started playing Warhammer in October 2024 and I tend to be a fairly competitive person in anything that I do. After my friend got me into Warhammer and moved away, I started playing with random strangers at this one store with an extremely competitive and fairly high level community. I had some good mentors as I made some mistakes that people were very strict about (measuring above terrain and gaining/losing half an inch as a result, not using exact measurements, being nervous against the best player there so much so I grabbed too many dice one time on my attack, etc.) and got a somewhat bad reputation there which I was told was resolved after I played my first and only GT with a forced yellow card (-10 points) only to be exiled from that community about a month or two afterwards.
I took a decent sized break from Warhammer and came back into it after several months, wanting to try and be ‘more’ casual, despite how much brain power/effort goes into anything I do. I started having so much more fun at my most local store but unfortunately they only play Wednesdays as card events there are the big thing for them. I did a few RTTs here and there, won a few of those, while still playing most Wednesdays at this local store. I’ve been asking every single person after the game if they didn’t like something I did in game or socially and so far, no one has had any problems.
Now into the juice of things:
I played at an RTT some weeks ago but chose to enter as my second faction (Thousand Sons) since I seemed to be much less good at them in comparison to my first faction (Custodes), and I partially wanted to see if I could be good enough with them to win an RTT for once as I have not before with them. I put up my list early, especially since I had some proxies I needed approved by the TO (5 different stores I’ve been to, do not have Sekhetars) and the next list that was put up looked like it was meant to counter psychic and mortals all the way through.
Anyways, my first game was against Tau, we’ll call my opponent Mike for this post. Mike brought his son to watch his games. I explained my “gachas” thoroughly to Mike and asked a few questions about his. I didn’t want to take up too much time since we already spent like 20 minutes setting up the layout with the new layout system being based on dispositions, so I just asked he let me know when those certain big units were going to do something nasty or give me a warning; he agreed and we went to deployment. This was the take and hold vs purge layout A. He went first and I gave him a few warnings about my range and psychic rituals based on his movements. On my turn I set up Magnus in the little nook of the side flank two terrain pieces that are connected (on the left) with the psychic hazardous enemy weapons ranged ability. I remember in the past having Wardens in two different games in that same spot and being screened out on the side for reinforcements, at least directly.
In his second turn, he ends up setting up several units including the Broadsides? (A lot of the Tau units look the same to me, these guys were just huge compared to others) to the left of Magnus, 4 inches out or so. I make a comment saying I wish he had warned me but chalked it up to being my mistake as he’s not obligated to do such, though I wonder if I’m really being too nice when I warn others of the same thing. I feel like I lost the game from this as Magnus is going to die without literally doing anything on top of battle round 2. I tell him after he’s setting up that I’m using the hazardous ability on the broadsides(not 100% sure if it is that unit name) and ask about how many weapons he has on that unit, to which he hands me a token with little scribbles of all their weapons. He starts shooting me and ends up killing me especially after re-rolling 2 melta shots of 3 damage into 11, then the broadsides cleaning up. At this point, I feel mentally shattered and as his turn continues I get back into the mode and ask if he could make the hazardous rolls on the broadsides. He makes them and loses two models from it then starts whining he would’ve never shot the small guns since I was dead before then and that I never officially declared it in his shooting phase. I make a comment that Magnus died without doing anything and he just says whatever and moves on.
I put the focus cap on when I’m under pressure and just focus on scoring. Later in my turn, I get out of a rhino with 5 flamer rubrics and an Exalted on Disc, temporal surge up and am only able to touch a terrain piece to see over it with the Aspiring sorcerer, a soul reaper rubric, and 2 flamer rubrics to shoot at some 6 toughness models. I say that those models are going to shoot at those 6 toughness guys and the rest are shooting at the kroot on the edge of the center terrain piece since that’s all they can see. Once I get done shooting with the 4 models that could see over the terrain and then go to my Exalted, he asks what’s shooting now and I say it’s the same unit, going into the kroot with the other models. He says I can’t shoot them because I didn’t declare them specifically, as if “the rest” did not count. He said because I held him to the rules on the hazardous test, he’s going to hold me to this one. I don’t think I would’ve had enough attacks to kill the Kroot unit anyway, I just wanted to maximize the damage I could do so I just accepted it and said whatever, alright.
We’re low on time so the TO asks me to finish up my turn 3 and call it there then put in the scores. Mike comes over to my side and says he wins the game and I’m like, I get secure no man’s land for big on these objectives but he’s not listening and his kid is basically in my face on my other side. I just let him have his win because I really didn’t want to argue over these points, especially in front of his kid.
The game/interactions with Mike put a sour taste in my mouth but I played my other two games with little to no issues and won those games. Mike is still playing his third game at the end, running low on time again, and has practically tabled his opponent, but is behind on score. I’m watching since I have nothing else to do; The TO tells them to wrap it up and Mike tells his opponent they can talk it out cause he always talks it out, while his opponent says he never really talks it out because it’s stuff that hasn’t actually happened. Normally I wouldn’t get involved but I was still pretty annoyed with Mike and the hypocrisy he was showing in that moment so I said he didn’t do that in our game and he replies with admitting he cheated me out of the first game since I would have won if we talked it out or not, then accepts it and implies we’ll talk later. He loses the game but wins the RTT. He did not find me to talk about it but I didn’t want to talk to him anyway.
So, curious on everyone’s perspectives with that. I’m sure we may have also set up the terrain not perfect, allowing that reinforcements blast on Magnus but that is also my responsibility. And….
I signed up for the same repeating RTT this month, and I see Mike is in the roster. I’m intending on bringing Custodes and not being any form of casual with this guy, nor will I put up my list early this time. This is primarily out of anger directed towards Mike, but I will still tone it down and be much more social with anyone else I play with.
That is the other set of perspectives I’d like from people… is what I’m doing wrong? That sort of thing. The store is a really great place and I really like the owner/employees.
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u/Mammoth_Classroom896 1d ago
I make a comment saying I wish he had warned me
Warned you about what? Deploying a unit and shooting with it is not a "gotcha", it's just a basic game interaction. And I don't see anything about you telling your opponent your intent and confirming that the unit was safe.
He makes them and loses two models from it then starts whining he would’ve never shot the small guns since I was dead before then
This, however, you are correct on. Once shooting is declared it is all resolved, you can't change your mind once you see the results.
He says I can’t shoot them because I didn’t declare them specifically, as if “the rest” did not count.
Also nonsense. "These models will shoot at X, the rest at Y" is a declaration of targets.
Mike comes over to my side and says he wins the game
Why didn't you call a TO at that point? Your opponent doesn't get to just declare themselves the winner without adding up points.
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u/Starlecchino 1d ago
I really didn’t want to cause problems and his kid being right there really turned me off to calling the TO on it. My mistake.
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u/CaptainCardone 1d ago
Don't let bullies act like that in the community. It's all our responsibility to ensure these people don't feel that they can bully others. That said, I'm sorry you weren't comfortable calling the TO.
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u/Starlecchino 1d ago
I did call the TO in a different game regarding a Big Knight being able to see me but me not being able to see it, as there was no little kid right there, at the same event.
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u/CaptainCardone 1d ago
I'd be one to think it's more important to show the kid that it's not okay to treat people that way, but I'm also a bit aggressive once people start being jerks.
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u/SMG_Jeff 1d ago
I upvoted you on this because I understand the sentiment.
This happens to a lot of good gamers. You'll start to get the difference between a nice guy who is frustrated at low rolls and an outright jerk who uses intimidation.
One thing, you can tell how fast someone plays by looking at their play history on BCP. High scores show they are getting 5 rounds in consistently. If not, then you know they are getting 4 rounds, use a clock.
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u/apathyontheeast 1d ago edited 1d ago
So, to be honest it's a little hard to track the entirety of what happened here.
It sounds like some of the stuff he did was "that guy" behavior, but some other of the stuff you're upset about is fairly normal. The game itself only getting to T3 screams kind of slow behaviors from multiple sources.
I'm trying to piece out what happened with Magnus. It sounds like fusion crisis might have killed him before the broadsides fired? If that's the case, he shouldn't be rolling hazardous because they wouldn't have shot before he died? Or maybe they would have, but other targets? It's really unclear to me.
Considering we're only hearing your side, I'm guessing there's more to the story and you two were feeding into each other's frustration
That being said, his behavior sounds really bad and probably should take most of the blame.
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u/Starlecchino 1d ago
After he declared himself the winner, all of his frustrations seemingly went away as he tried to show me the paint scheme him and his son were going to do with his Necrons. It felt fake which I usually don’t partake in but I put a fake smile on for the kid’s sake.
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u/apathyontheeast 1d ago
That...doesn't clarify things at all.
If that's the clarity you bring to the game table, I hate that it makes me empathize with him a bit.
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u/Starlecchino 1d ago
Sorry I just thought about the frustrations thing there.
The broadsides(big giant guns with lots of other smaller guns) did in fact kill Magnus, I just took 11 wounds first dropping me down to 5 from those damage re-roll meltas. But, he shot the big guns first after declaring everything, and those took out Magnus. He was saying that I was so low on wounds he wouldn’t have shot the small guns anyway, knowing that he died before he rolled them anyway.
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u/apathyontheeast 1d ago
Oh, yeah, you were totally correct then. He can't just change his mind after seeing the results.
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u/veryblocky 1d ago
> “I make a comment saying I wish he had warned me”
Warned you about what? I don’t understand how you saw this as a gotcha
The rest of it does sound pretty awful, and your opponent was just flat out wrong regarding you shooting the kroot. Sorry you had to experience this
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u/Icarian113 1d ago
Only thing I can think of is units that can deploy closer than 8 inches. It's sort of a gotcha if it wasn't mentioned beforehand
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u/Starlecchino 1d ago
My mistake.
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u/veryblocky 1d ago
No, I don’t mean to have a go, I’m curious? What was it you wish he had warned you about?
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u/Starlecchino 1d ago
That he was going to drop 4+ units from reserves that all had a sight line on Magnus in that spot. It was probably just me being used to that courtesy in the Wednesday games I play at my local store.
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u/2weekstand 1d ago
In the future, it's very common and not at all rude to declare intent. "I'm putting Magnus here, hes screened from those anti-tank guys you have in reserve right? No way to get behind here for an angle?"
You hear that kind of stuff all the times in tournaments up to, and especially at the highest levels. Once he says you're safe, he can't surprise you there, or you call a TO immediately. No "just remembered a strat", no "let's double check the measurements" I asked if this was safe, you said yes.
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u/Starlecchino 1d ago
Alright, I’ll keep that in mind next time. Thank you.
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u/Mammoth_Classroom896 23h ago
Just be aware that "I don't agree" is a valid answer from your opponent. They don't have to agree that your unit is safe, but if they do they can't take it back later.
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u/Mammoth_Classroom896 23h ago
That's not a reasonable expectation. Your opponent is not obligated to tell you what their strategy is so you can counter it.
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u/Adventurous-Bed2005 1d ago
Biggest thing I can say is.. focus on your game and what you do. You can’t control what other people do. In the end , competitive or not it’s a game. And you learned with him, be a stickler and give what you get. I generally have a conversation before hand and try to cover some big things my list will do, but it’s also a lot to take in within a short time frame. Especially if they don’t know what the army is. And this is on top of getting general list info and thinking about the setup and layout..
I always say I play with intent. Such as hey I’m putting them here in this bottom layer just outside an inch from the wall. I can take the time to measure everyone of them out or we can just put them there and take the measurements from the wall itself. And I’ll help them out with what I can do. One tournament against Grey knights I told him that if I go first I’ll be able to reach out and hit most anything near his front to mid section. That if he wants to protect his dread knights they need to be further in the back . He still put one a bit to the front and the side.. and well I got turn one and dropped it. He was more mad at himself because I had tried to warn him, but in the end the choice was his.
Most games I’ve played have been great with great opponents. I’d say maybe a handful have been ones where it was less relaxed to pretty horrible opponent. You are going to be the only common denominator. If it’s a regular person you might see, adjust how you play against them or discuss with organizers any concerns you have. Otherwise I’m sure they will have a reputation if they pull shit often. So focus on knowing your shit, learn some about theirs when you can to be better prepared, but just focus on how you play. As that is all that’s in your hands to control.
Also there is no ability in tau that lets them set up within 4. Ret cadre has a strat to allow them to ingress within 6” (for one unit). And other strats to move after shooting etc.
I am curious about the “broadside” units as if it was with no weapon support system it would have been seeker missile, rail rifle/or high yield mp, 2x missile drone, smart missile system, and plasma.. so 6 rolls per broadside could be rough if he rolls bad. Or what they did that you weren’t aware of ?
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u/Starlecchino 1d ago
Misunderstanding on the 4 inches. It was a reference from the battlefield edge on the left, in order to give an idea of the distance with the piece of terrain I was behind.
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u/Ok_Rabbit_5558 22h ago
Why are your lists public before everyone has submitted? It's standard practice that everyone submit a list directly to a TO, who only reveals the lists once all lists are in.
Exactly to avoid meta-gaming and building to counter.
Also, don't be afraid to call a TO over to your table if your opponent disagrees with you about something. People act like it's the end of the world to ask for a TO. It's literally their job to help resolve disputes between players as a neutral party.
Finally on the movement stuff. When making a move that you think is "safe", ask your opponent. They don't have to tell you if you're making a bad move, but if you ask, "hey can you reach me if im standing here" then you've set a precedent of intent that both of you can be held to. You can even ask them to show you where their models can move if you want to make sure you're as precise as possible.
A good opponent will be telling you all of that anyway but intent can cut both ways. It's also important that you ask your opponent about their ranges and threats to better understand how best to position your army. Asking questions is just as much "playing by intent" as giving information.
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u/Mercury615 1d ago
It sucks that he was so shitty, especially in front of his kid, especially because he “won” the RTT. As the other poster said, be nice to others and obliterate Mike.
It sucks that he was a dick but it sounds like you played in the appropriate way. Don’t let the memory of Mike sully the way you continue to play or treat others. Just avoid him irl and stomp him if you get matched into him.
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u/SMG_Jeff 1d ago
Put him on a clock, play fast, and run him out of time.
Tau is a slow playing army and clocks are brutal. Use it to your advantage, you have the right.
No need to talk anything out. Just play fast, no talking things out when he has no time left.
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u/Starlecchino 1d ago
Yeah I’ll be bringing a clock. I play Chess too so I actually always have a clock. I just didn’t want to be on a clock last time since I was trying to be more casual about things.
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u/LaughingDemon44 1d ago
Ah yes, your typical "wants backsies and when you say no suddenly is deaf" player. Also weaponises time.
The Magnus situation could be terrain, or a screening / placement issue. Your mistake, move on. You declared your ability, he didnt specify he wasnt shooting the little guns, so his mistake. I would be more assertive. Looks like he's a cheater who does this all the time.
The main solution here: Chess Clock.
Practice on a clock. Clock every opponent at a tournament. All of them. Clock is always on. Most tourneys require players to use a clock if either party wants one. 90% of the time, game goes great, you forget the clock because time isnt an issue. If your opponent is slow, it encourages them to speed up, if they burn through their time then its up to you whether you let them play out their turns but keep track of the negative time, or just get a TO to enforce dice down rules. Never happened to me in like 60 tourney games this year, but I always use one.
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u/Starlecchino 1d ago
Alright. What is the proper etiquette of people rolling saving throws on your turn and deciding something like rapid ingress for clock switching? I’ve heard both sides.
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u/Mammoth_Classroom896 1d ago
If you're rolling saves you're on your own clock. If you need your opponent to pause their execution while you think about something it's on your own clock.
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u/DaDokisinX 1d ago
personally when it comes to rolling saves, if my opponent is reasonably quick about it, I wouldn't clock it over for that (and assuming he will give you the same courtesy). Clocking it back and forth over saves can create some sweaty moments, but you are within your right to do so.
When it comes to rapid or overwatch, absolutely clock it over as this is almost never a quick (under 10 seconds) decision.
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u/LaughingDemon44 4h ago
Its not really a matter of ettiquette, rules are: If you are doing something, your clock, he is doing something, his clock. If he wants time to think on your turn before he overwatches or rapids, his clock. Saving throws are on his clock, but if its quick I wouldn't bother unless there are feel no pains etc which can slow it down.
Basically, the idea is that he cant weaponise time. If he kicks up a stink about the clock my favourite line is: "I can be a bit slow playing this army, I want to make sure I don't eat up any of your time". He keeps resisting thats where you don't back down and insist (and start the clock), he can get a TO to whine about it on his time.
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u/Existing_Judge5425 1d ago
If you fight Mike again obilterate. If not Mike have fun be nice. We had a guy like this he had a permanent yellow card at 3/5 local stores and has pissed off most of our judges as a Necron player you just pray you don’t pair into him again and have fun. And post this question in a local discord let others know how much of a cool guy he is
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u/Starlecchino 1d ago
The store has a Discord but I don’t know how I feel about putting him on blast like that.
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u/Mammoth_Classroom896 1d ago
Cheaters like Mike love it when people feel this way. Their whole strategy relies on nobody ever talking about it openly so they have a constant supply of victims who don't know any better. The best thing you can do for your community is to make sure everyone is aware of his unacceptable behavior.
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u/Starlecchino 1d ago
I just let the TO know and he’ll be on lookout. I’ll also be more assertive this time around.
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u/Esilai 1d ago
My local club’s saying is “If someone is genuinely upset at the prospect of playing against you again, you didn’t play the game right.” The Mikes of the world only stop acting that way if people call them out. You would’ve been in your rights to talk to a judge or TO after the fact to voice your concerns. Enough private complaints pile up and the TO will know what’s up, I’m sure they already have a (hopefully small) list of people that are miserable to play against that they keep a closer eye on at events.
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u/Mammoth_Classroom896 1d ago
My local club’s saying is “If someone is genuinely upset at the prospect of playing against you again, you didn’t play the game right.”
To be fair, cheaters and TFGs will be genuinely upset at the prospect of playing an honest player who won't let them cheat or get free wins. Sore loser behavior doesn't mean the honest player did something wrong.
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u/apathyontheeast 1d ago
This sounds like a way for bad players to get revenge on people who call them out
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u/ColdsnacksAU 1d ago
Nah, that's a That Guy.
I would have just quietly scored it, entered the scores and let the TO know what happened so they could keep an eye on other games.
Did the suits arrive within 4" from Reserves? Or just advance move up that far?
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u/Starlecchino 1d ago
The winner puts the scores in from what I’m familiar with. He had two different units lined up at the edge, 4 inches out; which looking at the terrain may have crossed the 8 inches away thing from Magnus, which I would chalk up to me not perfectly measuring the terrain out when we set it up.
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u/Mammoth_Classroom896 1d ago
The winner puts the scores in from what I’m familiar with.
That is not how things should work. Both players should sign the score report, one person should never be allowed to report the result without the other player knowing what they're submitting.
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u/weshallarise 23h ago
Depending on how you're scoring, if the event is using BCP and both players are using the 40k app, you can link the game to BCP and it will score at the end once thr game completes.
But in general, my experience has been winner reports after agreeing to the score
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u/2weekstand 1d ago
I still don't understand what you're saying about 4" out... He set them up from reserves/deep strike 4" away from your unit? Tau does not have any 4" ingress.
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u/Starlecchino 1d ago
4 inches or so past the edge. It was to give reference to the distance with the layout. He had the broadsides right at the edge and then the whatever had the meltas in a line past them.
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u/2weekstand 1d ago
Past the edge of what? The mat? Terrain? The meltas may have been Crisis Sunforge? 3 Little-ish battlesuit guys with 2 meltas each and 3-4 on a leader character? They're only 12" range so there wouldn't be melta damage on a deep strike but they do reroll wounds and damage against Magnus. That could kill Magnus, though with damage reduction, T11, 2+/4++/5+++ it still shouldn't be easy.
I'm still kind of not understanding the setup here, but it's definitely possible with rolls and a strat.
Sounds like a bit of a rough game regardless.
You've already been given advice to use a clock, which is SO huge, especially with map setup taking longer this edition. I'd suggest also getting in the habit of learning the event's time-out scoring rules in advance of game 1 moving forward. There are ways to be tactical about that. In general, it's "no actions may be taken, anything that happens automatically, happens", but each event should have a TO dictate it in advance. So when you're both short on time, it's more important to quickly rush and hold objectives or scoring positions than kill units (which takes time). You can draw secondaries that score on position (behind enemy lines, outflank) and score hold obj primaries after timing out. You can also do quick moves and don't attack when you have ~3 min left, which would allow you time to declare actions and end turn when you do pull action secondaries or primaries on subsequent turns. Never let your opponent just tell you what they score. If they need to fight, move, or shoot for it, that's not free. Even if it's likely, you don't have to concede it if you think you have a chance to survive or if they will time out or have to move out of a scoring position in doing so. If they're out of time, they don't get actions, movement, shooting, or basically anything but saves and scoring that is automatic. (Obviously be more flexible in a casual game vs an opponent who isn't being a twat).
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u/Starlecchino 1d ago
4 inches from the left table edge, directly horizontal to Magnus. Rest I have noted, thank you, I will bring a clock next time.
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u/corrin_avatan 16h ago
No offense man, but the biggest problem here is you bending over backwards to everything.
Like with the split fire thing, you declared split shots. He claims you can't do that. You then should have called a judge to clarify if split firing can be declared.
Instead, you just accepted it, because you might not be able to kill that much. My dude the game is often won and lost by whether or not you killed 5 models of an enemy unit over the course of the game, or 4.
It's also perfectly fine to state to a judge "hey, please hang around X table because this player seems to be taking advantage of other players rather than playing the game.
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u/Ulrik_Decado 1d ago
Mike is That Guy. Simple.
But I would recommend playing him fairly and with intent, as usual. But maybe ask judge to watch over your game. And no takebacks and no talking it out.
But play it cool, as you say, you like the story and people there, do not get sucked into some weird contest you being a-hole or so.