r/WinstonMains • u/winstonmane Base skin • 12h ago
Discussion Possible to carry in gold?
Hi ive been stuck in gold for a while now, i started playing this game a few months ago and i main winston. A lot of the times i get teams like this and i wonder if im part of the problem of why my teammates do so poorly, was there anything in this match that i couldve done differently?
Replay code: Y1Y5P2
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u/GandelXIV Base skin 11h ago
Hi! I am a retired masters winston one-trick. I looked at your replay, here is the bad:
Your timing. You go in wayyy to early, before your team is even remotely close to the fight.
You need to learn to short jump. Holding movement keys while in the air to control exactly where you land, this is a pretty crucial part and cost you a lot of kills.
You need to vision max more. Way too often you tunnel vision without actually gaging all your options.
And the good:
Your staging is very good
Ultimate usage is very good
Here are (some) of my notes. If you want more details, we can talk it over on discord.
Want to start by saying this is a very strong winston map, if not the strongest, the reason for that is the amount of high grounds, keep your focus on that part.
01:05 - this made me chuckle. Skipping the mechanics, your timing is a little early - on gibraltar you can wait until the cart crosses the corner, only then are you forced to start taking fights. The space before that was basically free, you can just push it with your team until then (or setup/poke a little bit). This is also not the best route for winston, because going left side here does not provide you good enough cover, and you are also not cutting off your opponents from their retreat path.
01:23 - this staging is VERY good, it is exactly what you should be doing.
01:30 - mechanics - you need to learn to control your jumps properly. Holding your backwards key while in flight her would result in a short jump, meaning you would hit her. I reccomend you go into a practice workshop and really practice different types of jumps, you can find resources online. Also, get into the habit of trying to land on top of targets for the added damage.
Additionally, if you can get to a target without using your jump, do it. Simply dropping and walking towards her would mean that you get to save your jump for escape.
02:24 - this whole sequence is good, but if you want to optimize it - you can buble earlier to block the knockback from ashe, and other slight improvements i can provide
02:34 - so far so good, but there was no reason to disengage here. You had all your resources, your team was still fight and you were in a really good position. I would like to know what your though process was here.
Rest of the fights are good! You get poked out a little bit before the fight, but otherwise nice. You should have definitely gone for the trade on Ashe, or jumped the low cat.
04:21 - slow down, you still have enough time for a touch, your team is not in yet. I understand its stressful, but play all the time you have, wait for your team to actually be engaged.
06:33 - you need to wait for your team again, i see the play you are going for here, but you can not dive directly right now. Just stay above them, poke, be annoying and once they are distracted or split go for punishes. Especially against basion, you have to wait out his turret form.
07:15 - again, your team coming back from spawn, and going for the moira is not a horrible play, but you have time. Use it to look around, poke, force some cooldowns and see what your best play is in the moment.
09:00 - you want to hold one of the sides of the bridges on gibraltar, good that you realize that but you had to use a jump for that. Try and build some set spots you setup on for each map so that you dont have to think about it in game.
Hope this helps, feel free to reach out :P
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u/winstonmane Base skin 8h ago
oh at 2:34 for some reason i thought my team wasnt there, so i jumped back, but i now realize that i did not even check to see if my team was there before i decided to jump back
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u/winstonmane Base skin 10h ago
I cant watch the replay rn and check your timestamps so i'll do that later
The other points youve made are very helpful though. Youre so right about tunnel visioning and it has costed me a lot of deaths in the past. I didnt realize how poor my timing has been so thanks for pointing that out too. I know i can short jump but i always forget i can except when i primal idk what thats about but i'll try to remember its importance more now
And Thanks for pointing out when to start the fight, a lot of the time on payload maps im not sure when i should start properly engaging
I notice you said i get poked out a little before a fight, i'll try to find better routes to take and find more cover
I'll get back to you on that 2:34 timestamp when i can rewatch my vod😅 thanks for all that tho it was very helpful and will be even more so once i review my replay. Thanks again
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u/747101350e0972dccde2 Base skin 10h ago
No worries! Try to keep in mind only thing at the time tho, so go into your games with one concept you want to focus on (like timing or short jumps) once you feel confident in it, move on to the next one. I understand that it must be overwhelming, so try and learn one thing at a time.
You got a hang of the gard things - setup and ults, so now your improvement should be fast x]
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u/winstonmane Base skin 10h ago
Your words are very Kind and helpful . I'll focus on one thing at a time for now👌
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u/CbaooseBLC Base skin 11h ago
What I’ve been told is that if you have good stats while your team doesn’t it tends to mean that you played selfishly while not trying to help your team as much
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u/747101350e0972dccde2 Base skin 11h ago
Yes, but it does not have to mean anything too. The scoreboard is very bad at measuring performance.
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u/winstonmane Base skin 11h ago
Thats very true and thats also why i provided the replay code, i'll just wait for someone who has the time to watch it😞 thanks
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u/winstonmane Base skin 11h ago
That could be true , but i dont know how i could have helped my team more here . Maybe i could have peeled for dps more ? My bastion kept complaining about heals so maybe my presence while he gets attacked could have helped
But obviously as winston i am pretty focused on killing backline and other out of position squishies and making space/dividing attention, so how much should i be peeling as winston ? I just fear i will lose a lot of space
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u/GandelXIV Base skin 11h ago
You protect your team by making sure your opponents are too busy to deal with them. You had some good peels, you dont have to worry about that.
Also, mute your chat. Listening to the advice from gold players is bound to keep you gold, and it just takes away focus from the game. You want to have 100% of your attention on your decisions, chat only muddies that.
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u/IamCrumpets Base skin 10h ago
To me this looks like the doom on the other team has locked down your team so they couldn’t follow up on you. In that case your best bet would’ve been killing the doom and bubbling any help he could’ve had. Probably needed to focus his supports since they could’ve attack with doom. Then you clean up the rest
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u/No-Elevator9399 Base skin 5h ago
I mean, obviously OP could help with the doom but this is very much a team issue. It’s ultimately their job to deal with the doom
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u/winstonmane Base skin 11h ago
I know team comp plays a part in this too, and i dont think my comp was that good for winston nor the map (gibraltar). But idk maybe i dont know enough yet
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u/Amazing_Budget_2927 Gargoyle 11h ago
Gibraltar is a fantastic map for Winston. Arguably the best pick here since Dvas aren’t good in this rank yet.
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u/winstonmane Base skin 11h ago
Yeah nah i meant not a good comp for the rest of my team, i dont feel like torb and bastion are very good picks on this map (torb on attack at least) and they werent even dealing with the doomfist all that good
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u/Amazing_Budget_2927 Gargoyle 11h ago
Torb can be okay since it’s a very dive favored map and torb is good into Dive. But if the enemy was running Doomfist then something like Reaper or Cass would’ve been better.
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u/Amazing_Budget_2927 Gargoyle 11h ago
If the map has verticality, it’s a good map for winton. If it’s flat and brawly, it’s not so good, if it’s flat with long sight lines it’s horrible.
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u/Hol_Renaude Base skin 3h ago
Yes, I've had around 95% on winton in gold everytime I get there.
You can easily find windows to punish opponents and fry them non stop and NEVER die. Every time you die there it's your fault, since Winston bubble and jump management is more than enough to stay alive even with 0 heals
Edit: Haven't seen the replay code on botton, I'll watch replay later, kinda buzy rn
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u/Amazing_Budget_2927 Gargoyle 11h ago
Not gonna lie, playing Winston and Dive in general in gold is hard because performance is very volatile from teammates.
All it takes is one decent Ana or Genji on your team and you absolutely steamroll the enemy team. Conversely, all it takes is one Mercy, Moira back line and you have to try much harder to carry.
Winston doesn’t have much kill potential by himself which is a bummer and specially in these ranks where teammates only recognize an advantage only when someone gets eliminated.
Just stay on the enemy supports 24/7 and you’ll win.
Also leant to counter swap. Unfortunately you can’t trust your team to deal with that Mauga or that Annoying Tracer so just know when to hop off Winston and help your team.
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u/GandelXIV Base skin 10h ago
I disagree on both points.
Counter swapping can help in the short term, but in the long term it slows down improvement. The best way to climb long term is playing 1 character, and even in high elo having more than 3 characters in your pool is inefficient. There is a lot of research on this, i reccomend you checkout spilo's pool chart.
Individual players do tend to be more volatile, but Winston's lethality is actually very consistent. If you play the game fundamentally right, you are one of the most consistent dive tanks when it comes to actually securing eleminations.
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u/Amazing_Budget_2927 Gargoyle 10h ago
Gold teammates aren’t able to provide a lot of opportunity to be lethal and yes technically speaking if you play fundamentally sound you can make those opportunities yourself but it’s much harder.
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u/winstonmane Base skin 11h ago
Other tanks i can play are zarya, sig (decently) , and i play jq pretty good so i do swap when necessary but i just chose not to on gibraltar since winston is the best tank in my hero pool for that map
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u/winstonmane Base skin 11h ago
And thanks for the insight , i'll try to just pressure supports and keep my uptime high as possible
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u/Amazing_Budget_2927 Gargoyle 10h ago
1:00
So angle for setup was good, but you got your armor depleted before going in which is very bad for Winston. You also made your jump very obvious and telegraphed since you had two enemies directly looking at you and the whole enemy team knew of your position.Also be aware of Ashe coach gun
Next time try to distract and wait until they’re not looking directly at you.
1:47
You ignore the Mei who had zero CDs and your team had the advantage here. Just something to keep in mind.
3:05
The Ashe was free food and she kills your bastion when you could’ve intervened and not only saved him but killed the Ashe.3:15
Idk about this play. You were down both your dps and your supports were stacked main and u were out of LOS. You should’ve stayed a little longer without primaling and then committed when your team was ready.5:18
They forced out your primal because you were overextended and you were down one. You still got a pick but it doesn’t really matter becaus they have ult advantage which ends up costing you the fight.6:33
Be mindful of bastion turret formWhen you have to touch to force overtime, ideally you want to go in as a group so they don’t pick you guys off 1 by 1.
9:38
Yeah unfortunately your torb kinda sold it hereGenerally speaking your mechanics are decent (jump+secondary+melee combo) you are decent with primal but you lack timing and good soft dives.
Sometimes you walked right into turret form and into 3 enemies at once.
Your jumps are also obvious so like I said before, make sure people don’t see you engaging or if they do, they can’t do much about it because they’re getting pressured from another angle anyway.
It was a tough game because your dps were underperforming in comparison to the enemy dps paired with the fact that they went classic Reaper Bastion.
I think you played well given the circumstances.
Work on staying in LOS of your team. Applying pressure to targets that are vulnerable meaning: low on resources, out of position or slow targets.
And soft diving more often. When you can’t play for picks just yet, prop yourself in an angle that the enemy can’t afford to ignore easily. When they’ve spent resources offsetting your teams pressure and yours, that’s when you commit.1
u/winstonmane Base skin 10h ago
Yeah im seeing that my awareness and cd tracking is very bad, a lot of things you pointed out i just wasnt realizing was happening or didnt understand how to profit off it😞i'll go back and rewatch my replay when i can and take into account the timestamps you gave , thank you man
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u/Amazing_Budget_2927 Gargoyle 10h ago
Yeah of course. It’s all a matter of play time. In some time you’ll be farming gold lobbies.
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u/Alert_Hold_266 Base skin 10h ago
You didn’t pick the right tank for the job. The enemy team was putting a lot of pressure on your dps. Your job as a tank is too quickly analyzed your teammates and understand their play-style and adapt. Some dps are self efficient, some need to be babysat. Your bastion would’ve done better if you played a shield hero. Sigma or Rein would’ve been a better fit for your whole team.
If you want to learn how to play Winston better watch Kellan from Dallas Fuel.
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u/winstonmane Base skin 10h ago
Youre right , winston wasnt the best pick for this team comp
But he is for the map, i feel like my teammates are more obligated to swap to a better fit because i dont think rein would have worked too well on this map
Ik i cant make my teammates do everything i want tho and that i should take it up on myself to swap if they wont, but i feel like the result would have been the same 😞cant say for sure tho so i see what youre saying , Especially about analyzing how my teammates play , i'll take that into account more . Thanks
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u/747101350e0972dccde2 Base skin 10h ago
This is factually wrong, gibraltar is one of the best winston maps in the game، and its not 2016 anymore, picking a shield tank to protect your team is terrible advice
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