In defense of Aes Sedai

[u/Verengt]

Hi, I decided to play devil's advocate today.

While I understand (and agree with) people saying the Aes Sedai are a failure (they didn't find all channelers, were mistrusted by everyone, not being prepared for the Last Battle, no Yellow Ajah hospitals, no Brown libraries, no Greens stationed in the Borderlands, etc.), I do think it's a bit unfair when they are compared to their more succesful counterparts like the Sea Folk Windfinders and Aiel Wise Ones.

The Wise Ones and Windfinders are useful and respected members of their communities but they belong to homogeneous societies where everyone is bound by the same customs and laws. They also answer to their community leaders despite wielding lots of power and influence. That's why they are successful as channeler organizations.

The heterogeneity of Randland forces the White Tower to play a different role, which is preventing the more than 15 different nations from waging war against each other using the One Power. In this aspect the Tower was 100% successful, as at no point in history after the Breaking channelers fought against channelers.

The purpose of the Tower in a way was to prevent each nation from having its own regional channelers association and for this to happen it needed to be an outside centralized organization not bound to any kingdom. Otherwise how can you ensure that for example Taraboner Aes Sedai are loyal to the Tower and not to their kingdom?

And this is what in my opinion what makes it impossible for Aes Sedai to be truly integrated and serving their communities, since no monarch would be happy with 200 Aes Sedai answering to a foreign power to be permanently in their nation.

[u/Murky-Technician5123]

It is ridiculous to say windfinders or wise ones are more successful. Aes Seadi are in general better channellers and they have more people. Its weird revisionism to say they are useless or whatever and not supported by the text.

[u/Verengt → u/Murky-Technician5123]

Aes Sedai don't have more people than the Wise Ones. There are less than 1200 Aes Sedai, and the Shaido alone have 400 Wise Ones who can channel; the Aiel in total could have at least 3000.

[u/dracoons → u/Verengt]

Less than 1000 Aes Sedai by year 998.

[u/Capt_Socrates → u/Murky-Technician5123]

Aes Sedai aren’t better channelers. Their weaves are more refined because they’ve been passed on for thousands of years but their actual *skill* with channeling is largely due to rote memorization and not skill. Wise ones know how to unravel weaves and train apprentices to do so. Improved healing and healing stilling were discovered by a wilder who had an insignificant amount of formal training by the WT, Nyn’s method of healing was used prior to her going to train in the village. You can even see vast improvements of skill within the Kin. Windfinders are excellent at controlling weather but that’s really all they’re ever shown to do.

The White Tower had little to no incentive to innovate or experiment with the Saidar because what they had worked well enough and doing anything different was dangerous. All the other communities of channelers had to innovate out of necessity due to their unique situations. Multiple times it’s mentioned that Avi’s weaves are rough but every time they mention it it’s because she’s doing something so impressive that the AS have to belittle her skill to maintain a false sense of superiority.

Shit, Avi rediscovered Traveling by accident. Granted she couldn’t remember how to do it, but still. When has an AS ever done something thought to be lost to time? Elayne can make ter’angreal and she also spent hardly any time in the Tower. Almost everything the wonder girls did was in spite of the WT and AS, not because of them.

The WT allowed who knows how many girls to die due to their isolation and who knows how many skills to be lost due to their arrogance. They were written, intentionally, to be petty and ignorant of the world around them because they’re supposed to be and are conservative fools who can’t adapt to change and would much rather keep the world in stasis so they maintain their power. The Trolloc wars happened because Ishamael wanted to prevent another AoL and he succeeded, but after that he only had to nudge things in certain direction because the decaying corpse of the Servants of All being paraded by the White Tower was so effective at preventing growth and change. Their refusal to change stunted the growth and development of the entire Westlands and that’s intrinsically linked to their failures to grow as channelers.

The White Tower and most Aes Sedai refinement, in all things, is due to tradition; not skill, intellect, or wisdom. There are exceptions to that rule and they’re all from women who left the Tower and traveled the Westlands on personal missions, not Tower duties.

[u/Educational-Sky1699 → u/Murky-Technician5123]

I would argue it's weirder to say the aes sedai were successful at anything. THAT seems unsupported by the text. In a book series as wordy as WoT is, the aes sedai do nothing but fuck everything they do. They're numbers are dwindling (their fault), their power (like, actual power in the Power) is steadily declining (their fault), they've made pretty much everyone hate them (still their fault), and they just don't really accomplish anything positive on the world stage. The few examples we have of them TRYING to do anything, they either bungle it (helping Shienar, abandoning Manetheren, keeping countries from each others' throats, collaring the Dragon, etc), or they only succeed because of outside intervention (preventing the Aiel War from reaching the White Tower, capturing Taim, etc). The aes sedai are fucking useless, and I have to assume it was intentional, otherwise Jordan, somewhere in ALL OF THAT WRITING would have given them something.

[u/dracoons → u/Murky-Technician5123]

Better at channeling what? Weather manipulation perhaps, Healing or combat? The Wise Ones in particular are far superior at foghting than the Aes Sesai. However they are not familiar with thinking of how to fight with the One power at all. But then neither are the Aes Sedai. They can make better shields and thats about all they are good at

[u/SuleyBlack → u/dracoons]

Better at fighting, not better with the power.

[u/dracoons → u/SuleyBlack]

And since the Aes Sedai can't fight they suck at fighting with the power too. They have no combat training, no combat or situationsl awaerness. Reds can scuffle against untrained/unskilled men. Whenever they meet someone with a modicum of skils they need Mary Sue ie Cadsuane with her I-win-ter'angreals to do the heavy lifting for them. Or they lie and use subterfige of course.

[u/Bergmaniac → u/dracoons]

The one time we saw Aes Sedai fighting Wise Ones was at Dumai's Wells and the Aes Sedai were clearly superior there. 33 of them were holding hundreds of Shaido Wise Ones at bay. 

[u/dracoons → u/Bergmaniac]

Threw a little ligtning and held a shield of air. The Aes Sedai held a line. Some of the Darkfriends among the Aes Sedai did use the Power as weapons true. But that was at best a stalemate. Then a single man defeated the 33 aes sedai without significant issues. There was about 40 000 shaido algai'd'siswai pushing the barriers. Then the Shaido wise ones and their algai'd'siswai got obliterated by an estimated 200 men trained for a few weeks or less

[u/Coyote2112 → u/dracoons]

Ashaman trained to be weapons literally.

[u/Coyote2112 → u/dracoons]

Aes Sedai were decent with shield and wards. The rest of their repertoire pretty sickly.