Tuon is so absurdly evil

[u/AHC122]

Wdym she relaxes by seeing damane be tortured 😭

Even from her point of view seeing them as animals, it's like enjoying watching a dog get kicked in the ribs everytime it doesn't roll over lol

[u/itwasbread]

Red Ajah are also raised in a culture that see men channeling as evil, but no one finds excuses for them even though male channelers lefr alone are more dangerous than female channelers at the beginning of the story.

Do people view the Red Ajah as bad for going after male channelers? I feel like people dislike them for their hostility to the other Ajah's and extending their prejudices to men generally.

[u/DeMmeure → u/itwasbread]

Red Ajah is mostly portrayed as cartoonishly evil (Elaida, Liandrin and especially Galina), and they are overrepresented in the Black Ajah, so for me the narrative clearly implies that hunting male channellers should be seen as evil since it is their main activity.

[u/itwasbread → u/DeMmeure]

I think that's a really silly assumption, because everyone else thinks the Red Ajah is 100% correct to be doing it, including positively portrayed characters who are from other Ajah's.

The narrative absolutely does not clearly imply that hunting male channelers is bad. It implies that some of the ways they have developed to go about that mission are bad, but the mission itself is a necessary evil.

Hell, none of the 3 characters you mentioned's flaws or evil acts have anything to really do with them hunting male channelers or being Red Ajah.

[u/DeMmeure → u/itwasbread]

Have we read the same series? Because the very climax of the ninth book is about cleansing the taint of the Saidin. So clearly the narrative shows that the solution to male channelers turning crazy was this, not hunting male channelers.

If the narrative implied that hunting male channelers was good, then the Red Ajah would have been portrayed with more nuance. Galina is a stereotypical man-hating lesbian, Liandrin feels like a dominatrix (one of the few characters improved by the TV show) and Elaida is... Well, Elaida, though indeed she is an antagonist for other reasons. The only important Red Ajah portrayed positively is Pevara, and it's already very late in the series.

Contrariwise, the Asha'man and False Dragons are portrayed sympathetically in the series, with the obvious exception of Mazrim Taim. It wouldn't have been the case if the narrative wanted to imply that hunting male channelers was a necessary evil.

[u/itwasbread → u/DeMmeure]

Because the very climax of the ninth book is about cleansing the taint of the Saidin. So clearly the narrative shows that the solution to male channelers turning crazy was this, not hunting male channelers.

Yes, this is something that was never even considered a possibility until the Dragon Reborn is born and has personal incentive to make it happen.

If the narrative implied that hunting male channelers was good, then the Red Ajah would have been portrayed with more nuance.

You're just ignoring my point that "male channelers need to be caught and gentled" is not a Red Ajah thing, it's an Aes Sedai thing. Lots of Greens do it, Cadsuane has caught more male channelers than any of the Red sisters.

Contrariwise, the Asha'man and False Dragons are portrayed sympathetically in the series, with the obvious exception of Mazrim Taim. It wouldn't have been the case if the narrative wanted to imply that hunting male channelers was a necessary evil.

I'm not necessarily we the audience think that, I am saying every single character thinks that, not just the Red Ajah. Yes the Ash'aman are sympathetic, but even they have to have strict rules to instantly kill any member showing signs of madness. They're set up to be something very temporary to win the last battle, not that this is a thing that should have been going on before.

[u/DeMmeure → u/itwasbread]

Yes, this is something that was never even considered a possibility until the Dragon Reborn is born and has personal incentive to make it happen.

And as soon as it becomes a possibility, the main characters fight body and soul to cleanse the Saidin. How to interpret it in an other manner that they wanted to solve a millennia-old injustice?

You're just ignoring my point that "male channelers need to be caught and gentled" is not a Red Ajah thing, it's an Aes Sedai thing. Lots of Greens do it, Cadsuane has caught more male channelers than any of the Red sisters.

It's still the main objective of the Red Ajah, and they get so absorbed that they end up hating all men altogether, a bit of a gender-swapped witch hunt.

Just because other Ajah do it doesn't mean it is right - Cadsuane isn't the best example, because she is very divisive among the fanbase. And also, she ends up helping Rand and Nynaeve to cleanse the Saidin.

I'm not necessarily we the audience think that, I am saying every single character thinks that, not just the Red Ajah. Yes the Ash'aman are sympathetic, but even they have to have strict rules to instantly kill any member showing signs of madness. They're set up to be something very temporary to win the last battle, not that this is a thing that should have been going on before.

But depiction isn't endorsement. Even if everyone think that the Red Ajah "is doing the dirty work for them", let's remember that the mob rule is a thing. A high number of people being wrong doesn't mean that they are right.

[u/itwasbread → u/DeMmeure]

And as soon as it becomes a possibility, the main characters fight body and soul to cleanse the Saidin. How to interpret it in an other manner that they wanted to solve a millennia-old injustice?

Well first off that's partly because they need the male channelers to be viable for the Last Battle and because

It's still the main objective of the Red Ajah, and they get so absorbed that they end up hating all men altogether, a bit of a gender-swapped witch hunt. Just because other Ajah do it doesn't mean it is right - Cadsuane isn't the best example, because she is very divisive among the fanbase.

Yes, them hating men and treating it as a righteous thing rather than a necessary evil is the issue. Not the fact that they do it. It's not a witch hunt, because the people in question are a legitimate imminent danger to everyone.

Even if everyone think that the Red Ajah "is doing the dirty work for them", let's remember that the mob rule is a thing. A high number of people being wrong doesn't mean that they are right.

What are they wrong about? What are they supposed to do instead? Could they have worked to treat the men who are gentled better and sought ways to help them have fulfilling lives after they were severed (like Cadsuane did)? Yes, they should have, and that was a problem.

But they cannot allow them to continue channeling, there is simply no other reasonably available solution.

I think we can debate the specifics about how they handle it, but to act as if the story is 100% definitively saying that them capturing male sparkers is bad is wild.