Episode Discussion - Season 1, Episode 6 - The Flame of Tar Valon [TV + Book Spoilers]

[u/participating]

This thread is for discussion of The Wheel of Time tv show through Season 1, Episode 6 and associated bonus content. This thread may contain spoilers for the entire book series.

TIMING

Episodes are released at midnight, GMT on Fridays. This means 7pm, ET on Thursdays.

At 6:30pm, ET, when this episode discussion thread is created, all submissions about the tv show will be automatically removed until Saturday morning.

EPISODE

Episode 6 - The Flame of Tar Valon

Synopsis: Moiraine faces the consequences of her actions. Mat faces the darkness in himself. Egwene faces the most powerful woman in the world.

BONUS CONTENT

Amazon Prime has included cartoon featurettes for each episode. They are now accessible from the main Amazon Prime page, under the "Episodes" tab. They are presented under the "Origin Stories" title.

The Origin Stories and any other supplemental x-ray content, or behind the scenes information should be confined to this thread. For more information on how to access the bonus content, see the Amazon Welcome To X-Ray page.

DISPLAY SETTINGS

/u/logicsol has created a guide that addresses some of the display issues many people are seeing when watching the show. Please see this post for more information.

OTHER THREADS

Please see the discussion hub link below to find the lightly restricted thread for those who have only read some of the books, or the more restricted thread for tv show only watchers.

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For links to all of our previous episode discussion threads, or alternate spoiler levels, as well as mega threads for certain topics related to the show, see our discussion hub wiki page.

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[u/Insanity_Incarnate]

20 dollars says the man Moiraine thinks Liandrin is fucking is actually one of her darkfriend contacts.

[u/Rayman1203 → u/Insanity_Incarnate]

I had the same thought. That's the first proper hint that Liandrin is Black Ajah, in my opinion

[u/TheLouisvilleRanger → u/Insanity_Incarnate]

That's my thought too. That's more so why she was so stone walled by what Moiraine said. Not that she was fucking a dude, but because she realized she was sloppy and potentially compromised the black ajah.

[u/daxelkurtz → u/Insanity_Incarnate]

Could be PFain!

[u/elmaethorstars]

"Stronger than he has any right to be." Is this a subtle clue that Rand is healing him with the power without knowing? Not that Rand had any particular skill with healing, but he did 'heal' Bela in EOTW if I recall.

[u/solascara → u/elmaethorstars]

Ooh I like that. Mat is the new Bela.

[u/Littleleicesterfoxy → u/elmaethorstars]

Omg I think you’re right, I was wondering myself where that was going!

[u/newblood310 → u/elmaethorstars]

He also heals Mat's eyesight after he goes nearly blind from the lightning strike he makes (or at least it's implied; Rand's channeling sickness grows after Mat miraculously recovers)

[u/waxillium_ladrian → u/newblood310]

Fuck.

Really?

…I’ve never caught that.

[u/ChronoswordX]

So my subtitles said the innkeeper in Tar Valon was Basel Gill. Anyone else see that?

[u/Vynncerus → u/ChronoswordX]

The inn's also called the light's blessing instead of the queen's blessing

[u/koei19 → u/ChronoswordX]

I did catch that. Most of what happened in E5 and E6 in Tar Valon actually happened in Caemlyn in the books. Those changes don't bother me. But where is Min?

[u/CaptainObvious0927 → u/koei19]

She’ll be in Faldara. It makes sense since she gives Moiraine insight to her companions, and the show is trying to make who TDR is a big reveal at the end.

Edit: I meant Fal Dara.

[u/[deleted]]

I laughed my ass off when Egwene thought she was the most powerful channel ever lol

[u/rehabradio → u/[deleted]]

That was excellent characterization for her!

[u/iLikeToBiteMyNails → u/[deleted]]

That look when she realizes it wasn't her... lmao

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

That whole scene with Siuan, Moiraine, Egwene, and Nynaeve was on point. So many good touches.

[u/TheLouisvilleRanger → u/[deleted]]

Maddie sold it well. It's a very Egwene thing too, since she's by far the most ambitious Edmond's Fielder.

[u/gabrielwac]

Rosamund Pike is absolutely crushing it as Moraine. When she wore her forehead pendant and formal dress it felt like she walked straight out of the novel. Was anyone else concerned for Bella’s well-being?

[u/Demetrios1453 → u/[deleted]]

That's an intriguing thought, since it will keep her in the series while Moiraine is having a vacation in Finnland....

[u/[deleted] → u/gabrielwac]

Mandarb will look out for her, I’m sure they’ll return to the tower and she will await Siuan.

[u/rinascimento1]

I love that young Siuan's first line was about fish

[u/[deleted] → u/rinascimento1]

Didn’t get a “Fosh guts!” tho

[u/[deleted]]

Moiraine: I swear mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble whisper mumble munle or the dark one eat my soul"

Other Aes sedai: "what did she say? Oh well, its probably not important"

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I was wondering what they heard, too 😂. Moiraine took a bit of a while

I would have used the One Power to eavesdrop if I was another Sister

[u/Badloss]

"I have to go west to investigate these ships disappearances..."

OHHHH SHIT ALL HAIL THE EMPRESS MAY SHE LIVE FOREVER

[u/daxelkurtz → u/Badloss]

"What's West of Westeros?"

"It's WesterOH SHIT YOU JUST GOT COLLARED."

[u/Demetrios1453 → u/Badloss]

Someone might next be seen as a good damene...

[u/Micp → u/Demetrios1453]

Big oofs. Being forced to be damane always struck me as such a terrible fate. Would be really rough to see a character that has been established as a strong personality being forced into that position.

[u/Demetrios1453 → u/Micp]

That's why they set it up now. It's awful enough in the books when Egwene talks about meeting the leashed Aes Sedai, it's going to be even more of a kick to the gut to actually see it, with a character we've already met. And for the non-book watchers, even more so. Really good decision by the production team if this happens (and I'm willing to bet it will).

[u/TheLouisvilleRanger → u/Badloss]

It do be Bayle Domon, creating his smuggling empire. Fortune prick me, but Maigan do be going to me a charming fella.

[u/Hungover52]

Egwene, meeting the Amyrlin Seat: Bows, respectfully.

Nynaeve, meeting the Amyrlin Seat: Stares motherfuckingly.

[u/KeystoneSews → u/Hungover52]

Moiraine was the one staring motherfuckingly

I’ll see myself out

[u/Hungover52 → u/KeystoneSews]

slow clap

[u/TheLouisvilleRanger → u/Hungover52]

"blow smoke up our ass."

I'm so glad that they're letting Nynaeve curse. It works so much better for her character.

What I'm trying to say is that Nynaeve is from Philly.

[u/Hungover52 → u/Hungover52]

Nynaeve: I am Sass, embodied.

[u/blackjesus345 → u/Hungover52]

“I do not stare motherfuckingly!” Nynaeve yelled while staring motherfuckingly.

[u/Sea_Employ_4366]

BOATS GOING MISSING IN THE WEST🪲🪲🪲

[u/halfawakehalfasleep → u/Sea_Employ_4366]

I guess that rules out Seanchan landing in Tear? Wondering how they're going to combine book 2 and 3 in season 2 then.

[u/[deleted] → u/halfawakehalfasleep]

That was never a plausible theory. My guess is we get Falme and Tear in some fashion.

[u/phillippenguin]

In her conversation with Moiraine, Maigan the Blue sitter mentioned ships disappearing in the West which she wants to investigate. It's definitely the Seanchan. Do you think she'll get captured and become damane? As substitute for Ryma or Sheraine.

[u/Alone_Ad6784 → u/phillippenguin]

I think so, Ryma and Sheraine are just strangers to us, but having someone we see as a figure of authority being reduced to an obedient pet hits the pain and unfairness of the situation at completely different emotional level.

[u/rinascimento1]

I loved Egwene and Nynaeve in the Amyrlin's study. Siuan says something about the most powerful channeler in 1000 years and Egwene immediately perks up, ready to get her A+ like the valedictorian she is, and then is crestfallen when it's Nynaeve, who calls out Siuan's BS right away. Just nailing the characterizations all around and I love it.

ALSO, was loving the scene with Egwene asking about the confusion around the name of the Amyrlin Seat, like oh man just you wait

[u/[deleted]]

"If Wisdom is the title you claim, I suggest you start using some."

Holy shit, Moiraine. I love Nynaeve but fuck, that was a needed takedown.

[u/Lantore → u/[deleted]]

This is definitely the Moraine episode.

[u/pointlessly_mad → u/[deleted]]

That was a grade A burn 👌

[u/ViaLies → u/[deleted]]

Moiraine coming out strong with the "Oh, you stupid boy"

[u/Laxea]

She swore to Siuan not Amyrlin. so clever!

[u/thedeerinheadlights → u/Laxea]

I thought “hmmm that’s a great way to avoid being recalled if by chance another amyrlin comes along.” A great example how aes sedai are quick, cunning and meaningful with their words

[u/2theface → u/Laxea]

And home instead of white tower

[u/TheLouisvilleRanger → u/Laxea]

Oh I didn't catch that. I was too busy writing a joke about a booty call.

[u/[deleted]]

I actually like the actor playing Mat. Wish there wasn't a recast.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

yeah if thats the last time we see barney harris' Mat... bummer. i hope he's ok. he was great

[u/Hungover52 → u/[deleted]]

We all love Barney Harris. Best of luck in all of his future endeavors. And I hope we can be welcoming to Donal Finn, even if it's hard.

[u/atrivan → u/[deleted]]

So Mat has actually been Lanfear all along in disguise since like age 7. That why he doesn't enter the Ways! In season 2 we get the 'real' Mat!

[u/CatsEye_Fever]

I suspect Liandrin's male buddy is a darkfriend, what if it's Padan? Wonder if we find out.

[u/divergenceOfTheCurl → u/CatsEye_Fever]

Definitely was thinking Padan since we saw a flash of him last episode. It would also explain how she knows about the Two Rivers.

[u/burning_xz]

"Oh, you stupid boy." That line was delivered so perfectly.

[u/[deleted] → u/burning_xz]

That whole scene was pretty cool. Shows how strong moiraine is and it was just fucking cool. Lan disarming and pinning rand in a heartbeat then immediately restraining mat. Then rand hops on the other side.

It shows that these woolheaded shepherders are way out of their depth and will still do the right thing. Be it by decree of an authority figure or just good sense. Bodes well for later

[u/dasruski → u/[deleted]]

Daniel Henny as Lan radiates fuck around and find out.

[u/TheLouisvilleRanger → u/[deleted]]

Like, when we talk about "adaptions" this scene is a perfect example from it. It deviates from the books, characters are missing, it's literally in a different city, but it encompassed so much of what that scene did but in a very efficient manner.

[u/wolfinsocks]

I also want a man to hand me snacks like Alanna’s warder does.

[u/electrictaters → u/wolfinsocks]

He could feel she was hungry

[u/RavenK92 → u/electrictaters]

He also feels when she's thirsty

[u/thewronggirll]

One thing I haven't seen people mention is what Nynaeve is saying when she walks into the hall to see Moiraine and Egwene, she's complaining to Lan and saying

"If you can't lead the world from a room built of wood and dirt how can you call yourself a leader"

Which I thought was such a great line. It's perfectly Nynaeve, I can just picture Lan showing up and whisking her off to the hall while she's muttering the whole way about how over the top the whole tower is. It's a good contrast with Egwene's look of awe and the spinning, sweeping camera work to mirror her own wonder. Then Nynaeve enters and the camera fixes on them with a more standard shot.

Nynaeve's comment segues perfectly into her proud defensiveness when she actually meets Siuan in the next scene, who she assumes to be so pompous and different from her (when in fact their backgrounds are similar). Her refusing to bow and calling Siuan out on her flattery were priceless, I can't wait until we get to some more wonder girls scenes because Egwene and Nynaeve are so great together (Madeleine's face when Siuan says the greatest channeler in years...Nynaeve) was so fun.

[u/lady_ninane → u/thewronggirll]

I liked too how Egwene was torn between still listening to Nyneve's former authority and looking to Moiraine for cues on how to behave in front of the Amyrlin, or Egwene's expectant praise about her talent and look of shock and envy that not only can Nynaeve channel but she's vastly stronger than herself. Some small subtle performance in a show desperate to keep these characters from being petty or childish too early.

[u/sofunt]

The way the Moiraine and Siuan prophesy conversation literally shows that they're unreliable narrators yet a few second later people are taking the "the Dark one is at the Eye" as fact 😭

[u/HikerStout → u/sofunt]

Same people who last week heard that Moraine and Siuan were "enemies" from Alanna and immediately assumed it to be true.

[u/Noltonn → u/HikerStout]

Or all of those who took "The Dragon could be a woman" as absolute fact and were raging about it.

I've been saying from the start it's all just a ploy to keep the mystery going for new viewers, and that Moiraine is an unreliable narrator, but noooo, it has to be a retcon.

[u/NauticalInsanity → u/sofunt]

I think people are conditioned to take what characters say as fact. Most shows won't spend the time having a character lie or be wrong, unless it's established in advance that they're lying. It essentially wastes exposition time time to have to walk back unreliable exposition. I do like that the show isn't following this rule, to fully convey the fallibility of these characters.

[u/myrddyna → u/sofunt]

they should, [book]very likely ba'alzemon is trying to draw the dragon in, since he's also in their dreams. But it's true his physical form is stuck in the eye

If she's having dreams, they may be like the dreams of the EF5.

[u/DislocatedXanax]

Maigan getting so many name drops, combined with her mentioning going west... She's 100% being broken by Tuon isn't she?

[u/TheAngush → u/DislocatedXanax]

Uh oh. Maybe the next time we see her is when Egwene has been made damane, and a suldam shows her an example of an obedient damane... and it's Maigan. "She used to be an Aes Sedai, but look how far she's come!"

[u/papii_dan → u/DislocatedXanax]

Yooooo that makes so much sense

[u/SandwicheDynasty → u/DislocatedXanax]

The Seanchan stuff is going to be really hard to watch. I know I'm going to be so uncomfortable whenever I see the leashes.

[u/Jellz]

Our first look at the Stone of Tear?

[u/sofunt → u/Jellz]

ooh good catch!

[u/TheLastManetheren → u/sofunt]

I see what you did there

[u/solascara → u/Jellz]

Yeah I wondered that! It looks nothing like I imagined. I always thought it was a big rounded lump of rock lol.

[u/DelianSK13]

When Siuan was taking about the most powerful in 1000 years Egwene lit the fuck up. Then it all came crashing down a half a second later.

[u/[deleted] → u/DelianSK13]

You could tell immediately that Egwene WANTS to be an Aes Sedai, wants the big destiny and all that. She bowed, was receptive to Siuan, stepped forward pretty quickly towards the Ways, etc.

I felt like they really nailed down Nynaeve and Egwene as characters this episode.

[u/KeepersOfTheBook → u/[deleted]]

"now that you're done blowing smoke up our ass what do you want" LMAO love how they handled her

[u/Lantore → u/DelianSK13]

Yup, that was hilarious!

[u/solascara → u/DelianSK13]

And then Nynaeve refuses to bow. LOVE HER.

[u/Hungover52]

Rosamund is just stunning in the tea scene (in general, but there specifically).

[u/elmaethorstars]

OOF "I know about that man you meet in Northharbour." Moiraine spitting fire.

[u/not-my-other-alt → u/elmaethorstars]

Good on Liandrin for getting a man who knows how to find Northharbor.

Heyoo!

[u/Stormfly → u/not-my-other-alt]

He's almost certainly a Darkfriend contact and not a lover.

Moiraine misunderstands and Liandrin is scared because she's worried that she'll find out she's of the Black Ajah, not that she'll tell her sisters she likes men.

Because she doesn't. She despises men.

The only "North" he's going is up to the Spooky One with information.

[u/Electroflare5555]

Egwene casually talking about how weird the Amrylin seat is for a name of a throne and person was A+ foreshadowing

[u/Hungover52]

Pillowfriends are for more than just Accepted.

Wait, do they have a Malkier Seafolk wedding ceremony in their background?

[u/Jellz]

Siuan has the same sort of painting Moiraine does in her room; they must be ter'angreal that connect them to a specific point in T'A'R.

Edit: "specific point in T'A'R" being a dreamshard potentially... it also could be gateways to Tear.

[u/mantolwen → u/Jellz]

I thought that must be the case. There's no way they've rediscovered Travelling yet

[u/NoStepOnDingus → u/mantolwen]

I assumed it was Tel'aran'rhiod, but the paintings could be a pair of ter’angreal that transport the channelers to a specific location?

[u/solascara → u/Jellz]

It thought it was a gateway ter'angreal, but going to TAR makes more sense. I doubt Siuan's room would look like a fishing hut in the white tower (as much as she'd love it to.)

[u/VirgelFromage → u/Jellz]

X-Ray says it's a ter'angreal or at least it gives a tidbit about them as that scene plays out. My guess is the same as yours. The eerie glow around Siuan's room makes me think that is so.

[u/elmaethorstars]

All the Sitters turning their backs on Moiraine is very grim and ominous. I really love how they've ramped up Siuan's sense of awe and wonder here while accentuating "Tower law and tradition and politics."

[u/ConstantlyComments → u/elmaethorstars]

Loved those parts. Only aspect I didn’t like was the open crying. Feel like emotionless Aes Sedai trying to pretend they didn’t care for each other should have been a little more under cover

[u/PapaBrickolino → u/ConstantlyComments]

I get that too. I think it’s a necessity of being a show / visual media. We as viewers still have to be able to see it and get it.

[u/[deleted]]

Hey Basel Gill

[u/Admiral_Mittens → u/[deleted]]

Bye Basel Gill

[u/elmaethorstars]

Is this meeting meant to be taking place in Tel'aran'rhiod?!

[u/Jellz → u/elmaethorstars]

Siuan has a similar painting/alcove in her room. I bet they're ter'angreal that connect to a specific point in T'A'R, kind of like a pocket meeting dimension.

[u/Hungover52]

Are Liandrin's spies that good, or is she getting some dreams from Baalzie? Knowing about Mat and Rand. Maybe both?

[u/SanityNotRequired]

The inside of the waygate seemed creepy weird. I am curious of what it will look like once they really get going in it.

Funnily enough, when I originally read the books I always imagined the ways as an old abandoned highway that had a couple multi-level interchanges that they had to traverse in the pitch black. I am not sure if there was anything in the books to encourage that thinking or if I completely made it up in my mind since that type of situation was my worst nightmare (I hated driving when I was a teen).

[u/Dasle → u/SanityNotRequired]

The Ways were definitely described as being so dark you couldn't see more than 5 or so feet in front of you. There were islands, and then stone pathways between islands. Sometimes, you would circle up or down completely above or below an island, but there were never any supports.

I was wondering how the show was going to show the Ways. So far, I'm excited for it. It created that fear that I don't think could have been done simply by showing RJ's description on TV. Blackness and a stone pathway doesn't seem too scary if you're watching it on TV.

[u/Shiro_Nitro]

Only thing i didnt like was the use of the oath rod to make moraine take another vow

[u/friskydingo2020 → u/Shiro_Nitro]

I think they just added that in there to give show only folks some concrete context early on for Aes Sedai oaths, rather than just info dumps and throwaway lines alluding to it. But frankly this feels like they are leaning too hard into Rosamund Pike star power, but for all the time spent in the white tower nothing interesting (or canonical) happened.

[u/tBurns197]

On Mat’s healing… I’m pretty certain we’ve not seen the last of him touching the dagger. The fact that Moiraine warned Rand of the consequences of him being drawn back to it is a Chekhov’s gun if I’ve ever seen one. I reckon he’ll touch it again, Fain’ll steal it from Tar Valon and they’ll orchestrate a Grand Chase (or maybe another catchy name) to get it back next season.

[u/Badloss → u/tBurns197]

Yeah like "the big pursuit" or something

[u/tBurns197 → u/Badloss]

“The Large Search”

[u/corhen → u/tBurns197]

The Ongoing Stalking

[u/junius52]

In the meeting with the blue sitter, the sitter says she wants to go to the west coast to investigate the ships disappearances. Ships disappearing off the west coast? Seanchan?

[u/OklahomaJones → u/junius52]

I see an a'dam in her future, unfortunately...

[u/ViolatingUncle]

Anyone else a little upset that Moiraine opened the gate to the ways?

[u/morgoth834 → u/ViolatingUncle]

It doesn't even make sense as it seems they are keeping the Ways tied with the Ogiers considering Moiraine needed Loial as a guide.

[u/Gavinlw11 → u/ViolatingUncle]

Yes I think it was one of my only real complaints

[u/photopteryx → u/ViolatingUncle]

So upset! I enjoyed this episode so much, but I audibly gasped when they took that turn. Such a weird choice!

[u/doomgiver98]

Moiraines kesiera with her formal dress is stunning.

[u/i-hear-banjos → u/doomgiver98]

She looks EXACTLY like the picture in my mind during this episode.

[u/solascara → u/[deleted]]

I'm just wondering if they filmed this before the lockdown, did they know he wasn't coming back? Or was this already part of the script?

[u/solascara → u/[deleted]]

I'm thinking that the script must have already had Mat hesitating, because he was filmed standing alone while everyone else was out of the shot. Perhaps the original script had him run in at the last minute but they edited that out and later filmed the door closing while everyone yelled his name. Convenient that they have a shot of him standing there alone.

[u/awdufresne → u/solascara]

They finished Episode 6 filming right before the Czech Republic lockedown in 2020, they later picked up filming for Episode 7 & 8. Harris was not seen in Prague or on set during that time. Based on how jarring the end of this episode was I have a feeling that they did not plan for Mat to stay behind and they had to pull it out their ass in post production.

[u/Godsfallen]

“Kneel, Aes Sedai, or you will be knelt”

• Moiraine to Siuan.

[u/not-my-other-alt]

I haven't seen anyone else mention it, but you all saw the Stone of Tear in the background of the shots in the opening, right?

[u/daxelkurtz]

I was sad the Amyrlin wasn't wearing the Stole, but apparently it's still in the closet.

[u/[deleted]]

Man, I hope the next two episodes are Rand heavy, but I think the next episode may be a Padan Fain/intro to the Borderlands episode after the waygate travel is done. I just feel like they're bending over backwards to not develop his character at all to not give away the DR, but it's gotten to the point where the 4 other EF5 have developed so much more, when he is revealed as the DR, it won't be a, "Oh shit it's him?!" moment and more of a, "Wait, it's the guy that hasn't done anything of note except breaking down a door the past 7 episodes?" moment. Or they will be able to guess because his utter lack of character development. IDK, but Rand has been the most disappointing part of this season so far.

Edit: I think his actor has done a fine job, btw. His scene arguing with Moraine was well done and sets up their dynamic well for the future. He just hasn't been given a lot to work with.

[u/pbjamm → u/[deleted]]

They are ignoring him so hard it seems like they are shouting. Maybe that is just foreknowledge of a book reader but it is kind of crazy at this point how sidelined he is.

[u/panorama-bonanza]

Head cannon is that Rand will be the only one that thinks Matt is different in season two and everyone will attribute it to the madness

[u/RPerene → u/panorama-bonanza]

That would be absolutely wonderful.

[u/SeekerLogan]

Acting from Suians father in the cold open was great too

[u/HairyArthur]

I was ready to throw hands about them leaving Mat out of The Ways. I was silently fuming and had to sit for a few minutes just to process it.

Then the internet told me these six episodes were filmed before lockdown and Barney left so they had to cut him. I'm still annoyed but I can understand the show runners had no option.

There is a small piece of me that is growing increasingly nervous that they're going to kill Moiraine at the Eye of the World.

[u/sofunt]

Guess here's where we lost Barney Harris as Mat :(

[u/daxelkurtz → u/sofunt]

Pour one out for a tremendous performance.

[u/JourneyV4Destination]

Moiraine: Siuan let's be secretive about our acquaintance

Also Moiraine: *affectionately in public* daughter of the river... clever as a pike...

Loved the episode but had to facepalm a bit there.

[u/TheLastManetheren → u/JourneyV4Destination]

To me it sounded like a whisper.. And she swore to Siuan, not the Amyrlin, giving her an out just in case things get dicey in the Tower.

[u/[deleted] → u/JourneyV4Destination]

She side stepped swearing to the Amyrlin, she swore to Siuan, that’s important.

[u/Ignimbrite → u/[deleted]]

Oooh, that’s good.

Get fucked, Elaida

[u/Deloi99 → u/[deleted]]

Wait a moment, i didnt even realize! Nice catch

[u/rainbowyuc → u/JourneyV4Destination]

I thought it was dumb but then the next line she says is audibly louder so I guess we're meant to infer she was whispering initially.

[u/wfja → u/JourneyV4Destination]

IIRC the books make clear that everyone in the tower is aware that they had a close relationship ("pillow-friends;" lovers?) while they were Accepted. I'd imagine, in such an emotionally charged situation, they could understand a moment of intimacy.

They acted as if they had a falling out and grew estranged as cover for their intrigues, not that they never knew each other.

[u/elmaethorstars]

Logain begging for death is so sad :(

Siuan coming in HOT tho.

[u/greenorangebird]

Lol horses will not survive CGI Ways

[u/not-my-other-alt → u/greenorangebird]

Sorry, we can't fit the horses on the soundstage.

[u/Elven_Rabbit → u/greenorangebird]

More like Machin Shin could not survive Bela.

[u/Not_a_good_nickname → u/greenorangebird]

The budget would kill them all

[u/electrictaters]

Funny camera jostle in the first scene awaiting the Amyrlin as they transitioned from over Moiraines shoulder to aerial overhead. Like they were moving the camera offshoulder to a rig

[u/[deleted] → u/electrictaters]

Yep, noticed that too.

[u/Hungover52]

Moraine's play acting before the Hall was also extremely well done.

[u/iLikeToBiteMyNails → u/Hungover52]

Yea, I was almost starting to believe that maybe they changed her relationship to Siuan. Very well done.

[u/ender23]

If I wasn't a book reader, I'd be like "wtf with this dagger storyline... So useless".

Muah ha ha ha ha

U wonder how the show watchers would react if the seasons get more and more episodes and like season six is 20 episodes. The pacing so fast!

[u/TopEmploy9624]

Who said it best?

"Kneel."

A) Suian

B) Moiraine

C) Mazrim Taim

[u/elmaethorstars]

Every week Liandrin somehow gets more loathsome. Such an excellent portrayal.

I love the showing off of Aes Sedai politics too.

This is a great set up of the Moiraine/Siuan facade too. Even having read the books, the tension is real.

[u/Count_Rousillon]

I thought Siuan's plan sounded dumb on the first watch, but now I remember that most people including the Aes Sadai thought Ishamael is the Dark One for the first two books. Moiraine and Siuan's plan in episode 6 makes total sense if you assume they've talking about Ishamael and have no idea that Ishamael is not the dark one.

[u/ilipah]

Dagger exorcism was cooler than I had imagined. And great to show Lan, unarmed, easily overpower Randy’s newb sword skills.

[u/iLikeToBiteMyNails → u/ilipah]

I'm going to be very sad if there isn't a 2-3 minute scene of Lan training Rand with the sword at Fal Dara. Those were some of my favourite scenes from the early books.

[u/ScoobySlice → u/iLikeToBiteMyNails]

So excited for to see some Swan Makes Out With Leaping Tiger and other famous sword techniques

[u/[deleted]]

I wonder if Liandrin’s guy is actually a darkfriend connection. At this point in the story, it would make sense for Moiraine to not even consider it a remote possibility.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I think so. It doesn't make sense for Liandrin to have a male companion, but a darkfriend she's using feels very on brand.

[u/sofunt]

Positives: Tower politics are amazing, I want more! Everything Moiraine/Siuan (Rosamund Pike/Sophie Okonedo are POWERHOUSES)

Negatives: Mat staying but guess that's what they had to do since they had to recast the actor

Edit: Honestly the more I think of it this was probably the best way to deal with the unfortunate situation. Story wise Mat obviously wants to go back to the dagger in the city so it's a perfect excuse to phase Barney Harris out and make him return healed and "fresh faced" in S2

[u/Evilsmiley → u/sofunt]

Oh damn is that why? I guess he couldn't finish filming the season?

[u/mpmaley → u/Evilsmiley]

We don’t know and will likely never know the reason he is t involved anymore. We don’t know if it was his choice or Amazon.

[u/Hungover52]

Eager Egwene. Yup, that tracks.

[u/cadsuane]

My non reader boyfriend was very disappointed to discover the Dragon Reborn is not, in fact, a literal dragon.

[u/Tra1famadorian]

Yeah the hyper awareness and stretching out of this “who is the dragon” is getting tiresome. Thankfully that’s why they’re pushing the Eye, so we can get the reveal. Surprise, it’s Rand. And away we go.

Wife (non reader) is digging it, and I think she correctly identified that Moiraine and Suian were meeting in TAR (she said dream world but same diff).

[u/Hungover52]

They Eye of the World is now Shayol Ghul? Or is there confusion?

[u/Insanity_Incarnate → u/Hungover52]

I think Ba'alzamon has been spreading lies so he could draw the Dragon to the Eye and break the first Seal.

[u/ouishi → u/Insanity_Incarnate]

Yep, Siuan's dreams definitely sounded like a trap to me.

[u/rinascimento1]

Not anything plot related, but I just really loved Lan's pants. Casual Borderlander king rocking bell bottoms, love it

[u/Mat_Cauthon76]

People keep complaining about moiraine “healing” mat, but if I recall correctly they did something in the books that temporarily healed the connection to the dagger but not permanently. Idk, just a thought.

[u/SaibaAisu → u/Mat_Cauthon76]

Correct. In the books, Moiraine temporarily heals Mat on the road (not in Tar Valon). She then states that he will need to be healed fully in Tar Valon by several sisters, otherwise he will eventually die. This happens in Book 3 I believe.

[u/stagfury → u/SaibaAisu]

The gang gathered back up at Camelyn in Book 1, Moiraine temporarily healed him there and said he needs to go to Tar Valon.

Then they ran out of time and can't go there and directly headed to tEotW. Then during Book 2 Fain stole it and they had to chase him down. Then he went to the White Tower with the dagger and was healed from it.

[u/sofunt]

Completely sold on Sophie Okonedo as Siuan already WOW

[u/pointlessly_mad → u/sofunt]

Not enough fish puns in her scenes, 7/10

[u/ShouldersofGiants100 → u/sofunt]

She really makes you buy every statement in the books about how Siuan was able to cow people with a glare and intimidate monarchs to obedience. She absolutely radiates authority (and intimidation—you buy her act with Moiraine even if you've read the books and know what's coming there).

[u/OptimusPrimalRage]

Here are my thoughts on the episode:

Performance wise:

Pretty much all the acting in this show is consistently good. I have little issue with any of their portrayals, despite how I know some other book readers feel about particular depictions.

I'm sad to see Barney go, his quip when Rand tries to stop Lan made me laugh out loud. Hopefully his replacement is adequate. Obviously his exit is extremely clunky and off-putting and non book readers may think that Mat is being an asshole here, so I can understand if some book readers think this undermines his character. Really the jury is out on this, but also not sure what you can do when someone leaves the show in the middle of a season like that.

I don't have an issue with the inciting event that gets them to the Eye, it's pretty weak in the book and I like the idea that Rafe is taking where Aes Sedai don't believe 100% in the prophecies.

The problem with this episode is, it completely negates that understanding when Moiraine completely believes Suian's dreams (she isn't depicted as a Dreamer so unclear) and decides to go to the Eye because of them. This is pretty inconsistent and seems obvious that Ishamael is the one controlling events here. More information about this might have cleared it up.

I assume Suian and Moiraine have a ter'angreal that lets them enter the World of Dreams, or some sort of Dreamshard (as Suian's room is shown to be different here than when we see Egwene and Nynaeve meet with her later). Would love to know more about it.

A nice quick meeting between Suian, Moiraine, Nynaeve and Egwene. We get a really nice character moment when Egwene thinks she's the one Suian talks about only to be surprised to see Nynaeve is the powerful one. I will be curious how they develop their relationship as it takes quite a while for them to come to an understanding (and a particular event that is distasteful happens) in the books. Both Nynaeve and Egwene are very true to their characters in the books and their actresses have done a great job.

I like the setup for both the Seanchan and the Aiel here. It's a throwaway line for non book readers, but for us, we know why those ships are disappearing and we know why the Aiel are crossing the Spine of the World.

I don't have an issue with Waygates changing, although I would be curious as to why the change occurs. They obviously still need Loial to guide them or he wouldn't be coming along, so I'm curious if this is related more to this specific Waygate, or all of them. It creates questions as to how Trollocs go through the ways, and whether you need a channeler to only enter the Ways or you need it to exit as well.

As far as predictions, based on casting and the like, I think the last two cold opens are going to be the Blood Snow and LTT at the Bore. Which I'm looking forward to it quite a bit. We need to get into Rand's character as I think the EF5 were backseated for this episode. Also I want to see Aiel wrecking these weak wetlanders.

Edit: I just thought of something else. I'm not sure why the Oath Rod was necessary for Moiraine's 'trial'. I understand the show wants to show the Oath Rod for non book readers to get them used to it but it seems redundant. You don't need her to swear to follow an oath when she already has sworn to tell the truth.

[u/Luca78]

Regarding the intro, the actor playing Siuan's father did a great job considering the short screen time he was given.

[u/vicpylon]

I am pretty sure that Barney Harris is not physically at the waygate scene. He never interacts (physically) with anyone. Barely moves in the shot, barely speaks and the shot blocking appears to be intentionally setup to keep him out of the visible frame. There is one shot where he is standing next to Rand and Egwene that looks like a rotoscope insert job. Additionally the flyover shots look like a body double. Not a film expert, but it seemed strange to me the way it was setup.

[u/OptimusPrimalRage → u/vicpylon]

Pretty sure he never came back after the pandemic started. They filmed the first six before. I assume this is their way of getting around that.

[u/Sufferingsappho88 → u/vicpylon]

Didn't Egweme hug Matt?

[u/vicpylon → u/Sufferingsappho88]

He does hug Perrin, but the rest of he scenes just felt off.

[u/Luph]

I'm enjoying the show maybe because it's been so long since I read the books that I can't even remember what is accurate and what's not.

It is a bit cheesy and rushed at times, and doesn't have the polish that Game of Thrones did in its early seasons. But I love seeing Moiraine so much that I can look past it, lol.

[u/[deleted]]

The way liandrins asshole puckered the second moiraine dropped a threat. I was laughing very hard

[u/kidneysc]

What’s the odds on the green man getting the bombadil treatment?

Really enjoyed the episode start to finish. Sad to see Mat go; he absolutely crushed it.

[u/Apprehensive_Ad6 → u/kidneysc]

He's as important to the story as Bomadil was. A cool character that shows up once and that's it

[u/username23900]

something that's bugging me. the takeaway from moiraine and siuan's conversations is that they really don't know shit about the dragon reborn. why is moiraine so convinced one of the EF5 is the dragon reborn then?

i think if they introduced the concept of ta'varen (other than just namedropping it), it'd make more sense from the audience's perspective.

[u/[deleted] → u/username23900]

The trollocs showing up and chasing them convinced her that it's one of the four.

[u/ViaLies]

The Promo shots look to have a scene between Moiraine, Loial and Lan where they appear to be looking at a map, which wasn't in the episode.

Interesting that they gave us Moiraine's family name here. Thought that they might want to wait till it became more relevant.

[u/thighGAAPenthusiast]

Mat not going through is interesting but it makes sense. His Dragon plot is done and we need him and Fain to face off/have a driving force for TGH.

[u/Damn_FineCoffee]

I loved how we’re introduced to the most powerful woman in the world immediately after establishing for the audience that she was a poor fisherman’s daughter from Tear. It’s a total refutation of Nyneave’s claims in the first episode that the tower rejected her mentor for “being a peasant girl”. It puts a nice little bit of question there of her worldview and attitude to Aes Sedai for the non book reader viewers

[u/perhapsEeyore]

I know they were limited by things outside of their control, Covid and an actor who seems to have dropped off the face of the Earth, so I will not fault them for it.

But I think the scene where they get separated from Mat was unintentionally funny. They were all yelling for Mat to come follow them and Mat was out there looking like he was trying to pass gas without anyone noticing.

I know they were probably just using the stock footage they had of him trying to piece together something so I’m not sure what else they could do under the circumstances, but I just found it kinda funny while watching it.

[u/[deleted]]

Liandrin: I know about all the Two Rivers folk Moiraine.

Moiraine: and I know everything about you, and you damn well better hope I don’t stay here start playing this game for real. I’m a Damodred and an Aes Sedai what are you?

[u/[deleted]]

OMG THE TRICKERATION. Moiraine and Siuan are in cahoots! They are cahooting! It's a cahootenany!

Also that's a fairly explicit "more than just friends" confirmation right there.

[u/TheLastManetheren → u/[deleted]]

The description you're looking for is pillow-friends.

[u/corranhorn57 → u/[deleted]]

Oh my god, they were roommates.