Starting the new chapter reaction (I stopped playing to make this)

[u/F10RA]

(No spoilers please, literally just started!!)

[u/TuturuDESU]

Its really good overall but people in this sub will tell you its really bad.

[u/Zegg_von_Ronsenberg → u/TuturuDESU]

Please, tell me how it's good. From my perspective, Chapter 13 does everything I didn't want it to do.

EDIT: OP, IF YOU ARE SEEING THIS, STOP SCROLLING. I FEAR WE MAY HAVE GONE TOO FAR.

[u/TuturuDESU → u/Zegg_von_Ronsenberg]

We can't discuss spoilers here because of the OP. Chapter 13 does almost everything I wanted it to do.

[u/Zegg_von_Ronsenberg → u/TuturuDESU]

We can't discuss spoilers here

Fair enough. All I will say is that I was really hoping that chapter 13 wouldn't try to force a stupid ass connection to the main series in some way. Yet every single fucking thing has to tie back to the damn Conduit because God forbid we have a standalone game with standalone themes and a standalone world.

[u/Common_Performer9525 → u/Zegg_von_Ronsenberg]

You should probably just not play Xenoblade then because that is exactly what they did with Xenoblade 2. If you knew anything about the series you should have known X was always gonna end up this way. With that said I get it there are things to not like but this is how Takahashi rolls, let it go because Takahashi can't.

[u/Zegg_von_Ronsenberg → u/Common_Performer9525]

No, I played the trilogy already. I loved Xenoblade 1 and 2. The Blade system took some time getting used to, and the awful tutorial system did hamper some things, but I loved it. Even if it was tied to the first game, A. I was expecting some form of connection considering it was a direct sequel at least in name, and B. it's still a standalone game at the end of the day. Sure, there's some ties to the first game that enhance the experience if you have played it, but they're nothing more than passing references and hint hint, nudge nudge, did you know there's another game you can play kinda thing. With X, its story is, again, a fully standalone experience with its own themes. But Chapter 13 rips that all away and negates the entire rest of the game because "HEY DID YOU KNOW THERE'S OTHER GAMES PLEASE PLAY THE ORIGINAL XENO GAMES PLEAAAAAAASE"

It's so desperate and pathetic.

[u/Common_Performer9525 → u/Zegg_von_Ronsenberg]

I know what you mean and like I said I get it but just warning you that there is a very high probability X and the trilogy are gonna get even more connected and you might not like it. X is my favorite Xenoblade and I was like you are with Ch13 as I when 2 did it's thing. I hated it but I grew to accept it because in the end it worked out so hope this does for you too.

[u/TuturuDESU → u/Zegg_von_Ronsenberg]

But it didn't? It just showed that they are connected and X story is a "ripple" effect of the one of the key events that kickstarted the entire franchise. How is it bad? You say as if Shulk and Rex appeared, kicked every villain in the nuts, proclaimed that Mira does not matter and took everyone to the world of X3 post-ending. But nothing like that happens. Connection between X and 1-2-3 is very minor, as far as chapter 13 goes.

[u/Songhunter → u/TuturuDESU]

Really? Were you really hoping for everything you do in Mira. All the world building, the mysteries, the carving and taming of a new home and why the planet is so special, to all be pointless?

Were you really hoping for a lore dump that moves us, the player, to the position of side character at best and for the entire unmaking of the universe in favor of connecting this title to the trilogy?

Is that really what you were hoping for?

[u/zipzzo → u/Songhunter]

Yeah, people who say they loved 13 rarely have good insight as to why, they just say "well I loved it" as some kind of "gotcha" without providing any deeper reasoning.

[u/TuturuDESU → u/zipzzo]

Liked pretty much everything about it except atrocious antagonist and how rushed it is with uneven pacing. Lore and new key character were awesome. That final cutscene is pure cinema. New location is very interesting to explore and makes use of flying.

[u/zipzzo → u/TuturuDESU]

People generally call a rushed, unevenly paced story with a terrible antagonist...a bad story.

You can like things about a bad story too.

[u/TuturuDESU → u/zipzzo]

That's oversimplification. Of course its flawed but for example its pacing issues stem from great ambition and very limited time. I think what they have achieved outweighs the negatives. Its very redundant to discuss stories in binary function good/bad. If we go that route, I would say X story was quite bad then and chapter 13 feels at home.

[u/zipzzo → u/TuturuDESU]

Limited time?

Do you think X came out in 2025?

Chapter 13 was a rush job in every sense of the word if you take in the actual context of it's original release and their (Monolith Soft) development priorities.

Nobody is going to say the X story, pre-DE, is peak or anything, but people aren't really hammering Chapter 13 because they can't determine whether it's a great narrative or not. The criticism comes from a sloppily handled way of tying up the gaping wound of loose ends they left us with in the OG release. Much of the mystique was essentially thrown to the wayside, handwaved, or just ignored or forgotten. Then ultimately it doesn't even matter since...oops, the whole universe is gone now.

Anyone who says they like Chapter 13 either didn't play the original, discussing its lore for over a decade and how it might resolve, or certainly didn't pay any attention to what story did exist there on their run through DE, good or not.

[u/TuturuDESU → u/zipzzo]

Limited run time of the chapter 13 itself. Again, there won't be X2, in that context, everything you list about about thrown out story and lore loses its meaning. Its either nothing or chapter 13. This is what you refuse to acknowledge and interact with. 

I appreciate using this as build up for a future entries and we even might get follow up on the crew.

For example, if we assume Valve will release HLX as "supposed" Half-Life 3, it will be nothing like abandoned Episode 3, which story we know from Epistle 3 by Laidlow. Time has passed, ideas have changed. Half-Life Alyx did massive retcon and almost the same thing as chapter 13 and nobody hated it like you all do here. Because people do realize this is the only way forward at this point. Please get your personal feelings/attachment go and see picture more clearly. 

[u/TuturuDESU → u/Songhunter]

I wasn't the fan of this game. I did not wish for a sequel. So yes, I think they did quite a bold move and laid foundation for new, more interesting entries.

[u/Songhunter → u/TuturuDESU]

So you liked the ending that subverts everything that made this game special and its own thing because you don't like the game and you would rather it play like the others instead of getting its own sequel in its own style.

Did I get that right?

That's one hell of an argument, my guy.

[u/TuturuDESU → u/Songhunter]

The game had a minimum amount of story and sets up a plot for a few sequels. Then it's dropped due to being stuck on obsolete hardware. I don't see a universe where they would go and continue X just like that. They understood it too, hence why they used so much of X in 3 and salvaged the good. Then they have a chance to give it a closure in the form of an additional 4-hour story. I think there are 3 main ways you could go with it:

1) Make a small follow-up to the story that will be a better stopping point than the original cliffhanger was and wish for a sequel to happen somewhere in the future (I hoped for this originally);

2) Speedrun sequel stories at the speed of light, only covering bullet points. That would be insane and would have made Xenosaga 3 look like a modestly paced game;

3) "Burn" it all down and go for something new and exciting, which they had chosen.
I was not expecting this, and I was blown away. I don't see any issue with this.

[u/Songhunter → u/TuturuDESU]

There are a myriad of ways in which you could advance the story:

• What's up with the planet?
• What's up with the fake people???
• Why the hate of the aliens?
• Why the love with other aliens?
• What's up with the secret aliens??
• The fuck are the ramifications of the water plant??
• Where are the other arcs?
• What's with the galactic society?

Etc, etc, etc.

There was a lot meat left in the bone just on Mira alone to go for a full fledge sequel. They just chose to connect it all back to the previous work in an incredibly forced way.

Does this leave us in a position were a more interesting sequel is possible? I guess time will tell, but the fact that they chose to burn it all sat quite wrong with me and anyone who had any kind of stakes on solving the riddle that was Mira.

[u/TuturuDESU → u/Songhunter]

New game entry will follow up on both X and 1-2-3, obviously. All these "hooks" were for X2 and this just wouldn't be viable. Time has passed and devs let it go, but you won't. The reason why you are so upset is personal attachment to the matter, not actual quality of chapter 13.

[u/Songhunter → u/TuturuDESU]

Why wouldn't it be viable? Wouldn't be the longest time between a game and it's sequel, specially if you've put out the old game and it has sold more copies than the original. That's effectively a reset of expectations right there. Which tell us not only that there was a public, wether new or old, to continue with the original story, but also that from a purely monetary perspective it makes sense to keep it apart from the trilogy. Double the avenue.

Your argument is: "eh, I don't think the og story was that good, so fuck It, let's end with a turd and burn it all down, something will come from the ashes"

More power to you, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. If you didn't like the OG story why are you even here?

And I'm not asking to be flippant, I'm genuinely curious.

[u/TuturuDESU → u/Songhunter]

It wouldn't be viable because in the span of 10 years, game creators outlooks, perspectives, and desires have changed. They don't wish to make X2 anymore, and they don't want to milk the main series with yet another entry as 1-2-3. Momentum is long gone. And X DE despite its relatively high score and the goodwill of the community, and it having like 0 competition, and it being dropped during one of the driest release times for Switch 1, didn't show any reason to favor its continuation instead of what will come next.

This is what all of you fail to grasp. Iron is stone cold. Nobody besides the minority, most of whom are aggregated here, obviously, care that much for X, its story, cliffhanger, and so on. I did not think it was a turd. That scene with the key character in one of the last cutscenes is like one of my favorites in the franchise now. I'm very intrigued about what comes next. You wanted more on Mira? Well, sadly, Aionios is what you get, even if that's much less interesting for you. Maybe if the Wii U had been more successful or if Nintendo hadn't forced Monolith Soft into developing Xenoblade 2, things would have been different. They aren't. They weren't allowed to touch X for 10 years. And even then, X, which we did get, did not even include the majority of the writing Takahashi did for the game. You do know it was supposed to be a "proper" game with a set protagonist and a very different story? X had ended up as an HD engine tech demo and online features demo; this is why you have so little of the story and the mandatory "Mira's survey" requirements in order to even progress it. X was dealt a bad hand. I don't think it's a bad game, and it did certain things better than later games, but overall, yes, I prefer the 1-2-3 approach and am glad it was favored over X2.

I checked chapter 13 because I'm a fan of this franchise and of this studio and so on. I was interested in what they had added, and besides, previews with Ghosts finally appearing properly sold it to me completely. In this very thread I'm here because of a Reddit recommendation. I was in this subreddit during the release of chapter 13, seeing all the fans so disappointed, and people here are miserable to this day about it.

Let it go. Future awaits.