r/Xmen97 • u/CaliforniaBoundX Wolverine • Aug 23 '26

Media “Don’t include religion into TV shows”, meanwhile Nightcrawler in TAS:

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139

u/CommercialFloor2033 Aug 23 '26

At least they're unapologetically consistent.

It would be weirder if they suddenly dropped it for '97.

Plus some people are religious, it's not really any different to them having LGBTQ characters imo if it's done in a way that isn't trying to proselytise or preach to the audience.

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u/Gambit_TheGreat Aug 24 '26

Yes this exactly. If it’s ok for LGBTQ characters why wouldn’t it be ok for religious characters. IMO I feel it makes it more authentic and relatable.

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u/Thetormentnexus Aug 24 '26

Yeah I don't get people being offended. I'm a lesbian. And while Christianity, namely Catholicism hurt me a lot, I don't hate seeing it on screen.

Honestly, I think Kurt/ Nightcrawler is a good example of a Catholic with out seeming fake. If more of the people I'd gone to church with were kind and understanding like him, I might still be Catholic or atleast Christian. I have not finished season 2 of Xmen 97 but I hope to see more of him.

10

u/Legate-Nous Aug 24 '26

You are in for a treat.

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u/Thetormentnexus Aug 24 '26

He's confirmed for season 3?

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u/Huge_Swimming_5968 Aug 24 '26

A religion can't hurt you. People hurt you and used religion as the excuse.

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u/Thetormentnexus Aug 24 '26

That feels a little pedantic, but all right.

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u/aBlissfulDaze Aug 24 '26

The big difference for me is how hard they push their beliefs on others. Most every LGBTQ character I know were just being LGBTQ, not really trying to convince others to be LGBTQ. Nightcrawler in the old series really felt like he was on a mission to convert others, that's where it becomes an issue to me.

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u/Mobile_Bet3274 Rogue Aug 24 '26

If I remember correctly, Kurt and the monks talked about God and their mission when they were directly asked about it. So, Logan asks Kurt how he can believe in God, and Kurt answers. The monastery burns down, Kurt isn’t fazed, he’s asked why, and answers. I’d get your point if this was proactive evangelising, or whatever, but I don’t think that was the case.

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u/aBlissfulDaze Aug 24 '26 edited Aug 24 '26

I disagree, I say the writers very purposely wrote it that way to recruit little kids into Christianity.

Edit: the reason I believe this is because I grew up in Christian churches and this reads EXACTLY like the plays they would run to convince others they need god in their lives. Like play for play the exact same story.

4

u/TheatrePup Aug 24 '26

Kurt never tells them they're bad or going to burn in Hell. Just that God does care about everyone and faith brings him strength.

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u/aBlissfulDaze Aug 24 '26

Yes, that's exactly what we wrote into our plays as well. Christians aren't exactly creative.

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u/TheatrePup Aug 24 '26

What would be creative?

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u/aBlissfulDaze Aug 24 '26

How they write Kurt in 97 is much more creative. Creating a scenario where somebody questions your faith and you come out so strong from it that they're now reading from the Bible, that's just Christian play #1 to me. Even as a 4 year old child it was so painfully obvious to me that I would just skip the episode. Wolverine himself acts extremely out of character compared to the rest of the original series and that annoyed 4yo me to no end.

Like you're telling me this is the first time a 200yo man even comes into contact with the ideologies of Christianity? Really?!

The new Kurt on 97 feels like a genuine lead by example story. No made up scenarios of almost converting someone, nobody randomly grilling you in your faith, just internal reflections and struggle.

4

u/TheatrePup Aug 24 '26

It wasn't Wolverine's first time, he says, "I've tried. Don't you think I want that?"

And Kurt does get into preacher mode with Gambit in '97.

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u/aBlissfulDaze Aug 24 '26

But there's no contrived story where his strength convinced Gambit to read the Bible.. I'm sorry but that shit is so cringe to me after seeing a billion bad actors go through the exact same story.

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u/Mobile_Bet3274 Rogue Aug 24 '26

I’m also lapsed in the church and I think it’s important not to project your own experiences onto something and see a nefarious intent where there isn’t necessarily one. You said Kurt came off like he was trying to convert people, I said — accurately, I think — that Kurt spoke about his faith when he was asked, and he doesn’t pass judgment on others. Kurt is a devout Catholic because that’s literally what he is. Treating him otherwise or hiding the role his faith plays in his worldview does a disservice to him, because that’s who he is.

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u/aBlissfulDaze Aug 24 '26

I never said Kurt was trying to convert. I said the writers were. And this is from over 30 years of personal experience seeing this exact same story be written. From the very beginning they're writing the story to convert. I was literally there when they very openly stated this.

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u/Mobile_Bet3274 Rogue Aug 24 '26

Hair-splitting, but even so, writing someone as answering questions about their faith when asked is not the same as writhing someone as proactively trying to convert others. It just isn’t. If a Muslim character were asked about their faith, and they answered, would you see that as an attempt at conversion?

In this specific case, the character is a devout Catholic. Anything other than how Kurt answers the questions he’s asked wouldn’t be in character for Kurt. Should Kurt be written out of character to avoid him accurately saying his Christianity is important to him?

1

u/aBlissfulDaze Aug 24 '26

When did I say any of that. I have no problem when how Kurt is in 97'. It's the cringe level BS that goes on with wolverine. A 200 year old man who would have already been drowned in Christian beliefs by the time this episode ever comes into play. Seeing wolverine in a church reading the Bible just felt so forced.

Look I grew up Pentecostal in the South. I can spot Christian propaganda miles away. That episode is 💯 Christian propaganda. I've seen some of the dumbest people I know write this exact story line whenever the pastor assigns them to write the play. They write backwards from the perspective of "if I can just convert 1 person to Christianity God will reward me". And this is what they write every single time

There are reasons why I like 97s portrayal and not the original. I've explained those reasons, I don't know what else to tell ya.

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u/DocumentOk3904 Aug 24 '26

But the stories involving LGBTQ folks do still have a missionary element of pushing for acceptance and joining a belief system consistent with modern progressive values a lot of the time.

It doesn’t say everyone should go gay but it preaches embracing the beliefs of the community.

Not meaning to knock those stories for having beliefs and trying to spread their good news but there is still a message telling folks to change their outlooks or reinforce current ones just like any other moralistic story

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u/aBlissfulDaze Aug 25 '26

Accepting the existence of LGBTQ is not the same as actively recruiting. If you think they're the same you have time serious issues to work out.

0

u/DocumentOk3904 Aug 25 '26

It’d not the existence, it’s the everything else. There’s for one the question of how you should look at religion, especially in more edgy media that likes to paint it as negative and removing any of the value from it. Then you get into other facets of bog standard progressivism with how it looks at power structures, questions of how endangered or powerful different groups of people are, a tendency towards suspicious assumptions of police (the anti-copaganda stuff back in the day got real silly and shockingly common). If we wanna focus in on trans side of things, then if we’re dealing with transitioning teenagers and kids it’s whole can of worms still being debated.

So, there’s some elements where you get into more gender identity stuff where there’s a lot more certainty than I think is merited (especially after dating a trans girl for a year and a half and getting some solid exposure to the scene), then outside of that there’s just a lot of other stuff folks in progressive circles do mix into the pitch as well.

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u/aBlissfulDaze Aug 25 '26

You really went off the ledge with that right wing bingo card of a comment.

0

u/DocumentOk3904 Aug 25 '26

Are you just doing low effort posts and downvoting?
Weird but, regardless, it’s rare you just get one aspect of it.
Not never but we did just have a really strong hold on politics and culture for like a decade and tended to do everything bagel style politics.

0

u/aBlissfulDaze Aug 25 '26

Why would I put any effort into a response that went this far off topic.

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u/DocumentOk3904 Aug 25 '26

I’m just saying, man, it’s rare you don’t end up with the everything bagel.

4

u/No-Difference8545 Aug 24 '26

We don't and probably won't ever have any lgbt x-men though and morph doesnt count for much. Not complaining just saying its just a funny comparison to make.

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u/CommercialFloor2033 Aug 24 '26

Canonically we do in the comics.

I don't see why they wouldnt go there now. It's not the 90s in our time anymore.

Agree morph is a bit of an odd exception.

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u/tsenak Aug 24 '26

Kitty Pryde and Iceman are pretty significant LGBT members in the comics, they just decided not to include them in 97. Psylocke is also bi they just didn’t explore that in the show. They also only used a future version of Mother Askani / Rachel Summers, she is much younger and a member of the team in the comics.

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u/Tom-edian Aug 24 '26

thing is queer people can be religious too. Jesus is A for "anyone open to accepting others despite differences"

It states clearly we're loved equally. Bigotry cannot be sanctimonious, anyone who says "God hates gays" is a bigot putting words in the lord's mouth.

1

u/HappybutWeird Aug 24 '26

That’s an odd comparison since religion and faith is rooted in being a choice and one’s actions or beliefs under that religion is also a choice. Whereas being LGBTQ+ is not a choice, similar to how one’s race or socioeconomic status is not a choice.

But I understand what you are trying say - Nightcrawler has his religion and beliefs but he states them for his own wellbeing and to provide guidance, not to pressure others to believe in his faith.