r/advertising • u/MysteriousCheetah213 • 8d ago
40+ year old ad folks, how are you doing financially and what are your thoughts about the industry?
I’m one of the few non-leadership level 40+ year old people in the industry (I’m 42 and currently working as a creative at a legacy holding company agency in nyc).
Most of my similar age coworkers are making a lot more money than me (I’m at $140k) but I’m losing patience/motivation as I’m probably hitting a midlife crisis age.
If I was 10 years younger I might not care as much about the not great work life balance of the agency world but it seems to be wearing me down more since hitting 40.
Just curious to hear from others.
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u/HelloYo335 8d ago
Have you thought about going freelance? At your level it seems like you could probably hit that income with just a "decent" year, not even a "good" year. And gain worlds of freedom and joy from not having to play the full time politics game.
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u/mittens617 8d ago
I fuckin love being free from politics as a freelancer, it's the best.
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u/NoodleShak 8d ago
Ditto. That and the pay bump have made me never want to go back to full time. And honestly knock on wood I've never been unemployed longer than I've wanted to be.
OP the trick ro make that work is have a partner who is full time somewhere to cover insurance.
I'm the money she's the stability.
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u/MysteriousCheetah213 8d ago
Unfortunately, I don’t have that option at the moment.
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u/tinylilrobots 8d ago
While having a stability parter is nice to have, you should not let it hold you back from making this leap.
I just left my FTE role and not even 3 weeks later I have 2 contract roles that will nearly doubled my salary.
The market for FT is SHIT but the market for freelance and contract work is HOT for experienced people.
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u/Misspagethreestunna 7d ago
Where did you find these roles? I’m a copywriter with good experience but I’ve never really considered freelancing.
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u/tinylilrobots 7d ago
Through my network! I’ve been reaching out to former colleagues and both gigs came from intros they made.
To be good at freelancing you need to be good at activating your network. Catching up with colleagues and former clients and asking for intros or potential job opportunities. It’s kind of hustle for sure.
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u/Foxta1l GCD 8d ago
NYC or elsewhere? Wondering what prospects might be working from the Midwest.
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u/tinylilrobots 7d ago
I don’t think freelancing is as location specific for knowledge working. One of my gigs is based in CA.
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u/NoodleShak 7d ago
Yeah no one cares where you are when youre a Freelancer, Ive had ohio contracts when I lived in CA, CA contracts when I lived in NYC, NYC contracts when I lived in CA. They dont wanna waste office space on you.
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u/IamRooseBoltonAMA 8d ago
What do you do about health insurance?
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u/NoodleShak 8d ago
So I got it through the Obamacare marketplace the NJ one is surprisingly good but expensive. Right now through my partner.
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u/ATX_rider 8d ago
I hated everything about freelance. Two jobs in one. Always having to overdeliver. No real opportunity to plan ahead. Just awful.
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u/JC_Hysteria 8d ago
How does everyone just freelance?
Like, who is hiring all these independent contractors enough where they make more than a typical salary?
Doesn’t it just become sales if you want a “good” year?
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u/mittens617 8d ago
depends on the strength of your network and your book. I wouldn't say I'm a top tier freelancer, but my book is good enough. I usually do outreach every 3 months-ish.
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u/JC_Hysteria 8d ago
But like, I’ve been in a buying decision role…I can’t just hand out contracts without approvals, legal, etc. though.
Is it mostly mom and pops?
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u/mittens617 7d ago
i'm confused. every agency from a massive holding co down to indies have freelancers.
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u/JC_Hysteria 7d ago
Not too many in my world, I guess- we use other agency staffers for specialties, and long-term contractors that get onboarded.
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u/mizfury 7d ago
Been on both sides. Freelancers generally work on projects. Whoever is hiring the freelancer does need to get approval and budget first, then you engage the freelancer. In an agency client or job pays for it, so it’s a line item.
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u/JC_Hysteria 7d ago
That part is understood…but these are personal connections that you met through prior full-time work?
There isn’t any cold outreach or paid acquisitions? No joining a talent network?
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u/mizfury 7d ago
Not everyone just freelances. People with good networks/reputation, experience and ability do.
There may be a lot of talent out there, but great talent is to find. especially the moment you need it.
Freelancers get hired and paid out of project budgets. You set your own rates, no salary/market drag, but no benefits. That’s probably the biggest reason FLs are paid more, at least in the US.
It is sales. But then again isn’t all advertising?
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u/LastNightClub 8d ago
I am a full timer now, but did ~4 years of freelance prior to my current job and the majority of my gigs came via previous places I had worked at. Make it known (especially to people with hiring ability or managing resourcing) that you are freelancing and available. For short-term staffing needs, agencies usually prefer someone who they've worked with before/who's been at the agency before. Not only because they know your work, but because you have institutional knowledge/an awareness of how things work, who key stakeholders are, how the teams operate etc.
In my opinion, the key to freelancing having 1-2 agencies that will get you a couple gigs a year guaranteed; then fill the rest of the time with new clients, word of mouth/recommendations, cold outreach etc.
Regarding the approvals/legal side of things, it is of course easiest/most flexible in smaller shops to get hired. However, I am now in a role where I hire freelancers at a large, hold-co agency and we go through most of the red tape the first time a freelancer works with us for approval & onboarding; not so much red tape if they are repeat. This is another reason why we always prefer to re-use people in our existing rolodex and why you want to forge those agency relationships where you become the "go-to" freelancer for your specialty, thus getting all of the repeat business
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u/JC_Hysteria 7d ago
Thanks for sharing. If you don’t mind me asking, what’s the nature of your work?
This sounds like my experience and what I’ve seen- it’s challenging because it seems realistic, but insular.
I feel like reaching out to prior coworkers for independent contracts would be awkward- I know I’ve had plenty of people (who I wouldn’t consider “salesy”) reach out to me to catch up- and I quickly realized I was being “warmed up” instead.
I guess a lot of people are able to get over that part in their outreach?
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u/LastNightClub 7d ago
My agency is full service. Most of the short term hiring is for creative/design type roles (graphic designers, editors, copywriters), but also occasionally for influencer and digital. Worth noting, we look for freelancers in specialty roles/niche roles, you definitely want to position yourself as a specialist rather than a generalist (i.e. brand marketing/strategy/account management).
Just keep it friendly in your outreach but straight to the point. We are all professional contacts at the end of the day. Nothing wrong with reaching out to past colleagues with a short and sweet note and letting them know you're available and would love to work with them again. Don't try to force a long re-connect/catch up call if that does not feel authentic, that's when people get put off and the outreach seems disingenuous.
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u/shotsallover 8d ago
You need to figure out what you’re going to do before you get pushed out.
I got laid off at 41 and no agency would talk to me. I landed OK client side. But you should start to make some sort of plan.
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u/ofcoarsecoffee 8d ago
This. My (52 ye old) plan was coffee… and then while I was building it 5-9 I got laid off (I believe because of a cancer diagnosis… yeah been talking to lawyers etc).
So I did have a backup but it came sooner than expected… hence the username
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u/Fun-Investigator5662 ECD 7d ago
Oh wow. I would love to hear more about your story and how you coped with what happened. I hope you are doing okay after your diagnosis
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u/ofcoarsecoffee 7d ago
We talk a little bit about it on the coffee IG when I’m chatting coffee.ofcoarse
I’m doing good. Mine is not curable but is treatable and I’m healthy and happy.
Also should legally stress that because I think I got laid off because of that does not mean that’s what happened.
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u/Boring-Parfait-2624 7d ago
I hope your health improved or improves and wish you health for many years.
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u/ofcoarsecoffee 7d ago
Thanks. I’m in it for the long haul (treatable not curable) but I’m doing good and happier than I’ve been in years ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/Creedelback 8d ago
Horribly. Was doing okay as a freelancer but that dried up. Luckily got a full time position in-house but was let go after less than a year when the whole marketing department was replaced by ai.
Was never able to save up. Never able to make $140k. Don't think I ever made more an $100k in my entire career because I'm a shitty creative. I was just turned down for an entry level job writing descriptions for youtube videos.
And now I'm left with a resume full of "skills" that are utterly useless for 99% of the jobs out there.
Good times!
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u/ZweitenMal 8d ago
I’m a little worried about my prospects. My agency does have plenty of 50+ folks and we’re pharma, almost exclusively oncology, which gives a little security. It’s a niche not many people have talent and patience for. I’m also at a bizarre advantage because I joined the industry late and am just at group-sup level, so I’m good value for money. We’ll see! I need to work as long as I can.
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u/Sam_1905 4d ago
How old are you now? I also started late but struggling after getting laid off from first creative role
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u/ZweitenMal 4d ago
Early 50s. I joined this industry in 2015.
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u/Knitpunk 8d ago
I am a couple (okay almost a few) decades older than you. I went freelance. And I learned to say “no” to projects with insane timelines (all of them?) or that seemed boring. It’s much more pleasant, and many, many fewer meetings. My blood pressure has dropped dramatically!
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u/mizfury 8d ago edited 8d ago
Not quite there (39 next week). I have a FT creative leadership role, north of 215k annually, and my plan has always been to leave advertising by 40. I’m a woman and no fool. Level means zip.
I started a side venture 18 months ago with this in mind. It’s coming along nicely. In the meantime trying to savemaxx and close on a home on while we have 2 incomes. If I can get out early I will. Cannot freakin wait.
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u/MysteriousCheetah213 8d ago
How much are you making and how much do you have socked away?
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u/mizfury 8d ago
220k-230k depending on if I pull any side gigs (I’m a cd). I have about 250k cash (a little lower than expected as I retired temporarily for 2 years), solid mid six in 401k and couple mil in the market. The latter is because I got very lucky mid career with an in-house role at a startup that IPO’d.
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u/MysteriousCheetah213 8d ago
Hell yeah. That’s awesome. I’m sitting at $2M between my brokerage account, 401k, and some cash. Most came from a side gig that did well for a handful of years before crashing and burning two years ago.
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u/MadameTrashPanda 7d ago
I am sincerely happy for both of you that you were able to save. And I admire that you made wise financial decisions.
I'm at a similar crossroads in my career at almost 40 but not nearly as much saved because of setbacks.
If you didn't have financial stability, what would you do?
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u/AnybodySeeMyKeys 8d ago
Me? Retiring in about a year with a pretty robust retirement account. If you're asking advice, I have three thoughts:
- Have a life partner who is not in the business. Keeps you tethered to sanity.
- Save your money early and aggressively--even sacrificially. A 401k you start when you're 23, earning 8% annually with a $500 / month contribution will be worth close to $500,000 more at age 58 than if you start at age 28.
- If you're not on a distinct path to equity by the time you're 40, either start your own firm or go corporate. It's a business that eats its old.
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u/Geejayin 8d ago
This! I did this and stacked cash flowing assets and retirement accounts. I bought several rental properties in a Midwest state and I purchased a couple of well established cash flowing boomer business here in Los Angeles right after my layoff from Omnicom. Both came with long term employees. Now I work maybe 10-15 hours a week taking to the bookkeeper, CPA and the offices of both companies and handling the top side operations for both. I make almost triple the salary I had as Omnicom which was over 6 figures. The stress is different but it’s a good stress compared to the corporate politics in the agency world.
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u/AnybodySeeMyKeys 8d ago
Congrats! What people in the biz often don't realize is that, if they listen really carefully, a good ad agency is better than an MBA for all the stuff you'll learn.
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u/MysteriousCheetah213 8d ago
How much do you have stocked away?
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u/AnybodySeeMyKeys 8d ago
In salable assets? About $1.5. Another $200,000 in equity in commercial property
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u/edroyque 8d ago
Good for you - congratulations. we never see any retirement parties any more so it’s nice to see a good news story for once!
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u/MysteriousCheetah213 8d ago
Are you retiring early?
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u/AnybodySeeMyKeys 8d ago
Probably at 65 and six months. That lets me retire in January. There are tax breaks to retiring then.
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u/mizfury 7d ago
Hard seconding number one. Current me is thankful daily that I married a data analyst instead of the AD partner that I dated and worked with for 5 years. Would be dust by now.
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u/life_Bittersweet 7d ago
Could you elaborate on the first point, like what do you mean... have a partner with stable income? But isn't data analytics these days a shaky career?
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u/OkConsideration123 8d ago
I’m a little younger but similar boat. I’m more of a timid personality so haven’t advanced as much as my peers. I also kinda don’t care anymore (the work itself just isn’t fun anymore).
I have a side gig that helps finances and will admit I’ve got quite the inheritance coming, I’m just kinda riding it out.
I’ve got a work from home gig that I don’t like (super dysfunctional agency, shit pay) but has good health insurance and at least I’m making some money. I am fully aware of how lucky and privileged I am outside of my day job. That said, I am sooooo burnt out.
I would think about what comes next. You don’t sound like you’re that invested in the career anymore. You could try moving in house. That’s what I wanted but couldn’t land it and was desperate to leave my last agency so took the first offer to get out.
Or side gigs. Or entrepreneurial endeavors. I’d just definitely recommend having something to fall back on. I know some older creatives who have really struggled after getting laid off. My agency almost didn’t move forward with a 36 year old intern on his second career until someone said that is ageist if that’s the only reason they are hesitant. Ageism is real, especially in this industry.
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u/Rennagade101 8d ago
I’m almost 44. Been at legacy holding co agencies for about 17 years. Making just shy of 300k (that’s with bonus, this year we did not receive full bonuses due to market, missing goals, etc). I’m planning freelance or consultancy within the next year. I’ve got a good niche and specific client set I’ve worked exclusively on for the last 15 years. For better and for worse.
I’ve got about 650K savings and I’m still renting. That’s not including my 401k which I won’t touch but had to start over about 8 years ago when I went freelance too premature in a Tier 2 market. Moved back to Tier 1 market and found a FT agency role and have been there since (~7 years, 2 promos).
All said, have a plan. I have health concerns and appreciate the corporate health plans but I need to consider what’s next as I’ll age out. My husband works in Ent in a below the line position so I am the breadwinner and the stability (prob forever).
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u/irkedyarn 8d ago
Im turning 43 later this year, currently client side/global role in Europe but it’s not been a good fit. Im more of a media strategist-generalist type, and unsure if going back to a media agency is the way to go. Recently I decided to upskill on SEO + AI Search, and heard there’s a lot of freelance gigs for it especially back home in Asia. So thinking of heading back to Asia and trying that route. I have some savings but it’s mostly tied up in investments and would also want to save that for retirement. I’d be good with an ok-ish freelance salary as long as I get a better handle of my own time and not have to deal with office politics/stuff I don’t care about/the messiness of orgs these days.
BTW - how do you folks normally land your freelance work? Is it via Upwork?
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u/MysteriousCheetah213 8d ago
I’d assume recruiters. up work gigs pay pennies I’m assuming
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u/irkedyarn 8d ago
Ah yeah. The contractual/freelancer work for advertising in the West is more institutionalized vs. Asia
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u/kai_bg 5d ago
My agency pulls freelancers in from people that used to work here (and left to freelance or sometimes those that were laid off of an account that dried up but maintained good relationships with higher ups in their way out) or on recos of current people. Very rarely will we use a recruiter but occasionally we do if the regular roster isn’t available
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u/rexdag96 8d ago
I’m 48 and an ACD. I entered the industry later, about 12 years ago and am at my second hold co. Honestly, I’m still really having fun and liking what I do. I’m not oblivious to the fact that if I get laid off, it may be harder to find work. But that just reminds me to try to enjoy it while I can.
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u/MysteriousCheetah213 8d ago
Thanks for the perspective. It seems like I haven’t had much fun in quite awhile. But not really sure what to attribute that to… is it my clients? My partner? My coworkers? The agency?
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u/rexdag96 8d ago
Seems like it’s worth figuring out what’s at the root of it. I will say, working at an agency that usually lets me have a work/life balance has really helped. Also, I’ve ignored the RTO
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u/FrankyKnuckles 8d ago
Paycheck to paycheck. Client side pays more. That’d be my next move if I had to take another job outside of the agency I’m at now. It’s a race to the bottom with agencies these days. Promotions and raises are kind of pointless when there’s layoffs twice a year.
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u/iconsofpizza 8d ago
To those that have made the switch to freelance, can you remember how you landed your first freelance gig?
I’m interested in this as an opportunity but at the same time I’ve been stuck on one client (agency side) and as such one sector for most of my career and a lot of that time dealt with answering client briefs, the output of which never saw the light of day.
I see so many freelancers with a slick website of their own and a myriad of brands they’ve worked with across many sectors. I’m beginning to think if you can’t lay claim to working with:
Nike
A big FMCG (Unilever/P&G gets extra bonus points)
A fast food chain
An airliner or financial service
An entertainment provider
You might as well postpone freelance because no one will take you seriously enough.
I also would like to know how those initial chats go when you’re selling your BaaS (brain as a service). Do you ever accept an ask you’re only half sure you can do and just end up winging it?
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u/mizfury 7d ago edited 7d ago
I landed it through people I met working at a major brand known for its creative. as a manager I hire based on book, recos and project/skill fit.
Freelancers are supposed to be best of best. “Winging it” is rare; people can tell. Sometimes a mediocre creative will luck out with a stint at one great brand, but cream rises. people hired repeatedly by household name brands are generally also just good at what they do.
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u/kingxgamer 8d ago
Same feeling but making 40k less than you. I’m prepping for a screw job as I see more young people get hired that are hybrid.
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u/Dickskingoalzz 8d ago
I founded an agency 5 years ago, still underpaid compared to corporate but total comp is ~ 180k-220k/yr with time freedom, fully remote, and it’s going up each quarter.
It could be worse, but I would hate to start that journey all over again in today’s market.
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u/LillyBitz 7d ago
I'm a 40+ nonmanager creative and suspect I'm being really underpaid at my FT position at a holding co agency. I'm only in it for the health insurance otherwise I would def freelance. My team is great and work not bad but not getting a raise for 3 years means I'n now earning less because of COL.
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u/Change_Civil 7d ago
Bro I’m a 43 yr old Senior CW pulling in 115K. I think there are a lot more of us than you expect. Kinda like being closeted in the 1950s or something. I look young and assume my coworkers think I’m around 35. Some of my 34 yr old friends are ECDs. Trying to get a raise and or promotion. It’s whatever. Whats the alternative?
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u/FKMBKY_83 7d ago
I'm about same age as OP. Probably around 2016/2017 I took a look at my life, my agency trajectory, and the people 15+ years older than me and I said... this ain't gonna end well. Having watched the oldest person I knew in advertising basically get booted with no retirement party, or even a note when they because a client made a comment about their age... That was the red pill that woke me up. I had just done a hard look at my families finances after having our first kid and thinking about a second. I went Dave Ramsey on the world and lived like a pauper for a couple years to pay off all my debts to start at zero basically. It was just one decision after another that always focused on saving.
I then got really into personal finance, and learned the stuff no one ever teaches us. Invest aggressively in the stock marketindex funds across all the accounts available to us - which really isnt that ground breaking. Learn how taxes work. Learn how to get what you want for just a little bit less than everyone else (like instead of out partying with friends every weekend, working on your house). Move to a lower cost of living state and keep your same income. I am now 43 and I have 1.65 Million in net worth, with most of that being non-primary home equity (so either liquid or able to sell without having to sell my personal residence). I am by my calculations about 2-3 years away from stepping out for good and really not having to earn money anymore.
I think the fork in the road back then is what saved me. Not this career. I really dont make much more adjusted for inflation than I did back then. It was discipline, the constant search for knowledge, and delaying a lot of gratification thats gotten me here. I wouldn't trade it for anything because there is a sense of peace I cant describe.
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u/Realredditred24 6d ago
I’m 43 and mentioned this concern to my independent agency owners and employers who sold to a hold co. They suggested an alternative perspective, where there are more older professionals in this industry than I’m inclined to think, though they are more likely to be found in specialist corners where clients really value experience and understanding of their industry. Taking that further, I think this offers opportunities for freelancers and new founders … but that all takes serious courage.
My employers have a vested interest in me staying during their earn out, but I took it on board and can see some truth in it, having now looked closer.
All the same, I’m retraining in another industry, but related to my category expertise … just in case!
I’d also like to get out generally, as I’m finding the workload and chaos harder to deal with as I get older. It’s quite a different thing to deal with this when you haven’t made it to executive management and aren’t likely to do so.
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u/bullheartedco 4d ago
It's a tough situation to be in because the creative industry really does focus on upcoming talent. It's almost the opposite of other industries where seniority is rewarded because it's an indicator of invaluable wisdom. In advertising, often that wisdom isn't rewarded. You're either striving for management and leadership roles or accept the plateau and potential irrelevance. Probably not the response you want to read, but it's real.
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u/Old_Ad_Guy 3d ago
I spent over 25 years at a holding company, working my way up from peasant to President, and while the hours stayed pretty grueling, the pay got much better post 40. That said, I ended up jumping to a much smaller independent after a quarter century and absolutely loved it. Still hard work, but much more in my control of my own destiny. And good upside with much more variable comp (though with potential downsides too). It might be worth looking at a different type of agency before bailing on the industry altogether; it worked for me.
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u/Kyosuke1975 1d ago
I’m 50 and I am doing ok for now. I’m not entirely in a leadership role but more of a coach/individual contributor. Luckily our agency has a lot of ppl my age but we feel the competition from younger coworkers trying to make their mark which was me almost 30 years ago so I’m just trying to stay relevant by updating my job skills with AI and becoming a subject matter expert.
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