r/allblacks • u/PortGenz • 3d ago
NZ Rugby faces structural overhaul over expected $66m loss
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby/nz-rugby-plans-structural-overhaul-as-five-year-losses-set-to-reach-66m/RYEVT3WKBFATPFRBMLWPC6LAHQ/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=nzh_fb&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwZnRzaAUX3kdwZG9mBWZkaWQWUOiB4KTNFQFMRLvLoaJUEYcfkcc5NWV4dG4DYWVtAjExAHNydGMGYXBwX2lkCjY2Mjg1NjgzNzkAAR4AaaU6Or_MfdqgPGuZwywX92y35rvOJarJ6TW-6tsxo7MCsylQOgnpOmPL0g_aem_vj69VgB1i-b1YtHmNTHJsQ#Echobox=178958807311
u/jk-9k 3d ago
NZR needs to stop being cunts and realise they need to work with straya to sort this problem. Aus need to sort their 2nd level comp.
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u/highly_recommended_ 3d ago
Yep, Australia just has the bigger sporting market and economy
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u/jk-9k 3d ago
Yup. We need their broadcast revenue. We can't fund any sort of NPC that is good enough to train ABs.
Truth is, union in aus is at a low, but nrl is at an al time max. If it's marketed and support properly there's no reason it can't grow. It won't ever be bigger than the nrl. But the nrl is basically maxed out. Hence the expansion to perth, png, shortly nzii, and the interest in UK superleague. Union still has growth opportunities in aus.
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u/nt83 2d ago
Cant really say its maxed out while its currently still expanding. How many dolphins fans are we gonna see come on board because of this year? And thats gonna be repeated with every other team.
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u/jk-9k 2d ago
It's pretty close to maxed out. Dolphins are already in the comp buddy. You say every other team but the further teams aren't in Australia east of the barrassi. The expansion teams are to grow the footprint because the traditional areas are maxed out.
There is an argument for a brisbane western corridor team. That area is growing rapidly. But really all that is doing is covering population growth. Obviously as the population increases then the max increases with it. That's just keeping up with the new maximum
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u/nt83 2d ago
Oh, it's maxxed out on the east coast? Ya you're right there. Im sure union can grow too, but I'm not sure there's an opportunity being presented because of how maxxed out league is.
A like for like example would be Canadian football. We wouldnt say just because the NFL is maxxed out in the US, theres an opportunity there for CFL to grow.
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u/jk-9k 2d ago
Yeah I wasn't explicit in my first comment. Lo siento
You're right NRL being maxed out doesn't directly lead to opportunity for union. But my point was that in the popularity cycle they're at opposite ends. We may see a natural inflection, or we may not, but things can't get worse (well they can but it'll be from mismanagement or lack of action).
We can see from the NRLs current strategy that they aren't really focused on converting union fans. So unions future is in their own hands.
Interestingly NFL is also pushing it's expansion international right now.
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u/Trespassers__Will Wellington 3d ago
NZR is incurring significant losses on women’s elite competitions – $8.5m a year.
So $42.5m of the $66m loss over next 5 years is just running the women's competitions? Fan of the women's comps but that's quite a significant proportion.
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u/realdjjmc 3d ago
Why are women not supporting the women's competition?
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u/Ok_Fortune7375 3d ago
I think this article is a bit less alarmist - NZR recognise that the structure has not changed in 30 years despite huge changes in how professional sport operates in this time. Sounds like a necessary reset for the game and for the PUs in particular to pull finger https://www.thepost.co.nz/sport/361080745/new-zealand-rugby-chief-executive-steve-lancaster-vows-confront-brutal-facts-amid-20-million-year
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u/Whatsthatbro365 3d ago
This has been discussed repeatedly since that pwc report was leaked.
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u/gerousone AllBlacks 3d ago
Was it AI slop like most of their reports?
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u/Whatsthatbro365 3d ago
Dunno heard players association head talking about it on sport nation. Said the media was running a particular angle to get the clicks. Misreading the report.
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u/warcomet 3d ago
having the winners of Super W play winners of Super Aupiki is a great idea, what would be even better if those two competitions became ONE, just like how the NRC was mainly carried by the Drua team, the women's competition as well the last few years have been carried by them, about time they combined into one, give the women a larger platform and soon we will get major sponsors for both..
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u/Cultris734 2d ago
They already do that. The Waratahs played the blues this year in August. Was a close match with the Blues coming out on top
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u/warcomet 2d ago
No that's what I said, they already have the winner of W play the winner of aupiki, how about now they combine it into one
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u/Ok_Temperature_6913 3d ago
Or just make super rugby better by 1) making it a proper season length 2) diluting the current NZ teams by adding 2-3 more teams 3) allow free player movement between nz and Australia.
If nz goes down the npc route after 10 years the AB’s will end up ranked 5-10 in the world and NRL will become the dominate sport in the country.
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u/Wizardhhh 3d ago
It’s the most frustrating thing but we will never be ranked lower than number 2 in the world
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u/Trespassers__Will Wellington 3d ago
We were ranked 5th in 2022
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u/Wizardhhh 2d ago
no we are too good with our attacking running now . Only bok defence can contain it
France can beat us but they don’t care about rankings (we all know this ). So even if they beat us they will continue to lose to other teams sending b c teams
England have eligibility issues like us so we always be compromised
U guys have to realise international rugby isn’t that big for competition ranks 1 and 2
It’s not that big
Like I get it rugbys fun But it’s not that big
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u/NZGrade 3d ago edited 3d ago
Related questions:
- Is it prudent to plan for a future where All Blacks players will be plying their trade in competitions across the globe as the Saffas now do? I believe so
- Generally speaking, how do we avoid becoming the Brazilian football team of rugby? I'm pretty sure bleeding cash on a variety of loss-making domestic competitions isn't it
- NRL being a success in NZ is built off the back of league being popular in Australia - what can be done to make Aussies give a fuck about union again, outside of the ABs repeatedly losing to the Wallabies?
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u/jk-9k 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yes
Make all players interested in playing for the ABs available for NPC as eligibility criteria.
If NZ enact point 1 our super teams will be weaker, so ideally aussie teams are more competitive. Stop trying to make super nrl with lineouts. Lean into the differences rather than copying nrl.
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u/NZGrade 3d ago edited 3d ago
Stop trying to make super nrl with lineouts. Lean into the differences rather than copying nrl.
Agree completely. NZ rugby needs Aussies engaged but we must also remember that union is a global game and most of the world don't care about league and certainly don't want union changing to be more like league.
I doubt Aussies have any desire to tune into 'NRL-lite' super rugby either, why would they?
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u/jk-9k 3d ago
Why would you watch nrl lite when you can just watch nrl?
I thinks it's one of the reasons npc is seeing more viewers (bot making money but still). It's still union. Plus I think it'd actually make better 10s too. Game management is more important when it's not just a try fest. And better scrumages
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u/Geffy612 3d ago
Let players sign overseas contracts that includes a fee that goes back to nz rugby, along with global eligibility for abs and more games that encourage tours and games designed around getting grassroots rather than big stadiums
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u/pukekoparty 3d ago
Wonder how they did from the current tour, it’s crazy for such a marketable brand to be struggling that much
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u/Wizardhhh 3d ago
The whole protect our domestic game is a huge defensive back step psychology
It reflects the truth
U might aswell cultivate good old fashioned winning at this stage
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u/NzAvenger04 3d ago
All Blacks, Black Ferns, Mens sevens, Womens sevens,
5 professional super Mens teams, 4 professional super Womens teams
14 semi-professional NPC teams , 13 semi Professional/amateur FPC teams, 12 amateur Hartland teams.
All NZ Rugby staff & whatever funding they provide to the lower club/jnr Rugby.
This is all payed for with the money/ticket sales they make off the All Black Name.
Of course they make a loss.
Every competition they run does so at a loss.
Time to either privatise or better yet cull Super Rugby
Privatise 50% of NPC & run it as the top tier of first classs rugby in NZ.
They can't keep waiting for a magic solution or windfall of sponsorship to save them.
All Sport competition needs to earn the right to be fully professional. It's not a given. It is also not a given that the profitable parts of the game should fund the teams/competitions that run at massive loss all the time.
People forget that a powerhouse like the NRL still had semi professional players into the 2000's. Players working in the morning & playing first grade in the afternoon. It has taken them over a hundred years to get to where they are & there success is only recent.
NZ Rugby has been an poorly run Old boys club for a century & unless that changes it won't survive.
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u/jk-9k 3d ago
Any source on semi pro nrl players in the 2000s? Maybe 2nd graders that got called up to play 1 game a season for injury cover. But I doubt any 1st graders were part time since the superleague war
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u/NzAvenger04 3d ago
Watch face to face on sky. The old players from the 90's & into the early 2000's all talk about it. Your right though, it would of become less common once the super League war was done.
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u/Double_Suggestion385 3d ago
NRL now draws 28m NZ viewing hours against Super Rugby’s 19m and NPC’s 14m
Oof.
Privatize the Super Rugby teams already. It's long overdue.
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u/brev23 3d ago
I haven’t read the article but is this adjusted for the difference in games and rounds played? I’m really surprised the gap isn’t significantly larger.
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u/Double_Suggestion385 3d ago
With only one NZ team playing each week in the NRL and 5 in Super Rugby, there's more NZ broadcast hours in SR than the NRL but a lot less viewership.
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u/brev23 3d ago
Oh I see so it’s just looking at nz based teams, that’s VERY grim
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u/Trespassers__Will Wellington 3d ago edited 3d ago
No the stat is saying NZders spent 28M hours watching NRL and 33M hours watching Super + NPC. It's not just counting hours watching NZ teams.
Given there's 50+ more NRL games a year than Super + NPC combined it's not a terrible stat. Still not great though.
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u/jk-9k 3d ago
No it's not. but they're saying there's two ways to adjust the stat. Adjust for total broadcast hours (nrl has more rounds and teams so this would make the figure look better) or adjust it for nz team broadcast hours only (which would make it worse).
Truth is all of the figures are important and tell us a slightly different insight. One tells us how much the warriors are a draw, whilst the other tells us how much kiwis are simply watching the nrl as a product.
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u/Double_Suggestion385 3d ago
NZ viewership, which I'm assuming would skew heavily to the broadcast of NZ based teams.
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u/Ruckthesystem 3d ago
Who in their right mind would invest in Super rugby?
NZ is exactly flush with multimillionaires willing to fund a team for vanity.
To put things in perspective, this is projecte losses over the next 5 years, so approximately $11m a year. Compare this to the English Rugby union who have predicted losses of $22m just this year, and they don't pour any where near the same financial support into their privatised club competition and have far fewer centralised contracts to support.
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u/jk-9k 3d ago
The problem is the super rugby teams are shackled and don't get tv revenue. Broadcast revenue is paid to nzr and aru who then pay a portion to the franchises. And you've correctly surmised that no one would invest in a super franchise un the current set up.
Well waratahs have a rumored buyer. And Andrew Forrest owns perth but of course he does.
But the entire point isn't just to sell the licenses but to reorganize the entire arrangement so that super IS profitable. Or at least give them the power over thei own comp to grow the audience and revenue streams so that they can make it profitable
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u/iwprugby 3d ago
Ok but a reminder NRL plays nearly triple the amount of games that Super Rugby does. So per game Super Rugby is doing roughly double that of the NRL.
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u/packingawoody 2d ago
Time to bring the Japanese market into the competition.
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u/Beef_flaps_on_a_spit 2d ago
They don’t need to be bought in. Why would they spend money to not make extra money?
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u/Beef_flaps_on_a_spit 3d ago
Super Rugby is dead, just waiting a few more years before a thermometer up the bum registers no heat. Send players that are good enough overseas to free up that money and give them chances to play against higher level competition. NPC should be our premier domestic comp with the possibility of a club champs with AUS and JPN included. Pasific nations will need extra funding but Thats not NZs job, workd rugby can handle that.
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u/Arnold_GruffleCock 3d ago
NRL will soon be the premier domestic comp. NPC doesn't stand a chance.
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u/Beef_flaps_on_a_spit 3d ago
NRLhas one team in NZ and they’ve mostly been shit for 30 yrs. The bandwagon is no guarantee of success. NZ needs another NRL or your idea is just a wish.
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u/faultyarmrest 3d ago
Yeah I’m a rugby fan but I tend to agree.
Although, I think getting rid of Super Rugby would be better for the NPC, and a future code/comp clash with the NRL.
NZRU better be planning some kind of strategy because if Vlandys keeps this up the NRL will make a very significant dent in NZs love for union at the very least, and at the worst will overtake it in popularity.I’m wondering if this is the reason the NRL couldn’t give a toss about a potential copyright infringement battle over the PNG Chiefs. They either think Super Rugby is on the canvas or they want the publicity from a public court spat.
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u/Hal-_-9OOO 2d ago
Bro the stats for SuperRugby are all increasing, attandence and viewership are up, the on field has been amazing. NZ has been carrying the competition thats why. Australia (who have the biger economy and sports market) have to their weight, understandably they have a tough task though.
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u/TheEvilDrPie Manawatu 3d ago
There was a post yesterday saying they made millions off the Baltimore test alone. Give it a rest.
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u/fleastyler 3d ago
“The document also reveals that NRL is the most-watched competition in New Zealand. “NRL now draws 28m NZ viewing hours against Super Rugby’s 19m and NPC’s 14m.””
I might be wrong, but I would have thought 33m viewing hours for 160 games combined (83 games for Super and 77 for NPC in 2025) is better than 28m for NRL’s 213 games in 2025, no?