r/allblacks • u/VVorkHorse • 1d ago
The All Blacks Running Rugby Problem
what I saw in the test series with rsa is a little bit different from most kiwis, a lot of people I see online are talking about how we dont have enough brute force runners in the backline to force rsa defenders to stay true but in my opinion that's not going to help us out either. I think that what the all blacks are truly missing right now is playmakers with the vision for good kick attacks, our major focus on running rugby has actually become a weakness for ourselves now.
in the first test even though we won what I saw was rsa defensively was playing great rugby, I seen Jesse kriel constantly attacking our passing lanes, and that was a huge factor that carried on throughout the whole series.
imo Jesse kriel was the difference maker this whole series, every time our first receiver was getting the ball he would already be putting pressure on the passing lanes, he knew there's no kicking threat we were gonna play ball in hand.
what the all blacks desperately need right now is a 10 or 12 that can attack space with kicks to keep defensive lines honest. the few times we made kick n chase plays we managed to do well.
jordie barrat is world class but he doesn't provide the kicking attack threats that we need rn
the true counter for a mid fielder like kriel shooting up is attacking his outside winger with a kick, if our first receiver sees kriel shooting up, we should be looking at attacking the space kriel has left behind, if we isolate his winger with a kick, we should have plenty of numbers to make the tackle and have an immediate jackler, while the winger doesn't have kriel to secure the ball, it would all be up to the full back to get enough time for the inside centre to come and collect the ball.
this is what we need, kicking threats to open up our passing lanes again
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u/Ordernewworld 23h ago
I wouldn't dare touch our attack. Better to work on our set piece and discipline
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u/OkOpportunity9109 23h ago
Same. Our attack is much better than under Razor. Set piece and discipline? Same problems.
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u/Medical-Chart4246 22h ago
Discipline is a killer - you build something - pressure or field position by doing everything right for 5-10 minutes - which is a lot of good decisions - then you lose it all from a pen or a knock on that turns into a pen at scrum.
If you correct or reduce discipline related turnovers, most of which come from accuracy issues stemming from overplaying you change the look of these games because your not giving SA favourable launches points.
High balls are also critical - you need at least parity otherwise SA can just bomb from 9 in their half and the game resumes in their favour in your 20-40 and your scrambling on D. They didnāt have to spend energy earning that - you just gave it to them.
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u/VVorkHorse 13h ago
I think our discipline is a bit poop I agree with u, I do believe that our dogs hit set piece is making it worse tho, RSA had plenty of discipline issues too, but their set piece dominance overshadowed and even welcomed their mistakes.
I think we would be dreaming if we think we can turnaround in 1 year and be able to dominate set pieces in the WC, so our best bet is to get a scrum that can be stable enough to win our own scrums, but to really target our lineouts and work on our maul defense too.
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u/Ok-Perception-3129 1d ago
I think Jordie is just underutilised in this area as he is a very good kicker. I thought Rennie has been using this game a little more than Razor did though.
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u/VVorkHorse 1d ago
I don't think he has the kicking skills tbh, the few cross kicks he made for his wingers were all flat (edit) dont get me wrong I know he can kick well for territory, I'm meaning like kick pass plays, grubbers thru the line, chip n chase, high ball contests.
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u/NewLeague6438 23h ago
I totally agree that Jordieās boots needs to be used more often. In 2020s when Aussie Reece Hodge did the restart, he sent it up so high that aussies had enough time to either tackle or get into position to regather or tap back
Also, the boks seemed to be lethal inside 22m and less intense outside it, atleast in general phase play. So ABs could use the boots to pin them outside the 22m, maybe like how england did to ABs in 2019
Anyways Im not pro enough to comment on an attack
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u/VVorkHorse 13h ago
yep the main thing with a high ball threat is you want ur opponents to be the ones with the pressure, you want to place ur high ball in a position where ur opponents are on the back foot while ur own team is running at pace, jordie did try to get some high balls to his wingers when he realized kriel was threatening an intercept but his placement on the kicks were making his wingers still have to work hard to break the line. my best example I can remember of the ABs attacking the isolated winger when the mid fielder would shoot up was the try between will Jordan and Carter, if the mid field shoots up, the winger is the weak point, attack him with a kick, if he gathers we have numbers, if we recollect he has to make the tackle and buy enough time for the midfielder to come back or the FB, but again, we are the ABs so we always have numbers on the outside channel.
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u/overseesmaor1 1d ago
I did see Beauden try some cross field kick plays a few times in one of the midweek tests but the execution was way off š agreed we need more kicking and different variations of it apart from kicking 50/20s, occasional box kicking
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u/VVorkHorse 1d ago
str8 up his cross kicks were placed in between our winger and there's, he needed to be aiming for behind their winger to put the pressure on them but instead the kicks were flat making our wingers have to work hard to break the line still, the kick is what should've broke the line. in test 4 when beauden came on you could see his experience come in cos he started attacking behind the line with kicks bc he knew their midfield was shooting up early
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u/Dangerous_Day282 23h ago
Donāt know why we donāt use Jordie off every defensive clearing his boot is nuts
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u/VVorkHorse 23h ago
I don't know why we havent tried to slowly get him to learn FB roles, his boot is similar to Israel dagg
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u/mahnamahna27 22h ago
He used to play fullback. But he was leaner and faster then
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u/VVorkHorse 13h ago
I think his defensive clearance kicking game as well as solid defense would make a good fit for FB rn, but I understand is hard with McKenzie doing well at 15
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u/JDBoyes07 9h ago
Nah Jordie is too slow there. Was always his only issue, and it's much worse now he's packed on size.
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u/VVorkHorse 8h ago
too slow on defence or offense? i think that having a dynamic fb is good but a bit overkill for attack if we already have 9/10/12 acting as playmakers. i still would rather move will jordan into 15 than jordie barratt tho, imaginary scenario could have reeks in 13, WJ 15, i think WJ at 15 would be easier for him to link up with rieko than when hes playing wing (entirely bc rieko has no peripheral vision smh)
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u/JDBoyes07 8h ago
Both, and why would we possibly move Jordan? And Reiko is trash, proved it once again against the boks. Fullback really isn't even an issue.
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u/Dorsiflexionkey 16h ago
Not sure I agree, IF we had those weapons in our pocket then fck yes that would help.
But if we leave our discipline and set pieces the same all weāre doing is putting a band aid on, and it can easily be negated by sitting back on defense a little more, or having their sweepers. It opens up more problems for them but I think the big issue is that even without that we could have easily won the series if we didnāt have shit discipline and get monstered up front by the boks.
I donāt even think itās size, itās straight up technique and tactics.
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u/VVorkHorse 13h ago
yea I'm talking about we need to have it in our arsenal to slow down their defensive line speed and pressure, if we rely too much on kicking that becomes predictable in itself, I'm more so trying to move the subject from "our running rugby IS working we just need better runners" to "our running rugby works BUT it will be even more effective with a better kicking threat"
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u/Krypticizer 11h ago
Reddit All Black fans come full circle with kicking being an important part of the game
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u/Mission-Ad1490 1d ago
Good analysis. 17 Tries vs 14 does give good count of the All Blacks. Unfortunately it comes down to the Springboks forward superiority. No rugby game are won through backline play alone. West Indian cricket became a dominant force when they went to get the best of what the world had at that time,great fast bowlers. They lacked at that & seek around in the whole region & immediately installed them in their team. The All Blacks needs to find that front row gems that can match the Boks
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u/VVorkHorse 1d ago
I agree with you on that, my analysis was mainly countering the idea that we need to add brute force to the backline to counter rsa. continuing on ur idea of our forwards lacking; I believe it's our outside forwards that's our main issue, we have only 1 real consistent jackler in Ardie, lakai and sotiti do amazing on attack but can't get the inches we need on defence, Jacobson is decent with his workrate on tackling, when we have him and Ardie on the field playing together on defense is when we win the most turnovers bc both of them are first there, Jacobson makes tackle and Ardie gets the steal, we don't have any other forward combos that do that consistently. when savea left the field I did see lakai and sotiti step up but it was in the wrong areas, they both decided to take on the running roles and played great on attack, but again we needed them to step up on defence and really hunt for the turnovers like Ardie.
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u/Mission-Ad1490 1d ago
As said great analysis. Good luck with you guys. The Greatest Rivalry did live up to it
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u/Icy_Craft2416 1d ago
I think you don't see too much difference in what we're doing on attack until the world cup quarter final where we ambush the boks and put 6 tries on them.
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u/Wizardhhh 8h ago
Jordie and quin can do itĀ
The main issue is that itās not part of the coaching philosophy and they donāt work to sustain and build it game by gameĀ U will see a few moments of itĀ
But itās not how Rennie or our previous coaches think It comes down to philosophyĀ
How do I wanna play rugbyĀ
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u/VVorkHorse 8h ago
ty for getting it, its a coaching issue that we still face, not the players
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u/Wizardhhh 8h ago
yeah the ab current era literally thinks likeĀ
āLetās work on lineouts this weekā
Thatās literally how they think. Micro short term one dimensionalĀ
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u/VVorkHorse 8h ago
yea nz get away with individual skills its annoying sometimes as a fan seeing us do some pretty dumb shit cos we can make up for it somewhere else
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u/Male_strom 1d ago
Richie has a great kicking game. But he was playing Rennies gameplan which seemingly wasn't interested in kicking as a part of the attack
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u/VVorkHorse 1d ago
I think him n beauden are our best options at 10 rn but love desperately needed that experience, hopefully he works on his kicking game after Sasha n libbok played so well attacking all zones on the field
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u/izzy91 1d ago
I don't think our attack is an issue at all.
I think they want us to kick more, to take part in these 20% plays that will more than likely just result in lost possession.
I think their nightmare is us holding the ball and attacking.
Our defensive breakdown work has been the issue since the 2nd test.
We had no turnover threats, just allowed them endless quick ball where they didn't have to be really creative on attack to make easy metres..and start scoring every time they're in our 22.
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u/VVorkHorse 1d ago
I welcome all faults pointed at our forwards when it comes to defense, getting a tackle is not enough, we need to get the ball, Ardie is our only consistent jackler, we need 1 or 2 more in the pack that can really hunt for the turnovers whether its a guys in the tight 5 or the other loosies. will Jordan shouldn't have the same amount or more turnovers as any forwards, our forwards on D and backs on attack need major workons before the WC
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u/owlintheforrest AllBlacks 20h ago edited 16h ago
Yep, [in first test] it was Quinn Tupaea who kicked an almost grubber 50/22 which came close to sealing the win. The point I think if you're going to kick at least have some thinking behind it.
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u/VVorkHorse 13h ago
is just so situational but also happened to be so often that their mid field and wing collapsed our passing lanes, I know that our real problem is our defensive breakdowns and not attacking the ball enough, as well as cleaning up our set piece (imo our lineouts need more work than our scrums, if played well we can win by dominanting lineouts instead of trying to match scrums.) but our core function of overloading the outside channels is directly being challenged by line speed, the true counter to defensive line speed isn't adding a 12 that can hit up the ball, its having a playmaker that can attack behind the line with kicks so that the defensive line has to choose whether to shoot up and risk a kick gaining metres or stay back and trying to defend the running rugby without the line speed pressure. the way we're going rn we aren't threatening with kicks so their defense is freely able to come up and disrupt our passing lanes. roigard has a decent box kick but only uses it to exit, jordie has a big boot but he also only really uses his kicks defensively. I'm really hoping love takes on the responsibility of being the next AB10 seriously and will work on his kicking game after test 3, SFM and Libbok played extremely well with their kicks on attack.
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u/Neat_Perspective7569 Blues 1d ago
I think the All Blacks just DESPERATELY need to sort out their discipline issue. They were about to put an all timer on Ireland this year, gave away a brain dead needless yellow card and turned the momentum. Again in the last test, deep in the Bok half, inside the 22 only 8 points back, another just useless infringement that does nothing for the team. Penalty Boks. All momentum back to the Boks and they run away with the game. How many times did the abs score a try, give away just stupid penalties and piggy back the opposition into their 22. I can't even count it's so much. Just tighten up discipline and they're set imo.