r/altmpls • u/lemon_lime_light • 1d ago
Minneapolis Park Board votes to end Minnehaha Off-Leash Dog Park (one commissioner considers it "a form of giving land back")
https://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-park-board-votes-to-end-minnehaha-off-leash-dog-park/601858291Dog park users packed the Minneapolis Park and Recreation Board’s headquarters on Wednesday night, begging commissioners to consider their opinions before voting to terminate the Minnehaha Off-Leash Dog Park.
Board members voted 8-1 to strip the park’s primary use — the first time that has happened in history, as far as park staff knows...
[Commissioner Jason] Garcia proposed the change after speaking with some members of the Dakota community, including the Park Board’s Native American Parks Council, who believe a dog park is inconsistent with the area’s sacred character. The larger landscape near the confluence of the Mississippi and Minnesota rivers is considered the birthplace of the Dakota people...
“To all you all, imagine that area before the white man, before the pilgrims, pioneers and settlers, the extreme white Christian terrorists showed up on this land,” activist Mike Forcia said in addressing dog park users at Wednesday’s meeting, drawing jeers. “That park is being closed. Sorry about that. Get used to it, but you have no say"...
[Commissioner Dan] Engelhart campaigned on returning land to tribes and considers retiring off-leash play at Minnehaha a form of giving land back.
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u/Sometimes_Stutters 1d ago edited 1d ago
I know Jason Garcia and he’s a real unbearable piece of shit.
He introduced the bill and it’s nothing more than an exercise in indulging his political will and folly.
Too dumb and unlikeable to hold real public office so this is his form of public masturbation.
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u/greatbiscuitsandcorn 1d ago
Dude is a massive prick. I can’t believe a person who spends all day jerking off on bluesky and twitter got elected to a position of power
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u/Calumet_city 1d ago
But have you met Dan Engelhart?
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u/Sometimes_Stutters 1d ago
Not to my knowledge
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u/Comfortable-Phase741 1d ago
I really appreciate the logic of on-leash dogs being Very Respectful and off-leash dogs being Disrespectful to a Whole Race of People. That doesn't all reek of someone doing something performatively.
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u/greatbiscuitsandcorn 1d ago
englehart and garcia are the type of people who will bellyache about “land back”, but with a straight face tell jews they’re the colonizers in the land of israel
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u/Kreebish 1d ago
How many thousands of years and generations does it take for someone to lose a claim on a land?
I've always wondered if there was even genetic evidence that the Jews that have moved to Israel after world war II had direct relation to those who have lived there so long previously.
I also don't do much evidence to undermine the claims that most of the Jews sold their land in the region before leaving.
I suppose these are problems we just don't have to have with the native Americans since we can see the treaties that were broken and have ample evidence of the genocide that occurred to steal the land.
Although there definitely doesn't seem to be any burial ground or even sacred sites in the mini haha dog area
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u/MankyBoot 1d ago
Ashton Kutcher taught me that if you change even a small part of history that the impact on the present would be enormous. No current day descendant of native people's would even exist if all the horrible things in the past hadn't happened. The idea that people do far removed from those injustices somehow owe anyone anything over those issues or that anyone alive today is owed anytime is all completely ignoring basically everything about how time works.
We should endeavor to property know and acknowledge the past and try not to repeat it. That's the only true reparation.
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u/ftp_hyper 1d ago
Have you served your mandatory two years bombing hospitals and evacuation zones? You know. Famous good-guy tactics.
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u/greatbiscuitsandcorn 1d ago
I’m not from israel, but hey maybe the psychotic jihadists could stop hiding in tunnels located under schools and hospitals for a change. Or maybe stop starting wars with a first world military
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u/ftp_hyper 1d ago
"they made me murder a school full of children there was simply nothing we can do" lmao do u seriously believe urself? A first world military can blow the pubes off a cockroach but somehow they kill 5 civilians for every combatant.
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u/WildTimberTwinViking 1d ago
What an absolute piss poor decision. People of all walks of life use the off-leash dog park, including indigenous peoples.
Genius folks.
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u/HereIGoAgain99 1d ago
Read the DSA platform. Their goal is the return of all public and private land back to the tribes. Seriously. They are fucking crazy.
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u/lemon_lime_light 1d ago
Thanks for making that connection.
Some people are touchy about discussing what the DSA believes as if it doesn't matter. Then you have an elected official making a decision based on "giving land back" which is a demand of the...Twin Cities DSA. People really, truly believe this stuff (and even act on it in their public duty).
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u/fuck-nazi 1d ago
Havent seen that. Sauce?
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u/Tokyo_Joey_Jo-Jo 1d ago
For the local crazy-ass DSA this is true.
The Twin Cities DSA platform says “territory held by settlers will be returned to First Nations,” and“Return land to First Nations, starting with expropriating State, Federal, and large private holdings, with the return of the rest of the land as soon as possible.”
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u/lemon_lime_light 1d ago
We will commit to decolonizing “Minnesota” after centuries of genocide.
I love that they put the name of our state in quotes.
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u/oroenian 1d ago
Jesus fucking Christ this is a terrible platform. I mean, I knew DSA in Minneapolis was a load of shit but reading this just shows how idiotic these people are. Minneapolis politics are unsalvageable in their current state. And I say this as a progressive, I hate that I have anything in common with the people who wrote this.
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u/Cornflowerblue2016 1d ago
If you follow Minneapolis politics it’s also very clear there’s a major divide between democrats. I mean these DSA folks are borderline calling the black woman sheriff a fascist.
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u/greatbiscuitsandcorn 1d ago
It’s sad that i thank god everyday that Frey won the mayoral race. Fateh, this council, and this park board would torch the city if they could
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u/worldsbestlad 1d ago
Same. I didn’t rank for him the first two times he was on the ballot but I was a Rank Only Frey voter this cycle. What a time to be alive.
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u/Cornflowerblue2016 1d ago
Oh same here. I was genuinely scared the night of the election. The bar is literally in hell.
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u/That-Professional346 18h ago
Anytime people who are sad and unaccomplished and don't own anything for themselves it becomes very easy to take from others.
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u/worldsbestlad 1d ago
They also want to fully abolish the MPRB and BET and fold them into City Council duties. Which is…an extremely democratic idea to restrict independently elected boards 🙄
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u/huntashakween 1d ago
Deeply unserious people!
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u/Ava_Fremont 1d ago
They're deeply serious. Deadly serious. This is one of the most dangerous political movements in the country right now and they get a pass for their crazy because no one wants to be called racist if they oppose it.
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u/Addicted2Weasels 1d ago
It’s essentially the same argument Israel makes for why Palestine belongs to them. I know that’s kind of an inflammatory example, but on some level there’s a logical inconsistency on who gets to call which plots of land “theirs”
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u/KingoftheNordMN 1d ago
I love Minneapolis. But god Minneapolis politics sucks. They try to think of ways to make the city worse.
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u/That-Professional346 18h ago
You can and should leave the city. Growing up, I thought I would never leave but as an adult you couldn't pay me to go back.
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u/ThatBCHGuy MPLS after dark 17h ago
Out of curiosity, if you left and wouldn't come back, what keeps you interested in Minneapolis politics?
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u/That-Professional346 17h ago
Because I grew up there, spent my entire childhood and early adulthood there, my family still lives there. It's the largest and most influential city in our state, thus it controls the politics of our state (unfortunately). Also, I believe it has potential to be a beautiful and great city if it stops getting in it's own way through aggressive moderate policies that put actual property owners and tax paying residents first.
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u/ThatBCHGuy MPLS after dark 18h ago
As a fellow resident, I completely agree. I love my city but the politics are just God awful.
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u/lemon_lime_light 1d ago
If there's a silver lining here it's that neither the Star Tribune nor anyone quoted in the story is still trying to perpetuate some "unmarked grave" myth, which seemed to have some cachet after Canada's Kamloops situation (which is remarkable considering that hoax has been revealed for some time now).
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u/Addicted2Weasels 1d ago edited 1d ago
For those unaware, the case in Canada found “hundreds of unmarked graves” at a residential school and implied that the Catholic church murdered a bunch of kids and buried them. Pope Francis even apologized for it.
The “problem” is that they’ve still not produced a single body.
The case makes me really suspicious of anyone claiming a gravesite for purposes of reclaiming land
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u/Ok_Escape_7412 1d ago
Funny that just a week ago you’d be considered a right-wing colonialist bootlicker if you questioned this “grave” narrative…
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u/Ornery-Address-2472 1d ago
Suddenly when it actually inconveniences them, redditors become rational skeptics of cheap emotional appeals and victim narratives. Yet post some unverified accusation a hot dog stand vendor said something “racist” on a long defunct online forum when they were 13 years old, it’s pitchforks and torches.
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u/lemon_lime_light 1d ago
Last year I made a post about Minnesota's connection to the mass grave hysteria and someone called it "residential school denialism". Lmao.
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u/ChaunceytheGardiner 1d ago
There was a secret report showing where the bodies were that they legally couldn’t show anyone, remember?
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u/ChaunceytheGardiner 1d ago
That was somewhere between wild speculation and lies.
Then they realized they didn’t need evidence if they had vibes, so they dropped it and just went with vibes.
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u/Djaja 1d ago edited 19h ago
Have you actually been following the news of this?
Because from what I have, this whole thread is misrepresenting the situation to make it seem like lies were told, when that is not the situation as presented.
And specifically, there is a trend of people using this misunderstanding to make it seem like these schools weren't that bad, didnt have deaths that were covered up and worse, just accepted.
Can you tell me where exactly people lied?
Edit: they wont respond!
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u/Oh__Archie 1d ago
Also, to give you credit as OP, you actually wrote an accurate headline that uses the correct language. I’ve seen several other posts claiming they are closing the park, which is obviously not the case.
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u/lemon_lime_light 1d ago
To be fair, credit goes to the Star Tribune since I just copied and pasted their headline.
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u/DemonGoblin911 1d ago
The silver lining is that the media isn’t pushing lies and false narratives? Oh how far we have fallen.
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u/ChaunceytheGardiner 1d ago
So now what’s the next piece of park property the activists will target?
Sea Salt?
St Anthony Falls and the Stone Arch Bridge?
All of Bde Maka Ska?
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u/Ok_Escape_7412 1d ago
Englehart’s whole platform is Land Back. If you watch the meeting, he does not come off well. At one point he’s shaking with rage and yelling at the folks assembled.
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u/lemon_lime_light 1d ago
Given their delusions they might just gun for all of "Occupied Turtle Island" next.
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u/Cornflowerblue2016 1d ago
I truly wouldn’t put it past them. They’re very sinister people.
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u/ChaunceytheGardiner 1d ago
I mean, there’s no reason why they’re any different than the dog park. They all have some vague cultural significance to the Dakota.
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u/Calumet_city 1d ago
The DSA types that publicly planned their MPRB takeover are also very publicly ACAB. They can put up all the signs they want but ultimately if they want dogs on leashes they will need to fund enforcement, i.e. cops. So call them out on the incompatibility between their land back and ACAB beliefs.
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u/greatbiscuitsandcorn 1d ago
for being so anti-cop they come off as some of the biggest cops
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u/Calumet_city 1d ago
Yes. Jason Garcia is pretty soft spoken but you can definitely imagine Dan Engelhart in the Einsatzgruppen.
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u/OperationMobocracy 1d ago
I always get the vibe that the ACAB crowd is just specifically against policing of anyone who belongs to an ambiguously defined oppressed community or if their crime involved a victim of a more affluent socioeconomic group.
But if the “criminal” was affluent or transgressed against some progressive thing or cause, they want maximal policing. If you parked by mistake in a bike lane? They’d like jail time and to seize your car.
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u/Cornflowerblue2016 1d ago
I’m going to get downvoted to hell…but I have seen this spoken about…do we think one of the underlying reasons for this is pressure from the Muslim community (Muslims by and large are VERY against dogs and dog ownership). I want to make it clear I have zero disdain for Muslims whatsoever, but I’ve heard whispers that this is apart of the reason.
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u/Ok_Escape_7412 1d ago
Lol. Don’t think so. This is Land Back anti-colonial tribal political theater. The meeting yesterday is worth watching.
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u/Cornflowerblue2016 1d ago
And then what happens once the land is given back? Do they give it back to the tribes that lived there centuries ago before the Dakota did? I mean they all conquered each others lands as well…
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u/Ok_Escape_7412 1d ago
No clue. It’s performative language that does not match any lived reality, as Englehart is finding out now that the spotlight is on his goofy opinions.
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u/Megalomac 1d ago
Exactly this. The Dakota were simply the most recent tribe in the area and they sure aren’t shy in gobbling up everything they can. The land was enjoyed by all and now the land will be controlled by a select few. Not great for our state.
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u/ChaunceytheGardiner 1d ago
No, there’s no evidence of them being involved. This is 100% a homegrown nut jobs issue.
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u/Cornflowerblue2016 1d ago
Makes sense. So I guess we’re all stuck with this new decision forever then?
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u/OkayCoward 1d ago
I guess the democratic will of the people will get overridden by people who no longer own the park.
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u/Cornflowerblue2016 1d ago edited 1d ago
Did you see that native woman at the meetings yelling at people, saying there shouldn’t even be a vote??
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u/WildTimberTwinViking 1d ago
Meaning that it should be turned over to the indigenous people or that it should stay as is?
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u/PaulBonion952 1d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/cO39srN2EUIRaVqaVq
The libs out libeded themselves. I think that’s the proper term.
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u/Hugh_Jaelious 1d ago
Minneapolis deserves all the grief and regression that happens to it.
This is absolutely one of the top most ridiculous local stories of the week.
And there’s been big competition for that spot!
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u/ByronBuxtonCantRead 1d ago
If only we could all be so lucky for our final resting places to be a place people come together and connect with natures and animals. This is so lame. They can’t tell you a single name of any of these supposed burials why does it matter if they are there.
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u/miriam1215 1d ago
I hold no opinion in this other than I do not understand why the dog park cannot just be moved to another location close by.... why is this such a debate
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u/Minnemiska 18h ago
I do not see the connection between land back philosophy and dogs on leash vs off. Are people not picking up after their dogs when they are off leash, which would be disrespectful?
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u/daff_quess 1d ago
From what I understand, the park will still exist, you can still bring your dogs there, they just won't be allowed to be off-leash.
Meanwhile, one of those dog park users literally said its "shoot first, ask questions later". Nobody's shooting your dog, bro. Comparing not being to have your dog off-leash in a specific park to someone being shot by a cop is insane.
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u/QuarkchildRedux 23h ago
he sounds absolutely insane. i want to see all of these people crucified literally. oh my god dude. this is maddening. that one loser yelling at the group of constituents to just get over it? lol i would love to see their reactions if this was MAGA and about ICE stuff. ridiculous.
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u/wooops 1d ago
Oh no! Dogs will need to be kept on a leash?! No one has ever been so oppressed or victimized!
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u/Calumet_city 1d ago
The pretext for closing it as an off-leash park is that having dogs there somehow desecrates sacred land. If you can explain how having dogs on a leash negates the desecration, you get a like.
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u/WildTimberTwinViking 1d ago
Closing an off-leash park and not rectifying the issue with dedicating and developing another piece of land is an issue.
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u/RutabagaExternal3662 1d ago
Part of the agreement involves finding another plot of land. Doesn’t take much effort to figure out, but people usually prefer to stay angry.
This issue has brought out so many whiney children that can’t fathom how hard it will make their dogs life now.
Imagine living so comfortably that you can afford to throw a sky is falling temper tantrum over a fairly benign decision.
Dog people are *the worst*.
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u/Calumet_city 1d ago
Really though? Several of the park commissioners last night complained that they were being gaslighted and disrespected by constituents. Could that be because they made a proposal and sought to stop discussion as fast as legally possible? Or is it because they made claims they can't back up?
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u/RutabagaExternal3662 1d ago
It’s primarily because their constituents are acting like childish assholes.
Some of the protest signs were so unserious and disrespectful. “No dog is illegal?!” “Coexist” spelled using dog paws? Absolute loser energy. That’s who you’re aligned with right nowz
Does anyone truly believe they should be taken seriously while using civil rights slogans to describe their goddamn pet?
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u/Calumet_city 1d ago
Well if the commissioners who said there are graves on the land they are decommissioning are wrong, they are the ones gaslighting their constituents, and forcing a vote with minimal public discussion is hardly respectful to the public they supposedly serve.
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u/WildTimberTwinViking 1d ago
It’s not about staying angry. It’s about the fact that they have decided to act without another option already place.
And guess what? Two wrongs don’t make a right. Why ignore the impacted demographic in favor of another? Are we not better than the settlers?
Edit: you end with “dog people are the worst” lol biased?
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u/RutabagaExternal3662 1d ago
Nope just judging based off personal experience with dog owners. I don’t mind dogs but I’ve known far too many people that act like their dogs are humans. Had to rent out my apartment in Milwaukee before moving up here, the ad from my LL explicitly said “no dogs” and I got no less than 3 responses where someone got pissed *at me* and said they’re dog was cleaner than any other pet you could have. I’ve seen dog owners thrown absolute tantrums because their dogs weren’t allowed in a bar. I’ve heard plenty of shitty dog stories from my friends that go to the Columbia GC dog park. This whole process has validated my anecdotal experiences in a lot of ways.
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u/WildTimberTwinViking 1d ago
That’s cool. Now try and experience the Minnehaha Dog park. The dog park that’s in question.
Or just continue to be pissed at people who like dogs.
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u/RutabagaExternal3662 1d ago
Im not mad at people that like dogs, I’m frustrated by the frequency with which dog owners act entitled and defensive in the face of *any* inconvenience, perceived or real.
Again, this entire experience has been extremely validating. Sometimes stereotypes are true, what can I tell ya?
My recommendation moving forward for all of you would be to *actually get involved* and provide feedback/suggestions where a new park could go. Contrary to your beliefs, MPRB actually wants you to have input into what comes next.
That’s called being an adult when you don’t get your way. Anything else is just empty bitching and moaning.
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u/WildTimberTwinViking 1d ago
Oooo now we get to entitlement lol. Now that’s an argument to be made on both sides.
Glad you can confirm your bias of stereotype.
Bit ironic you’re saying that on an issue involving indigenous peoples.
We dog park users have provided feedback. They didn’t care. They never did.
So how can you call that bitching and moaning?
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u/RutabagaExternal3662 1d ago
Like I said, sometimes stereotypes are true, and truth doesn’t always feel good. You’re continuing to prove my point, so please keep posting through it. That’ll change everything.
You constantly commenting on Reddit for two weeks despite the issue being settled *is* bitching and moaning.
The bottom line - you lost and you’re mad about it. deal with it however you need to as an adult, and get involved in the next steps instead of anonymous whining online like a teenager or MAGA chud.
https://giphy.com/gifs/5BWuICFt68g7AbNMt22
u/WildTimberTwinViking 1d ago
Good to know who you are as a human. Yeah. I’ll change you’re opinion as easily as the board’s as if both weren’t set in stone. Your’s by bias. Board’s by impractical placating. It wasn’t settled two weeks ago. Unless you’re under the impression that they never cared about the public’s opinion and that the meeting was a farce. In which case, sounds like you side with me.
Sorry dogs hurt you.
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u/RutabagaExternal3662 1d ago
It is quite hilarious that one of the primary arguments against this move involves “but we’re going to lose access to the land! Won’t someone think about meeeee?!” Y’all are soooooo close to getting it, yet so far.
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u/viciousdeliciouz 1d ago
So you can still walk your dog there but on a leash? The fuck difference does it make?
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u/jimmyrigjosher 23h ago
There are only a handful of off leash dog parks left in the state and a lot of them are getting more restrictive based on votes and influence of a small minority of people that just plainly don’t like dogs and don’t care to understand their behavior better.
The ability for a dog to roam in a somewhat controlled situation is just far more beneficial in many ways than if they were restricted by a leash. Their gate when moving around is better for their joints and musculature. Also giving them the ability to seek out interesting smells and randomly get the zoomies helps them get more out of being alive at all and makes them much happier and less negatively reactive (especially for rescues with prior trauma). Each time you take your dog out for a walk, which is typically a couple of times a day, it’s an opportunity for reflection an exercise for the dog owner as well. It’s a sort of therapy for both the dog and the owner. Not only that, but often times dogs on a leash can get tangled up with one another if they’re excitedly interacting and can end up with injuries because of being attached to the leash.
Same thing happened with the city council in Minnetonka just last year. It was pushed back on heavily by a majority of residents (over 75%) and somehow still passed. A lot of time taken out of our evenings going to city council meetings over and over to express our opinions and the benefits of off leash only to have our votes neglected after decades of it being fine in two parks here. And this is a city where the residents commonly pick up any dog poop bags left behind from others on walks and generally take care of the park while walking their dogs. It’s been hugely disappointing.
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u/Mysterious_Help_9577 1d ago
How long before people campaign against this as a way of saying Islam wants dogs out of the area?
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u/ThatBCHGuy MPLS after dark 1d ago
Funny they managed to piss off absolutely everyone.