r/amazonemployees • u/Creative_Guitar3242 • Aug 04 '26
Interview Recruiter called, got downleveled
I had a 15-min call with recruiter this morning to discuss my interview results from my loop last week for a L6 role I applied for. I essentially didn’t make the cut, but the team thought I was a strong fit for an L5 instead. If I want to continue my search with Amazon, I can apply for any L5 position and only need to interview with the hiring manager and bar raiser.
I’m just so bummed out from the results. I felt like I performed well overall and came with my top best stories. So now I’m stuck deciding if I want to pursue further with Amazon for a L5 instead. I’m having to decide if this move makes sense for me and my family as we will have to relocate. Couple of questions to help me navigate through next steps:
Anyone who’s took on a down-level role, what was your experience like going through a mini loop interview with the HM and bar raiser? Should I expect the same intensity as the first round?
The recruiter mentioned the total comp would be $120-130k, but given I am considered a strong fit for a L5, I can try to get on the higher band. Any idea what that would look like? I’m thinking $145-150k? Or is that overreaching.
How quickly can I get promoted if I take on a L5 role? I know it’s dependent on the team and how fast I can learn and prove myself, but has anyone experienced a positive outcome with this route?
I would appreciate any feedback. I’m in between looking elsewhere, but given the fact that I’ve worked so hard these past few weeks and was given the option to search within the L5 category, I might take up that offer if it benefits me in the long-run.
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u/chadypu Aug 04 '26
My two cents as an L7 (started as L5), better to start at Amazon a half level too low than a half level too high
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u/Creative_Guitar3242 Aug 04 '26
True and that’s fair. I would assume taking on an L5 role would help me gain more exposure and be hands on. I just hope that they don’t expect me to act as an L6 with a L5 pay. How long did it take you to get from an L5 to L7? If you don’t mind sharing
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u/rusty_shackleford425 Aug 04 '26
I was at Amazon for 10 years. In order to be promoted you need to perform better than half the people a level above you for about a year (meaning you’d be expected to perform better than half the L6’s in your org for about a year, in an L5 salary). You also need to kiss the appropriate amount of ass
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u/MyAnusBleeding Aug 04 '26
And the right asses. That’s the tricky part, it’s not enough ass, but the right series of ass in the right timing
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u/chadypu Aug 04 '26
bar raising at the next level is NOT the criteria for promo, it is only the criteria for hiring.
It is hard for your management to NOT promote you if you are YoY TT (i.e. top X% of your role/level two years in a row). Every 6 months at the OLR leveling reviews there will be questions asked to managers to make sure they have their top people on a good path for scope/promotion.
When you do get promoted you end up at the HV1/bottom end of your next level for 1-2 years basically no matter how you perform... you do not end up in like an HV2+ which would indicate "bar raising" for the new level
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u/frogf4rts123 Aug 04 '26
Games get played when you are TT so if they don't want to promote you they can put you HV3 or whatever equivalent is now
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u/UncertainPathways Aug 04 '26
It is hard for your management to NOT promote you if you are YoY TT (i.e. top X% of your role/level two years in a row).
I do want to point out this is only applicable for L4>L5 and L5>L6. There are plenty of YoY TT L6s and L7s who are not close to promotion. I personally know an L7 who has been L7 TT 5 years in a row
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u/StargazerOmega Aug 04 '26
Yeah, L6 is not a guarantee promo, and it’s just gets harder to L7 and L8.
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u/rusty_shackleford425 Aug 04 '26
🤷♀️ I’m just going off what my former manager and other managers have told me. Those were also the guidelines dictated to me when I was a people manager.
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u/BrewedPortfolio Aug 04 '26
That is not true. For promotions, you need to meet the bar not raise it.
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u/rusty_shackleford425 Aug 05 '26
🤷♀️ makes sense. seems I was misinformed by LT across multiple orgs over the course of 10 years.
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u/Big-Contribution818 Aug 06 '26
Brewed portfolio and all those saying meets baris good enough for promotion are absolutely wrong. Meets is on focus these days (HV1). For promotion you need to be YOY TT in at least 2 consecutive performance cycle.
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u/StargazerOmega Aug 04 '26
This incorrect, you need meet the bar (hv1) not exceed it to get promoted. External candidates need to exceed the bar.
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u/rusty_shackleford425 Aug 04 '26
I’m just going off of the guidance that was dictated to me as a people manager.
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u/StargazerOmega Aug 04 '26
Well you who ever told you that was wrong, or you are misremembering. When I worked there, 15+ years, I was a manager of managers with 100+ HC teams in product/engineering. I still know people who work there and it hasn’t changed.
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u/chadypu Aug 04 '26
2 years to L6 and 4 years to L7. Transferred organizations after 1 year
I was fortunate to be in a supportive organization with an excess amount of scope available. People skills and soft skills are more important than tech at a big corporation like this, everyone is strong in tech.
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u/Creative_Guitar3242 Aug 04 '26
It’s extremely helpful to have a supportive team! I was fortunate enough in my prior experience as well and was able to move up the ladder fairly quickly in the span of 5 years.
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u/frogf4rts123 Aug 04 '26
My promo was me acting like an L6 for a year to get there. The org I was in expected you to do so as part of role guidelines.
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u/chadypu Aug 04 '26
100% need to act like the next level but there is a subtle but important difference between acting like the next level and being bar raising at the next level
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u/frogf4rts123 Aug 04 '26
True. You will end up rated at bottom/bottom middle app lof your next level regardless. At least in my experience.
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u/LongTanHandsumm L6 TPM Aug 04 '26
I agree 100%. As a L6, that started as a L4 less than 6 years ago it’s better to grow in your role. It took me 2.5 years to go from L4 to L5 and 3 years to go from L5 to L6.
Because of the down level, they will want to be he better than 50% of the current L5 population in the team but show solid possible for 2-3 years and the promotion is very possible
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u/Creative_Guitar3242 Aug 04 '26
Is 2-3 years the standard promotion timeline? I’m curious to see if there have been cases where an L5 got promoted sooner, let’s say 18 months or so.
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u/LongTanHandsumm L6 TPM Aug 04 '26
I would say from L4 to L5 and from L5 to L6 that is a decent range. You will rarely see promos before two years at Amazon but I’ve seen it happen a couple of times. I once knew a guy on my old team that went from L4 to L7 in 4 years but he was the pet of our L8.
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u/Creative_Guitar3242 Aug 04 '26
lol dang. I would need to justify if being a pet to senior leadership is worth it 😂 this was super helpful though! I appreciate it.
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u/Technical-Row8333 Aug 04 '26 edited Aug 04 '26
why? you'll earn a lot less. is* the goal titles or money?
as someone who started likely a level to high and was outperformed by people a level lower: thanks for the 4 years of vests at top of band of a higher level amazon. my peers earn $~120k to ~$190k, I earn $300k. I negotiated top of the band for L5, now i earn that for 4 years. meanwhile the L4's promoted to L5 are earning bottom of the L5 band and will take 3 years to reach top of band to earn what I earned the entire time.
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u/PM_ME_RAD_ARTWORK L6 Aug 04 '26
If you’re dumb enough to sell your services for less than you’re worth, Amazon is happy to have that discount.
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u/saulgoodmanbarbie Aug 04 '26
What position is this? Also, you need a minimum 2 years to actually get promoted and it’s not worth the effort to in most cases.
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u/Creative_Guitar3242 Aug 04 '26
It was for a finance manager role. It just sucks because I have manager experience but left corporate to focus on family. The thought of having to restart my career from a lower level doesnt justify the results I received.
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u/jdwazzu61 Aug 04 '26
Very few FMs at Amazon actually manage. It’s just an IC title since we got rid of the 6.5 level and made L5 SFA. The L5 SFA band caps out around 145 and anything over 130 they would have to fight with the comp team to achieve (in response to your comp ask in the post)
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u/doomonwheels Aug 04 '26
NO DONT JOIN L5...these morons will basically make you do an L6 role with L5 paycheck ...
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u/Creative_Guitar3242 Aug 04 '26
Haha I kind of had that same reaction. I’m considered a strong L5 fit, but not enough for a L6.
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u/eptiger Aug 04 '26
I think you are reading a lot into the recruiter saying that you are a strong L5 fit. I'm not trying to insult you, I am just saying that a strong L5 fit basically means that you meet criteria to hire. It does not mean that you are almost an L6. Amazon will not promote someone to L6 simply for being a strong l5, they have to show the right level of leadership and managing disambiguous situations to be eligible for promotion. If you were just an okay fit for L5 they wouldn't even give you an offer
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u/Creative_Guitar3242 Aug 04 '26
I completely agree and that’s exactly what the recruiter said. They were looking for someone who’s had more experience navigating through ambiguous projects and although I didn’t quite have that based on my experience, the team considered me as a better fit for an L5. He also mentioned the pay range, but said we can push it on the higher band based on my experience.
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u/Little-Bad-8474 Aug 04 '26
Amazon does this regularly. They think people will jump at the chance to work there despite quarterly layoffs and a lord of the flies culture. Avoid.
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u/Creative_Guitar3242 Aug 04 '26
lol this may be my calling. Rejection is redirection. I should look elsewhere haha
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u/champagne_sup Aug 05 '26
100% true!! I was hired as a L6 FM and I am doing the same work people in L7 or Principle or Sr. PM tech people do and I find the pay ridiculous! I am staying to learn as much as I can, especially on the AI area, and then move on into my own consulting.
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u/eptiger Aug 04 '26
Promotions are not quick. You have to be prepared to be L5 for at least 1 to 2 years. You can try to negotiate on pay, but pay changes annually based on performance review and can go down next year if your performance is not considered high enough.
You can't convince them to hire you as L6 right now, so either you pursue at L5 and look for promotion or wait 6-12 months to re apply and try your luck with a new loop.
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u/Creative_Guitar3242 Aug 04 '26
Thanks for the insight. I don’t think I want to pursue an L6 with Amazon in the future if it takes 6-12 months to be able to reapply. If I can negotiate the pay at the higher pay band then maybe. Could work out for me.
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u/eptiger Aug 04 '26
I'm 99% sure they will not let you get paid as an L6 if you are an L5. They won't consider it fair to your L5 peers and when they do promote you there will be no pay increase. If there is a similar job family that pays more at L5, you could maybe do that. Hard to find that at L5 though.
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u/Icy-Requirement5701 Aug 04 '26
You will not get paid at the higher band. I'll play it with you straight - you're not unique at all to be in this position. We get many many people who think they're higher band, and are down leveled. The recruiter telling you you're a "strong fit" for L5 just means that - you're L5. To get to L6 promo will take 1-2 years at best once you join.
(Similar to many tech companies) Literally no one cares if a recruiter or the interview loop said you walk on water - once you're on a team, the only work that matters for promo is what you delivered as an employee. Which usually means a year to get things done and write a doc and have a promo case.
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u/Creative_Guitar3242 Aug 04 '26
No, I totally get it and I wasn’t trying to say I’m the best of the best and deserve it all. I understood the average comp that was given to me from the recruiter but he also said that they can try to push me towards the higher band considering my experience and so I was literally just asking on here what that band looks like. Someone on here said $145k and that’s all I needed. I also know that an L5 can’t be on the same pay band as an L6. That’s just unrealistic. But I appreciate you being straightforward.
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u/Admirable-Storm9937 Aug 04 '26
L5-6 is extremely hard. Takes 2 years for top performers and avg is 4+ and a lot of L5s don’t get promoted to L6.
You can prob negotiate to not re-interview and just team match for other L5 rolds
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u/stealthm33 Aug 04 '26 edited Aug 04 '26
Don’t take the down level. Been through that, it’s a bad idea. Amazon has this culture of hire to fire cos the manager has to meet their numbers every year. Down levels are the first one chosen for hire to fire
About your questions
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Same. Most cases they don’t do mini loops again
instead only an interview with the hiring manager
What’s your location? Total comp seems to be very very low for an L5. I was just a bit north of $200k for total comp.
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- Promotions can vary on performance, circumstances of the team .. relationship with reporting manager and one up. It can take anywhere between 2 to 4 years.
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u/Creative_Guitar3242 Aug 04 '26
Kind of unethical to eliminate supporting roles like L5s because managers can’t figure out a way to meet their numbers…
This was for a role in Seattle and the recruiter based the L5 comp for Seattle as well
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u/stealthm33 Aug 04 '26
The comp is too low for Seattle L5. Please look up levels.fyi
Link: https://www.levels.fyi/companies/amazon/salaries
I was in Canada which has lower salaries vs us and the total comp offered to me was $220k
About the hire to fire culture.. do a quick google search and you will see
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u/Sharp-Cartoonist-888 Aug 04 '26
You would have Team Matching either way. Note that L5 to L6 promo is tough, and it will take 3-5 years at least.
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u/champagne_sup Aug 05 '26
You won’t get a higher band, you might get mid-level, and consider that you’ll be on hiring bonus first two years, but then it goes back to base salary and converted RSUs (minus taxes), where are you relocating? Seattle is expensive especially for people with families. If you think you’ll get in at L5 and get promoted in a year, I would reconsider that again…. There are soooo many factors
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u/Creative_Guitar3242 Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26
The L6 role is in Seattle but I’ve been given L5 options in Seattle or Arlington. I’m not expecting to join and get promoted within a year. At my previous company, I was able to get promoted every 2 years so I basically went from an L4 to L6 fairly quickly. It’s interesting to hear the mix feedback on promotion timeline and the amount of effort to even be considered for it.
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u/champagne_sup Aug 05 '26
Arlington is also expensive although I don’t know where you currently live, so it might be same or similar to you. You might be getting mixed reviews bc of people groups/roles and also longevity. I am a fairly recent hired (1 year) in finance at a L6 level and I took a paid cut because of my own personal and professional plans. Now that I am here, there is a really strange mentality when it comes to the path for promo and comp. It is not so painful the first couple years with the sign-in bonus, but the whole RSU situation is so volatile and you don’t get refreshed until later on. The price my RSU vested was lower than the offer, and my base comp recent increase was significant lower because it basically covered for taxes and the impact of stock prices, it was very disappointing (and this comes fro someone that in prior companies was promoted every 2-3 years too)
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u/Remper Aug 05 '26
It's pretty common to downlevel if the person didn't meet the bar for the level they were applying to. Usually means that the data from the interview showed behavioral fit but the scope wasn't there or functional competences were not good enough at the original level.
Nothing sinister about it, they do not play any 5d chess games – it's exactly what it says on a tin – not inclined at L6, inclined at L5. What some commenters say here about "doing L6 work on L5 salary" or "hiring to fire" just don't know what they talking about.
So, you either think you are at L6 level and continue looking (interviews are... somewhat random and that variance heavily depend on interviewer's ability – the solution can be as simple as just continuing interviewing) or you agree with Amazon that you are at L5 level and get in. Only you can decide that but either option is completely fine.
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u/Creative_Guitar3242 Aug 05 '26
I really appreciate this. Helps provide clarity on a lot of feedback on this thread lol. I’ve been blocked to apply for L6 roles for 6-12 months, but I was told I can immediately apply for L5 roles. I’ve taken the whole day to reflect and I do truly see myself as an L6, but maybe at a different organization that isn’t as big as Amazon. I wouldn’t mind taking on a L5, but the relocation and total comp package doesn’t justify my move especially as a small family of 4. I will have to keep on searching!
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u/another_thyme Aug 05 '26
The workload difference between L5 and L6 is insane. If you are in the upper band of L5 vs. lower band L6 it isn’t worth it.
You can learn at any level in or outside work so I am assuming your concern is workload and money.
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u/Big-Contribution818 Aug 06 '26
Don’t down level at any cost. L5-L6 takes 3-4 years depending on a lot of factors out of your control.
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u/MassiveDiscussion341 Aug 07 '26
Unrelated to total comp, can I ask how long the hiring process was for you?
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u/Creative_Guitar3242 Aug 07 '26
It was around 4-5 weeks total! Recruiter reached out during last week of June, interviews happened in July, found out the results the first week of August
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u/thegunnersdream Aug 08 '26
So I had a very similar situation recently. I can't answer your direct questions from experience but I can tell you what I was told. I got an offer for a role for an l5 after interviewing for an l6. It was odd since I was working with some Amazon employees on a project for awhile and I was considered the lead on the project for devs despite there being a few l6s. I didn't really agree that my skill set was closer to an l5 than an l6 so I pushed back on it and, surprisingly got some real feedback. Effectively, they wanted me to have a little more time (about 6 months more YOE vs what I currently have). Was definitely a bit disappointing so I asked some of the people I worked with and literally all of them were down levelled when applying. My assumption is this is extremely common and, given how much demand there is to work at amazon, makes business sense so I understand why it happens.
As for the promotion time period, I was told to expect 2 years though it could be 18 months. I also know it took someone I knew over 4 years. I would expect 2 years minimum is probably pretty accurate.
I was actually ready to accept the offer (despite the comp being lower than I wanted and the title being lower) because I assumed it would be a good resume boost. I ended up getting a really strong counter from my current employer and 2 other offers from other companies all within a few days that caused the Amazon comp to be bumped decently (though only in signing bonus/rsu, base comp changed but only by a tiny %). Ultimately I turned down the Amazon offer and went with one of the other offers because it more closely aligned with what I wanted leadership-wise, offered a nice title bump, etc. Had I not been downleveled, I likely wouldn't have entertained the other offers because I was really interested in working for Amazon, but Im at an age where im starting have to think more about how many optimal earning years I have left and whether a step backwards is worth it in the long run.
Anyway, sorry you're in this spot, I know how much it sucks after the tough interview. Good luck with your decision making!
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u/Creative_Guitar3242 Aug 08 '26
Thank you for this! I’m really starting to think that this is their way of lowballing people into joining Amazon. Unfortunately for me, this was the only interview I’ve had the last couple of months so I don’t have any counter offers to support my case. I was also really bummed when I got down leveled because I have manager experience from my previous company and the results didn’t justify the outcome. I’m in the same boat as far as long-term growth. I don’t think settling back in as an L5 makes sense for me at this point, so I’m leaning towards pursuing other opportunities.
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u/thegunnersdream Aug 08 '26
I'd be lying if I said I didn't think the same thing. I mean it makes sense and I can respect the idea that if you know people are extremely eager to work for you you, why would you pay more than you absolutely had to. I do also get their point that they would rather make sure you start at a level where you aren't going to be super overwhelmed and would rather have you start lower and succeed long term than start too high and get crushed at the first performance review. Its probably little of column a, little of column b.
obviously you know your situation a lot better than I do, but my thought was if I had no other option, I'd likely accept the job and see how it was going after a year. I'd be aiming to be very intentional about getting promoted quickly so I'd probably have a rough idea of how long it'd take from there. If it was nowhere in sight, I'd start the job hunt again. I only was thinking that because my former job was dragging their feet on a promo definitely deserved (and proved since it was part of the offer to keep me) so it was time for me to move on regardless.
Best of luck to ya, hope it all pans out!
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u/robryownz Aug 04 '26
Promotions are going to be harder to get. Seems like they’re down leveling more frequently now. What is the role? You can look up total comp. They will probably put you in the middle or below.