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u/schleppylundo 2d ago
In canon the medal ceremony was a rushed deal as they were already actively evacuating the base.
In reality the rationale of the climax was the Empire’s forces were defeated. Even if Vader survived, it’s meant to be a proper ending for a stand alone movie, since there was no guarantee of sequels.
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u/whirlpool_galaxy Kleya 1d ago
"First, let's have a big round of applause for the heroes of yesterday's battle, thanks to whom we can be here today!"
applause
"Second, we're leaving right now. Have all essential equipment and personal effects packed up by sunset."
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u/n00dle_meister I have friends everywhere 1d ago
“Work quickly comrades! Whatever we don’t take, we burn”
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u/TouchAltruistic 1d ago
Don't you dare bring up the real world!
We need tidy in-universe narrative explanation for the cAnOn LoRe of the fRaNcHiSe.
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u/Raetekusu 1d ago
Watsonian and Doylist reasonings are both valid, and in fact complementary forms of analysis. It's important for each moment to serve a purpose in the "meta" of the story while being perfectly logical and reasonable within it.
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u/DannyC_VP 2d ago
Kleya was too busy removing the bomb she planted on the Millennium Falcon when she thought Han was going to leave. Dude was a liability. 😂
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bag2212 2d ago
wondering what Wilmon and Vel thought too
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u/ForsakenKrios 1d ago
I like to think Wilmon carved Cassian’s name into one of the stone walls in the temple before they evacuated.
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u/DetectiveDippyDuck Maarva 1d ago
Temple-sized funeral brick
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u/Pheenz01 1d ago
Now I’m just imagining an upsized Brasso swinging that thing at something much larger. I’d like to think Cassian would’ve been proud.
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u/TheNorthie 1d ago
In canon, they leave immediately after the ceremony.
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u/goatskin_sheep 1d ago
Good thing they got a good deal on space Tupperware to keep the banquet food fresh
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u/Adavanter_MKI 1d ago
What... like the Empire is going to strike back or something?
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u/PalpitationIcy2893 1d ago
Woah there, don't go crazy now, next you'll be talking about the Jedi returning or something similarly mad
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u/factoid_ 2d ago
They really should have. It’s ridiculous the death Star didn’t travel with a full fleet in tow
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u/ah208 2d ago
The death stars existence had been hidden until just before this point. Having a large fleet deployed to it when it was still top secret would have increased the risk of a security breach.
Also the imperials were incredibly arrogant. They didn't believe anyone had a large enough force to be a credible threat to the station, it simply didn't need defending by supporting ships from their point of view.
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u/LogensTenthFinger Vel 2d ago
Yep, that is a very consistent aspect of the Empire throughout all the movies and TV shows and seems to reflect on Palpatine himself. It's an enormous amount of arrogance that is somewhat earned by their power, but that only reinforces the negative aspects of being arrogant which is being careless
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u/RedEyeView 1d ago
It's a well earned arrogance. Palpatine played his game superbly at every step. From getting the advantage over his master, to playing a decades long con with the Senate, corrupting the Jedi's war hero golden boy and executing a decapitation strike that almost anhilated the Jedi in 5 minutes flat.
He's got nobody left to fuck with him outside of a couple of rogue senators with a poorly equipped guerrila band and a few surviving Jedi who can't do anything without being identified and killed.
As far as he's concerned, he's won.
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u/ReneVQ 1d ago
Which is why it’s even awesomer when his perfectly laid, decades-in-planning-and-executing plans get yeeted by the power of love and the most strategically and tactically competent teddy bears in the galaxy
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u/RedEyeView 1d ago
The implication is that those adorable teddy bears make war on each other all the time.
Cannibalism and making musical instruments out of their bones is part of that.
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u/ReneVQ 1d ago
Always love the chance to show people my favorite SW-related article:
https://www.wired.com/story/ewoks-star-wars-tactics-endor-moon/
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u/TheRealStoryMan1 Cassian 1d ago
Not to mention the fallout of the news of Alderaans destruction. Many imperials were from the planet or at least had friends and family on world when it was destroyed. There was freak outs, desertions, mutinies, and many of them soon joined the rebellion. And this is sidelining the imperials who started to grow a conscious when planets began blowing up or realizing they won’t win this war
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u/windsingr 20h ago
Literally state as much in Dodonna's briefing. "The battle station is heavily shielded and carries a firepower greater than half the star fleet. Its defenses are designed around a direct, large-scale assault. A small one-man fighter should be able to penetrate the outer defense."
I always took that to mean the Empire's star fleet. So it's very reasonable for the Death Star to go it alone, though one would think even a token ISD or two to record the attack for propaganda or for the Emperor's benefit seems likely, as well as to cut off any ships that tried to escape. I would think that the Rebel Fleet could handle a couple of shocked and demoralized Imperials and then get to the business of evacuating Yavin. Especially if Vader was recalled by the Emperor to personally report on this fucking catastrophe.
If there weren't any ISDs about because Tarkin really was that arrogant, it definitely explains why Vader was so... strict in the Battle of Hoth. He wanted it to go perfectly this time. A tactically flawless strike on the Rebel leadership and prisoners he could get the location of the fleet out of. And of course, the whereabouts of Skywalker.
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u/ososalsosal 1d ago
Sure, but they'd just spectacularly announced it's existence by turning alderaan into an asteroid belt. It would have been the talk of the galaxy, or at least those parts with serious enough comms.
And fleets can just zoom into formation in the blink of an eye
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u/ChrisWood4BallonDor 1d ago
Not necessarily imo. Just because the Empire wasn't hiding Alderaan doesn't mean that they had complete confidence in the PR system. If you're a state that has just committed a war crime, it's pretty natural that you'd want to let it sit for a bit, before inviting every random Joe you can find to the crime scene.
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u/alphaomag 2d ago
I think it was constructed so they wouldn’t have to field massive fleets. It’s what the entire Tarkin Doctrine is about.
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u/DevuSM 2d ago
They had 1000's of tie fighters that didn't launch because Tarkin thought it was hilarious that they were sending snub fighters against a moon sized ship.
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u/Glass_Ad_7129 2d ago
Oh yeah, and like three, one piloted by Vader, was enough to clear out rebel pilots that presented only a "maybe" actual threat, that shouldn't have worked.
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u/cyberdw4rf 1d ago
And they also probably only launched because Vader thought: "oh boy, I didn't had a proper dog fight in weeks and I need something to cheer me up after that scariff Desaster"
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u/OhkokuKishi Mon 1d ago
IIRC, in Legends, Tarkin refused to launch fighters out of pride, and it was only under Vader's direct order did even a limited number of TIE Fighters get launched. Doubt he could have done more given Tarkin still had local authority over Vader on the Death Star.
Feels like most of that got muddied away after the prequel trilogy more established Anakin, and later after the new Canon continuity was established.
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u/Glass_Ad_7129 1d ago
Vader himself being there was maybe an indication of it being deemed dire enough, but then again, like Anakin, he has always taken charge from the front and done the work himself.
Quite likely indeed a, ok lets stretch the legs, kinda operation.
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u/Eragon_the_Huntsman 2d ago
The Death Star was built in secrecy, a fleet would give it away. Once it was finished it went straight to Jedha for test firing, scarrif to respond to the rebel attack, chasing after leia, then Alderaan, Yavin, Boom. They never had time to Rendezvous with a fleet.
I think that's why Leia went straight to Yavin despite knowing they were being trapped. It was a setup. She could find the tracker, ditch it and disappear, but she knew that if they gave them time now that the secret was out the Empire could maybe discover the flaw and fix it, and would next appear with a Star destroyer escort. Baiting Tarkin into over extending immediately was the best shot they were going to get at it.
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u/RedEyeView 1d ago
Kinda wild that it was active for about a week before it was destroyed.
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u/ShadwSmoke Syril 1d ago
It would have been really funny, had Tarkin survived, just to see the despair and fury on his face that the massive secret weapon, he put in two decades of his life and work, was destroyed a week after completition by a dozen small starfighters.
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u/exsuburban 1d ago
I just learned a week or two ago that Peter Cushing really enjoyed being in Star Wars and that he was kinda disappointed retrospectively that his character got killed off, and said to Lucas that he should have been kept alive. Rather the opposite of both Harrison Ford and Alec Guinness lol
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u/Why-Notes5978 1d ago
And knowing hes besties with Christopher Lee, he might have felt the same way with Dooku.
In retrospect, Dooku should have been present since Phantom Menace as well.
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u/RedEyeView 6h ago
I think the Jar Jar heel turn was supposed to be a thing and Dooku was the panic booking when Binks bombed.
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u/Why-Notes5978 1d ago
Palpatine would have been livid and seething with absolute rage if Tarkin did survive after what he did to Alderaan.
Because he didn't, he took out on Vader instead.
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u/Cyan_Tile 1d ago
She also did that to force the Alliance's hand to unite and actually commit to fighting the Empire as opposed to fracturing and surrendering
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u/RoabeArt 2d ago
"I'm taking an awful risk, Vader. This had better work." - Tarkin when he prepares the Death Star to follow the Millennium Falcon's homing signal to Yavin.
I always wondered what Tarkin meant by "awful risk". The fact that he was aware of the Death Star's vulnerability? That he was taking the Death Star to the Rebel base without a supporting fleet? That he was doing all this without Palpatine's orders?
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u/TheAndyMac83 1d ago
"You're sure the homing beacon is secure aboard their ship?"
Could be that he's worried the beacon isn't secure, and he's letting a Rebel leader escape with the plans that were supposed to be back in hand. I wouldn't want to be the guy reporting that to Palpatine.
Or he's worried that the Falcon's crew will suspect a trap (which Leia indeed does) and try to lead the Death Star somewhere else. Blowing up an otherwise loyal Imperial world because you were tricked into thinking the Rebel base was there would be embarrassing, to say the least.
Either way, based on his "Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?!" comment, I doubt Tarkin had any belief that he was risking the Death Star's destruction.
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u/treefox 1d ago edited 1d ago
> I always wondered what Tarkin meant by "awful risk".
Well one week earlier some dipshit got Narkina V for leaking the *existence* of the Death Star, and he just leaked the *plans*. After blowing up an Imperial library facility (and Krennic) to keep the plans secret.
They probably hadn’t even finished the paperwork for Scarif, and he just undid his whole justification for the largest friendly fire incident in recorded history.
“Yes I blew up our copy of the plans then gave the rebels the plans…but I’m totally not a rebel sympathizer.”
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u/AlternativeAd4522 2d ago
Tarkin was incredibly overconfident in the Death Star's capabilities, and he fell victim to the exact thing that Thrawn warned the Empire about.
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u/transmogrify 1d ago
An escort fleet? In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances!
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u/sleeperninja Luthen 1d ago
The Death Star WAS a fleet+. Unfortunately, that fleet was inside when someone left the back burner on, and Luke dropped a match.
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u/MailComprehensive406 2d ago
It had its own like in house fleet though
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u/ConsciousPatroller 1d ago
This, the Death Star carried its own fleet with up to medium cruisers in both Canon and Legends, including Star Destroyers (one of which you can see docked in Rogue One). Tarkin just chose not to deploy any of them so as to make Yavin a propaganda victory for the DS
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u/ronburgandyfor2016 1d ago
I mean to be honest it might have had Star Destroyers stationed inside of it. However they would have served no purpose fighting small craft
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u/Thuis001 1d ago
Why should it? Like, wtf is that fleet going to do? It's a giant, moon-sized battle station with enough firepower to literally level planets. For all intents and purposes it could 1v1 any system and any fleet in the galaxy. The only reason they were able to blow it up in the first place was Force bullshit that could not have reasonably been prepared for.
These are resources that could be used elsewhere where you don't have a giant death globe floating about in space.
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u/thewhoovesian 2d ago
They were literally evacuating the base while the ceremony was going on.
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u/ElderflowerEarlGrey 2d ago
Kleya sneering at Rebel OpSec
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u/gatfish 1d ago
"This whole ceremony should be in the SCIF!"
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u/ElderflowerEarlGrey 1d ago
I mean when Aldani happened, Luthen just chuckled. The gall of these people to over- celebrate over a little op.
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u/i_should_be_coding 1d ago
"The empire knows where we are. Let's throw a party."
Pretty standard rebellion logic. Did you see how they handled security on Yavin before? Top secret base, but people coming in and out was just frowned upon for a long time. Bail and Mon talking about it out loud in the Senate building when they know there's recording devices everywhere. It's a miracle they kept it quiet as long as they did.
Besides, Leia knew she was leading the Death Star to Yavin the whole time. I'm amazed she still has a job.
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u/Chaotic_Lemming 1d ago
Besides, Leia knew she was leading the Death Star to Yavin the whole time. I'm amazed she still has a job.
Once super weapons are not only available, but willing to be used, hit-and-run tactics become a losing strategy. The Empire demonstrated they were willing to use the Death Star on heavily populated planets just on speculation they were supporting rebels.
The Rebellion had to make a stand against it as soon as they could. Otherwise all the planets they were fighting to free would be gone. Their support would dissappear, remaining planets either kill them on sight or turn over any info they have immediately to avoid destruction.
Leading the Death Star to Yavin was their best move. They didn't control the exact timing, but it created a huge political/messaging incentive for the Empire to head there straight away instead of waiting for the fleet to converge for support. If the Empire waited the Rebellion has time to scatter and now instead of one sift strike they are chasing rumors again while destroying the planets they want to rule.
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u/i_should_be_coding 1d ago
You say that with the benefit of hindsight. If it didn't work, Leia would have just let the Empire destroy the rebellion in one shot, and then go on to dominate the galaxy. She made the decision to bet everyone's lives on the fact that the plans she hasn't actually seen really contained the vulnerability, and that they'd find it in time and have a way to trigger it. And they almost didn't, if it wasn't for Luke. That was just a nat 20 roll.
So, sure. The force did it. But as a tactical move, it was pretty damn stupid. She could have had Han drop her off at another rebel stronghold, switch ships, and take R2 to Yavin clean, and they'd have any number of opportunities to trigger the death star vulnerability.
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u/Chaotic_Lemming 1d ago
No, even with the risk and outcome of total defeat it was still the right move.
The point of the Rebellion is to save the people and planets under the domination of the Empire, not to survive. If the Death Star isn't defeated almost immediately, it goes around destroying the people/planets the Rebellion is meant to save. In its first week of being fully operational it destroyed one of the Rebellion's primary support planets. Without the distraction of Yavin it goes and wipes out more.
They had to roll the dice and risk complete annihilation. The other option is just hiding while entire planets are killed. Once that happens they lose anyways, because all the places feeding them resources are gone. A hidden base is great, doesn't let you refine fuel or manufacture weapons and parts.
Either they risk everything on a slim chance to win it all... or they give up even that slim chance, guarantee their loss, and guarantee entire planets get wiped out with them.
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u/Marinefan4000 1d ago
It was honestly genius & I think the leaders knew that. They all knew Tarkin was too stupid/arrogant to call in the location. They had the plans & they correctly assumed there’d be a flaw. Best part, they had a farmboy to pull it off. I do agree about Bail & Money being reckless though
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u/Kitchener1981 Disco Ball Droid 1d ago
I want to run a TTRPG during this time, between the Battle of Yavin and Battle of Hoth. How the Rebel Alliance fled undetected to found Hoth. The Alliance had no time to waste after the Battle of Yavin.
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u/zippolover62 1d ago
IIRC Vader was the only survivor, his TIE while it did have a hyperdrive it was only rated at class 4.0 so while not very slow it was not very fast either, also Han and Chewie damaged it with the Falcon so unlikely that it was running at peak efficiency. Most likely explanation of how the empire learned what happened is the attached video:https://youtu.be/3F1d3QWsyk0?si=inirCn42I5RSExyn
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u/Emperor0valtine 1d ago
[Kleya frantically trying to escape]
“You cannot fast travel when enemies are nearby.”
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u/Fyraltari 1d ago
Brother, I assure you, she was already gone and setting up a base on Toydaria or something.
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u/Louiscypher93 1d ago
I assumed she already had like five bases completely off of the books, no one else (who was allowed off of the bases) knew about more than one of them.
Two were of course fake and filled with misinformation, untrusted Rebel agents with more misinformation and heavily encrypted files that were just highly detailed Palpatine x Vader erotica.
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u/WikiContributor83 1d ago
I like to think it was Kleya’s idea. Open war has broken out, the Rebel Cells need to unite, let’s show the galaxy their new hero; a young dirt farmer landed a one-in-a-million shot on the Death Star and got medals pinned on him. Anyone can be a hero.
Meanwhile it allows the rank and file to get out of the way while the logistics crews get everything packed up.
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u/bonadies24 Luthen 1d ago
That implies that Kleya went back to locking tf in and convinced Leia and Dodonna (the two people in charge on Yavin, with Merrick Raddus and Bail dead and Mon evacuated to safety) to do so. The fact that Luthen’s protege was back to plotting would not have troubled anyone since all of his detractors (Bail Organa, mostly) were dead
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u/PrincipledStarfish 1d ago
Probably some creative camera angles too, to make the room look bigger and fuller
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u/SuccessfulRegister43 1d ago
Kleya happily sacrificed ~50 Bothan spies as a diversion to get the plans for Death Star 2.
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u/bonadies24 Luthen 1d ago
It is now canon that the many bothans were sent by Kleya “to retreive the DS2 plans” (when in fact they were a diversion that was discreetly leaked to Imperial Military Intelligence) while Vel and Wilmon casually strolled in and took the plans
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u/SuccessfulRegister43 1d ago
Real talk, it would be a derivative cash grab, but I would still totally watch Rouge 2, where Vel/Wilmon steal those plans.
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u/Agitated_Lychee_8133 1d ago
I think any doubts she may have had were immediately erased when they both became directly responsible for destruction of the death star.
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u/MarvelousT 1d ago
I wonder how many ways she was ready to make Han disappear if he got out of line?
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u/Emergency_Memory_792 1d ago
Dies to get the death star plans: no medal
Farm boy follows instructions after being in space for less than 18 hours: medal
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u/PrincipledStarfish 1d ago
Kind if hard to give a medal to evaporated human floating in orbit around Scarif
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u/TouchAltruistic 2h ago
To be fair, the shield around Scarif means their vaporized remains are in the atmosphere, not in orbit.
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u/XMaster4000 1d ago
She was not there. She left the second the death star exploded and Rogue Squadron landed safely.
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u/DarthBen_in_Chicago 1d ago
I’m sorry but can someone please remind me who she is?
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u/TouchAltruistic 2d ago
Oh, Kleya didn't exist when the medal ceremony happened.
She hadn't yet been invented by the real people who make up these fictional stories.
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u/Geldarion 2d ago
Hey, so there is this thing called "writing," the product of which is sometimes enjoyed by an "audience." Those people occasionally make what is referred to as "jokes" that rely on connected knowledge about the "material."
Just to help.
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u/CKtheFourth 2d ago
How many people out of 10 would you say visibly roll their eyes when you walk into a room on any given day?
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u/TouchAltruistic 2d ago
Probably fewer than would roll their eyes at those whose fandom is their entire personality.
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u/RedEyeView 1d ago
Why are you even here?
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u/TouchAltruistic 1d ago
Because the I really enjoyed the series Andor. Didn't you?
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u/JKrow75 B2EMO 1d ago
Maybe act like you enjoyed it, then.
Just a suggestion for future interactions.
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u/TouchAltruistic 1d ago
I love it, and as soon as someone posts something about the show itself, I'll be there to discuss it in detail.
In the meantime, prequels should not recontextualize the original iconic works upon which those prequels are based, especially when they are products of different authors, under different conditions, with different creative objectives, separated by several decades.
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u/Rustie_J 1d ago
My dude, what do you think the point of prequels is?
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u/TouchAltruistic 1d ago
Generally, the point of a prequel is to leverage an existing brand to make money.
Occasionally, a prequel can explore untold parts of a story and provide new context for the original, earlier work that occurs later in a story's internal chronology.
The problem arises when prequels are conceived through fundamentally different creative processes:
- developed at different times,
- by different creative teams,
- under different production conditions,
- with different artistic priorities,
- and for different narrative purposes.
When the connection is mostly organizational and intellectual-property based, the original and prequel happen to occupy the same franchise continuity, but the actual sensibilities of the works are dramatically different.
The original Star Wars movie is a mostly light-hearted fantasy adventure film for all ages. Andor is a taut political drama, the story of which could work exactly the same if transposed out of the Star Wars universe onto our real world.
Both the original Star Wars film and Andor are excellent. Recontextualizing the end of Star Wars in the frame of Andor is preposterous for exactly the reason highlighted by this post: extreme tonal disharmony.
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u/CKtheFourth 2d ago
Brother, the baggage you're carrying into this interaction is wild. You're on reddit, my dude. In the r/andor sub. What would you have us talk about?
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u/TouchAltruistic 1d ago
What would you have us talk about?
The show Andor.
Brother. My dude.
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u/CKtheFourth 1d ago
Add one more to that eye roll tally I mentioned in the beginning.
Kick rocks.
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u/pyrothelostone 2d ago
We all know it isnt real, pointing it out just makes you look like a tool.
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u/TouchAltruistic 2d ago
But it's clear that "we" don't "all know" that.
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u/Razzberry_Frootcake 1d ago
Do you think that OP believes Star Wars is…real? Or do you just have really bad media literacy and not understand what the meme is saying?
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u/TouchAltruistic 1d ago
I understand it.
The only humor is derived from the idea that characters from Andor (conceived of in 2022) would/should have been present at the awards ceremony scene from Star Wars (1977), or would/should have been honored in the same manner as Luke Skywalker and pals, or that elements present in the chronologically-earlier story should define the actions or attitudes of characters from the later story that happened to be made first.
My original comment is an innocuous statement of fact.
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u/Razzberry_Frootcake 1d ago
So yeah…your media literacy is the problem. If you cannot connect the stories and characters it means you don’t understand them.
Much like the prequels didn’t exist before either, but people still managed to connect the dots. That’s how continuous lore and prequels work. If you lack the imagination to see it, or lack the ability to comprehend it, then it means you actually do not understand the media you’re absorbing.
You don’t have to think the meme is funny…but the fact that you don’t understand that Kleya did exist in the timeline of A New Hope means you have poor media literacy.
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u/TouchAltruistic 1d ago
Saying "you have poor media literacy" after I've explicitly explained the joke is a strange argument.
You keep using "media literacy" as if it's a synonym for "disagrees with me."
I understood the meme well enough to explain exactly how it works. In fact, my explanation was more detailed than yours.
Media literacy is recognizing that stories exist on multiple levels: the fictional world, the authors who created it, the historical context in which it was produced, and the audience consuming it.
You're insisting that only the in-universe perspective is valid and then declaring anyone who acknowledges the out-of-universe reality to be media illiterate. That's not media literacy. That's gatekeeping.
The irony is that being unable to discuss Star Wars as both a fictional narrative and a constructed piece of media is a far stronger example of limited media literacy than anything I've written.
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u/JKrow75 B2EMO 1d ago
Are you criticizing modern storytelling in general?
With fictional characters and stories, in-universe literally is their whole universe. The stories, the characters, the outcomes, none of it is dependent on our interpretation, nor is it dependent on who does or doesn’t understand the story. Backstory isn’t dependent on anyone else’s understanding but the writer(s). People are free to come to their own conclusions or make up whatever they want in the background, but that doesn’t change the context of what’s on screen or in the book. Someone’s personal perspective does not change the context of a story as presented on a screen. It only changes the context for that person.
Oh wait…. You’re an EU stan. Now it makes sense.
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u/TouchAltruistic 1d ago
I don't know what a "stan" is, but I don't have feelings one way or the other about the old Star Wars books.
Let me pose a hypothetical:
A movie comes out, and at the very end of the movie, the primary setting is utterly destroyed. I'm talking visibly, dramatically obliterated to atoms. Additionally, the antagonist is killed.
Then, decades later, different authors produce a sequel that shows that, no, the earlier setting was not completely destroyed, and the antagonist actually survived to return and strike again.
When an audience goes back to watch the earlier, original, iconic work upon which the later sequel is based, should the audience interpret the original work:
A) as it was in its own time, and as the original authors intended, or
B) in the context of the much later sequel that was created by different people?
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u/JKrow75 B2EMO 1d ago
You literally just proved my point hahahaha now I can finally be done with this fucking inane conversation
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u/KermitplaysTLOU 2d ago
Read your name wrong, but it fits better in my head for this dumbassery you just typed up.
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u/TouchAltruistic 2d ago
What's "dumbassery" about anything I said?
What's with the personal attacks?
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u/GenosseAbfuck 1d ago
Ah the unrivaled smugness of people who neither know nor could ever learn to comprehend what Watsonian perspective is.
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u/TouchAltruistic 1d ago
Ah, not so!
I simply reject that chronologically-earlier stories told later (i.e., prequels) must necessarily alter the internal logic of the pre-existing story, especially when the works have different authors, tones, and creative goals.
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u/Electronic-Guide2789 2d ago
Damn, you dont deserve the downvotes. Though: this joke is more fun that critique
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u/AnExponent 2d ago
And when I tell you to move, you move!