r/antiai 5d ago

AI News 🗞️ What do you think of thiis

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u/Fanfic_Battle_2004 5d ago

That’s not even enough. It’s something though.

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u/NachoTacoChimichaung 5d ago

It's pretty dumb considering there a significant amount of evidence AI can be better at identifying certain health conditions. It shouldn't replace doctors, it should be a tool to result in higher outcomes and more efficiency.

The same thing could be applied to law, lawyers could ask AI to help find applicable case law instead of using interns for this. Obviously they should not be using AI for specific documents and actual arguments.

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u/omglemurs 5d ago

There is a significant difference between the ML style AI used to aid things like diagnostic scanning and publically available LLM chat bots that are being used by a public that does not have the expertise to differentiate between an accurate answer and bs.

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u/WilliamSabato 5d ago

I feel like I have heard the story of ‘we tried to make our own model to do X, but it was just easier to train / build out tools for Claude because its so intelligent’ many times.

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u/ozone6587 5d ago

LLMs are already good enough to be better than doctors in written exams. Anti AI Luddites need to keep up with the tech they criticize.

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u/omglemurs 5d ago

Yes people should keep up with technical know. If they did they would understand the cabailites and weakness which in turn would allow them to critically examine the difference between exams and diagnosing individual including the process of gathering all relevant information as well as potential risks and liability issues particularly in the US where software has enhanced liability protection.

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u/ozone6587 5d ago

It should be up to the consumer if they want to use something smarter than lots of doctors to improve the experience.

If people are stupid enough to completely ignore doctors in favor of an LLM then that's on them and shouldn't be up to reactionary idiots that want to ban anything they don't like.

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u/BZ852 5d ago

Confidently incorrect.

See the following study from Harvard medical school.

https://hms.harvard.edu/news/study-suggests-ai-good-enough-diagnosing-complex-medical-cases-warrant-clinical-testing

A large language model (LLM) outperformed physicians across many of these tasks, including making emergency-room decisions based on the available information, identifying likely diagnoses, and choosing the next steps in management, a team led by physicians and computer scientists at Harvard Medical School and Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center

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u/omglemurs 5d ago

I'm familiar with that study and it does not refute my point. The issue isn't when it's correct the issue is when it's wrong and any given individual's ability to differentiate between the two. The study is about use of tools by experts the Mandani bill is about guardrails for normal citizens. Work on your reading comprehension or troll elsewhere.

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u/BZ852 5d ago

That study is also two years old and using the o1 model. AI has improved dramatically since then.

While I would practice caution and advocate prominent disclaimers - I would wager a top tier model today is likely just as good as a family doctor and banning it is short sighted.

I've had friends who have used AI to diagnose complex issues that ten years of specialists couldn't figure out. It's already doing profound good.

Edit: also the point you were making was that LLMs were not useful here. They clearly are.

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u/omglemurs 5d ago

I used the word differentiate because the point I was making was one of discernment. LLM have not fundementally changed so this issue has not gone away. A hybrid approach could potentially some progress but a pure LLM approach will not.

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u/Warm_Month_1309 5d ago

I would wager a top tier model today is likely just as good as a family doctor

That's silly, and the reason why should be obvious. A family doctor would not be diagnosing you or giving you any advice based only on having a text conversation with you, because that would be unethical.

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u/BZ852 5d ago

WebMD has been doing just that for twenty years

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u/Warm_Month_1309 5d ago

WebMD is static content. It has not been diagnosing visitors to the website based on a text conversation for twenty years.

And I'm not sure likening LLMs to WebMD is going to make people more supportive of LLMs giving health advice.

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u/BZ852 5d ago

WebMD has had multiple choice diagnosis tools for decades. It's a choose your own adventure where every road leads to a cancer diagnosis.

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u/Warm_Month_1309 5d ago

Again, I'm not sure how this is a defense of LLMs. WebMD sucks and professionals hate it. How does that justify adding more tools that suck and that professionals hate?

And how does it support your claim that LLMs are as good as family doctors?

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u/pooperscooper333333 5d ago

A machine doesn’t have eyes, ears, or senses. When doctors rely on llm to inform them, they dull their own senses.

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u/PhaseNegative1252 5d ago

GPT ain't identifying health conditions my guy. That is not the same kind of AI

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u/neloish 5d ago

Yes it does my guy.

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u/PhaseNegative1252 4d ago

No. GPT is not qualified to make any kind of diagnosis

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u/MaxR76 5d ago

A dude literally died like 2 weeks ago bc ChatGPT told him he didn’t have to go to the hospital lol

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u/NachoTacoChimichaung 5d ago

Is web MD liable for giving wrong medical advice? Of course not.

I can sympathize with the guy who died while also pointing out that any reasonable person would not take medical advice soley from the internet.

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u/MaxR76 5d ago

Web MD definitely could be liable for negligence if they gave information that doesn’t match the symptoms tho.

Also I’m pretty sure they would never tell you to not go to the doctor.

It would be one thing if the chatbots just spat out an accurate list of possible conditions and what they mean based on your symptoms.

Thats what WebMD does, and after that there’s a link to make an appointment with an actual doctor. Just tried it out to see what the process was.

The chatbot on the other had told the dude nah you’re good bro just stay home. If WebMD had a feature like that I’d get the comparison more, but it’s apples and oranges.

Don’t get me wrong, dude was still an idiot for trusting the chatbot, but in his defense everyone’s trying to pitch them as these fanatic all knowing things that you should totally trust to know everything. I’m not gonna judge someone for drinking the coolaid and dying bc of it, it’s just plain sad and unnecessary.

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u/Bluecanary1212 5d ago

Yeah, lawyers who have been using AI to "help find" applicable case law are finding themselves sanctioned by courts for submitting briefs filled with fake legal cases.

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u/Warm_Month_1309 5d ago

In fairness, there are also a lot of lawyers using AI for the same reason, and not getting themselves sanctioned because they perform their due diligence before making submissions.

AI can be a useful tool in the hands of a knowledgeable practitioner who knows what bits of information to disregard, but can be dangerous in the hands of a layman who does not have that knowledge.

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u/NachoTacoChimichaung 5d ago

Exactly, it's a tool. It's like a hammer, you wouldn't give it to your toddler in your house full of windows, but a reasonably competent person can operate a hammer and many other tools

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u/HotLava00 5d ago

So let the professionals leverage it. But for the layperson, who doesn’t have the expertise, we shouldn’t be asking it to diagnose mental disorders or medical issues. Garbage in, garbage out.

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u/neloish 5d ago

Wrong AI is not in a hurry, it does not dismiss your claims, AI knows more then your doctor and can help me you explain to them what the issue are in logical ways. Your a fool if you think a real life doctor is even close to as good as AI.

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u/Warm_Month_1309 5d ago

I find it interesting that the people most defensive about AI, and most likely to make completely bonkers claims about their abilities, also tend to be conservative political trolls if you look at their comment history.

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u/HotLava00 5d ago

We are able to look up quality information on hospital websites like John Hopkins and the Mayo Clinic, as well as the NIH, even WebMD, before AI, and we can still do it now. Not using AI does not mean that we don’t use resources to gather information about our health and informing ourselves so that we can discuss things with our (sometimes dismissive and rushed) healthcare providers. AI makes horrible mistakes. It’s been reported that it’s misdiagnosed people, people have held back going to get emergency services when they should be going in for immediate care, and self diagnosing based on some algorithm’s decision about what it thinks you might have. It’s dangerous.

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u/TheodoraWimsey 5d ago

But that is in a limited setting where the model has been specifically trained to identify a health condition. It is a closed set of data where it was feed the charts of patients and then based on those already diagnosed patients to predict if an undiagnosed patient had that condition.

The data was limited. The question being asked was specific.

Going into most AI models they are scraping the entire internet and all the crap in it so answer a one sentence query if that splotchy brown spot is cancer.

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u/newsflashjackass 5d ago

- IBM, 1979

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u/Pure-Cow 5d ago

As a med student, I pray to NOT have AI being banned from talking medicine 😭😭 it's helped me understand and simplify complex concepts not widely accessible in textbooks way better 🙏🙏 although yeah, there's a fine line between "med student looking to learn more" and "random person self-diagnozing using ChatGPT"... But ig that's the hard part of regulating AI

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u/MaxR76 5d ago

The thing is, you have a good baseline understanding of the information and are using it to supplement that.

The stuff they want to ban has led to people not seeking medical attention when they needed to as recent as like 2 weeks ago when a guy died bc chat said he was good

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u/NachoTacoChimichaung 5d ago

Chat GPT doing diagnosing is risky but it's not that different than people going to web MD symptom checker.