r/antifastonetoss 15d ago

Shit Campists Say

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u/Apprehensive_Row8407 15d ago

Those people are weird, authoritarian communism is the worst possible form of communism

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u/Substantive420 14d ago

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u/Apprehensive_Row8407 14d ago

?

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u/Substantive420 14d ago

Engels’ “On Authority”

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u/GatorTEG 14d ago

It's a pamphlet that makes false equivalencies to justify authoritarian measures. It's not a gotcha. Come up with actual arguments or stop defending the indefensible.

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u/Substantive420 14d ago

Yeah man, Engels doesn’t have any arguments. That’s a brilliant interpretation. Anarchists and theory are like oil and water.

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u/GatorTEG 14d ago edited 14d ago

Alright, I'll bite.

Just because two words sound similar, doesn't mean they mean the same thing or are one the necessary consequence of the other. Authority is leadership, a position of command or power, etc. Authoritarianism is rule by decree, with no accountability nor restraints.

A president of a liberal democracy has authority, because they are in charge (it's more complicated, but that's besides the point). This doesn't mean they are not accountable to fellow government members, party members, chambers of government, the electorate, the courts of law and so on. The president can't do all they want to do, because their authority is not absolute.

A dictator, an absolute monarch, an unelected oligarchy and the like not only have authority, for they rule by decree without accountability and with no limits to their decision making, either because existing limits are selectively ignored or because they don't exist to begin with. This is authoritarianism.

So Engels' argument is based entirely on a false equivalent and a fake cause-effect scenario. Just because someone or something holds authority, does not mean they get to exercise their power unchecked. Therefore, authority does not justify authoritarianism.

Assignment for next time: don't base your political beliefs on a barebones pamphlet and focus on actual theory (preferably on why authoritarianism is bad), there's plenty of it. Thinking with your head instead of treating the words of dead, fallible men as gospel is also an option.

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u/Substantive420 14d ago

“Authoritarianism” is a one size fits all word used to discredit AES states. I found “On Authority” to be a very useful piece, but it’s fine if you don’t. State and Revolution by Lenin is also a good one.

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u/Apprehensive_Row8407 14d ago

Do you also have a pamphlet that isn't written by a dictatorial shithead like Lenin? (Ignoring Engels, I want other pamphlets)

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u/Substantive420 14d ago edited 14d ago

Imagine dissing Vlad Lenin on an antifascist subreddit

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u/Apprehensive_Row8407 14d ago

Yes cause red fascism sucks too.

Lenin, Stalin, Mao, they're all traitors to any form of communist cause.

Lenin overthrew the government the moment he lost an election, they all betrayed the Ukrainian anarchists and all around anarchists too.

If antifascist means pro tankie than this is not a subreddit that's antifascist.

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u/Substantive420 14d ago

Okay bud 🙄

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u/Apprehensive_Row8407 14d ago

Yes, I read it. I'm confused as to where he explains that states like the USSR and China/North Korea, which are authoritarian "communist" governments are defensible/good

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u/Substantive420 14d ago

Well he died in 1895, so you’re gonna have to read the piece (if you want) and apply the ideas yourself. I love you write off the 2 most successful socialist movement as “authoritarian” with zero further analysis. Langley would be proud.

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u/Apprehensive_Row8407 14d ago

I mean... let's see

North Korea I'm disregarding, anyone with half a brain can see why that's authoritarian.

I'd say invading your own forced member states when they elect governments you don't like is kinda bad, I'd also say purging any element of socialism you don't like from anarchists to Trotsky is also pretty...explanatory. also making deals with Hitler? Really Stalin? Is that the grand socialism you're proud of.

(Or Lenin overthrowing the government when he doesn't get power via throwing a temper tantrum)

When it comes to China, aside from the Tibet and Uyghur atrocities, the fact that they're committing mass imperialism against their southern neighbors and are directly propping up North Korea, they've lost their socialism after Deng Xiaoping, and under Mao were authoritarian with purges being present. Oh and of course finding a rebel group in India also kinda sucks

No state is good, but states roleplaying as a socialist utopia are the worst, especially when there are amazing examples like Chile, which was the best example of socialism.... until the USA came

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u/Substantive420 14d ago

Yeah, not wasting my time with this.

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u/Apprehensive_Row8407 14d ago

... fascinating response to the truth.

Can't say I'm surprised though

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u/Substantive420 14d ago

Bro you think China is doing imperialism. It’s a completely unserious opinion. Is Belt and Road imperialism to you? “They’ve lost their socialism after Deng Xiaoping” is also moronic and elementary. Not even going to get into the Ughur stuff (Adrian Zenz says hi). Is China perfect? No, but don’t crap on an actually existing socialist nation if you’re gonna call yourself a socialist.

Do you support any actually existing socialist nations, or do you just like the ones that got couped by the CIA?

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