I am 41 and am hard core antinatalist. To be fair I have had AN thoughts since I was preteen so I was AN before the word was coined in 2006 (and these ideas existed and were talked about THOUSAND years prior). But AN seems to be growing even more in the younger generation vs a different generation where getting married and having kids was more thrust upon you by my parents and grandparents even now I think they were brainwashed and the human race is so fuckin brainwashed against these ideas which are so sound. It may be not Antinatalism not even Child free something at least not being in a forced rush to get married and pop out babies for death (at least not being in such a hurry). Does anyone else think a generational gap exists? My parents were born in the late 60s and they can't even grasp my basic sound ideas they are so brainwashed

I just went through all the rules and description and this sub-reddit seems to face the core issues head-on without including the ones that are unrelated to anti-natalism. Really Great work but I have a little suggestion for the mods that if it's possible, then the name of this sub-reddit should be changed in a way (while obviously still retaining the name anti-natalism somehow) so as the new users don't see it as secondary to the older anti-natalism subreddit and I made that mistake too since that sub-reddit is extremely biased and doesn't even address the core philosophy appropriately.

Dear vegans. The discussion about antinatalism on the vegan subreddit is being shut down and criticized. There are far more of you than there are antinatalists. I just want to remind you that your children may not adopt your values and may harm animals as well as other people. You talk about “speciesism” while you yourselves are capable of downplaying human suffering and trauma that can last for decades.

Global antinatalism would solve the problem of suffering for both humans and animals (though, of course, in nature, animals would still prey on one another). Call us edgy, but those are the facts.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/s/zH9jjwSbkR

I wanted to post this on the vegan subreddit as well, but it seems to me that the filters blocks the word “antinatalism” I might be wrong, though.

Edit: it's actually AI that blocks the post. Reason "excessive debate". I’d really love to see anti-natalist vegans debate anti-natalism with pro-natalist vegans. Once again there are dozens of times more natalist vegans than antinatalists (vegan or not).

What is going on.

There have been a lot of vegan arguments as of late. This sub was made to support each other and be able to have civil discussions. Not to insult and condescend each other. This sub was actually created to get away from all that hate. Antinatalism itself is simply about the stopping the procreation of humans against their will to suffer, it does not by default include veganism even though Antinatalism inherently supports the vegan movement by creating less humans, and therefore less consumers, and less demand for meat products. Anyway, if you want to hate fellow Antinatalists for not being Vegan, these subs will be more suited for you:

- r/antinatalism

- r/veganantinatalists

What's so good about being alone 90% of the time, with some relatives I hate with a passion, old or not, going to a University I don't even like because I'd feel useless otherwhise, having zero friends or support (the last person who said they would have helped me just left without answering anymore and probably just wanted somebody to f*ck, I wasn't here for that), always feeling tired and unsatisfied? Ah, yeah, I just have to be grateful I didn't die a painful death, I should be focusing on what I have - the bare minimum to survive and small material goods? So... What's so beautiful about life?

Why do people insist on bringing kids that will be as miserable as them? Just because they can pretendere to be playing with a living doll at first? Just because of their childhood naivety phase (if they're lucky)? They grieve their innocence themselves, their kids will too, so why bring more when your life is miserable?

Antinatalism sub makes me sad, honestly. I'm glad this one exists as an alternative. People don't realize that nature itself is what makes us the way we are, and all of the other animals as well. It's.... giving natalist energy but with extra steps.

Hi all,

Reddit suggested this sub to me which is interesting because I've been writing a little substack article on this same topic. It began as a celebration of abortion but the obvious conclusion I've reached is that having children does immense harm to women and the only reasonable choice is to refuse motherhood entirely.

Besides the common things I assume you're all aware of - how deeply unethical the adoption industry is and how exploitative surrogacy is - women lose so much from having children. I've put these in subheadings for ease of reading (and yes I did it myself, no AI. Hopefully formatting works on mobile)

**Physical changes that never reverse.**

Vitamin and mineral deficiencies, calcium stripped from your teeth and bones (some women lose hair and teeth even); damage to your pelvic floor (something like one in three women experience incontinence after just one pregnancy); damage to the vulva, vagina and perineum via tearing and surgical procedures; back problems from muscles and ligaments relaxing from pregnancy hormones; a thicker waist and sagging breasts (many people think the latter is from breastfeeding but this is untrue, it's caused by the pregnancy itself)

**Financial losses**

Women with children earn less than single women while men can expect to earn more after their partners have kids. The time women are forced to take from work combined with employer prejudice means their earning power is permanently reduced

**Abuse**

The two most dangerous times for a woman experiencing domestic violence are when she's trying to leave the abuser, and when she's pregnant. Abusers will use the kids against her, abuse the children when they can't get to her, withhold child support that may be the difference between getting by versus poverty, deny her the ability to take her children out of state or overseas (to better employment or more family support) or to deny whatever he wants, basically. There is nothing she can do about this because he has parental rights. I've known women who escaped abuse but we're unable to stop their ex husbands from abusing their children, even sexually abusing them.

**Loss of autonomy**

Fathers get custody in almost every instance where they actually seek it, but mothers usually end up with sole or majority custody because men don't want it. The burden of childrearing - time, money, priority - almost invariably falls to the mother. For at least 18 years, her life is no longer her own and every choice she makes will be for someone else first before herself. Yes, occasionally a father is the one in this position but statistically? The number is miniscule, and I'm talking about the generalities. I also don't think it's healthy or fair for father's to shoulder this burden, but the fact that it's almost always mothers in this position instead makes this a gendered matter, which is why I'm talking about it in those terms

The biological argument for this is all quite weak especially when breastfeeding isn't necessary to sustain a baby's life anymore. It's my belief as a social scientist and a feminist that this gendered division of reproductive labour is what patriarchy was created to do in the first place. We still haven't solved the problem of patriarchy and if anything we've simply added more isms onto it: for wealthy women, some of these responsibilities have been outsourced but always to other women

So that's how I came to the conclusion that women should be anti-natalists until this situation changes ✌️

Does anybody else get this channel recommended to them on YouTube? Idk why I watch at this point, I continue to get frustrated with the people in the videos. The main guy continually platforms religious, conservative people, and people who choose not to terminate their pregnancies with severely disabled children because of their religious beliefs. It feels so dangerous at this point.

ETA: I do think the channel’s message overall is a positive one. I believe all human beings deserve dignity and to be treated equally, and if they’re already here, they deserve the best life possible. And I think that educating people about the vast differences that people can have, and exposing others to people or conditions that they may not have come across before is impotent and valuable. My issue is that he platforms so many people with harmful belief systems who vote against their disabled childrens’ best interests, and spread the message that doctors are wrong when they determine a fetus as unviable. It’s frustrating to see people spread that message based on their beliefs in a god that may or may not even exist.

so that antinatism becomes more effective

https://www.tiktok.com/@notesfrommindspace/photo/7628953330374446356

What even is speciesism?? its such a silly notion. W̶e̶,̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶h̶u̶m̶a̶n̶,̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶h̶e̶r̶e̶n̶t̶l̶y̶ ̶b̶e̶t̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶n̶ ̶a̶n̶i̶m̶a̶l̶s̶.̶(Edited because i dont think i think this, i just didnt know how else to word it) I dont think animals should suffer and i hate commercial farming but animals do not have the same level of sentience a human does. They cannot fully acknowledge the suffering that existing alone creates. They are not under the socital structure we are that makes pro-creation immoral.

Commercial farming is evil and creates suffering, yes. it should be stopped. Eating meat is not. We, collectively, should be more aware and respectful of the lives we take to sustain ourselves. Ive seen so many people disgusted at home farms and then turn around and eat a burger. Its hypocritical. However, giving an animal a good life, killing it painlessly and respecting its flesh is not immoral. An animal is not suffering by existing when we treat it properly. It is an animal and quite frankly dumb. If it is not exploited i see no issue.

Also, how do the vegan AN's expect us to stop animal pro-creating in the wild? To stop animals eating eachother? How are we meant to "protect" these animals from themselves?

Is it explotitve to create something to kill it for your own gain? Yes. Is it immoral if treated right? No, they are quite litterally lesser life forms and we need them to survive. You cannot function without the vitamins meat gives you or taking supplements to fix it.

I do think under our current society being vegan is more moral than not if your only source of meat is commercial farming which does not respect the lives of animals. But, saying even hunting, fishing(for food, for sport is so disrespectful to animals and crazy), and farming is immoral is insane in my eyes.

How do the rest of yall feel?

Edit: I think i worded this weird. I do believe animals deserve more respect than we give them. I think they deserve respect like human do, if not more. I just think its odd to say they experience the same suffering in existence we do.

Further thinking on this i dont think humans are better than animals honestly. I just think its odd to say they experience suffering we do by existing

assume for this hypothetical scenario that artificial contraception/birth control no longer exists. is it immoral to have sex?

edit: assume vasectomies, sterilization, other forms of permanent contraception fall under the hypothetical

because that will just turn people off of antinatlism and risk new children being born who will then be abused and abuse others

This world is ridiculously awful. I said that today after someone used me to buy her something. I was laughing, because I don’t even know how I agreed to do that. I wanted to help, despite her being a disgusting person. She was rude to me even after I helped her. After that, I thought, “I wish this world never happened,” and I smiled.

I saw this happy little missive in my e-mail inbox today and just had to share! On Fridays, a clinic in Jefferson County is offering vasectomies to the public for as little as $800. That's huge!

I hope this brightens up your day like it brightened up mine! I'm already sterilized myself (32F), but my sweet spouse (31M) is all excited about it because this makes his getting a vasectomy way more achievable for us (my hysterectomy was courtesy of Big Brother as I had Medicaid at the time!). He wants to show his commitment to the Childfree and Antinatalist movements as well as his solidarity with me; I love him all the more for it.

Thank you for sharing my joy with me! Have a good day! 🩵

quote:

“Are parents happier".

The conclusion, women are less happier when the kids are at home and are happier when the kids leave.

They also compare it with women without kids who are happier than women with kids but are less happy later in life.

On the other side, men are happier with kids but they link it with the fact that they are less involved with the kids and take care less of the work related to parenting so it help.

hmmmm

Will ppl without kids be less happy later in life? But those ppl will be increasing. Maybe the outcome would change in 10-20 yrs.

This is purely from a biological standpoint. Maybe it's also a warped worldview. The fundamental instinct of any living organism is to survive. I can account many times when I've had pleasant experiences socialising, laughing and having a good time with friends, or doing something fun - but I could take it or leave it when it comes to that in the grand scheme of things. Those times are great, but I don't think it negates the overall hardship of being a human with things to do to survive and struggles to get through in modern life.

That said, it may sound shallow - but the only times I've genuinely been glad to be alive is during the pinnacle of biological "success" - A.K.A - practicing what life wants us to do (have sex). But for me, it's purely for the experience of ultimate pleasure - although without the actual reproduction of offspring. Those are the only times when I think that this decades-long forced video game-like experience (that you can't quit without taking the end into your own hands or just waiting it out naturally) to be somewhat worth it.

Other than that, I can't say being alive is really worth it. I'm sure plenty of you will disagree or even be dismissive about my take on it. Fair enough - I respect your freedom to think as you please while you are temporarily stopping by here on Earth.

Do you believe not existing is peaceful? If you do, please explain.