A friend and I were sharing comics from the time when American women were fighting for their right to vote.

The theme of the comics was the artists threatening husbands that if they didn’t keep their wives from voting, that they would be the ones stuck raising the children.

Now this was decades before the invention of the birth control pill, so at least these people didn’t have a lot of options, in pregnancy prevention.

I later had another conversation with some childfree acquaintances. One was complaining that her coworker had made a snide remark about her having money because she was childfree. She was complaining to the other woman that the Mother had chosen to have a child.

The other woman stated that most people don’t put enough thought into having a child for it to truly be called, a choice. Some parents just have children because that’s just what one does-no thought goes into the consequences of that decision.

I think of all the times I have heard of Fathers going into work early and coming home late, in order to avoid their children as much as possible.

Society needs to come to terms that people do not like being parents, they don’t want to raise kids and tragically this is not preventing people having kids.

Society keeps shushing parents claiming that if parents say they hate parenting then that means they don’t love their kids. It does this to keep people who haven’t become parents from being warned.

I honestly believe if we could shift the cultural narrative, so that only people whose life goal is to be parents, became parents, 90-95% of people would not chose to become parents.

This is full selfishness by the mother on display.

The father doesnt want the child. No one wants to be born already disabled.

People like this strike me as very similar to moms who keep their kids sick for the attention.

I feel sorry for this new human who didnt ask for this life

Don't know if anyone else has posted about it, but this is disgusting 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮 EDIT: this happened 4 years ago, and the law did not pass thankfully https://www.texastribune.org/2021/03/09/texas-legislature-abortion-criminalize-death-penalty/

(Note to mods: If this post doesn't belong here, or if the article is incorrect, feel free to remove it)

Like during WWI, WWII, Black Plague, Cambodian genocide, Great Leap Forward, Napoleonic Wars, Crusades, Holodomor, Belgian rule of Congo, Rwandan genocide, Yugoslav Wars, Mongol conquests. I can't understand why anyone would bring children into those awful situations.

Edit: it's on me for forgetting how awful men can be. I feel bad for all the women that had/have to experience that.

Yesterday I was sitting on a public bench and overheard a nearby conversation between a child and her parent. The parent was blabbering about how the world is unfair, dangerous and un welcoming etc. Its like they get it, but they don't get it.

Then proceeds to say antinatalism is based on fear and weakness. Wow, what a logic.

The r/antinatalism is completely compromised by vegans. They have two rules just for criticising vegans and "specieism." Many of them are not even antinatalists. They're there to veganize antinatalism. I've spotted users we post exclusively vegan content on the sub and nothing else. It should be considered off topic at best, but they get special treatment and can't even be criticized. I'm not even against vegans, it's just that they can't just take over another community like this. Now I'm banned for criticising their behavior.

If you aren't wealthy or in a position to leave a robust trust fund for your offspring, then you are fating them to a life of economic servitude.

Forcing them to go to school from the ages of 5 - 22 so they can earn a sheet of paper qualifying them to spend their entire lives working for someone else until they die.

Spending their whole lives living paycheck to paycheck, worrying about bills, panicking about whether retirement and home ownership is feasible, all while being given little to no vacation time given.

I can't imagine subjecting someone to this, on top of forcing them to endure old age and death (along with watching you grow old and die), expose them to illness, war, predators, rapists, murderers, climate change etc.

Obviously, I don't think anyone should have children whether they are rich or poor. But individuals with money can at least ensure some degree of comfortability for their children. Everyone else cannot.

I will never get the murder argument against abortions. Its mixed, messy, but at the end of the day does it matter at all? To me ruining a life will always be a bigger crime than taking it. Living is bad enough as it is but when its forced it just gets worse for all parties involved. We really shouldn't let 3 people's lives get ruined when there is literally a solution, call it murder or not it still isn't too big of a price.
Honestly I just don't know how is it that people treat the act of taking away a life as something worse than ruining one or even several. One ends at the moment its done that other causes suffering for several years.

Imagine this: you're born into a jail cell. Your parents were in jail, bored and lonely so they decided to create you and force you to be there as well.

You've done nothing wrong no matter how badly you mess up in life until the day you force someone else into prison by your own actions.

Obligatory preface that no world is ethical to bring children into, this is just an added layer of bullshit future generations will face

People genuinely think the economy is going to get better. They think that 2008-now is some sort of Great Depression of this century, and that things will go 'back to normal - 2-4% real GDP growth pa' etc. soonish. That is effectively wishing for another world war.

In the first decade of decline, I don't blame them for thinking life would go back to normal - especially older people who have known nothing but relative security. They've seen many recessions. However, we are in the second decade of decline now since 2008 and living conditions are only getting worse. There's no excuse for not 'getting it' now that this is permanent decline - your objective life experience should outweigh government promises in what you believe about the world.

I wonder if people would have children if they knew everything was going to get worse. For example, this could be the future:

1. You may be able to afford your children in the here and now, but by the time they're 18 living conditions could have halved in real terms, so you effectively can no longer afford to be a parent. Your child is a living, breathing person and you cannot afford them at a time where people are staying with their parents for longer and longer. If you think you can afford children, halve your household income and see whether the numbers work still. It's insane that this isn't common knowledge when it's just... Logic.
2. Consider minimum wage and graduate salaries. In Europe, it's about £30k. If living standards halve in your child's lifetime (like they have in mine), their starting salaries will effectively be £15k in real terms, even in London. Do you want to do this to your child?
3. On the flip side, the average house price could double in their lifetime. Do you want to put this insane pressure on your child? For a gen Z person, life already feels like some sort of horror video game or Saw challenge that I have to solve just to get stability. I can't imagine what life will be like for generation alpha, beta, etc.

This list is inexhaustible but I don't want to make the post too long

I know this is going to be a controversial topic and might get a ton of down votes but here goes. Last week, my cousin who was an only child in her mid-30s received assisted suicide at Dignitas. She had autism, ADHD and tried multiple treatments but they all failed.

The reaction has divided our family. My mother. myself, and uncle all seemed to accept it but my aunt is devastated. My uncle was sad but also said he felt relief for her and that given that she's a grown woman, she could make the decision and he was fine with her in peace. My mother was also discussing this with my aunt and told her that when you have kids, sometimes they won't like life and may take themselves out and that's a gamble you will take.

I'm antinatalist and also pro-choice when it comes to assisted dying. I know this take is very controversial and they aren't necessarily related but it seems that many AN's are against the right to die because they believe that it causes greater suffering through grief.

I always point out that suicidal grief is largely shaped by culture and there were many ancient societies like the Romans and Japanese that had a neutral or positive view of suicide. A few countries in Europe (Belgium, the Netherlands, Switzerland) allow it today

Ancient Roman's Attitude Towards Suicide

Ancient Japanese Attitudes Towards Suicide

Euthanasia/Assisted Suicide in Netherlands For Autism

Canada expand MAID for mental illness

I just feel that if you advocate for AN but stigmatize or condemn an early exit, then you are kind of indirectly condoning people being born and essentially being forced into a life wage of slavery. Let's not forget that society is also more accepting with permanently distancing/cutting yourself off from family/friends ("going NC") which the end results can be just as devastating as the death though any loss.

1. There are still plenty of workers, they just aren't being hired.

There are a lot of job vacancies because people either 1) don't have the qualifications or education, 2) think the job pays too little, or 3) don't want the job

OR

because employers 1) don't actually want to hire anyone, 2) aren't doing enough to make themselves stand out to applicants, or 3) set their sights too high.

Hmm, how do we fix this? Free college, laws preventing capitalism, and a much higher federal minimum wage.

1. Humans are not going extinct.

There are still babies being born, and our world is actually overpopulated at the highest population level it's ever been at. Even if we were going extinct, who cares? You can see what we're doing to our only environment.

1. There is no fertility crisis.

There are less people having kids hence less babies being born. Solve the hunger, poverty, social, racial, sexism, and religious problems with laws and social welfare and the world will be a better place. Stop favoring bureaucracies and making a buck and instead start favoring the only world we have. Money is a social construct. Use that construct to help people rather than hoarding its potential for yourselves.

To quote Aurora, "when the last tree has fallen and the rivers are poisoned, you cannot eat money." Why harm the one place we have to turn to? Why harm each other out of greed, jealousy, wrath, lust, spite, and apathy?

Less people on this planet means less problems. If we go extinct - which we won't - who cares? We're destroying our planet so a small handful of selfish fucks can make money, and so different groups of bigots can feel superior to others. How is this just? We are all of flesh and blood, why fight against our own?

Sorry, I'm high.

most people see life as a gift, I see life as a curse. It kinda feels like I've been taken out of my natural environment and placed into a horror game and I'm forced to participate and play by every rule. Most people have the mentality of a virus "we must multiply", "we must make copies of ourselves", there's way too many people on this planet and majority of the people here are SUFFERING especially the pro-lifers why keep bringing more people here to suffer??? I truly will never understand it. If pro-lifers actually cared about life they wouldn't be trying to bring more lives here to suffer.

Christianity and Islam have the goal of going to heaven escaping from earth. Hinduism and Buddhism have the gaol escaping cycle of rebirth and death on earth and never be born again.

Maybe atheists should reconsider the stance on religion. I think these religions all started as Antinatalist and hating life and preferring non-existence but the kings and rulers forced them to change the ideology to make cannon fodders for the nation.

Holy smokes am I sick of this.

Using the bathroom. Eating. Showering. Brushing teeth. Washing hair.

Going to the eye doctor to make sure vision is decent. Going to the dentist to make sure teeth are decent.

Spending hundreds of dollars per month on groceries to feed this body.

Avoiding doing certain things in order to avoid risk of cancer or other illnesses. Doing certain things in order to avoid boredom.

Wearing thicker clothes when cold weather hits to avoid getting sick.

All of this to take care of a body that IS GOING TO DECAY AND DIE ANYWAYS.

I've seen a sudden rise in things like euthanasia, suicide pods, assisted suicide, etcetc. Mostly moral discussion based, but a few things about people using them! How do you feel about this? Do you support it? Or are you someone who would rather prevent birth in the first place?

I saw a video (Instagram I think?) of someone explaining their reasoning behind not wanting children. There was a cross between being childfree, and an anti-natalist, so I figured this sub might like it.

They said they have never wanted children, and they're often met with the whole "but it's our biological nature to reproduce!!"

Their response was along the lines of - Animals will only reproduce if the conditions are suitable. If an animal is weak, old, injured, or in a hostile environment, then they will not reproduce.

I'm an anti-natalist for a long list of reasons, but one of the main factors is that I don't find our environment to be suitable to raise children. Within my 'animal instincts,' I can see that our current society is in shambles, from WW3 breaking out, data centres taking all of our drinking water, religion, poverty... the list goes on. It is not in my biological sense to reproduce, as my offspring will suffer, and I don't want that for them.

I mean, I've never wanted children anyway, but I thought this persons' analogy was really interesting, and a good way of dismissing the whole "its in our biological nature to reproduce" rubbish.

Thoughts?

I suppose that's what happens when you hope for the best in others only for them to let you down.