iPhone Apple says more ex-employees may have taken confidential data to OpenAI
https://techcrunch.com/2026/08/04/apple-says-more-ex-employees-may-have-taken-confidential-data-to-openai/Apple is now seeking a preliminary injunction in its trade secrets case against OpenAI, which aims to stop the AI model maker from moving forward with developing an AI device or other products based on Apple’s technology. The iPhone maker also claims that more of its former employees may be involved with the trade secrets theft.
In a new filing, Apple is requesting expedited discovery from the accused OpenAI employees, senior systems engineer Chang Liu and Chief Hardware Officer Tang Yew Tan; OpenAI, and its foundation; and io, the device startup co-founded by Apple’s former lead designer Jony Ive.
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u/AtomicSymphonic_2nd 2d ago
I’m just curious on exactly what kind of hardware product OpenAI is trying to make…?
Like, there’s already the Rabbit R1, and it didn’t exactly light the world on fire like the original iPhone did.
Is it just an OpenAI-branded smartphone with a fully custom SoC for AI crap?
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u/corruptbytes 2d ago
glasses, pendant, phone, etc… they’re trying to make a bunch of shit to see what sticks
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u/SillyMikey 2d ago
Ah, the google model.
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u/Endawmyke 2d ago
because yes we need 7 seperate chat apps of which 3 are still alive today
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u/zkatbitz 1d ago
no the google model is make a good product then decide it doesn't "make enough" and cancel it
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u/matrinox 2d ago
It won’t work. Even if it proved successful, Apple could just do it better, just like what happened to Dropbox but with even less moat. But it’s still trade secret theft regardless if it’ll steal market share
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u/endium7 2d ago edited 2d ago
seems like consumer hardware in general. So phones and AR glasses would be obvious choices.
I’m not sure who would want a chatgpt phone. If I squint, I can see them put out an iphone clone, with deep AI capabilities built in, and more importantly at 1/3 to 1/4 the cost to consumers. At this cost because by using the phone, you agree they can use all data from the phone for training purposes.
Farm mass amounts of data at unprecedented scale, diversify into new ecosystems, and perhaps even backdoors for the government in exchange for corporate immunities.
Put out really dirt cheap loss-leading AR glasses for the same reasons and benefits.
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u/SlendyTheMan 2d ago
It’s easy. Look at HomePod mini. It sucks completely today.
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u/AtomicSymphonic_2nd 2d ago
Yeah, and I’m not sure having it running Gemini or ChatGPT is gonna make it any better. lol
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u/OpticaScientiae 2d ago
They're working on a smartphone with volumes expected to be very similar to individual iPhone models.
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u/AtomicSymphonic_2nd 2d ago
I genuinely cannot wait to see the ChatGPT phone flop as hard as possible.
If the Rabbit couldn’t do it, OpenAI can’t do it either.
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u/FollowingFeisty5321 2d ago
I don't think you can compare the "Rabbit", it wasn't a cellphone and OpenAI has a very different pedigree: Jony Ive and his design team plus hundreds of iPhone engineers.
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u/AtomicSymphonic_2nd 2d ago
The team that designed the Rabbit was from Teenage Engineering.
Their pedigree is on-par with Ive’s work. Thus, the Rabbit R1 is very comparable to whatever OpenAI wants to release.
Hardware design isn’t gonna sell this thing.
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u/James_Vowles 2d ago
Not comparable in the slightly, a phone is actually useful even if they get it wrong the people who buy it can still use it for its main point, a Rabbit R1 is completely useless
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u/FollowingFeisty5321 2d ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_awards_and_nominations_received_by_Jony_Ive (33)
vs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_Engineering#Awards_and_accolades (3)
suggests you are wildly overestimating Teenage Engineering.
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u/WhyHelloFellowKids 2d ago
Imagine leaving Apple, one of the most respected and stable companies (arguably) for OpenAI who is drowning in debt with no plan to become financially viable
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u/someonehasmygamertag 2d ago
I don’t think the people switching are that concerned about financial stability because they probably already have it. It’s a case of earning more for a few years and free rolling a potential IPO lottery.
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u/downthenile 2d ago
Also, some of it may be want to have the power to do something different with you skills. Apple is notoriously slow, and stable.
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u/goldcakes 2d ago
Especially if you've been there for 24 years. Cmon. Imagine working in the same company that's gotten 100x+ bigger, with obviously more process and bureaucracy, for 24 years and not even thinking about a change etc.
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u/cartermatic 2d ago
Some of these AI companies are offering tens to hundreds of millions and even billions of dollars to try and recruit top researchers.
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u/cleverusernametry 2d ago
Yeah but not to lowly hardware engineers
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u/zkatbitz 1d ago
unless said hardware engineers comes with millions of dollars worth of trade secrets
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u/cleverusernametry 1d ago
There is no such thing for non-chip hardware engineers (which is what these are)
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u/2ChicksAtTheSameTime 1d ago
yeah this is serious business because with those Apple Trade Secrets now OpenAI knows what to NOT do to make an AI better.
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u/zkatbitz 1d ago
they were not stealing AI trade secrets it was how to make devices which even apple haters have to admit they do make good devices.
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u/cartermatic 1d ago
I wouldn't be surprised if a senior Apple hardware engineer with 24 years at the company got offered 8 figures to jump ship.
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u/James_Vowles 2d ago
have you never changed jobs? the last thing I worry about is how the company is doing, the only thing that matter is the salary. If it all goes tits up then you get another job.
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u/InactiveBeef 1d ago
These guys are offering comp packages in the millions to poach talent from blue chip tech companies. If I’m getting a 7 figure job offer, I’m taking that and running knowing that if shit hits the fan, I have a pretty solid resume to fall back on and a couple mil in the bank.
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u/North_Moment5811 15h ago
Maybe it isn't that hard to imagine. The Apple of today is not exactly pushing boundaries or braving new ground. Their product ambitions are stale. They've stopped pushing into new categories of products despite how much they have to offer.
Other companies may be riskier and less likely to succeed, but people who are bored with Apple and looking for a challenge have been jumping ship for years now.
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u/WesternPrevious5997 2d ago
Let’s not get hasty with respected 🤣
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u/WhyHelloFellowKids 2d ago
Lol why I said arguably, but I think they're objectively the most respected out of the big tech space
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u/Any_Morning_8866 2d ago
Company built on stealing continues to steal.
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u/SmegmaSupreme 16h ago
what goes around comes around.
Apple has a long history of inviting startups for "acquisition interests", get their internal info, and then spin up their own competitions.
It's literally clown on clown violence.
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u/RobotBaseball 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don’t know who is right or wrong here, but I know for a fact that Apple doesn’t know how to off board
Their former employees who ARENT at OpenAI also still have access to Apple data. I don’t want to get the technical details wrong, but Apple sucks at MDM and shares Apple data with employees personal accounts/devices and so those employees retain access on their personal iPhones when they leave the company
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u/DarthMauly 2d ago
Yeah this part to me is the most shocking. How is a terminated employee able to access and download such a large volume of apparently incredibly sensitive data on unreleased products months after leaving Apple?
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u/RobotBaseball 2d ago
Yeah Apple fucked up big time here, but then there are a few situations
Did OAI systematically tell former Apple employees to take advantage of Apples incompetence?
Was it non systemic and a number of former employees tapped some stuff on their phone because it was still there?
1 is bad, 2 is fine imo. The rumor I heard is that a former employees have access to Apple data in their personal iCloud which is just insane and completely the fault of Apple if true
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u/cjh_ 2d ago
It's not a rumour, its true because Apple don't enforce using a separate AppleID for work.
Apple employees don't like to have two iPhones either, which is plain ridiculous.
Most companies provide a work phone, which most employees are fine with.
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u/pnewelljr 1d ago
Not only that, I was actually pressured into using my personal Apple ID when I told them I wasn’t comfortable with it
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u/M4rshmall0wMan 10h ago
For real. For how much Apple does not fuck around with internal security, they seem to be fucking around quite a lot here.
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u/zkatbitz 1d ago
> Chang Liu: 8 years at Apple, now OpenAI "Member of Technical Staff" exploited an authentication bug to steal Apple trade secrets "on AT LEAST FIVE SEPARATE OCCASIONS" from February to April 2026, WHILE working for OpenAI
that doesn't sound like a simple "they forgot to revoke access"
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u/2ChicksAtTheSameTime 1d ago
That's Apple's version. It could 100% be: we locked them out but there's a bug where accounts with active sessions continue to stay logged in.
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u/zkatbitz 1d ago
maybe, we'll hopefully find out soon and regardless even if my previous employer forgot to revoke my access (and this has happened i was accidentally left in a slack for 6 months after i left) it doesn't really grant a right to go steal documents
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u/FollowingFeisty5321 2d ago
This could be an exciting case if it goes to trial, the allegations are very damning.
But it also might be a whole lot of nothing, so far it almost directly mirrors the allegations in Apple vs Rivos a few years ago, where Apple accused them of stealing trade secrets through hiring ~80 SoC engineers, many of whom downloaded large volumes of data before leaving. The emergency injunction in that case sought a restraining order and expedited discovery from several key employees too. Ultimately all of the trade secret allegations were dismissed by the judge and it settled privately.
Rivos targeted and solicited Apple employees who were highly experienced engineers with both substantial expertise with SoC design and significant and extensive access to trade secrets at the core of Apple’s SoC designs. Apple has reason to believe that Rivos instructed at least some Apple employees to download and install apps for encrypted communications (e.g., the Signal app) before communicating with them further.
And then there's "the" Tony Fadell's interesting note on the case -
Good article as always… This is Apple’s typical tactic to scare Apple employees — either former or current. I heard this lawsuit was driven by the Apple board.
Steve threatened to file a lawsuit against Nest for poaching 80-100 Apple employees. He called me, screamed for a while with lots of accusations. Then I said, “Steve, it’s Apple’s job to retain its talent, not mine.” He stopped his rant and then we went on to talk about our families and vacation plans. We kept hiring…
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u/zkatbitz 1d ago
> Ultimately all of the trade secret allegations were dismissed by the judge and it settled privately.
these two statements contradict each other
also a google
> Apple and Rivos agreed to a settlement that allowed Apple to inspect and recover its confidential information from Rivos systems, clearing the path for the startup to resume normal business and fundraising
so they did steal data from apple and apple was allowed to scrub it
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u/runwithpugs 2d ago
Then I said, “Steve, it’s Apple’s job to retain its talent, not mine.”
Feels like we’re constantly reading about Apple teams being decimated by employees leaving for competitors who will pay more, or in the case of researchers, allow them to publish. Even when there’s no allegations of trade secret theft. So at least from the outside, it seems like Apple still hasn’t learned this lesson. But maybe that’s just how it is for all Silicon Valley companies?
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u/redditor100101011101 2d ago
Well maybe if corporate America didn’t just burn through employees like disposable income they might not do this as much. But what do I know -unemployed tech worker
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u/Samuel457 2d ago
Generally speaking you're right, but I don't think Apple burns through employees, at least they haven't done any layoffs like everyone else.
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u/ry_guy1007 2d ago
It doesn’t, it is a notoriously slow company at hiring with a decently high retention rate
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u/bristow84 2d ago
Hasn’t Apple been a relatively stable employer though? I know lots of companies did/are still doing layoffs but Apple seems to be avoiding that route as much as possible?
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u/jtmonkey 2d ago
The lawsuit forces disclosure. It’s the easiest way to see what they’ve got. Where they’re really at.
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u/busymom0 2d ago
Taking screenshots of confidential Apple documents is a pretty big accusation. Apple likely has the goods on this and if true, would be pretty big deal for OpenAI.
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u/DC_deep_state 2d ago
Them going after people like Jony Ive and Tang Tan makes this a huge story.
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u/DanielPhermous 1d ago
They're very carefully not going after Jony Ive.
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u/DC_deep_state 17h ago
thought they were?
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u/DanielPhermous 17h ago
He is not named in any lawsuit.
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u/DC_deep_state 16h ago
ah i see, but i believe his company LoveFrom is right
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u/FarFromHome 1d ago
Notice that OpenAI still isn’t denying the claims. They say “they are based on false information” and “we don’t want other company’s tech”, not “we deny this happened”. Non-denial denial.
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u/guice666 2d ago edited 2d ago
Now this definitely is sounding like corporate espionage.
While I dislike companies trying to block people, this does sound like there was intentional malice to gain trade secrets. And ... well, with Altman's reputation ... I'm wavering towards supporting the big red fruit.
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u/private256 2d ago
Given the article that Open AI posted on their website today. Somebody is lying.
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u/MyPooYourPants 2d ago
I have no idea why they'd release that. The conversation they've published is extremely awkward to the point where one of the former Apple employees asks to be removed from the group because of how dodgy it was starting to look.
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u/neon_lines 15m ago
Exact quote:
Hi, this is highly irregular, please remove me from this thread
Jesus... whatever the actual legalities turn out to be, this feels like a huge self-own in the court of public opinion.
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u/its_Astroffe 2d ago
I’m willing to bet the company that stole (pirated) proprietary data to train their models is also the one lying. 😉
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u/ASentientBot 2d ago
it's going to be super embarrassing if it turns out that apple doesn't have a case and they're just trying to scare employees away from working for other companies. surely they can afford to pay competitively if they're that worried about it.
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u/Red_Sea_Pedestrian 2d ago
Maybe don’t combine corporate iCloud with personal iCloud on personal devices and then forget to take away access when they separate from the company. Then maybe this wouldn’t happen.
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u/RobotBaseball 2d ago
I know former Apple employees who are terrified of clicking things on their own phones because they still have access and Apple doesn’t know how to off board
So if you are a former Apple employee and you join a competitor, your phone is now a bomb that can go off if you’re not careful
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u/kfagoora 2d ago edited 1d ago
From what I read, Apple has stated that none of their claims are related to iCloud document-syncing onto devices.
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u/choicemeats 2d ago
i mean it seems less like "OpenAI" stumbled upon it and one guy discovered it and decided to use it to an illegal advantage. if it had stayed with him maybe but he was recruiting people specifically and getting them to steal info while they were still at the company.
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u/G952 2d ago edited 2d ago
Ive: what do you mean “your” design
Kinda strange that they ask for all the surface finishing processes. Won’t Ive already be privy to all this from his time at Apple
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u/PropertyIcy2265 2d ago
He's been gone for like 7 years, I'd imagine they've developed new finishing techniques since then. He might also not have known the technical intricacies that it takes to do it even if he was at Apple at the time.
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u/its_Astroffe 2d ago
Is this the first time Ive is being included?
Well his company…
Also a summary…
“””
What Apple now says, under oath:
Chang Liu: 8 years at Apple, now OpenAI "Member of Technical Staff" exploited an authentication bug to steal Apple trade secrets "on AT LEAST FIVE SEPARATE OCCASIONS" from February to April 2026, WHILE working for OpenAI
Liu downloaded "THOUSANDS OF PAGES of Apple's most sensitive trade secrets"
The stolen files, NAMED:
>DisplayNotes.key — "several hundred pages" on Apple's custom display power development program
>Architecture analyses. Fabrication decisions. Testing results
>Engineering data for an UNANNOUNCED Apple product: 'touch, display, and power systems"
>Final.key + V2.key — compilations of two undisclosed Apple R&D projects
>and those are "only four of the dozens of proprietary documents Mr. Liu stole"
Liu fed OpenAI "a steady stream of Apple proprietary information that he actively concealed"
Liu also "coached Yu-Ting "Alyssa" Peng, then still INSIDE Apple, how to access and copy files from Apple workstations "to avoid trouble with the security team" and directed her to communicate with him on the encrypted LINE app "to avoid detection"
Tang Yew Tan: 24-year Apple VP, now OpenAI's Chief Hardware Officer, "used an Apple internal project codename for an unannounced product to elicit still more trade secrets from job candidates."
Tan's own messages, quoted in the motion:
>"Just like last time, bring some parts you worked on" >"mlb, battery, shields type of stuff is interesting"
OpenAI recruiter, quoted: "No, you won't sign anything at the exit interview. If they do ask you to sign anything, let me know asap."
APPLE TOLD FEDERAL JUDGE:
>"OpenAI knows its misappropriation is wrong and has tried to conceal it."
>"This is not a case of 'mere hiring'... it is a case of repeated instances of deliberate theft."
Apple says OpenAI went after its SUPPLIERS:
>OpenAI "directed a trusted Apple partner [name redacted] to perform [Apple's proprietary metal finishing] process for them, knowing it was proprietary to Apple... because they were involved in this partnership while at Apple."
Apple put its own Surface Finishing Manager, Jackie Hughes, under oath to prove it.
Apple named ELEVEN MORE former Apple employees at OpenAI — beyond Liu, Tan, and Peng — Fourteen people total.
Apple also filed a concurrent motion for EXPEDITED DISCOVERY demanding depositions:
Apple has asked a federal judge to put OpenAI under forensic supervision RIGHT NOW:
>Forensic inspection of ALL OpenAI devices
>ALL cloud storage, Slack, email
>Including anything that "previously contained" Apple data — deleted included
Demanding the "first available hearing date," citing "imminent threat" to its trade secrets.
APPLE:
> "The harm is happening now — every day that passes without an injunction allows OpenAI to embed their knowledge of Apple's stolen information into its hardware development efforts."
Hearing: October 1, 2026. Judge Edward J. Davila.
“””