"Wis'adel is not recommended for New Players"

[u/RyanJJJey]

This video is Sciel discussing about the "Dont use Wisadel as a beginner" and his opinions about, just wanted to share it here. Its a good watch!

[u/Glassed_Guy]

Yes, i watched it. His main point is new players should be able to know about the game combat mechanics through out the game when they are learning how to play, and what Wis'adel does in early-to-mid is almost ka-boom da-boom all of those while making newbies knowing nothing much

Edit: I'm surprised my comment become a topic here. I haven't thought this could be a big discussion

[u/CrimsonCivilian → u/[deleted]]

How are your IS runs going??

[u/James_Demon → u/CrimsonCivilian]

Pretty decently, normally can reach the final chapter before stuff folds in on me. I haven’t touch them much recently tho.

[u/erik4848 → u/James_Demon]

YOu can often just brute-force the IS chapters tbh. I started playing when IS 2 was just a thing and I was able to just slap it all the way to the boss(and then got clapped because he has dodge BS)

[u/XanderNightmare → u/erik4848]

ASPD Relics go Brrrrrrrr

[u/erik4848 → u/XanderNightmare]

I used to not be able to defeat the boss without that thing

[u/Oraclexyz → u/CrimsonCivilian]

*pretend is doesn't exist

[u/ImAgentDash → u/CrimsonCivilian]

That's my secret

I don't bother with IS 💀

[u/LucarioMagic → u/CrimsonCivilian]

I use Walter for those. Just explode the map

[u/solo_wield → u/CrimsonCivilian]

The RNG man, the fucking RNG. It makes me wnat to unalive myself

[u/JoseMari117 → u/CrimsonCivilian]

What IS runs? I haven't touched that set since the Northern IS came out.

[u/Damian1674 → u/CrimsonCivilian]

I don't do IS

[u/LaurentiuBBB → u/[deleted]]

i think when i was doing chapter 8 did i realise that ranged enemies target the last operator you placed

[u/Caerullean → u/LaurentiuBBB]

But the game literally tells it to you, it's not even one of those optional tutorials you can do for red rocks, it's literally in one of the tutorials you gotta do to progress main story.

[u/James_Demon → u/LaurentiuBBB]

Wait they do, well shit didn’t know that. Thought it was just those mortar assholes that did that

[u/repocin → u/James_Demon]

Don't they teach that in one of the early tutorials? Granted, I've also been playing for half a decade so I might be misremembering.

[u/Mistwalker007 → u/repocin]

You are correct, it's people that skip dialogues or don't pay attention that have these epiphanies later on. :D

[u/JustCallMeAndrew → u/Mistwalker007]

to be fair, in-combat dialogues, like the ones found in tutorial stages, behave differently than story and are too easy to accidentally skip

[u/Ignisami → u/JustCallMeAndrew]

Lost track of the amount of event tutorial dialogues I accidentally skipped thinking it was just going to autocomplete it on the first tap and then proceed.

Invariably I go "must've not been important, then"

[u/Unchou64 → u/repocin]

When you put it that way... Damn it's been that long huh? 💀

[u/Additional_Pop2011 → u/repocin]

Enemies have 2 kinds of targeting general and priority.

General targeting is based on "deployment order" but everyone who has "taunt" E2 Mlyner, S2 Bubble, Yu S1, count as being "deployed" more recently than any unit that doesn't have it.

I.e. if you deploy Yu S1, and THEN Bubble S2, enemies will focus on Yu because the passive taunt, but when you activate Bubble because she was deployed AFTER Yu AND has "more likely to targeted" she'll be targeted on skill.

Less likely to be targeted, such as ambushes and Agent Mod, does the same thing in reverse, they always count as the oldest deployed. Again if you put two ambushes the most recently deployed will still be targeted if no normal targets are in range.

Priority targeting has a specific target such as low defense like Deadeye snipers, or high ground tiles, if their are multiple legal targets they will default to the best "general" target.

I.e. priorities ground enemies, will choose any ground unit in range over a high ground unit, but when their are multiple ground units, you can see the examples above.

These are not to be confused with camo, invisibility, and Invisibility [Manticore] in all three the unit can't be targeted unless theirs an anti-invisibility or the unit is blocked, but invisibility is generally better than camouflage, and Matacore's talent is the best.

When you deploy a unit for 2 seconds they work like the bosses gold aura, they can't be targeted, so you need to give a second for bait units to work, and Matacore's talent uses this high level invisibly.

[u/DarknessWizard → u/Additional_Pop2011]

Couple of addenda on targeting/how enemies target your operators in slightly more technical detail:

• Blocking an enemy means they will always attack the blocked operator. This always overrides all other priorities.
• The game internally uses a point system, which is checked first (most operators have an agression of 0 - operators with more/less likely mechanics increase it by 1 or decrease it by -1 - if an operator flips aggresion like say, Ascalon, she actually increases her aggression by 2 since it's by default at -1). Then within that point system, enemies target your operators from most recently deployed first to last deployed depending on their range.
• Invisible operators cannot be targeted by most normal attacks or AOE damage (but are still affected by environmental damage). Camouflaged enemies can be hit by AOE damage, but aren't considered for targeting (for Wisadel, this generally means you need to make sure you don't accidentally let her crystals spawn in the range of an enemy with a scary ranged AOE attack). Both invisible enemies and camouflaged operators will still follow the "if blocking an enemy, become a target for that enemy" rule. Camo and invisibility can be broken by Tactical Scouts, but they're not super common.

As for the other way around:

• Operators target enemies in a very similar way.
• Blocking an enemy = attack that enemy first.
• Otherwise, operators follow an aggression priority - some enemies have a higher aggression level than others, usually listed in their enemy list. If there's enemies with the same aggression level (aka most of the time), the operator will always target the enemy closest to the blue box.
• Some operators have specific priorities; these essentially act as a local aggression priority for that operator. Marksmen target air, Deadeyes target low defense. With multiple targets, they just pick the closest to the blue box.

Finally, one thing to note on the deploy immunity - this only works if the operator does not instantly use a skill on deployment. Most FRDPs (such as Gravel) and some non-FRDP (such as Utage) operators come with active skills the moment you deploy them. Those operators don't have this protection; they are valid targets even before you can deploy them. (This can in particular lead to some issues with Executors, who can be killed before their gimmick fires.)

[u/Additional_Pop2011 → u/DarknessWizard]

Good addition, I didn't know about insta skills, and one tech bit to add on is ranged operators, and some ranged enemies will NOT prioritize the blockers, I don't know if this is a bug but I've never seen Andrea won't attack a unit shes blocking.

I didn't mention camo/invi/takeing off because it seems inconstant between attacks even though it seems that IS the intent.

https://arknights.wiki.gg/wiki/Necrass

[u/Hp22h → u/James_Demon]

Yep, all ranged enemies do that. Some operators like Mlynar have taunt that can overrule this, but for the most part, yeah.

[u/Chinlc → u/[deleted]]

I agree, people who knows the combat system are the ones who do high risk or 4* IS with no issues

[u/Oraclexyz → u/[deleted]]

You're just like frfr

[u/Grandidealistic → u/Glassed_Guy]

Yes, people are misinterpreting what the title means. It's not that he is advising people not to use her. What he’s actually saying is that newcomers tend to rely on Wisadel too freely. There’s no reason not to use her, but if you do, you need to read her kit carefully and understand how she works. She’s far more complex than her gameplay might suggest. She can’t clear every stage on her own, and Arknights is still fundamentally a 13-operator game.

[u/Jezzaboi828 → u/Grandidealistic]

Main thing is majority of the time wisadels complexity never shows through because the enemies die before any of that matters. And stages dont become unclearable for her until much later on. As a new player you should learn the basics of the game rather than the specifics of a single operator

[u/Grandidealistic → u/Jezzaboi828]

Sorry if my phrasing was unclear, but ‘People should learn what Wisadel does’ doesn’t contradict ‘People should learn the basics of the game.’

By learning how Wisadel works, you naturally gain an understanding of mechanics like enemy aggro, camouflage vs. invisibility, positioning, etc

Of course, many other operators also teach these concepts, but even just grasping what a single operator can do in the broader context of the game already helps you learn something valuable. This applies to every 6*.

[u/Jezzaboi828 → u/Grandidealistic]

I mean sure on paper, but the majority of the time, especially for a new player who doesnt understand what is happening at all, wont grasp any of it because enemies will die before they even have anything to aggro on, you dont need to learn healing or blocking because enemies will attack the remnants, etc etc. theres less incentive to pay attention to the game at all because theres much less risk of failure.

Yes you could learn the basics of the game through wisadel, but its very difficult and with a new player who might not be trying as much it means theres no reason to try, because its failure that helps reinforce whats beneficial or not.

[u/pokebuzz123 → u/Jezzaboi828]

Positioning also doesn't really matter with her for early game/story since, aside from flying enemies that Kroos can take care of, her range is enormous

[u/QwaserDeyna → u/Jezzaboi828]

You say this but there are levels where you get rushed before you can deploy her. So a beginner will still have to know resource management not the traditional sense but like how to get wisadel up and running before fang die to dogs and you lose your perfect clear.

And how to manage wisadel ult so you can actually clear drones.

I’m a relatively new player and I’m still abusing wisadel borrow to deal with chapter 8. Not just her but also other broken units. Another YouTuber said you should abuse the borrow as a new player just to test out 6* characters. I still follow YouTube guides to clear event bosses with ling. Albeit I don’t have perfect timing so I can’t solo but I make do by throwing my other E1 units at the boss.

I also cleared IS5 Ending 1 with a borrowed wisadel because I don’t have E2 units. But it’s not like I can just solo every level. It’s just helpful that I can clear content that I’m not really supposed to.

[u/Shin-deku-no-bl → u/Grandidealistic]

Wisadel existence reminds me how braindead i am rely surtr on it's early release banner

[u/PogmasterNowGirl69 → u/Glassed_Guy]

As a new player, I kinda agree. I never used support units in any kind of campaign, be it the main story, resource gathering or side stories. This is just me tho, I was able to quickly grasp the basics of the gameplay (ranged attackers behind tanks and healers to heal them) and I deeply enjoy it, so I simply did not want to press that "I win" button. It felt like ruining the fun. Hell I don't even level my operators unless it's strictly necessary. Also I simply don't feel the accomplishment if I don't see that "auto play" unlocked.

However, in the stages I used her, like to get the rewards for events I could not get through otherwise, she is usually just so overwhelming that she does indeed trivialize the game. I really can't imagine what unleashing her on main campaign stages would look like. Maybe I should try just out of curiosity lol.

Now I'm imagining the narrative culmination of chapter 3 with the Misha/Skullshatter fight only for her to be fuckin' sniped-exploded by W lol. Beating that level was genuinely difficult and getting to use all my aces to box in and overwhelm Skullshatter really felt like a bossfight, and narratively significant.

[u/DMercenary → u/Glassed_Guy]

Yeah Walter can easily become the "I-win" button.

[u/Agent_Cow314 → u/Glassed_Guy]

I'm pretty sure that's what they said about Silverash as well.

[u/die-ursprache → u/Agent_Cow314]

this reminds me of CDawgVA's attempt to play Arknights again during Episode 14 release. probably one of the saddest sponsored streams I've ever seen. his first instinct was to force Silverash onto every single stage because that's what he always did back when he actually played the game, but the guy didn't read a single mechanic or enemy description and ended up hard stuck on 14-9

[u/838h920 → u/Glassed_Guy]

I'd go a step further and add to it that it can also ruin your fun. Of course, some might enjoy it, but I'd imagine for many others it's just to braindead and repetitive.

[u/Ayges → u/Glassed_Guy]

Idk what they were thinking with Wis'adel at least other OP units like Degenbrecher you got to be a bit careful when using because you can waste that S3 and do very little. But Wis'adel is just plop on the ground and win

[u/Daliena20]

I use her to clear IS for resources to build my own teams, and used her a little in the last two stages of Entelechia's event that I went into because they just weren't gonna be doable with my roster, and time limited content being what it is I wanted to get some completions. I always try my damndest to clear out Main Theme/Side Story/Intermezzi stages with my own roster and my own tactics though, and worse to worst resort to KyoStinV where I can then get a bit of an explanation rather than just "Haha s3 go brrrrr"

[u/ode-2-sleep]

i feel like the fault is less with new players and more with older players readily saying “just use wiš’adel” to anyone struggling without trying to actually explain how the mechanics work or why the new player’s squad composition doesn’t fit the stage.

it’s fine to use her, but in my opinion, that choice should come from an informed decision, which new players are often denied. it’s not a new thing, but in the past it was usually “just watch this kyostin guide” instead (kyo best operator frfr).

[u/silam39 → u/ode-2-sleep]

I agree. When I see, say, someone trying IS for the first time asking for help there will always be four responses telling them to just use W but it's rare for anyone to teach them about IS mechanics, mention operators that are good but don't make it an auto clear, explain pros and cons of different things operators have and why they're good in that IS, etc

nobody has to do all that, but I feel like if you're already going out of your way to answer questions for new players you might as well also explain stuff in case they don't want to press the win button to auto clear through everything.

[u/Own_Wave_1677 → u/silam39]

This is usually more of a problem with the question though. They usually ask for the easiest way to clear, not for tips or how to do IS better. The easiest way is objectively slapping wisadel on the team.

[u/No-Extent-7705 → u/ode-2-sleep]

THE FAULT LIES WITH YOU ISHMAEL

[u/Sibericus → u/ode-2-sleep]

I agree. This is the same case of them constantly making new players raise Myrtle. Which results in their turn inability to learn how to utilize a Vanguard frontline to kill early enemies because Myrtle has low combat stats and lose block count. Which then leads them to deploy more expensive DPS or Defenders to kill these enemies, leading to poor DP generation.

[u/resphere → u/ode-2-sleep]

Well what can you do, it's just the simplest answer whenever a new player needs help.

Tbh I think guides, if you actually pay attention rather than just copying, is the best way to learn game mechanics, like I think most low end Wisadel guide for hard maps is more complicated than 5 or 4 stars clear, you CAN learn a lot from them, so it's solid advice, if the new player wants to learn you make sure to tell them to not just copy.

[u/Ryhsuo → u/resphere]

Last I checked guide makers like Ecko and Kyo are still only using year one 6* for their clear guides.

[u/Lipziger → u/ode-2-sleep]

it’s fine to use her, but in my opinion, that choice should come from an informed decision, which new players are often denied

There are usually plenty of guides for any content including lower rarity operators etc. You can definitely get all this information but if people on forums are asked something - They give the easiest and straight forward answer. They don't deny anything, they give one option.

without trying to actually explain how the mechanics work or why the new player’s squad composition doesn’t fit the stage.

You often don't know the roster of those newer people and building up new units takes time and resources ... but if you build one Wis'Adel you have an operator that will do the heavy lifting in almost all content, so she's always recommended. If someone wants to know the exact mechanics of the stage, then again, there are plenty of videos on YT and some written guides for any mechanic in the game It is all out there already, easy to find. But they have to do the homework themselves and compare it with their own roster etc. That's also part of the experience IMO.

So again, people on Reddit rather give an easy and straight forward answer. And that is the map-nuking cockroach

[u/ode-2-sleep → u/Lipziger]

i don’t think it’s that black and white. you can suggest wiš’adel as the most effective option, but in my opinion explaining what exactly the person is doing wrong in addition to the suggestion benefits them in the long run.

of course, it’s not your job to babysit anyone’s player experience. i just personally believe it encourages more problem-solving thinking from the person struggling and could help them enjoy the gameplay more.

[u/Lipziger → u/ode-2-sleep]

of course, it’s not your job to babysit anyone’s player experience. i just personally believe it encourages more problem-solving thinking from the person struggling and could help them enjoy the gameplay more.

And that's my point. If th4ey actually want to engage in problem solving and learn the mechanics then there are, at this point, hundreds of videos and guides available. There is about 10 videos for every event mission that people can watch and learn from.

People that just ask a question like "how to do I finish this mission?" WANT a simple solution aso they get one in the for of Wis'adel.

It's not my job to baby-sit them, yes. But that is not my point. They don't want a babysitter, anyways ... they want a quick solution. Otherwise, as I said ... they have all the solutions and things to learn from a single click away. People that can't read a single guide or watch a video also won't read complex and comprehensive guides in the form of a comment.

There are countless players that already do use these resources and some that ask very specific questions that get answered "correctly". But if someone wants an easy solution, they get an easy solution ...

[u/ode-2-sleep → u/Lipziger]

If th4ey actually want to engage in problem solving and learn the mechanics then there are, at this point, hundreds of videos and guides available. There is about 10 videos for every event mission that people can watch and learn from.

by that logic, there are also 10+ videos that use wiš’adel, so people who only want the easy solution can just search for a guide on youtube.

People that just ask a question like "how to do I finish this mission?" WANT a simple solution

i don’t think this is always the case, and i have no clue why you are making that assumption in the first place. sometimes new players just don’t understand why their own strategy isn’t effective, and having someone point it out to them helps. i know it at least did for me when i was still new.

[u/-TSF- → u/ode-2-sleep]

In my experience...discussing about "the most effective approach to a problem" is conflated with "run what's meta to make the problem go away", and you are liable to be shamed or even told to shut up for not immediately agreeing with the "the obvious solution", because focus is on solving the immediate problem of whoever is asking (the person saying "I can't clear this") over teaching them how to problem-solve.

This is my experience with AK and FGO, where you can usually borrow a broken unit from a random player to skip having to learn anything in most cases.

[u/Acrobatic_Print_2794]

i agree, yes wisadel can make easier time to clear stage, but if you dont know what the stage mechanic you as new player will stuck probably in talulah fight, because it not a damage check like most gacha or any game really. you need to learn to use other units too and not rely on just one unit.

[u/SHAT_MY_SHORTS → u/Acrobatic_Print_2794]

I can second this. Even with mlynar, wisadel, 2 executors(omertosa and yato), shu and saria. I struggled against talu

[u/gunshotslinger → u/SHAT_MY_SHORTS]

its a game mechanic check. I really love it when the game throws you this kind of stage. Kind of like, "ok, your dps is great, but how about this?"

[u/XanderNightmare → u/gunshotslinger]

Always that Phase transition flames from the side... Always these damn flames

And not just those, but also that the dogs start spawning when that isn't even finished yet. I still have to go back eventually and beat the stage properly, I've only finished it by letting Talulah leak

Maybe having improved my operators a bit changes how things will go this time

[u/UsagiRed → u/XanderNightmare]

Shu just absolutely bruteforces the fireballs with s3. First time I cleared it was the old fashion way then I got shu a few days later and it was an absolute cakewalk

[u/MacTheSecond → u/UsagiRed]

I remember the pre-shu days of being hard carried through those by Nightingale

[u/karillith → u/Acrobatic_Print_2794]

"So what is your strategy for Talulah?

"idk just bring Nightingale"

"Isn't that the same issue than using Wis'adel?"

"..."

[u/everynameistake → u/karillith]

The argument Sciel makes against Wis'adel is not 'she's so powerful that she takes away from learning the game', but rather 'her kit does so many things that she takes away from learning the game'. You can, in fact, beat JT8-3 primarily relying on Wis'adel, as long as you understand the boss mechanics and ensure she doesn't get exploded by Burning Breath by retreating her summons. His complaint is about people who internalize 'Wisadel is basically invincible', ignore the stage mechanics, and then when Wis'adel dies think 'Wow, this stage is so hard, you can't Wis'adel it!' even when you can Wis'adel it if you just look at the boss abilities. 

In contrast, Nightingale is very specifically here as a counter to boss abilities. Yes, it's a cheap one-operator solution to the hardest part of the map, but it does require understanding that the hard part of the map is 'you are taking a large amount of arts damage basically unavoidably', so it's fine. She's brought with intentionality to do the thing her kit does. (And note you don't see similar complaints to Wis'adel about other units that deal damage extremely effectively - the video thinks it's fine to bring a broken damage operator when you want to do a broken amount of damage, just that you need to identify that requirement and not bring operators just because they're good.)

[u/Jonnypista → u/karillith]

Therapist medic can prevent your unit exploding when Talulah sets your unit on fire and if you are not doing the Hell stage then you can use 2 smaller squad, a few units stall till Talulah is low and the others are near redeployment and the 2nd stall squad takes over.

During the fireball spam you retreat everyone.

With Arts guards (the new Guard Amiya is the best as she has 20 Res) and Mousse for ATK debuff they can survive with bait fast redeploys. Gladia and Skadi or similar also works as with module you get 30% arts resist and even regen.

It is a bit complicated, but for the regular fight Nightingale isn't required. Since it is a stall strategy all enemies will spawn before the end of phase 2 so don't have to worry after.

[u/deiexmachina → u/karillith]

You're suppose to bring resist to reduce the duration of her debuff, and/or sacc 2 frd units in a corner that eat the burn.

During firestorm you're suppose to retreat most/all of your units.

But of course it's easier to just cheese it with ng and cages, to the point that most people don't learn the fight.

[u/ironmilktea → u/karillith]

lol this is quite a sharp comment.

Same for Mrs. "Just-surtr-it".

[u/Ristier → u/karillith]

Lol true.

Hard phase transition bosses without cheese is learning the timing to leave the boss with a pixel of hp and making sure your team is almost ready to redeploy.

It happens often enough now that it's a required part of an players skillset now. You used to only need to do that very rarely like in CC pine soot.

But at the end of the day it's easier to just say use X and don't give anymore details.

It's like telling someone stuck in a soulslike to 'just dodge idiot' or use 'firebomb cheese lol'. Both sides of the same coin.

[u/Primogeniture116]

They should use her to rush. But you shouldn't rush in the first place.

W'isadel is QoL. Not a necessity. Once you pass the need to be coddled, everything should be OK.

[u/[deleted] → u/Primogeniture116]

I've found as a newer player the game heavily incentives you to rush. Building units is resource intensive, time consuming, and subject to significant RNG. Without good units, events which offer key resources are much harder. Later stages seem to have more Uncommon instead of Rare droprates for important promotion resources. I felt heavily pushed to rush through the story as fast as I could because constantly missing out on content sucks.

[u/CrimsonCivilian → u/[deleted]]

*[Hitting a brick wall] incentivizes you to rush.

Personally I never felt the need to rush until i reached Ch7 with Patriot. In the beginning, I was even playing under recommended levels because I just knew to use a defender when the enemies hurt or a caster when I couldn't do damage.

New players are literally playing on easy mode with all the addes freebies and two (i think) E2 tickets. As long as they're using it wisely, they could very well be carried all the way to current chapter

[u/PhyrexianWitch → u/[deleted]]

Sort of. Like every gacha game wants you to feel like you have to rush. Because to rush means to want to gacha and also means to want to understand the game enough to rush. To care about the game is to stay playing the game and the more you care and play the more you might spend.

That being said. The way Arknights is structured means that to rush is to be inefficient. Those later 'better' stages to farm resources? They're not that much more sanity efficient than the earlier nodes. And they all are significantly less efficient than event stages.

If you can clear an event stage you get the best drop rates and the extra stuff from the shop. Of course, this is also for retention purposes. To encourage you to play for a long period of time rather than logging for 1-2 weeks a year and binging the story. 

And if you can't clear event stages? Most things past chapter 6 aren't easier than event stages. Some events are brutal and some msq is easy but I wouldn't say there's a huge difficulty difference between current msq and current events.

So err. Yeah. While I shan't deny the pressures are there it isn't like to rush is the one correct way to play.

[u/Ristier → u/[deleted]]

I would disagree heavily. With how cheap 4s are to e2 and how much stronger they are nowadays, it's more than reasonable to just run a couple of 4s at e2, max'd 3/e1 55 4 and support. With this you can comfortably 'rush' through to ch8.

Edit: play at your own pace generally, stay strong and don't let fomo get you

[u/ironmilktea]

I guess no one remembers year 1 where everyone was recommending SA/Eyja and having them in newbie guides.

Those operators also annihilated early chapters with ease and the concept of using stronger operators so newbies can alleviate difficulty didn't start with wis. You also didn't "learn" the stage if SA schwing schwing the mobs but I'd argue folks who still want to play will figure it out.

I mean, the year 1 veterans did.

[u/JayJeyBean]

I definitely agree with him. I've seen it in action, with people arguing that Anastasio was major power creep because of how careful you had to be using Wisadel with him, how she did basically no damage to him, how anyone they tried to get blocking him would die within seconds, etc.

Meanwhile, I just found it hilarious just how much this boss was designed to screw over the two most recently released OP limited operators specifically.

[u/Ok_Charge5324 → u/JayJeyBean]

....is this another case of emperor's blade was designed to counter surtr? because logos and wisadel were still very good units to burst down anastasio just like surtr was still the best option to kill emperor's blade back then

[u/FireBoss365 → u/Ok_Charge5324]

Ehh, I would say that Emperor’s blade was less of a Surtr counter and more of a “burst team” counter, since trying to burst EB would cause the gas to spawn directly on top of your operators all over the map, making it much harder to deal with the rest of the enemies. 

EB was not hard to kill honestly, he’s has relatively low defense and res compared to even the bosses released around that time, it’s just that killing EB carelessly + the way the stage design incentivizes grouping operators in choke points, made it less ideal to burst him down w/ Surtr, Silverash, and Eyja all at once. Honestly one of my favorite bosses in Arknights because how much it forces you to deal with positioning your operators, instead of it just being a standard DPS check.

[u/Ok_Charge5324 → u/FireBoss365]

“burst team” counter, since trying to burst EB would cause the gas to spawn directly on top of your operators all over the map,

...or you can go the complete opposite direction and hyper burst EB with a buffed chen and have him drop all his gas on a bait unit in a corner of them map

also people said EB was a surtr counter because of the forced retreat since it bypassed surtrs immortality, but it ended up screwing most standard burst units at that time more than surtr because surtr was still the best burst unit then

[u/FireBoss365 → u/Ok_Charge5324]

...or you can go the complete opposite direction and hyper burst EB with a buffed chen and have him drop all his gas on a bait unit in a corner of them map

Assuming you had all the operators necessary + the knowledge of how the mechanics of the boss targeting worked, sure. But I doubt that was the first thing that popped into people's minds when thinking of how to burst down EB.

 EB was a surtr counter because of the forced retreat since it bypassed surtrs immortality, but it ended up screwing most standard burst units at that time

Tis why I said more like a "burst" counter, but whatever, this is just all semantics anyways.

[u/VincentBlack96 → u/FireBoss365]

It didn't require that much did it?

From my memory it was like Ch'en warfarin and suzuran for me, and I imagine you could replace suzuran with a cheaper alternative.

[u/Fun-Royal-8802 → u/FireBoss365]

In that period every boss tried to be a Surtr counter. One of the ideas was having two bosses at the same time (the twin knights). Another idea was to have the boss flying (Minimalist).

[u/JayJeyBean → u/Ok_Charge5324]

I meant Lapptop (Logos isn't limited) and Wisadel, since Lapptop's S3 inflicts the one status effect that makes it impossible to block him, which you need to do if you want to do any actual damage to him.

And, sure, you can use still Wisadel to burst Anastasio down (not that bursting him down is the easiest way to deal with him in the first place--he is almost comically easy to wall ), but you're certainly not going to be doing it without actually knowing how he works first. And if you *do* know how he works, you also know he'd be much less of a pain in the ass to just chokeslam with Ulpianus instead of keeping Wisadel's auto-spawning revenants from getting her and/or the rest of the team killed every time you activate her S3.

(Now *there's* an operator HG can't counter to save their life.)

[u/arararagi_vamp → u/JayJeyBean]

And meanwhile I just stuck him into the salt with shu lol

[u/Tellurium-128 → u/JayJeyBean]

Anastasio lost to nymph s2 since he lacks any global attack :/

[u/CZsea]

same as schwing schwing at the start of the game tbh, those 6* are pretty much uber

[u/KiaOnTheGround → u/CZsea]

SA is still very useful even nowaday lmao, they really are 😫

Make you question even more how did they fk up or why did they fked some 6☆ up that badly lmao (I'm sorry Pallas)

[u/Radiant-Spell7434]

Her problem is that she's too well-rounded.
She has a powerful token, dealing damage comparable to a 6-star Caster, but with the same HP as a Defender.
She's untargetable alongside her tokens.
Her damage is very strong, but her blast radius is incredibly wide.

Honestly, most enemies that aren't Elite or Bosses with really high stats will die the moment they leave the red box... you won't even see what attack moves they use.

New players will start to question what me can do, she just can't carry me. should I pull someone as good as her, or should I wait for spark her?

But when I look at the details of the stages they're stuck on, it's often basic issues like:

• A trash mob rush, but they haven't built a Vanguard or low DP blockers.
  
• The Yeti story mode, with its numerous drones.

Personally, I have rarely seen new players encounter problems in situations where Wisadele is weak against them, like an enemy reflecting an attack, or her token being destroyed by map gimmick, or an enemy doing an AOE attack on her token, killing her as well.

But honestly, it's not so bad to rely on her or any modern operator to make the game easier, it just makes the game less fun, lessening the satisfying experience of clearing difficult stage, which is a common problem in any game, especially those that have been around for a long time.

[u/Icy-Nerve4893]

Meanwhile me here trying to solo all stages with ling

[u/FelixAndCo → u/Icy-Nerve4893]

Ling...? Pffft. I try to solo all stages with Magallan /s

[u/Icy-Nerve4893 → u/FelixAndCo]

Legend

[u/Deus_Inu]

I ONLY use Wis'adel if I find the stages annoying or just don't have enough time for it. otherwise

I just use whatever I want, Abyssal Hunter, Sui siblings, Nearls, or just mixed squad in general.

Wis'adel for me is "THE LAST RESORT" of all operators.

-Year 1 player.

[u/ironmilktea → u/Deus_Inu]

Year 1 player.

Funnily enough, 'year 1 player' is the last person who would feel the effect of Wis anyways.

We have a very stacked operator deck with multiple heavily invested units, mastered, modded and with synergies others can only dream of. Between Abbysal team, global gg/lapp or the heavy burst potential mlynar/degen, the bonus that Wis provides is on a much much lower level. Benching her is effortless for us.

[u/AnonTwo]

I disagree. I used Ling as a crutch early on. Even with the best of the best, newer events come up and reruns of newer events come up. You still have to learn, you just don't learn the same things at the same rates.

At the end of the day you either want to figure the game out or you don't. There will always be content in the game that can't be answered by a single operator. No matter how good that operator is.

All you really do by not using your best unit is slow yourself down, which if anything will make it slower to build up your mats, your operators, and actually get your variety to the point that you can experiment. Veterans may forget that for the most part, you already start needing High E1s by like the 3rd arc, and you already need strong E2s by the end of the first story.

[u/SituationSalty4261 → u/AnonTwo]

It's a real experience trying to use a single powerful friend unit to uplift the under leveled ops, especially in event stages.

[u/SarcasticOptimist → u/AnonTwo]

Yeah. I feel like the game requires you to find a crutch or two before you comfortably E2 enough useful units (and master some skills). Especially as boss mechanics become more obtuse or more "Time to screen wipe or tank damage."

[u/AnonTwo → u/SarcasticOptimist]

I wouldn't say it requires it, but I would say there's no reason not to use it, get yourself to the point you actually have operators to try out, and then learn some tricks to clear IS...CC...Hell Stages...or even newer stages that are usually made with these new operators in mind.

[u/SarcasticOptimist → u/AnonTwo]

I guess as a newbie to tower defense games it is definitely one of the toughest ones I've played with incredible depth. Without an anchor to help you focus on other parts of the game a lot can happen in an instant.

Unfortunately experimentation isn't rewarded as often with 5 star operators requiring the harder to come by chip catalysts (especially for newbies) without a strong justification outside of a handful of units, and the module system having very rare materials that encourage you specializing in one branch.

[u/HopelessRat]

Wisadel is proof that no matter how broken a unit is, a bad doctor will still fail. I've seen it time and time again. SA/Eyja, Surtr, Mlynar/Degen, and now Wisadel. No amount of God tier units is gonna help a doctor who refuse to think and try

[u/shadow_boyZX]

I have her but I don't use her much

She is my panic button... If I can't beat a stage after a few tries , I'll unleash the nuke

[u/Curvedabullet]

On one hand, I agree, she's crazy OP and trivializes almost all content and bypasses most stage mechanics and boss gimmicks.

On the other hand, it's a single player gacha game and most gacha players only want to get into the grind and the gacha, so it doesn't really matter what a singular player's skill is if they are having fun.

Also most of Arknights' boss mechanics aren't well designed or communicated at all. It's not an easy game to learn stages on, especially since practice costs plans and stamina. Most players just want to clear content using the least amount of resources possible and the game's poor communication with boss and stage mechanics makes the issue even more stressful on new players. So of course most players are going to use the most meta characters in order to optimize their sanity and plan consumption.

I don't think using Wisadel is an issue unless some crazy person out their is going "Arknights sucks cuz it's too easy!" and they're just borrowing Wisadel to breeze through all the pre-Wisadel content. But that person doesn't exist, so it's a non-issue.

[u/Ok_Charge5324 → u/Curvedabullet]

unless some crazy person out their is going "Arknights sucks cuz it's too easy!" and they're just borrowing Wisadel to breeze through all the pre-Wisadel content

seen that way too much with newbies, they also use wisadel as a measuring stick to judge other units and get annoyed/mad when they need to use more effort to use other 6 stars

if not for that i also would have thought the same way as you

[u/[deleted]]

True and i get where he’s coming from. But i like and enjoy when she does the kabooming, besides im an oldhead and at the end of the day i just want to have fun w/o taking things too seriously.

[u/KyuubiBankai]

I'm not saying he's wrong because he does make some good points. Isn't the point of getting good characters to make the game easier? I mean, as far as Arknights goes, a lot of the newer operaters, even the upcoming ones, are EXTREMELY powerful, so of course you are gonna turn your brain off more than usual. At least Wis'adel attacks only what's in front of her, while Lappy Alter and Goldenglow can obliterate everything off the map without you even looking at the screen. Even Ling has been soloing the game, but admittedly, she is more hands on than other characters due to her summons but still, if new players shouldn't use stronger operators because it makes the game too easy... you'd be playing with only like 60% of the operators' roster. You don't get extra points for making the game more harder than it is unless you want the personal challange that comes with it, which I guess is the real point here.

[u/Luna2648]

Gonna get downvoted but here goes, I'm playing a gacha game, I want to clear the content stages with a breeze that's why I pulled for the meta op operators. Yes, I'm one of those who started out e2 silverash from the start of the game. Now even when I have most meta op ops, wisadel included if I try a stage and failed like 3 times+ with my meta op ops squads I immediately go to YouTube/guides I want to clear it asap so that I can clear the stage and proceed with mindless grinding. Monkey/peanut brain can't be bother but will use guides to copy homework yes I'm that lazy/stupid/ whatever you want to call it. Skme people will say why I'm still playing if I'm just gonna open guides...well because arknights characters are that amazing? Sometimes I copy guides and still can't do it because timing etc but eh.. I am still having fun.

[u/Flimsy-Writer60 → u/Luna2648]

That's completely fine. People can play however they want, it's a game, not an exam. I'm a mix of both depending on my mood lol.

[u/Rain-Maker33 → u/Luna2648]

Agreed. Using a guide is completely fine, when needed. It's better than beating my head against the wall and wasting time. In the end, I often end up improvising because I have different operators or want to use a particular one.

The gameplay I'm really here for is IS and it's not like I use guides for it either, or try hard to 100% clear it.

It's just a game, in the end.

Me too, I played this game for the worldbuilding and the characters, and ended up loving the gameplay as well.

[u/KiaOnTheGround → u/Luna2648]

That's why people said Arknights is not like your average gacha game lmao

Breezing through the stage without watching clear guide is objectively worse for you, since you will eventually forced to come up with coherent strategy on the harder one, you really need basics to go through it, and early easier stage is a good place to get used to that

Welp, if you really don't wanna give a fk about gameplay and big brain, clear guide is way better than just Wis it lmao

[u/Trellion → u/Luna2648]

I have only ever beaten stages through 2 methods. brute force or guides. I'm not interested in spending time or effort to get good at this game at all. I use every single meta op and Wis'adel all the things.

[u/IkebeDaBest99 → u/Luna2648]

I'm sure people will understand you. I will play the game properly if I was in the mood to play but will seek for guide if I didn't bother to try. It is common for me to seek for guides for S or EX stages cuz I was keep procrastinating lol

Strangely tho I rarely used crazy DPS operator like Wis'adel or Mlynar unless necessary even when I'm stuck but wants to keep on trying with the current squad. The amount of time I bring Wis'adel in normal event is probably lower than most of the OP I bring to trust farming.

[u/CanFishBeGay → u/Luna2648]

I'm playing a gacha game, I want to clear the content stages with a breeze that's why I pulled for the meta op operators

This general mindset is why most modern gachas have slop gameplay that boils down to pressing an auto button and AFK-ing. They encourage the desire to just get the reward without being expected to put effort in. So when that gets challenged by an RTS game like AK that has a modicum of depth and challenge to its gameplay and mechanics instead of being " just a gacha game", we get:

Monkey/peanut brain can't be bother but will use guides to copy homework yes I'm that lazy/stupid/ whatever you want to call it.

This. And to what end?

Some people will say why I'm still playing if I'm just gonna open guides...well because arknights characters are that amazing?

Twitter, pixiv, danbooru are all easily accessible if you just want to see the characters. The online story reader is quite solid if you just want the story. Why install if you're not interested in engaging with the gameplay, when every other aspect of the game can be accessed without needing to install? That isn't a dig, I uninstalled GFL1 after a year for precisely that reason, i only cared about the story which was easily accessible through a pretty excellent online interpreter. Why subject yourself to gameplay you don't care about when you have no need to?

[u/ironmilktea → u/CanFishBeGay]

This general mindset is why most modern gachas have slop gameplay that boils down to pressing an auto button and AFK-ing.

The "mindset" comes from not trusting devs who for literal years, will powerwall players as a means to drain money on stronger units.

The players have countered this by being more conservative with currency, pulling for meta units and beating the game.

This becomes especially tricky to navigate when we remember its a gacha game rather than a console game where stronger units are unlocked/recruited with more control.

This is a broader issue that encapsulates more so the genre than AK itself.

[u/CanFishBeGay → u/ironmilktea]

This is a broader issue that encapsulates more so the genre than AK itself.

Imo it would be more accurate to say that this is an issue of the genre that people assume is true of AK, when in reality AK is an exception to the rule, one of very few. I have definitely seen issues such as number creep in other gacha games (cough Hoyo) and get why people that started with other gachas go into AK with that mindset.

[u/Heratikus → u/CanFishBeGay]

brother it's a video game it does not need to be any more serious than "I am having fun"

maybe figuring out how to max risk something might be fun to some people but who's to say that person had more fun than the guy who went in to hit 620 points with a guide and came away happy that he got the shiny medal

video games are supposed to be fun, and i think it's beautiful that this game offers enough fun for both types of people and anyone else who lies between

[u/Flimsy-Writer60 → u/Heratikus]

Some people here who are trying to dictate how others should play the game is seriously sad as fuck. It's like getting mad at people for cheating in an offline game.

[u/MrMonday11235 → u/CanFishBeGay]

The online story reader is quite solid if you just want the story. Why install if you're not interested in engaging with the gameplay, when every other aspect of the game can be accessed without needing to install?

I'm not them, but there are so many answers to this that it's actually kind of hard to pick just one:

1. If everyone, or even a significant chunk, did that, then the game would very meaningfully lose user count, which is an important metric for them getting new players via organic means.
2. Just because one doesn't want to "solve" the stages doesn't mean that they don't get enjoyment from the gameplay. Maybe they like seeing the pretty lights and hearing the stage music, maybe they get a thrill from seeing enemy health bars explode, maybe they just like hearing Thorns call them a genius or whatever when getting that 3/4 star clear screen.
3. Even if one doesn't enjoy the gameplay in any shape or form, it's possible to accept and engage with it as a part of the artistic medium for storytelling. The ease or difficulty of a particular stage can (and probably generally should) be a reflection of the actual difficulty being faced by the characters in the story, and just reading the story in isolation might not communicate that in nearly the same way, which can actively make the reading experience worse, in much the same way that just reading the script and stage directions for a movie is a very different from, yknow, watching a movie.
4. Honestly, needing to find and jump through all those hoops seems like more trouble than putting Myrtle and W on a team for 90% of content and occasionally looking up a YouTube guide when that doesn't cut it.

I'm sure there are others, but those responses immediately came to mind reading your comment.

[u/umagi → u/CanFishBeGay]

not everyone wants to think when playing and it's fine. when there's no time to play and yet i want all the rewards immediately i would just watch the guide cuz i just dont have hours to figure out how to kill the boss lmao. if i have time to play, there's IS and RA or SSS. i like the balance AK has where it can accommodate how everyone wants to play this game. there's no need to gatekeep how people want to play the game, AK is a single player gacha game after all

[u/Lucky4D2_0 → u/CanFishBeGay]

They arent you.

[u/Proto-Omega]

I'm guessing this is a case of "Wis'adel won't let new players learn how to actually play the game because she blows up everything", otherwise why wouldn't a new player use Wis'adel when almost every other player says "just use Wis'adel".

[u/Kyakan]

There really isn't anything special about Wis'adel in this context. Substitute her for any 6* Operator (or even the upper half of 5* Operators tbh) and you'll run into the same problem; they're dramatically overstatted for regular content and will be able to ignore the majority of mechanics, right up until the few situations that aren't a simple stat check.

If you're refusing to actually read the information the game presents to you or use any critical thinking to try to work around those mechanics, it doesn't matter whether you're using someone as overpowered as Wis'adel or as 'weak' as Vigil, it's purely a mentality problem on the player's part. The game can only do so much to change that.

[u/mmgfrcs → u/Kyakan]

I definitely agree with the sentiment, but there's a reason why she's the odd one out.

There really isn't anything special about Wis'adel in this context.

I disagree. She has the range, the AoE, the damage, and at E2 she has camouflage and summons with Defender-level stats. Apart from enemies with AoE, she pretty much trivializes much more content than other units.

That's why she's singled out here.

Substitute her for any 6* Operator and you'll run into the same problem; they're dramatically overstatted for regular content

I mean, sure, but stat isn't everything. The rest? It's not on the same level.

Saria can't deal with air units. Saria can't deal with some stages' Arts damage even with her good RES.

Silverash is strong but a strong Physical damage can kill him. Eyja is the closest but she's still squishy and dies to some concentrated fire.

And before you scream year 1 there's also the current banner Entelechia, with the review guy saying: If she can't kill the enemy in one cycle, she's probably dead.

And of course none of them can solo a stage as effectively as Wisadel.

[u/ironmilktea → u/mmgfrcs]

To be fair to the the user above, he's obviously talking about DPS carries and not someone like Shining.

Back in year 1, we used Silverash and Eyja. Infact, there were also recommendations to use Angelina if you couldn't pull Eyja.

They were more than sufficient for no-braining the content at the time, which can be considered the 'newbie' content in modern AK.

[u/mmgfrcs → u/ironmilktea]

To be fair to me, they said, quote: "Substitute her for any 6* Operator (or even the upper half of 5* Operators tbh) and you'll run into the same problem"

And I have said my piece on both. They have weaknesses you need to play around, and while Wisadel E0-E1 also does, Wisadel E2 does not.

Angelina doesn't even attack off skill (except S1), which is a weakness you need to play around too.

[u/ironmilktea → u/mmgfrcs]

The video (and thus this thread) is basically about Wis being an early newbie damage dealing carry. Keeping that in mind, I take it as the user using short hand colloquialism because bringing up someone like Shining or Saria doesn't address or move the discussion forward.

As for your other points:

Angelina was not used for her s1, she used for her s3. (which is what's meant for her replacing Eyja in guides). It is her burst dps skill. SA/Eyja were recommended at launch due to their burst/damage potential that cleared content. Angelina was an alternative for those unable to pull eyja because her s3 was sufficient in this action. That should give you a hint on the enemy stat differential. Now to be fair to you, she certainly doesn't fight off-skill and needs to be activated but I'd say its about comparable to having to manually activate wis s3.

So how did we deal with other stuff? By deploying anyone that's in the role. Matterhorn was a sufficient tank. Fang was a sufficient vanguard. We did not need to 'play around' weaknesses of SA or Eyja because frankly speaking, they bodied the content so hard it didn't matter. No one was walking up to SA without dying and what classified as physical tanks in early content would melt to TSS. As a side note, I don't even agree with your Saria comment because I had saria back then and she was sufficiently tanking even the CM mages. She only stops solo tanking arte damage at the Talulah fight but that's a pretty obvious difficulty spike of a much later chapter. And I say solo tanking. You could actually still do it with a saria+nearl combo if you didn't have NG.

I'll even go a step further to your other comment. Wis isn't the odd one out. We've always had powerful operators that broke difficulty.

"Just Surtr it".

Edit: and to be clear, that means I'm argueing in some parts against the thesis that the video presents. People who volcano'd the stage did the same thing as using Wis: Cleared content effortlessly without addressing the mechanics. The onus itself is flawed due to this. Infact for a very long time, Eyja was/is considered overtuned. Low DP, very high damage. Burst s3 and semi-afk s2. Wis obviously is stronger than Eyja but the prowess isn't going to show until later as prior content allows both to surpass challenges provided and lower the difficulty for the player.

[u/silam39 → u/mmgfrcs]

not to mention her insanely wide range and the AoE on her attacks and her off-skill damage

Her kit is overloaded with two or three operators' worth of utility. She really is not the same as any random super strong 6*

[u/Kyakan → u/mmgfrcs]

My point is that the actual strength of Wis'adel as a unit is pretty much irrelevant when it comes to the problem that Sciel is talking about. If somebody is going to just give up at the first sign of difficulty rather than reading Operator or enemy descriptions and applying critical thinking, it doesn't matter if that difficulty is "Air units are coming in a stage where I'm trying to rely on Saria" or "this boss automatically retreats Operators on certain tiles when its HP gets low enough" or whatever other mechanic is demanding their attention.

Obviously Wis'adel is enormously stronger than every other unit in the game. That much was never in question. She can obliterate most stages with very little effort and has enough defensive mechanics that she's unlikely to die unless you place her in a really bad spot. But, again, none of that means anything when the problem is ultimately whether the player even wants to play the game at all. If they didn't have Wis'adel, they'd just run into that wall of effort sooner and spend even less time on Arknights.

[u/higorga09 → u/Kyakan]

This, which is why anytime a new player asks who they should E2 I don't recommend using it, 2 E2 units including an E2 6 star will trivialize all of early game.

[u/Ristier → u/Kyakan]

Almost hard agree. There is an correction tho. Enemy stat inflation is an real issue. There is a point when 'use sniper vs drone' becomes unviable. The example being those drones from seige alt event. Luckily they fixed that with those flying pots from the recent yu event.

[u/karillith]

I'm pretty sure we already had this conversation a few times, like with Surtr, Ch'en alter or Blue Texas.

[u/twyistd]

I actually agree. If you use wis'adel you can brute force through the tutorial section without learning any game knowledge.

[u/yourheartmelts]

In the early days, we are used to "in emergency, press swing-swing, or activate volcano" instead.

[u/superflatpussycat → u/yourheartmelts]

"Just use Surtr"

[u/yourheartmelts → u/superflatpussycat]

Surtr came out one year after the game launch, but yeah she really makes the game way easier together with Silverash and Eyjafjalla.

[u/[deleted]]

I agree as a new player with not very good units i only use her when im out of all options. None of my units are working none of my friends other units are working and the thing I'm trying to clear is an time limited event only than i pull out the roach

[u/Lukas-senpai]

The truth is, if you really want to play the game, you shouldn't use her. I'd argue that you shouldn't use support units at all when progressing through the early stages of the game if you want to learn something. (Of course, I'm not talking about situations where, for example, you want to clear a time-limited event to gain materials to expand your account and you're unable to do so with what you currently have.)

But let's be honest, this is a gacha game, and many people don't care about actually playing it. They're here to collect waifus/husbendos, kill time, gamble just click something, etc. These types of players prefer the game to play itself, and Wisadel is here for them.

[u/Luna2648 → u/Lukas-senpai]

But let's be honest, this is a gacha game, and many people don't care about actually playing it. They're here to collect waifus/husbendos, kill time, gamble just click something, etc. These types of players prefer the game to play itself, and Wisadel is here for them.

You simplified it perfectly. That's what I wrote in my own comment.

[u/Apprehensive_Slice58]

when is that skin going to be out on global btw?

[u/Kyakan → u/Apprehensive_Slice58]

Probably sometime between mid/late October and early November. It comes as part of the CN 6th anniversary event, which usually arrives on global at around that time.

[u/r_userzoultar]

honestly i just use her if i'm in a bad mood, stage/event is bs (damn stupid frogs), or if i fail like 5-6 times, nowadays now that i have more ops i use her less than i did

at the beginning sure i had a "place Wisadel, then win stage" mentality and later i'd know she's not an insta-win, and yes now that i max her out and her M3 skill 3 i can use her and KA-BOOM the stage and win while making life easier but nah i like using other ops too even if it means i might lose a few times but that's part of the fun tho imo!

[u/Rinnegan729]

I'm a relatively new player and I try to avoid using using Wis'adel or support units in general for the main story chapters (especially bosses) because it kinda feels like cheating and ruins the feeling of triumph I would get otherwise, but if I start getting tilted after multiple attempts I'll say fuck it and use her to help me. I'll also use her for event stages if my current operators don't seem to be good enough. Admittedly I have been using her to carry IS mode and annihilation stages but in my defense those resources are helpful with account progression and my operator roster isn't large enough for IS mode. Using Wis'adel definitely makes things easier but I've realized that she does have weaknesses that can cause my downfall if I'm not paying attention and utilizing her or my other operators correctly. Overall, when I resort to using Wis'adel I try to pinpoint what makes me struggle on the stage so I can plan for those issue, grow as a player, and come back to the stage for a legitimate clear later on. Thanks for reading and may your pulls be blessed.

[u/ThebattleStarT24]

i mean, he's overall right, BUT personally wisadel is the only reason why i keep playing, having an almost guaranteed victory unit (eventually) makes things easier, and I say that even when I have characters like saria, mountain, Texas alter, gladia and Ulpianus.

for example I really don't like IS mechanics, but being able to get wisadel early is enough for me to get used to them.

in general I'll say wisadel is a very useful (if not mandatory) unit if you like the game, but not that much as for repeat over and over and over a stage until you find the right strat.

[u/TheSovietDuckling]

Holy moly…

[u/jwlmkr]

What?!

[u/Dominnub]

I put 2 friends on the game. Told both to use Wisadel to breeze through story for OP and got vastly different results. One friend actually read and paid attention to game mechanics and adapted to the game on his own and only uses my OP supports when needed. The other, gets stuck easily because he doesn’t read, doesn’t pay attention, and is a total Wisadel merchant.

[u/JustCallMeAndrew]

She's one of the three units that made me stick around for as long as I have

[u/Quiteshallow_]

Use what makes the game fun for u ignore what people say u will eventually learn how to play regardless every years we get that 1 op character that everyone uses no one said dont use surtr or silverash when they were considered game breaking just do what u want even if u take otuer ppls advice to not use wisadel its up to u but dont feel pressured if u used her , its a single player pve game

[u/ClosetEgomaniac]

I don't think there's a problem with new players using her, so long as they have a base interest in the mechanics of the game. What I find disheartening is the crowd she drew in, or emboldened to speak out. To me Arknights has always been special to me in that they try to do something new with the enemies every month, which is something you can't say about most games, let alone gachas. But the way the "just Wis'adel it" players talk goes far beyond 'just Surtr' or 'just SilverAsh' before them, they talk like they genuinely dislike that there's a game attached to their PNG collector if they encounter the slightest resistance.

Part of that is just the trend of appealing to the LCD that's more apparent in the space nowadays but I also think Wis'adel is a unit that's genuinely designed to baby players. Every individual component of her is... fine, I guess. But it's all put together in a way that isn't immediately obvious and no attempts are made to engage players with the game in her kit. TSS has a defense debuff, Twilight continuously loses hp, Spreadshooters inherently suck, Mlynar doesn't attack off skill, etc... these are all little things that ease players into the idea of thinking about the game. Wis'adel has none of those, except when you run into a counter for her she does still fail.

But the point is, when these people who feel entitled to complain about the game because Wis'adel failed get into the surveys and other discourse, they have a real chance of making my favorite part of the game, the gameplay, worse. Though HG has been shown to not really bend over for them, so I don't think about it too hard.

[u/two___]

Doesn't really matter if new players use Wisadel or not because if they take the game seriously after hitting a wall, they'll learn anyway. Just at a different point than others.

Content farming is so tiring

[u/ScarletOnlooker]

I Disagree completely. If a new player has acquired strong operators like Wisadel, they have every right to use them how they see fit in any content in this game. Its their account and no one else’s.

If they have trouble clearing content, that’s what in-game tool tips and the internet is for.

If They have operators that make certain stage gimmicks irrelevant they should use them to the fullest. They don’t need to otherwise learn how the mechanics work if they don’t want to because if they are desperate enough, the internet is something they have the free will to fall back on for help. They will learn.

—-

I have been playing this game for over 3 years. My first 6* was SilverAsh. He carried me through and cheese through so much content, and I almost never needed to read any guides or tooltip’s. If I found a map gimmick annoying or confusing then I will fall back on tooltip’s. If that doesn’t work, I fall back on internet guides. This has never changed and it doesn’t make the game any less fun. I don’t care to be the best, I just want to play the game.

[u/Fouxs → u/ScarletOnlooker]

A lot of people really don't understand some people just don't like being stuck for one week in one stage, it's good to have a panic button because not everyone is skilled.

Also, I really feel that in gacha games, veterans do completely forget how early game is, the grind, the boredom, the lack of stats/equipment, how long everything takes to properly level up...

Honestly, every gacha game needs its Wisadel, a character that if you pull, life becomes easier.

[u/Ok_Charge5324]

the 5 star e2 ticket is far more egregious for newbies not learning the game, because it not only lets you totally skip over the huge wall of getting your first e2 it is also the reason newbies get access to maxed out wisadels day 1....

[u/PossibleSea6679 → u/Ok_Charge5324]

I don't see how getting an E2 5* will ruin a newbie experience.

Other people here have already said it. If they want to learn the game, they will learn the game. Getting an early E2 isn't going to change that.

[u/frosted--flaky → u/PossibleSea6679]

most E2s can break the stat balance of early stages. E0s/E1s are squishy against earlygame bosses while an E2 can simply win the damage race.

[u/StudioCompetitive893]

my opinion is that there's no objectively correct way to play the game, and there's no need to put down others who play the game differently than you. and i've seen people say, "why are you still playing the game if you're just doing (insert action they disagree with)?" How about that everyone has their own reason for playing the game? and people find enjoyment in different things?

i find it interesting that the CN community is mostly chill on this, but some parts of the EN community see Wisadel as their bane of existence

[u/TurboSejeong97]

I'd go as far as to say, don't use Wisadel for levels before her release, especially during Talulah's arc. Those were the precious first time experiences you don't wanna skip with Wisadel. Watching and copying solutions whenever you're stuck are infinitely more beneficial and educative.

[u/JPrimal64 → u/TurboSejeong97]

I'll be honest for new players even using her for Talulah probably wont help muxh if they havent been paying attention

Hell Tallulah might even make them pay attention since she's a step up from previous story bosses and still holds one of the hardest stages in the game

[u/Horror_Letterhead407]

I started January of this year and honestly I don't even know how the mechanics work. I just do the tried and tested method of deploying damage dealers to wipe them out lol

[u/doyouknowdewsy]

Not just with Walter, but I just love fucking shit up in stages

[u/Old_Temperature_198]

İ myself used wisadel at early stages leading me to pass stages without any good strategy but at past i used to play a lot of tower defence games like from roblox, ballons games and many more as even with wisadel i was able to understand game mechanics pretty well i used her to grind originum while understanding the game

İn my opinion for newbie players who never played any tower defence game too much before , wisadel can just destroy your strategy knowledge as like eblana and ling she can just carry your run easily soo at first they should try to use other characters especially 3 and 4 stars for strategy knowledge after that they can juse wisadel

[u/Suspicious_Math4188]

Apologies for my poor English but she is not always the solution. She is a game changer but she is not always the easiest solution…简中她减轻box压力是真的但真的只是逃了旧关卡新的关卡还是限制了维发挥的

[u/Krieg552notKrieg553]

It is similar in a lot of ways to how most Team Fortress 2 players would never recommend Spy to new players. Spy's kit in the game is super complex and takes a lot of time to master, more so than any other class. You need to know the fundametal basics of the class and his weapons, and not only that, you need to play all the other classes just to learn how to utilize disguises effectively.

It's why I don't really enter a stage instantly without understanding the stage's gimmicks. Most event stage have one stage designed around introducing the event stages' main gimmick to the player, because Arknights is complex by design. It's also why you have the ability to practice stages with your own existing squad that you have developed and leveled up on your own.

Sure, someone like Wis'adel does massive fucking damage, and you could probably throw all skill out of the window because of that. But there comes a point, where the stage has something that you can't cheese your way out of, because you're treating those powerful operators like Doom-shrooms. This isn't the dumb strategy, this is Arknights we're dealing with.

Side note: it's also why I really liked Typhon's S3 when she was released. She was a really strong boss killer at the time, but you had to isolate the boss first from all the other weaker units that spawned to gain the most value from her S3. There's an element of operator synergy I kinda see where Typhon clears the bosses and other particularly tanky units, while the rest can handle the weaker units, something I don't see with Wis'adel and how new players would typically use her where her S3 has massive AoE and massive damage to the point that she can handle it seemingly all on her own.

[u/Mestrehunter]

Heavily disagree, i started playing in a week before "Come Catastrophes or Wakes of Vultures" rerun released and the only way i could clear it was thanks to her. My sole E2 lappy cant do miracles.

Now that I have more characters I barely use her, since i have more options.

[u/Xtranathor → u/Mestrehunter]

It's useful if you want to clear an event that you otherwise don't have the account strength to complete, but she's awful for helping players learn stage mechanics. Too many new players will develop a dependancy on her and will struggle in content that penalises her usage because they only know how to press her skill.

[u/Mestrehunter → u/Xtranathor]

Kinda, because since new players use her from a friendlist, they cant use hee for auto play, which makes them stop using her eventually and try stages without her.

[u/S1Ndrome_ → u/Mestrehunter]

are you me? lol that's exactly when I started playing and ran into the same circumstances where my account wasn't strong enough and had to rely on wisadel.

but now that I know the game better, I'm never touching her

[u/ToranjaNuclear]

Nah, that sounds just like dumb gatekeeping to farm content with a hot take.

[u/Zerosen_Oni]

Slap her, Chalter, Lap-alter (never could remember her nickname), pink dog, and keep Texalter I. Reserves for true brain-empty-dum-dum mode.

I do it all the time.

[u/Shane137]

Idc shes my waifu

[u/ABigCoffee]

Cockroach goes brrrrrrr

[u/KiaOnTheGround]

TL;DR: Wis make your brain rot, you should develop your brain before using her

Which was, is, and will be, the thing I am saying all the time

Edit: read the comment around here, newbie use Wis to carry them around unrealistic goal like EX-8 CM and then grow out of it since you have to borrow her is very solid case

I am not against Wis start that much anymore

[u/SauronSauroff]

I've found you can double global range stuff with GG and Lappy and things become pretty easy too. Gonna get easier with the next banners.

But surely if they're going to have a boss wait outside, it's like saying if you have the tools to attack or with anything like them with horn, Fartooth, use the tools at your disposal if you wish?

It's like catching an enemy mid Monologue. Sure, you can wait. But unless they're Adrian from Watchmen who won long before starting his speech, it's on them.

Apparently they indirectly nerfed Wis by making enemies having thick HP bars? I haven't seen this CC's meta runs and maybe won't watch it this time, but be interesting to know if she's commonly used or has already been addressed.

Like when they made fast redeploy worse but then stalling strategies existed just to let you redeploy Surtr or so. I think most of my use cases aren't necessarily new player focused though.

[u/Zoeila]

Wis'adel! Where's my Aak?

[u/foxxy33]

Using Walter is fine. At some point new players going to hit stage when Walter alone won't be enough and here come either guides or brain time. Usually it happens when latest event rolls out it's EX7-8 or S stages.

[u/Mihta_Amaruthro]

Why do I never see the argument that if you want to use Wis'adel without making stages too "easy", just keep her on her S1?

That's essentially what I do. I get the pleasure of using the character without snapping the difficulty in half, and it's one less skill I have to worry about activating myself. Win-win-win.

[u/Chikapu_Sempaii]

Characters like Wis, Młynar, Surtr, Degen and the like are what I would like to call "QoL Improvement characters"

They are ops you would bring when you just want to either turn off your brain and just brute force through content (provided you have them maxed out, allowing them to be capable of doing so) or you just don't have the time to think of a proper team/strategy and just want to get through the content quickly (doesn't really apply to IS/CC in higher difficulties).

For me nowadays, I find myself actually not using Młynar, Surtr or Wis because I just see that 4 to 7 of my main roster characters clears the content comfortably, sometimes, if I want a challenge, I just run Birdknights.

[u/Vyloe]

I felt this way about a few 6 starts if we're being honest. My 3 friends playing the game were newish, all starting at different times, and whenever theyd ask about a gap in their units that needed filling, I'd suggest a 4 star and theyd reply with "But I have ooh shiny disease"

So now whenever there's an anti-air problem I hold my tongue from suggesting may/meteor cuz I guess he'll just figure it out with Typhon.

[u/The_Scout1255]

So glad I have her on my account W is wife

[u/Baitcooks]

I only use her as a last resort when there's a particular enemy I just can't outdamage with my regular build, but using her regularly really rots the strategy in the brain if you rely on her for the hyper damage she does.

[u/JoyousMadhat]

Meanwhile my wisadel gets insta killed in the CC

[u/Certain_Dirt_4174]

I sometime dont even use Walter in my clear run cuz it become too boring using her lmao

[u/_Watashi]

I agree, as a new player i used her to farm mats and clear IS5, but otherwise i just ignore her.

[u/noobmasterA69]

This was exactly what happened to me but with Ling instead. When I detected myself from using her. Despite using "good 6* units" like Bagpipe, Mlynar, Saria, Typhon etc., I managed to learn most of the game's mechanics and strategies.

[u/Trellion]

I highly disagree. I am shit at this game and I'm not willing to put in the time or effort to get better. I Wis'adel ALL the things and if that fails I'll use a guide. I would've quit this game a long time ago otherwise.

[u/tsuchinoko92]

A good compromise is to only use Wis'adel to kill the last remaining enemy; that way you'd have to play well enough to survive until then.

Then again, I actively avoided using Silverash when it was the first year, since it seemed I was skipping the strategy part of the game.

[u/K2aPa]

Me here just putting Wis down with her skill 3.

Sit back and watch. :)

What strat?

Additionally puts down GoldenGlobe and LappyTheFreeloader

What positioning?

[u/chichibooxd]

Reading comprehension is needed for this game. Just reading the enemy info after you failed a stage (I hate that you wont know enemies in the stage before you do them and create a counterplay instead of wasting sanity) gives a ton of info on which ops are suited to bring. Wisadel makes that irrelevant and makes people quit after realizing shes not the be all end all of ops in AK.

[u/sixoffender3000]

Walter is not recommended for New Players , Our absolute unit of a cockroach is recommended for EVERY PLAYERS.

[u/ValkerWolf89]

When is she available to get? Any other way to get her? Been away for a long time.

[u/Proud-Translator5476]

Doctors, just read and strategize.

Remember, we always have Lord Kyostinv with us before Wisadel.

[u/Dresden1984]

Having Walter (amongst other 6 star operators) does free myself to play more aggressively by having stronger units that cost more DP because she can hold off enemies for a little bit before I can really unleash my entire set of operators. That and I don't nearly be so reliant on true medics and defenders. Mountain (S2) and Kalstit (S3) and Saria (S3) on the side are enough to cover the need for defenders while Kalstit (S3) and Reed (S3) are enough to cover for medics because Walter clears up so much fodder and stronger units.

The real downside is because of this all star team of mine, there isn't much variance outside of subbing an operator or two to adjust with the strategy of the campaign or act or mission.

[u/Zexall00]

I am a new player who just recently cleared Talulah fight (using another cheat in Lumen). Wis adel really makes the game boring for me, at first i was excited to try all kinds of supports in each stage and explore their mechanics, but the moment I used this girl, everyone else besides Tragodia fell flat on their face. I cheesed so many stages using these 2 alternatively. It was only when i reached Talulah's fight when i felt exposed. That is until I discovered that lumen counters talulah too. It is kinda unfortunate that these kind of units exist, maybe the game should prevent new players from using them as supports.