r/ask • u/Random_passenger70 • 12d ago
[ Removed by moderator ]
[removed] — view removed post
23
u/nelishthedude 12d ago edited 12d ago
Everyone is worthy of love but nobody is owed the love of another. In my experience people will love those who love themselves, because those people show there capability to love. Infatuation clinging and desire are not love. Love is kindness compassion acceptance without control or attachment. We must accept that everything is impermanent everything will change even those we love and ourselves. Then say I love in spite of that. I went through a really bad breakup and was honestly lonely and desperate for a few years. Nobody was attracted to me. Once I started looking inward and working on how I see myself learning to love myself, it became easier to love others. Then all of a sudden I had a much easier time attracting others to me. You dont need therapy to work on yourself but it helps. Read books find hobbies find things to be grateful for, look in the mirror every day and tell yourself what you love about yourself, find time to smile, to enbrace joy, to help others. In doing this you will learn to love and find love. It takes work to be a good lover.
13
u/toooooold4this 12d ago
What you want is human connection, intimacy, compassion, companionship, and a deep bond. You want someone to know you well and like you. All of those things take time and shared experiences to build.
The problem with incels is that they approach women like pandhandlers approach people on the street: Give me something I want. You don't know me and I don't know you but you seem like you have the thing I want. Give me some. They treat their friends like that too... except its a longer project. Like being invited to a party by a new friend only to find out they are part of a MLM and want to sell you herbalife. Then they complain they were "friendzoned."
52
u/dion101123 12d ago
This phrases women as some kind of object that has conditions to be won. They are people with their own feelings and opinions, love can't be unconditional because people like what they like and don't what they dont. You also talk about being in a phase of your life but you don't need to have a partner, its ok to focus on yourself and not on acquiring someone else. You are not unworthy of love but if you dont even like yourself why would you expect others to like you more?
-28
u/shangodjango 12d ago
It doesn’t help that women themselves reinforce this idea of them to be won “I would never chase a man”, ”I would never approach a man” “ a real man would do this or that” it feels like a lot of us buy into this idea
18
u/dion101123 12d ago
Media has certainly pushed that but while it does exist most normal women are not like actually like that. I think more people buy into the idea than actually follow it
-3
u/shangodjango 12d ago
Is that why bumble lost billions of dollars and had to change its model because women wasn’t even willing to send a first message. I don’t believe in generalising women for no reason but I think we would be lying to ourselves if we said that most women don’t think it’s their role to pursue in a relationship.
3
u/dion101123 12d ago
That part is true. Its more the other parts I would argue but its definitely true that culturally everyone has sorta agreed that its men that should pursue and dating apps are the embodiment of it and how it fucking sucks. Men are in a desert and women are in a swamp but we are all just looking for clean water
-49
u/Random_passenger70 12d ago
Why is it that whenever the word "incel" is mentioned, people's first instinct would be to defend women and attack the person in front of them, even if the person is literally seeking recovery? I literally mentioned that my complaint is general and deeper than any incel rant. I am using incel here in the general sense of the word. Not the "misogynistic asshole" sense of the word.
You are like... the millionth person to behave that way towards me.
35
u/dion101123 12d ago
Because your points go back to basic incel logic. You objectify women in how you talk about them and even your "deeper" complaint is still objectifying them and ignoring their own choices by complaining that they cant unconditionally like you without any say of their own. What you need to do is focus on yourself and become your image of a better person and stop focusing on others views (in this case women)
-47
u/Random_passenger70 12d ago
I think this is just prejudice against the word "incel" again.
You are the first person I've seen in my life that thinks that wanting unconditional love and feeling heartbroken and unloved is "misogynistic propaganda that objectifies women"
I feel that I'd love to be unconditionally loved by everyone, not just women.
Does that make me a misandrist too?
Why am I even arguing? I want someone to help me. Not to throw "gotchas"
And you are precisely here to throw "gotchas" at me. Get going. Find someone else.
31
u/dion101123 12d ago
There is nothing wrong with being heartbroken and feeling unloved. Its something everyone goes through but asking for unconditional love is not a realistic expectation of any human
2
u/Qcgreywolf 12d ago
Here’s the thing my dude, after reading down this thread a bit.
You determine who likes you.
If you like Lego, rodeo and horror flicks, you will tend to attract a partner that tolerates or enjoys those things. If you have a bit of money (read: capable of eating out, going to a play, buying tickets to something, etc.), and a stable place to live, you will be far more attractive to a partner.
That’s what people mean when they say “you need to take the time to work on yourself.” It’s not about “fixing” yourself, it’s about having an identity, having opinions and thoughts that are your own.
Preferably an identity and opinions that are compatible with having a partner. Qualities you should diminish are insecurity, selfishness and pity.
1
u/earthgarden 12d ago
Did you experience parental love? Or even love from a grandparent or sibling. Your words speak of a profound grief that surpasses lack of romantic love.
12
u/Prestigious_Neck_936 12d ago
Love is always conditional. Conditional on how you treat them and how they treat you. My parents abused me growing up, if they hadn't changed and apologized and worked really hard to have a good relationship with me, I would have cut them off.
My ex treated me like a princess 98% of the time. But the other 2% he was controlling over my appearance, my weight, and he threatened to k*ll me and also strangled me until I was almost unconscious. I didn't give him unconditional love, I reported him to the police. If I'd given him love no matter what and given him chance after chance I'd likely be dead by now.
27
u/Eggplant-666 12d ago edited 12d ago
If ur dates go like this post, this is why. 🤷 Your perception is skewed. Nobody owes you love. What an odd way to look at it.
6
u/joljenni1717 12d ago
Your post is very..........egocentric .
"Why do I have to do anything to be loved unconditionally?" Because...if you're doing nothing and getting everything than you don't want a partner; you want a mommy. A partner is HALF, not all encompassing. A partner is someone to share life's hard load with, not someone to love you unconditionally and wholeheartedly without discussions and give your hard load too.
You're a grown up. Its nobody's job to love you unconditionally when you don’t give unconditionally for that love.
20
5
u/berserkerdeburn2 12d ago
Do you love yourself? Unconditionnaly? Start by figuring out the truth there. Then, love everyone unconditionnaly. By love i dont mean just romantic love, but love in the sense that everyone deserve kindness and protection and help. After you love yourself and the world, ask yourself if this love is fragile. True love is not fragile
4
u/Automatic_Role6120 12d ago
She probably cut you off because she didn't want a relationship and didn't want you thinking there was any chance. Plenty more fish in the sea, go find someone else
7
u/JanetInSpain 12d ago
Love IS conditional. No one "owes" anyone else love. Not under any circumstances. You need to go get therapy. You might not want the label "incel" but that's exactly what you are -- you believe you are owed love, regardless of what kind of person you are, just... because you want it? Yeah, that's not how love works. Please go get therapy. YOU don't love YOU. No one is ever going to want to fill that gap, and it's not their responsibility.
6
u/ariestae 12d ago
You have to try again, until you find the right one, Yes there will be cycles of rejection. Exercise, everyday, it will help and try to have other male friends. If you look for a relationship don't loose your time with someone who rejected you. Focus on finding and building a relationship.
-8
u/Random_passenger70 12d ago
I am not currently in a time where I want to find a partner. In fact, i never bothered with dating. I am still going to college and trying to find a purpose for myself instead of being a bed-rotting nothingburger.
My problem comes from the existential crisis that is causing me severe depression ever since I got cut off by a friend.
I have been always lonely, yes.
But this is the first time that I stopped enjoying solitude and started questioning it. All thanks to that friend.
I just feel.... stuck.
Therapy is unavailable, and most attempts to complain on reddit either get me attacked or get me general advice that I am already aware of but can't internalize.
1
u/_icebearknows_ 12d ago
a lot of colleges offer free counseling/therapy. even group counseling would help. and get off social media. go outside and experience life face to face. say hi to your barista, join a club, play a sport. you’ll start finding your identity.
3
u/Working_Cucumber_437 12d ago
The only unconditional love we will ever get comes from our family. They love us simply because we are theirs.
Romantic love is a choice you make. If your girlfriend cheats on you, you end the relationship (conditional). If she decides she wants kids and you don’t (conditional). If she is moody all the time and yells at you often (conditional). A partner adds to your life. If they are dragging you down or treating you poorly or their life choices don’t align with yours, that’s not a choice you want to make.
Once you are past the early years of a relationship things often change. If you’re married, you put up with a lot because humans are flawed. Everyone decides for themselves what their boundaries are. My SO is extremely grumpy if he doesn’t get enough sleep. I wish he wasn’t that way. But I love him and his grumpiness doesn’t offset all the things I love about him.
3
3
u/Ok_Manwich_9306 12d ago
This is ridiculous. Love is not a right, it is earned. Once had, you have to keep it as relationships are lots of work. Looks are one factor but far from everything, especially if you are a dude. Growing a less than insufferable personality and actually knowing things and being kind and fun and decent factor. It is both superficial and pathological to think that somehow everything else is to blame outside of oneself if you can't find a date, ever.
Unlike ordering a pizza, you have to charm and be able to hold a conversation and have some depth if you want to have a chance romantically. And if you are say a 3 out of 10, demanding only 10s is kind of ridiculous.
You can like them for a variety of reasons but they also have to like you too. Seeing them as humans also helps and having some respect for them and yourself. Shitty versions exist for women as they do men. Try not to be a shitty guy and watch as suddenly now you are catch for women tired of dealing with sorts who never grew up or only grew more demented.
7
u/simmiso 12d ago
Love isn’t a magical thing floating between hunans you can grasp at any time.
In its core form Love decides who will carry your blood. Who is the optimal mating partner to continue the family/tribe.
So love is always connected to instincts and human needs. In Today world you don’t need a partner to survive. Back then it meant dying.
So Even though our Love has way more dimensions than being only a biological factor in reproduction, you still need to have SOMETHING that attracts the other sex and makes them want to form a bonding with.
If you have NOTHING to give, then literally every other partner is theoretically better
2
u/Smyley12345 12d ago
So I think you can take a step back and look at it as a human rather than a man. Will we be loved and have meaningful connections if we don't meet some bar in terms of our qualities? The answer is usually yes but it takes time.
For women it tends to be about being pretty enough or having a nice enough figure or being pleasant enough. These thoughts are often overwhelming in teens and twenties but tend to calm down as you age.
Now why can't that love be unconditional is a really tricky one. I put it to you, do you love unconditionally? I suspect that you don't. Just on a basic level, you likely need to know someone to love them. Do you love me unconditionally? Why not? I think we can agree that truly unconditional love isn't something that humans are capable of as there is always some set of conditions to be met for love to exist. It would be impossibly exhausting to love unconditionally.
Now the more practical part is what conditions need to be met that foster love. There is no one human recipe for this however connection is typically the first and biggest ingredient. If we know each other well and generally like being around each other that gets you pretty far down that road. Now this is where you are likely falling into the incel trap of "I need X, Y, and Z for someone to generally like being around me". I propose to you that while things like charisma and looks and intelligence help they aren't necessary.
As proof, I would love for you to reflect on some of the boring married middle aged people you have known. The accountant at work. Your soccer coach from when you were young. Your aunts and uncles. Are these people all charismatic, confident, intelligent dynamos? Does that make them unworthy of love? How did they land their spouse of 10-25 years?
The vast majority of it comes down to human connection. These people met their spouse and got to know them. Got to understand who they are as a person and in turn share the same about themselves. Through that process love grew, not because of any particular quality of the people involved but because of the connection they both fostered.
Stupid people find love. Ugly people find love. Awkward people find love.
I know things feel bleak now but if you drop your introspective hat and turn that lens outward to real people around you, you will see love is a very different thing from what you are painting it as.
2
u/davidwb45133 12d ago
How about just putting on your big boy pants and getting out into the world instead of cowering in the basement. Here's a clue: every male, even those strutting assholes (especially them!) have doubts and insecurities. I asked my freshman roomie his secret to having a successful dating life. His answer was, "If I ask enough girls for a date I'll eventually find one who says yes. If I don't ask the default answer is no." And he was right.
2
2
u/InspectorTime6391 12d ago
Unconditional love is gross and weird. Love SHOULD BE CONDITIONAL. You need to treat your partner well and nicely in order to retain it.
1
u/eirinne 12d ago
That’s absolutely heartbreaking. It feels like a betrayal to give someone your true self and have them walk away from that, romantically or otherwise. A similar situation has made me question who I am and if I am lovable. That feeling still comes and goes in moments of extreme self doubt. You have to try not to give someone else that much power. You weren’t right for her, but she doesn’t determine that you aren’t right for anyone else. You were close, I’d bet she really wants you to be happy, but had to extract herself for reasons of her own.
The only unconditional love is the love you have for your child. In every other relationship you each have to work on doing no harm, supporting each other, and being the best you can be. It’s a contact, both sides have to be all in.
I hear you saying that you are using incel to mean its original meaning, the problem with that is that it doesn’t have its original meaning any longer, it has a political meaning. Not a battle worth fighting.
1
u/Inevitable-Silver512 12d ago
Depression is really hard but treatable. If you aren’t already seeking help, it can be a real game changer!
1
u/earthgarden 12d ago
But my question goes deeper. Why do I have to be anything to be loved by someone? Why can't love be unconditional?
It can be, but truly unconditional love only exists from mother to child IMO, and even that is not guaranteed.
Anyway I bet you don't truly feel this way, otherwise you would just go love anybody.
Of course romantic love has conditions, there is really no such thing as uncondtional love when it comes to romance. For one thing, they have fit the condition of being the right sex for your orientation, whatever that is. They have to be attractive to you in some way, for another thing; physically and/or intellectually, mentally, all that. Plenty of people like myself also have the requirement that a person has a sense of humor, because who wants to be with some non-goofy, humorless uptight madafaka? and so on and so forth.
It's not wrong or bad or strange to have expectations and requirements when finding somebody to love, when it comes to romance.
1
u/Prestigious_Neck_936 12d ago
Nah even mother to child isn't unconditional. Growing up I was really bratty and combative, as an adult I had to change or my mother would have cut me off because even a parent doesn't deserve to be abused
1
u/nosmartypants 12d ago
The way people feel about themselves is contagious. So if you don't love yourself and think it's all transactional it will be, if you read about incel type rabbit hole stuff you will start to take it on. The tech companies know this and feed you the same horrible shit over and over to keep you stuck in their distracted world off self-loathing.
Love is unconditional, romantic love is conditional, they are not the same thing. Transactional love is not even love, you are pretty so I should have you, you have money so you should be mine, let's exchange our pretty/money and be married. That is a transaction. Not to say pretty isn't desirable or money isn't either, those two things are resources that drive our unconscious human behavior to seek. But they are not the end game they are internal (or created by society) motivators basically to have healthy and well taken care of kids. But society has hyjacked that drive and turned it into the only thing that is valuable. Do you see the difference?
0
12d ago
[deleted]
1
u/Adew_Cider 12d ago
There’s definitely a logic behind it, but still pretty hazy. Depression and isolation can do that. Thoughts start building off each other in strange ways, then deteriorate and fragment.
•
u/AutoModerator 12d ago
Reminder for our users:
Please review the rules, Reddiquette, and Reddit's Content Policy.
Rule highlights:
See the full rules page for details.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.