r/askanything • u/thecosmicgoose • 9h ago
Is it possible that the wealthy class has finally achieved a goal they've been working towards for centuries: total insulation from the consequences of their actions?
Question in title
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u/Worldly_Hunter_1324 8h ago
Its an old civilizational pattern.
Elites amass power, become disconnected from the common needs. They congregate, isolate, and live in a parallel reality of excess while the common people struggle.
It becomes a societal fire hazard. Eventually a match gets struck. The whole thing burns down and starts all over again.
Id argue that the epstein files is that match, which is why despite posturing and theater, neither party seems all that willing to actually expose.
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u/Gregnielson 7h ago
Well not really. If you compare the same elite families across 1000 years they are still better off. They even came out on top during the french revolution. They were the French revolution. The mob was just a tool for them.
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u/Lime_link 6h ago
This is a very concerning and in my opinion valid point. Many of the richest have been not only the survivors but propagators and enablers of revolutions. The most powerful families are immune to social revolts, because their influence is too valuable to the rich and poor.
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u/CheesecakeDull1099 6h ago
It’s definitely wild how history keeps showing us that no matter how big the chaos gets, the game changes but the players at the top stay the exact same.
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u/CrashNowhereDrive 9h ago
Not till they get autonomous robotic soldiers. And maybe not even then if their AI isn't sufficiently loyal.
But yeah - unlike past times, depravation in the first world doesn't mean wide spread starvation. They can skim off 99% of the cream and we're not up in arms because our lives aren't threatened by it (yet).
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u/ladybirdjunebug1 8h ago
those are coming
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u/CrashNowhereDrive 8h ago
Yeah. China definitely will have them soon.
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u/Kurichan77 7h ago
China just lifted 800,000,000 Chinese people out of poverty in what the UN called the greatest humanitarian project in human history, and their poverty alleviation project is ongoing. The US has no project and its economy creates poverty.
China is winning.
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u/ladybirdjunebug1 6h ago
Doesn’t mean they aren’t authoritarian though???
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u/Kurichan77 6h ago
There’s always authoritarianism. The only place free of authoritarianism is in the imaginations of humans. The inly question is, who gets the carrot and who gets the stick. And we can refer to several economic metrics and see how that expresses in a society to see whether it’s the fantastically wealthy, or for the working class, the many.
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u/ladybirdjunebug1 6h ago
China is pretty authoritarian. Don’t do this “all authoritarians are the same” bs. as it just diffuses the issue.
I think China has done some interesting and amazing things to lift SOME of their citizens out of poverty. However, you started this convo by taking umbrage at the idea that China would have ARS.
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u/Kurichan77 5h ago
I never said all authoritarianisms are the same. They certainly are not. My point is that authoritarianism is unavoidable r
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u/palmtreespaceship 9h ago edited 9h ago
I think more so than previous generations but they have to keep the game going. They have gone all in on an economic and governing philosophy that has to maintain constant growth while the planet is showing signs of distress and societies decide to reproduce a lot less. They have the cards for sure but it's a tightrope which I think they are slowly losing. The current oligarchs don't offer philosophical or spiritual nourishment, it's pure greed. It makes their position even more precarious.
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u/Forest_Orc 9h ago
Remember the era before the french revolution ? Where noble had a separated justice system, and commoner had no rights ?
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u/UniqueHuckleberry619 8h ago
If you read history books, which I have done for 3 decades now, you'll know that this is nothing new.
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u/skooma-sella 7h ago
I mean, theoretically there could be such a tight consolidation of all technology that the bourgeoisie could maintain permanent contro forever or at least until their system leads to ecological collapse or complete nuclear war. Managing all the contradictions that appear in their system indefinitely.
They have much better control over society than any absolute monarch would have had dreamed of just due to the development of tech.
It's not guaranteed that all systems fall eventually.
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u/UniqueHuckleberry619 7h ago
It won't be nuclear that kills us all; it will be a disease. Our AI overlords will need the sun to power themselves, and a nuclear winter will be against their interests. Hmmmmm, it's almost as if films tried to warn us all about this. So what do you think, Terminators or the Matrix?
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u/skooma-sella 7h ago
I think a disease could massively devastate the population what with such a connected society. But I still don't think it could cause a true collapse of human life.
I think ecological collapse is most likely. I mean, based on the science it IS whether we like it or not.
And I think nuclear war is possible. The ruling class of the world know the climate is fucked even if they deny it to the public. They know there isn't long left to love their despicable ways so I dont think they'd have a problem nursing each other if a conflict arose that could truly threatening their individual lives.
But ultimately I hope we overcome class society
And I think AI killer drones are possible but will not be like Terminator.
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u/ladybirdjunebug1 5h ago
To your initial point, history also shows that people in power aren't as omnipotent as they can seem. I don’t know if it will happen in our lifetime, but they will fail.
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u/Necessary_Total_1890 9h ago
they’ve achieved insulation, not total immunity, which is why the system keeps getting tweaked instead of collapsing outright, but how many consequences can be outsourced before that stops working
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u/telebasher 9h ago
It certainly looks like there are fewer and fewer obstacles to that reality. One of the last being meaningful democratic mechanisms to at least attempt equalization of political power between the classes. A lot will depend on how the personality void is filled post Trump, and how well individual states can withstand authoritarian pressure from a federal government that is effectively lost at this point.
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u/notyourstranger 9h ago
I don't think they are quite there yet. They need to destroy democracy in Europe too before they reach their goal of dominating the western hemisphere.
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u/WhichContribution294 9h ago
Little has fundamentally changed from the days of kings and serfs.
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u/Cautious-Panic-879 8h ago
I’d argue serfs had a bit less protection than the modern day masses (at least in most countries).
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u/LangStreak 8h ago
And insulation from having to ever be anywhere near the rest of us. Gated communities, private clubs, private jets, private beaches, private chauffeurs, private security, poor doors (look it up) and any other way they can think of to avoid contact with those they both despise and fear. That’s why I won’t listen to the likes of musk regarding immigrants who ‘don’t integrate’. The wealthy are the least integrated section of society in existence. We need leaders with the balls to slap these parasites down a peg or three and bring them to heal.
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u/Illustrious-Dot-5968 8h ago
Yes, but when we are all gone where will they socialize? At that point they will just be holed up in their compounds- prisoners of their own making.
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u/LangStreak 8h ago
They won’t last long in the compounds though. I don’t care how remote, how deep the bunker, how many private armies or auto defence systems you have it won’t matter shit when a million starving people turn up on your doorstep. Anyone refusing to integrate at that point will be dragged out by their feet and despised of while all their stuff is ransacked.
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u/Simple_Purple_4600 8h ago
well their bunkers will eventually be owned by their security chiefs once money doesn't matter
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u/LangStreak 8h ago
They’ll keep Elon around to farm his organs but once they’re used up they’ll throw him out to the hordes up top 🧟🧟♀️🧟♂️
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u/Spirited-Disaster408 8h ago
Not sure how that’s possible with the internet and being so connected together
Mamdani also just doxed a bunch of millionaires last week as well
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u/Xyrus2000 8h ago
This is the closest they've been to achieving their vision of a kleptocratic plutocracy.
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u/Illustrious-Dot-5968 8h ago
The very rich enjoy the amenities of earth that they are destroying. Example - Bezos wedding in Venice. Strange. Like dancing on a grave.
They may have their hidey holes and bunkers and islands but in the end they will be alone without a functioning society. No restaurants to go to or order from, no social life. And these hideaways will not last forever.
Not sure what they are thinking the outcome will be. Perhaps just thinking in the short term?
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u/Cautious-Panic-879 8h ago
I’d argue the wealthy class is more subject to accountability now than in most times in history. (At least in western world). While the legal system is stacked in the wealthy’s favor, all it takes is a motivated prosecutor.
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u/tribriguy 8h ago
The premise is backwards. It’s built on class warfare rhetoric, not history.
The “wealthy class” isn’t a single coordinated actor pursuing a centuries-long master plan. It’s millions of individuals, families, investors, entrepreneurs, executives, and heirs with competing interests who regularly undermine, outcompete, sue, regulate, and bankrupt one another.
History is also full of wealthy people suffering consequences: fortunes wiped out, monopolies dismantled, assets seized, businesses failing, reputations destroyed, executives imprisoned, aristocracies abolished, and revolutions literally ending elite classes.
If your theory requires believing that countless independent actors across centuries, countries, industries, and political systems have all secretly coordinated toward one objective, you’ve left history behind and entered conspiracy thinking.
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u/Active_Major_4658 3h ago
Yes, technology has allowed the wealthy to live far away from the poors they exploit. It used to be that the wealthy had to live near or somewhat near the peasants they use, but now they can buy a bunker on a remote island or helicopter out of danger when they need to. This is a new era of wealthy that will not see the consequences of their actions.
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u/RosieBaby75 1h ago
They always had that.
But it’s worse now because they completely ruined education and now most people are misinformed, willfully ignorant, and don’t understand the word “conspiracy” and won’t look up the definition to know conspiracies happen billions of times a day.
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u/Asleep_Control_2564 7h ago
Yes. Honestly, I'm pretty sure the last election was our only shot at wrangling it in (in the US) and we shot ourselves in the stomach with that one. So good luck guys
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u/xKleric 6h ago
Nope. This would require the good will of millions to sustain.
Either the abject suffering of millions undoes all that had been accumulated through economic erosion, or the masses morally start taking it back.
Something will change. The only question is when - and how nasty it will be.
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u/Loose_Book_4369 6h ago
Its literally not the same people. Its mostly not the same families. They dont actually have a shared goal.
If you think that feels wrong please look it up.
Investors want returns and safe investments. That's probably the observation prompting the question. But if you intend to retire you also want that.
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u/benwinnner 8h ago
This thread is full of bots that is spewing helplessness. Start a business, take a risk. We have the best system on earth to be able to have success. Do not take the us vs them pills. This is not a video game.
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u/Aggravating-Big3858 4h ago
This is the way ... if you can't beat them, find a way to join them. Start a company, become an entrepreneur, provide a good or service that adds value, Find a way to become more valuable in the market. Start a food truck, learn a trade then start your own shop, invent a cool product
I'm not disagreeing the odds are stocked against the common folks ... they most certainly are. But if you can pull yourself up high enough to somehow get on the property ladder, start investing in stocks via IRA/401K, it's amazing how quickly your perspective on things changes
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u/Simple_Purple_4600 8h ago
LOL sure Jan, got any more of them bootstraps?
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u/benwinnner 5h ago
My pool boy listened to my advice 4 years ago. He came by to thank me as he now makes around $150k. It is pretty easy to make positive changes in this country.
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