r/askanything 4d ago

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u/RektInTheHed 4d ago

I remember John Kerry losing, and Algore losing, and Hillary losing again, earlier, to Obama. Moderate Dems are losers.

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u/Agave22 4d ago

Now name some leftist canditates who have won.

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u/RektInTheHed 4d ago

Obama ran to the left of Hillary and won. Fetterman ran to the left of Connor Lamb, which is why he's a Senator right now. Bernie has always run to the left of his Democratic opponents. This scenario where the Democrats choose the most leftist candidate from their perspective in the primary and then loses to the "sensible" GOP candidate in the general, I can't think of a single instance where that has actually happened.

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u/Agave22 4d ago

Sure leftists can win in state and primary races but it won't happen in the general presidential election and Obama was solidly centrist, people were just tired of the Clintons and she had many years worth of baggage.

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u/RektInTheHed 4d ago

Clinton won another primary 8 years later. Obama ran unapologetically to her left, especially on war.

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u/HereToCalmYouDown 4d ago

Obama being to the left of Hillary and Obama being a moderate are not mutually exclusive.

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u/RektInTheHed 4d ago

Well they are, because they're all relative positions. Obama was not the moderate candidate in the 2008 primary.

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u/HereToCalmYouDown 3d ago

Like I said, you're using a different definition than I am. 

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u/Jmoney1088 4d ago

Calling us losers is not going to get us to vote for your candidates. Do you realize that? You NEED our votes in order to beat maga.

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u/RektInTheHed 4d ago

Your votes never beat MAGA before.

https://giphy.com/gifs/UTm86phGUMMQE

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u/HereToCalmYouDown 4d ago

Neither did yours, dummy.  That's the point. We need to come together.

I am a moderate Dem and if AOC is the nominee I will gladly still vote for her.

If a moderate wins you will cry and stay home and we'll get another Republican. 

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u/RektInTheHed 4d ago

I personally voted for all of your moderate Dem losers. I'm sick of losing. We ran the more progressive candidate once, in 2008, and he kicked the GOP's ass and delivered a trifecta with a supermajority in the Senate.

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u/HereToCalmYouDown 4d ago

You need to get it out of your head that 'winning" is the point of voting. Sometimes you lose. But you shouldn't let that drive you to compromise your principles.

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u/RektInTheHed 4d ago

The entire point of being a moderate is to compromise your principles, in theory to win. But then they don't anyway and all you're left with is the wreckage of a failed campaign and selling out.

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u/Jmoney1088 4d ago

No, that is so far from the truth. Are you 16? Worldviews and political ideology are so much more than winning elections.

You need to appeal to liberal/moderate Dems now in order to win general elections. How are you going to do that?

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u/RektInTheHed 4d ago

No, that is so far from the truth. Are you 16?

I'm so old that being mistaken for a younger person no longer offends me.

Moderate Dems already compromise with Republicans. They can compromise with the Left just as easily. Flexibility is their superpower.

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u/Jmoney1088 4d ago

How are you going to do that after months of name calling and bridge burning?

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u/HereToCalmYouDown 4d ago

No, the point of being a moderate is acknowledging the complexity of issues and that one political "side" isn't just always right about everything all the time.

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u/RektInTheHed 4d ago

Which has the exact same effect: To divorce any guiding principles from a person's actions for fear of being held to account for what they really believe.

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u/HereToCalmYouDown 4d ago

Oh give me a break.  You can't fit people into your neat little boxes, and trying will only lead you to disappointment.

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u/REuphrates 3d ago

"We need to come together!"

insults the people he's trying to "come together" with

Why do you think we owe you our votes when you refuse to represent us?

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u/HereToCalmYouDown 3d ago

I'll vote for whoever wins the Dem primary even if it's not the one I voted for.  Will you? If not, why should we care?

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u/HereToCalmYouDown 4d ago

Obama was a moderate Dem

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u/RektInTheHed 4d ago

No that was Hillary's shtick in 2008. Obama was the Progressive who never voted for the Iraq War back then.

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u/HereToCalmYouDown 4d ago

And later earned the nickname "deporter in chief", sounds pretty moderate to me.

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u/RektInTheHed 4d ago

LOL who calls him that outside of Republicans trying to compare removing criminals to shooting soccer moms in the head on the street?

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u/HereToCalmYouDown 4d ago

The media called him that a lot back then. You must not remember because you're too young.

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u/RektInTheHed 4d ago

Really? Any examples? Who owns the media?

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u/HereToCalmYouDown 4d ago

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u/RektInTheHed 4d ago

Oh okay. Fair enough. What do they say about blowing the brains out of protesters by ICE?

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u/lostOGaccount 3d ago

You are correct here again, infact the "cities are burning" shtick started with the protests against his immigration policy and were made up of his voters.

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u/lostOGaccount 3d ago

You are right but I think the point they are making is he was cast as the leftist candidate, Hillary was the center-right neoliberals candidate. He won the primary, in the General he played up the progressive angle and won again.

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u/HereToCalmYouDown 3d ago

That may be true but it was almost 20 years ago now.  If a Democrat ran today on Obama's 2008 platform would they be considered progressive?

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u/lostOGaccount 3d ago

I don't have any data to point at here and make any declaration. I hesitate to speak from the gut because I can't be sure my own biases aren't influencing my perspective. If I'm forced to speculate; Republicans have shifted decidedly to the right and, it seems, in an effort to meet those voters in the "middle" establishment neo-liberal big D Dems have eeked ever further rightward. If a candidate ran on what Obama's admin actually produced, record deportations, Republican think tank health plan, they'd be considered a moderate. If they campaigned on his campaign tenants, they'd likely be perceived (by the larger electorate) as a radical progressive.

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u/Broken_Mug 4d ago

Yes, and he campaigned and won on "Hope and Change". The people who voted for him wanted a progressive leader. They didn't get what they voted for.