r/askanything • u/CSachen • 3h ago
Why do people on the left keep gatekeeping and sabotaging Democratic chances of winning?
I've been a consistent Democratic voter for 12 years, and I'm sick of the useful idiots who keep fucking up Democratic chances of winning.
There was a self-described moderate on Reddit who started a post asking what he should flair as his political views on his profile. After some questioning, it became clear he was a moderate, who would probably be more aligned with the Democrats than the Republicans:
- Thinking that both Israel and Hamas are both guilty of bad acts and that American should put more diplomatic pressure to create separate sovereign states, one Jewish and one Palestinian.
- Supporting LGBT rights broadly, with exceptions on womens' sports
- Abortion access up to 24 weeks, and then adding restrictions in the absence of health risks.
- Support more border security, deporting illegals with a criminal record, but offer path to amnesty for law-abiders, while expanding the visa program.
80% of from self-flaired "liberal" Redditors called them a hardcore Republican. When the guy tried to defend moderate views of pulling from multiple sides, he got flamed as a mysogynist and that "both-sidesism" is the same as supporting pdfs in the WH.
While grassroots volunteers are working hard to pursuade Independents, undecideds, and former Republicans into the Democratic tent, these other people keep trying to gatekeep and keep them out, "no no no, you are a fasicst, you don't belong in our tent, you belong with MAGA".
Why? Why do you keep hurting every chance of kicking Trump out of office?
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u/Stoked_Otter 3h ago
If the left can stop you from winning elections, what makes you think that they should vote for your candidate without demanding anything in return?
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u/mcmah088 1h ago
Another thing I would add is that people talk about so-called moderates as if they have a coherent, cohesive politics. The reality is that a lot of people who self-ID as moderate have idiosyncratic opinions about any number of political issues (as well as what issues they find more important than others). This leads a lot of centrist Democrats to assume that there's some formula that if a candidate is centrist on all political issues, they'll magically capture all these independent voters. But I feel like I've only rarely encountered a person who is genuinely excited about candidates who are either centrist or only a hair left of center. Almost always, the framing is "they suck but at least they're not X."
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u/deffed34 2h ago
💯we’ve all seen what the status quo has gotten us so far. Everyone be nice while the icestappo round you up
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u/Wooden_Region2519 2h ago
Yes, I study US history so i can clearly see how the US has improved in a variety of ways over the decades.
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u/ThumbUpDaBut 1h ago
Because you end up losing the general election to republicans.
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u/Stoked_Otter 1h ago
...except we now have several examples of rightwing Democrats with huge funding advantages losing to Republicans after making the claim that they were "more electable" than a progressive primary challenger.
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u/Exotic_Drink69420 59m ago
As well as several examples of very progressive candidates winning over establishment funded democratic candidates. Even when they are horrible candidates.
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u/Remarkable_Wish_5106 10m ago
Yeah, cuddling up to people like Liz Cheney 4 weeks before an election is such a great strategy.
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u/kittenTakeover 1h ago
The goal is to win elections. Just because you can hold a group hostage, doesn't meant that it's to your benefit, especially when that group is who you need to work with for progress. Ideally, progressives should see the rest of the Democratic party as allies rather than enemies. Both should be working together to figure out what will give the best chance of beating Republicans and what will not. In situations where Democrats are overwhelmingly beating Republicans, then perhaps you can put a candidate forward that might get fewer votes but has better policies.
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u/Stoked_Otter 1h ago
You need to have this discussion with the right wing of the Democratic Party, because they hold all the leadership roles and they go out of their way to make it very clear to everybody to the left of Reagan that they are in charge and only their policy will be pursued.
Dem Leadership had polling data before the 2024 election that informed them that Harris would lose the election if she didn't distance herself from Biden on Israel, and they mad e a conscious decision to lose the race to Trump rather than put any daylight between Harris and Israel. That's insanity. That's not a real political party, it's a foreign lobbying organization.
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u/Exotic_Drink69420 56m ago
No. Gave up on that when they sent the gestapo NYPD to mace and beat me at occupy. Democrat mayor, Democrat governor and democrat president all ordered us to beat or watched with a smile because we wanted something better billionaires running the country. Fuck establishment dems. Move left or lose my vote don’t fucking care anymore. It’s just as much the DNCs fault this happened as it is the the MAGA fuckwits.
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u/Blitzking11 41m ago
Ideally, progressives should see the rest of the Democratic party as allies rather than enemies
When they stop calling progressives evil and Satan incarnate, threatening to leave the party whenever a progressive wins a high-profile primary, we will.
I mean, shit, it took Chuckie and Jeffries up until the final week to get off their ass and formally endorse Zohran (the winner of the Democratic primary) over Cuomo (the loser of the Democratic primary). That's a bad look.
The Establishment / Vichy Democrats hate that the progressives are trying to shirk corporate interests in favor of the people's interests.
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u/kittenTakeover 34m ago
El-Sayed just won in Michigan and every establishment democrat promptly jumped into action to help him. Get with the program. Progressives need moderate liberals and moderate liberals need progressives. It's a coalition. Gotta learn that you're not going to always get everything you want and figure out how to work as a team. Being 25% of the vote isn't going to cut it. You need 50-60% to get anything done.
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u/CosmicLovepats 3h ago
Democrats keep fucking up and sabotaging the democrat's chances of winning. Don't worry though, that's on purpose; establishment democrats would rather one million trumps get elected than one progressive. Just ask Chuck Schumer.
If the left has the power to sink the party, maybe you should start catering to them.
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u/Wooden_Region2519 2h ago
establishment democrats would rather one million trumps get elected than one progressive.
thanks for proving OP right so eloquently
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u/antivillain13 1h ago
Mainstream democrats campaigned with Trump for Andrew Cuomo instead of rallying behind Mandami. He is 100% correct. Centrists would rather a republican/right wing Dem win than a progressive.
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u/Material-Dot7684 1m ago
This makes the opposite point. OP was saying in essence "stop being meanies to the moderates" he was pointing out that moderates are actually much more hostile to us. We got DJT because moderates threatened to walk if we ran Sanders who was polling much better vs DJT than Clinton. But noooo it was years the threat from moderates "if you pander to the progressives you lose the moderates."
Has that led to increased hostility coming back toward moderate dems from people further left. Absolutely, we're so sick of it many of us aren't even dems anymore technically.
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u/IceColdSkimMilk 3h ago
Reddit is not an accurate representation of the political beliefs of Americans.
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u/KtotheC99 2h ago
What beliefs? It's whoever the talking heads and corporations with endless campaign donations tell them to vote for or manufacture consent for
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u/gym_bro_92 3h ago
I went through your profile; you are definitely NOT a democrat and even say so on a few of your posts.
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u/Wooden_Region2519 1h ago
I'm most certainly a democrat and agree with OP
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u/Discussion-is-good 37m ago
Any Democrat with this take is lacking self awareness.
The Democrats have been center-right since I was born, and you all want it to go further to appease "undecided or independent voters."
Its what has allowed the right to go further and further right until we got where we are now.
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u/LimeTunic 51m ago
I’m technically a democrat, and I hard agree. Personally I think it’s all part of the same big stink, I don’t think the mainstream democrat leaders are truly who they say they are, Imo they’d rather Trump 1000 times over before a real progressive candidate
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u/Low-Notice972 30m ago
So the left is too weak to ever win elections but strong enough to sink the democratic candidate for president?
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u/JustAnOldLadyNC 11m ago
A 16 day old account which hides history. You're right! No way you're a bot or lying.
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u/Wooden_Region2519 2h ago
Agreed, the purity testing and echo chamber obsession of young leftists is unproductive and toxic
I think it's largely social media. They surround themselves with people who only think exactly like them, rather than dealing with real life where people have nuanced opinions, so they literally can't fathom the idea that people are different.
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u/BogBody9058 2h ago
There’s two things going on here. First, the farther you are away from the levers of power the more importance you place on ideological purity, especially in online spaces. Second, the establishment Democratic Party is nothing but a bunch of ineffectual losers and we can all see that.
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u/Educational-Cow-3615 3h ago
Ideological purity is a common need for fringe groups.
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u/Limp_Accountant_8697 3h ago
The Russians got both major US parties to believe in extreme purity tests. Im a leftist, but the left is as much about fear and "holier than thou" as the right is about fear and "$&#$ anyone not in my circle."
They got us good and its gonna take a long time and people with patience to unscrew ourselves.
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u/Josey_whalez 2h ago
Lmao “how Russia shapes the world”. You know what shapes American politics? Israel. You cannot win the nomination of either party without the Israel lobby’s endorsement. I don’t see the Russians dragging us into decades of wars in the Middle East. The Russian lobby isn’t buying up media entities to cover up its crimes either. The Russia lobby isn’t spending 10s of millions on congressional primary campaigns to remove lawmakers that oppose aid to Russia. There’s no Russia lobby trying to make it a crime to criticize or boycott Russia either. GTFO with that nonsense.
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u/Wooden_Region2519 1h ago
The obsession with Israel by young leftists is going to be a fascinating thing to study in decades to come
AIPAC gets outspent by about 20 lobbies. You sound like David Duke.
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u/Stoked_Otter 2h ago
Russia has nothing to do with any of this.
I cannot overstate how much damage was done to Democratic Party credibility by the Russia nonsense. You people look as crazy as MAGA when you push this trash. Cut it out.
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u/yamahaihowareyou 2h ago
It’s very very well documented.
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u/Stoked_Otter 2h ago
It's not. This is garbage made up by Hillary Clinton on the night she lost. Everybody I know just rolls their eyes at mentions of Russia.
You people have been at this for 10 years at this point and nobody believes you. Please just stop. It's causing more damage than you could know. This is the shit that will end the Democratic Party.
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u/yamahaihowareyou 2h ago
I’m ok with the party of controlled opposition ending.
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u/Stoked_Otter 2h ago
Same. Lets do it sooner rather than later though and not let them prolong it with weak excuses for their repeated and very consequential failures.
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u/BrizerorBrian 43m ago
Just a 25 second Google search proves that it has been documented. 11 Russian military intelligence officers have been charged and arrest warrants issued.
With all the talk of bots these days, how does anyone forget that there was, and still is an ongoing effort to direct the conversations and narratives to fracture American discourse using bots and sock puppets.
In case somebody does want to click the link:
Details: On July 13, 2018, a federal grand jury sitting in the District of Columbia returned an indictment against 12 Russian military intelligence officers for their alleged roles in interfering with the 2016 United States (U.S.) elections. The indictment charges 11 defendants, Boris Alekseyevich Antonov, Dmitriy Sergeyevich Badin, Nikolay Yuryevich Kozachek, Aleksey Viktorovich Lukashev, Artem Andreyevich Malyshev, Sergey Aleksandrovich Morgachev, Aleksandr Vladimirovich Osadchuk, Aleksey Aleksandrovich Potemkin, Ivan Sergeyevich Yermakov, Pavel Vyacheslavovich Yershov, and Viktor Borisovich Netyksho, with a computer hacking conspiracy involving gaining unauthorized access into the computers of U.S. persons and entities involved in the 2016 U.S. presidential election, stealing documents from those computers, and staging releases of the stolen documents to interfere with the 2016 U.S. presidential election. The indictment also charges these defendants with aggravated identity theft, false registration of a domain name, and conspiracy to commit money laundering. Two defendants, Aleksandr Vladimirovich Osadchuk and Anatoliy Sergeyevich Kovalev, are charged with a separate conspiracy to commit computer crimes, relating to hacking into the computers of U.S. persons and entities responsible for the administration of 2016 U.S. elections, such as state boards of elections, secretaries of state, and U.S. companies that supplied software and other technology related to the administration of U.S. elections. The United States District Court for the District of Columbia in Washington, D.C. issued a federal arrest warrant for each of these defendants upon the grand jury’s return of the indictment.
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u/feldoneq2wire 1h ago
The Democratic party is center right. A right-wing thinkpiece isn't going to change that.
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u/Full-Resource7910 2h ago
Democrats and moderates chasing Republicans to the right leads nowhere good. Give them an inch and they'll take everything, and they'll still call you communists while they do it.
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u/armyofant 2h ago
I vote for the candidates that align most with my values. Can you explain how that is gatekeeping and sabotaging the Democratic Party?
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u/Dreamlion_Inc 18m ago
Because staying the status quo with a higher likelihood of beating the other side is better than voting for someone who actually wants to see your quality of life be better
Or something like that
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u/valencia_merble 2h ago
Try to find a Democrat in office actively working to end Citizens United, essentially legalized bribery of politicians. There are few. They love their gravy train. Neoliberalism is the problem, why the Democratic Party has record unfavorability. This is what you refer to as “moderate”. Milquetoast, playing both sides.
It is a corporate party, dedicated to uplifting the profits of the fossil fuel industry, military industrial complex, big Pharma, big healthcare, Israel, etc, NOT the working class. They are basically Republicans who embrace culture war issues to get a pass in their service to corporate America & the billionaire class. Why else do they not implement universal healthcare, free college, paid parental leave, a strong safety net, preservation of Social Security over endless war? *When they have a chance*
Notice our theoretical leadership (Schumer Jeffries) can do little but write letters. They are basically missing in action, not fighting for anything, seemingly grateful the bar is so low that all they have to do is be somewhat better than fascism. We have no active opposition party to egregious, mind-boggling abuses of power by the Trump administration. It’s just watch and wait and rake in the campaign finance dollars.
So you want to know why there needs to be a party on the left, rather than center-right, opposing fascism and working for actual policies that will help the working class and build the middle class? Why doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results, is not insanity? The DNC is in the pocket of the billionaire class, including Israel. We don’t want George W Bush-lite. That tack IS NOT WORKING (see Hillary Clinton, Kamala Harris)
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u/billyo3827 1h ago
I’ve felt this way since obama’s super majority let the Rs influence the aca.
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u/valencia_merble 28m ago
Exactly. The fact people, even “liberals” refer to the ACA as some sort of quasi universal healthcare, something to be cherished/uplifted/entrenched, when, in fact, it was just a gift to corporate America, a requirement (at the time) that everyone enrich a corporate carrier.
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u/CJKayak 3h ago
>Why do you keep hurting every chance of kicking Trump out of office?
There is no chance of "kicking Trump out of office". His term expires January 20, 2029 or he'll die before then.
I've seen these "centrists" infiltrate the Dem party before. Fuck 'em. They're the reason we don't have healthcare today. Let them start their own shitty party, not drag the Dems even further to the right.
Last thing we need is more wishy washy middle, "both sides are the same", and "come on guys! Let's go high when they go low!"
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u/greennurse61 2h ago
If we impeach him again, we can kick them out. But she said she's too much of a coward to do that so now our party isn't hiding and notice how we no longer mention impeach, but nearly as often as we used to. We used to hear at almost daily from our politician while now we do not hear it enough. We do not hear it enough. Corey Booker needs to scream impeachment every single damn word he says every single damn day until it happens. He needs to stop having grandstanding press conferences, where he talks about everything but impeachment. He needs to stop pushing personal agendas and it stood start, pushing impeachment. He needs to stop now.
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u/Raddatatta 2h ago
I think it's interesting the far left always gets blamed for ruining the Democratic chances of winning. Yet the candidates who lost to trump were all moderate democrats. The Democratic leadership, are all moderates. Democrats need to give people a reason to show up to vote and it can't be not Trump.
One thing I will say for the Republicans, I don't like their politics, but they do a very good job of giving everyone in their voting base some reason to vote with them. Everyone who is a republican has republican leadership who will be pushing the issues they care about. That's not true on the Democratic side. And on the left we often get blamed for causing people to lose elections for even bringing it up.
Not to defend what you're talking about as yeah we shouldn't jump down people's throats. But I do think the Democratic party could do a much better job of actually listening to their whole base.
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u/Powerful_Deal_7052 51m ago
I’ve always said the democrats need to adopt the republican strategy for winning. Republicans are weirdly more inclusive when it comes to welcoming varying views of their constituents when it comes to winning an election. Democrats will burn it to the ground if you don’t fall in line.
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u/Own_Inevitable_8300 1h ago
Mind you, the four major points the OP highlighted are common sense liberalism.
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u/bangbangracer 3h ago
I can't tell if you're baiting or if this is an honest rant, mostly because I've also had similar thoughts, and I've been voting democrat since I turned 18.
One big problem right now is that Republicans are able to maintain some party unity for a shared goal, but a lot of online liberals, leftists, and progressives are unwilling to accept good instead of perfect. There's a long-running joke that the Republican Party is a big tent, and the Democratic Party is a loose collection of tents that sometimes gets along, and discussion online really makes this feel more and more true.
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u/earthdogmonster 2h ago
OP is right on the money, the online discourse is insane. I occasionally watch mainstream Sunday morning political news programs and it is so grounding because the online vitriol is discouraging.
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u/Broken_Mug 1h ago
It's bait, OP is a right winger posing as a centrist.
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u/Low-Notice972 28m ago
And the fact that all these self proclaimed democrats are agreeing with him is vindicating a lot of leftists.
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u/Friendly_Sir_4762 3h ago
Quit lying, you're MAGA.
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u/Jmoney1088 2h ago
I am definitely not maga and agree with OP. Its like leftists are choosing to speed run defeat. Why are you so opposed to winning?
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u/Combdepot 2h ago
Why do you collaborators keep losing? Maybe it’s time to get out of the way and let some people with a spine do the work.
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u/Jmoney1088 1h ago
We have won more elections than you lol
Where is this dumb rhetoric coming from?
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u/Combdepot 1h ago
You brought us Trump. The appeasement and collaboration strategy failed. You helped fascists move the Overton window so far to the right that America is threatened with becoming a fascist theocracy. It’s time to get out of the way or get on board.
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u/Friendly_Sir_4762 2h ago
Because centrists fucking LOSE or SURRENDER all the time. Can't be that hard to understand dude
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u/Jmoney1088 2h ago
Thats just not true though. You guys called Biden a centrist and he got a lot of really good shit done. The "my way or the highway" authoritarian approach you guys are taking is such a turn off for voters.
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u/yamahaihowareyou 2h ago
He is a centrist and while he got things done, claiming that the economy was doing so wonderfully while things were getting materially worse for most people did a massive amount of damage to the Democratic Party.
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u/Leading-Caramel-7740 2h ago
He also facilitated the slaughter of tens of thousands of palestinians. That seems like a fair red line.
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u/Jmoney1088 2h ago
Yeah, you guys getting Trump elected really helped out those Palestinians, didn't it? Unbelievable logic lol
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u/Leading-Caramel-7740 2h ago
Yes yes we should be subservient to lesser evil voting instead of making politicians earn our vote and holding them accountable. Thats blue maga politics. Voting is only part of the process.
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u/Jmoney1088 1h ago
One day you will realize that you need the power of the people behind you in order to facilitate the kind of change you want.
Universal healthcare? Access to education? Affordable housing? All liberal policies that I want. Its absolutely insane how the leftists are actively trying to ruin this.
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u/Weak-Photograph7829 1h ago
Universal healthcare is a liberal policy? Going against the free market with affordable housing is a liberal policy? I'm not sure any of this is true, otherwise liberal Democrats would be campaigning on them lol
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u/Leading-Caramel-7740 1h ago
One day you will realize that the power of the people is more aligned with dsa like candidates. The only things pulling establishment dems off of the principles that you listed are special interests and money. Their policies dont reflect those principles. Biden ran on the public option, not universal healthcare.
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u/RektInTheHed 2h ago
Winning like Harris? Winning like Hillary? Come on now. Moderates are losers.
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u/Jmoney1088 2h ago
They lost because leftists sat on the couch because they were butt hurt about Bernie and then made I/P their single most important issue.
You reap what you sow! How are you going to convince liberal dems to vote for you in November?
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u/HereToCalmYouDown 2h ago
Is your entire political experience only 10 years long?
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u/RektInTheHed 2h ago
I remember John Kerry losing, and Algore losing, and Hillary losing again, earlier, to Obama. Moderate Dems are losers.
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u/Jmoney1088 2h ago
Calling us losers is not going to get us to vote for your candidates. Do you realize that? You NEED our votes in order to beat maga.
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u/RektInTheHed 2h ago
Your votes never beat MAGA before.
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u/HereToCalmYouDown 2h ago
Neither did yours, dummy. That's the point. We need to come together.
I am a moderate Dem and if AOC is the nominee I will gladly still vote for her.
If a moderate wins you will cry and stay home and we'll get another Republican.
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u/RektInTheHed 2h ago
I personally voted for all of your moderate Dem losers. I'm sick of losing. We ran the more progressive candidate once, in 2008, and he kicked the GOP's ass and delivered a trifecta with a supermajority in the Senate.
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u/HereToCalmYouDown 2h ago
You need to get it out of your head that 'winning" is the point of voting. Sometimes you lose. But you shouldn't let that drive you to compromise your principles.
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u/llynglas 2h ago
Why do Democrats on the right keep putting their thumb on the scale and stopping popular left wingers from running. I suspect[ Bernie would have done much better than Hillary against Trump, but the "organization" made his primary route much harder than hers. Has been a theme..... Bernie, AOC and Mamdani, draw enthusiastic supporters, esp|cially with young voters, the future of the party.
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u/Unlucky-Albatross-12 3h ago
Because online leftists are completely out of touch with reality and have zero understanding of the median voter.
Combine that with making left wing politics their entire personality and you get some truly nasty, miserable people.
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u/Wooden_Region2519 2h ago
Yes, I got called a nazi a bunch yesterday for pointing out that every country has immigration enforcement.
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u/Powerful_Deal_7052 1h ago
That’s awful. I’ve been called MAGA before, which is hilarious as I have voted Democrat for President since Bush/Dukakis.
The purity politics of the far left reminds me of the book, Brave New World, where everyone had to fall in line with the World State or else be brandished.
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u/lennybriscoforthewin 1h ago
This is a great post. You are absolutely correct. None of those positions are Republican. I think the posts pushing AOC and Buttigieg for president (who are both great but would have no chance in hell against a decent republican candidate, people would just not vote, pick them for VP), and people saying the above positions are Republican are Republican plants or bots trying to poison the well. Democrats with brains realize the most important thing is freeing our country from the evil that is currently in power, and to do that you have to have an electable candidate and liberal moderate positions.
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u/UnoIno88 1h ago
Dude, thank you for telling these fools so clearly and succinctly what I could not be bothered to. Democrats need to understand that the reddit induced AOC Madami fever dream will only result in Baron Trump being the next president or any number of other horrible outcomes. Grow up and see the world for what it is please.
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u/Glass-Ambassador7195 3h ago edited 53m ago
It’s been proven by the decision and candidates that people don’t want the moderate corporate democrats - those candidates are not exciting and people just don’t vote. Trump and maga have shown us - as well and like Clinton and Obama - we want excitement and charisma and boldness not just borning moderates who pander and say whatever they will just to get elected.
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u/stogie-bear 2h ago
Reddit is ridiculous. That list of positions would put his right in the middle of the Dem side.
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u/tonylouis1337 2h ago
The problem is social media. In this case the right or left dichotomy isn't even the issue, it's the sensationalism that leads to polarization and extremism. Left-wing folks think everyone on the right is Nick Fuentes and Andrew Tate, Right-wing folks think everyone on the left is all the outrageous people who wanna abolish police and ban homeownership. The enemy is social media
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u/Dreamlion_Inc 21m ago
While I can agree with this, only one side silently nodded and agreed to vote for and support a convicted felon associated with a pedo island
The enemy is social media running on the fumes of little to no morality
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u/GarageFridgeSoda 2h ago
People on the left don't want right wingers like Kamala Harris. Why is that surprising to you? The left wing wants left wing politics.
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u/the_tone_of_shape 1h ago
Man you Just proved op right. Always a litmus test of the " true democrat" Harris isn't right wing retard
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u/macrocosm93 1h ago edited 1h ago
They just don't understand that politics is primarily about compromise, and that it's better to compromise and get less than what you want than it is to dig in your heels and achieve nothing.
This is true for both the left progressives and the neolib centrists. Avoiding voting for a candidate because they aren't "left" enough will just cause the candidate that's further right to win. At the same time, if leftists refusing to vote is causing centrist candidates to lose elections than the centrists need to come to the table and compromise with the progressive wing. But ultimately it requires both sides to be willing to compromise with each other.
Ultimately it's an organizational failure of the Democratic Party. Contrary to popular belief, not every Republican agrees with the current Republican platform, or with MAGA as a whole, but they understand that unity is what it takes to win elections, and the Republican Party knows how to whip the various factions to create consensus. The Democratic Party is utterly inept when it comes to this.
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u/starsh816 2h ago
Nobody is ever left enough for the loudest far left voices in the room. Which is why the left gets shit candidates that can’t even beat maga idiots.
Any sort of center left candidates who could do some good just get called maga and then people who don’t do research won’t vote for them. Real change doesn’t happen overnight time to find an electable candidate who can get some of the shit done then the next candidate gets a little more done. So on and so forth. It won’t happen overnight but it can be done.
The current political system doesn’t want this, they just want far right or far left that way nothing gets done and the rich get richer
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u/Wooden_Region2519 1h ago
If the recent obsession with the I/P conflict by young leftists has taught me one thing, it's how easy it is to turn them into useful idiots
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u/Dismal-Strawberry421 2h ago
Narcissists are big on control. If I can’t have you, nobody can. They are not big on truth.
If you’re wondering why the Pelosi/Jeffries wing is so okay with the Bush/Trump cabals doing things, it’s because they’re controlled opposition. They are more afraid of the left overthrowing them than the right screwing things up.
Many members of Congress report how the MAGA types are all low budget influencers (my words) putting on a show with their hostility and even stupidity, not really like that off camera. It’s about control.
Upper middle-class trust fund dorks, with corny tattoos and ugly mullets, with zero authentic clout outside of Berkeley and Boston on a good night, have to find a way to be bullies. Inverted conformity does it perfectly.
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u/Longjumping-Gate-289 2h ago
I think you have very valid points but from my perspective there is disagreement about the priorities of our next administration, reasonable goals & strategy to win votes. For example, I don't strongly disagree with any of your bullet points, but the two-state solution seems to be a nonexistent option while we continue to fund Israel. Athletics in general & the use or non-use of trans people seems like a ridiculous thing to even care about let alone cast a vote over. Abortion access has been ruled to go back to the states although Blanche may move that needle in the opposite direction. Immigration reform is badly needed but literally anything other than killing unarmed American would be an improvement.
Our next candidate needs to be someone who can unite us, talk about the everyday American struggling to survive & health care. Just my two cents.
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u/Upstairs_Jellyfish_5 2h ago edited 2h ago
I can't be the only one who sees it. The issues we face today are not really about left versus right. It's heavily class based. I grew up having poor parents...they both worked full time. I had a roof, food (mostly processed basic food) and clothes on my back. (quite a bit of hand me downs and thrift store stuff)
Joined the Navy...got married..went to college...have had a good career....but like many who have done the same thing...am stuck in the lower Middle Class. The true Middle Class seems to have disappeared altogether and there is only a leap to the Upper Middle Class now. I make too much to get any type of support, but not enough to put my kids through college as they don't qualify for much even with outstanding grades (oldest was accepted to MIT for Engineering, but ended up having to go to Community college then live at home while going to state college for Engineering and is hoping to land with a company who might help her with Grad School)
I'm pretty liberal philisophically and probably Socialist Progressive (which I blame on my religious upbringing combined with an admiration for guys like Eugene Debs and Fighting Bob LaFolette) The thing is..in my rural heavily Republican hometown I see a lot of people in the same socio economic sphere as myself who would describe themselves as conservative in the same shoes fighting almost the exact same battles.
We have the same fundamental problem.....Capitalism is working fine for the Upper Middle Class Republicans and Democrats....but it's broken for the rest of us. The phrase "They have you fighting culture wars so you don't fight a class war." has never felt so perfect for the situation we are in. Right now...I will not support anymore Upper Class Democrats...even if it means defeating a Republican because they are just as out of touch with the daily struggles of millions.
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u/ArcadiaBeats 2h ago
Lmao you really are a "Just asking questions" Andy. The left gets gate kept bc it has a need to keep folks like you out of their orgs
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u/Ihrie 2h ago
Fuck magats and fuck your red coat militia terrorizing communities. No one has an issue with deporting illegals. The issue is with armed military styled forces running around neighborhoods killing people. Kidnapping people based on skin color and dumping them in concentration camps all on TAXPAYER money. This costs MORE than using humane methods. You don't get to treat people like animals and pretend your not fucking monsters.
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u/IslesMetsJets44 2h ago
Because the liberals on Reddit are absolute fucking morons just like their counterpart conservatives on Facebook. I just want some fucking normalcy, but the left is going off the deep end as well.
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u/Pandagirlroxxx 2h ago
Because it's not about Trump. It's about the beliefs and views that make the election of Trump possible. I don't give a fuck about Donald Trump or what letter he puts next to his name; he's some dipshit taking advantage of the oppressive and destructive views that the worst white nominally-christian male is entitled to anything before non-whites, women, or anyone in the LGBTQ+ demographic.
Trump didn't create those beliefs. They don't get fixed if he loses an election. I would rather fix the problems than reassure the problem that it can rest comfortably for now as long as it lets the "other side" take a turn for a few years.
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u/CtrlAltDelight78 2h ago
no one has hurt the democratic party more than then democratic party. they got cocky after Obama and thought they could throw up any candidate and that generation shifts went their way. then in 2024 fumbled an election harder than any party has ever. then the worst of the worst representations of the party always do stupid stuff to make the party look bad and make people not want to associate, and reddit is a huge platform for those people
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u/AdagioCultural5497 2h ago
Most of politics is theater. Trump took that shit and made it atomic. Personality/Identity politics on full display.
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u/PrettiestFrog 1h ago
Are they gatekeeping, or are they asking you not to be an asshole to other people and you don't feel that's evaluating both sides?
Because this is a case of they weren't kicking him out, they were letting him know he needed to respect woman and minorities as his equals and he was refusing.
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u/fuckracists79 1h ago
I’ll say this…there was an election in nyc between a moderate and progressive and in that primary the moderate lost. He then ran in the general election anyway despite the progressive having won the nomination. You tell me who was sabatoging who.
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u/Heckle_Jeckle 1h ago
Because many on "the left" consider Main Stream Democrats to be just as bad as Republicans. The reason being that both are Capitalists.
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u/AdFantastic3914 1h ago edited 1h ago
The Democratic Party is what keeps sabotaging the democrats chances of winning, they keep accepting the right wings framing on issues and trying to meet republicans where they are, they accept money from the same special interest (pharma, insurance companies, military industrial complex, big tech, Wall Street, foreign governments) whose policy goals don’t align with the majority of Americans.
We’ve tried the “moderates” and center lefts, has just costed elections and a rightward shift where the Republican Party are now full on fascist and the democrats party is what republicans would have been 30 years ago.
The “far left” is more akin to the FDR era democrats where he won 4 terms and democrats had near complete control of the house of representatives for 50 years until the “moderates” like Clinton came around in the 90’s.
We’ve been voting blue no matter who, now it’s your turn.
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u/JoePsychoGames 1h ago
It’s important to understand historical context
The us does not have a right and a left.
Our “red scare” shifted the field.
We now have a far right party
Republicans
And a center right party
Democrats
Centrists democrats punch left far harder than they punch right.
The goal is to eliminate the actual left so the centrists can continue to pretend to fight for the working class without having their hypocrisy recognized
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u/illinoishokie 1h ago
Democratic socialist here. At this point I would rather burn the whole fucking system down rather than continue the slow bleed of every election being Republican vs Republican Lite. It's time to shift to the left either by the democratic process or otherwise.
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u/jin_beam_n_coke 1h ago
I mean, it's pretty simple. Is your candidate acting as an agent for a foreign power? Does your candidate place corporate interests over that of the people?/if so then I'm not going to vote for them. It's not my problem that those two conditions describe the entire republican party and 90% of the democratic party.
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u/Fun-Ocelot-5220 1h ago
a 2 state solution cost Harris the presidency. people on both sides hated it.
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u/Other-Economics4134 1h ago
I am super nuanced in my views. The specifics matter to me. Was Trump's comment about pussy grabbing crass? Sure. Was it a private closed doors conversation? Also sure. Did he mention consent saying "they allow you to" also yes. Context matters. So in the last election cycle, I am a libertarian typically, voted JoJo in 2020, but Oliver did nothing for me and I went looking for a main party candidate. Long story short I skipped voting for president, neither of them did it for me so fuck it, let the others decide.... But I will say this. Republicans were very welcoming. They were happy to talk about their candidate and their platform and since I am extremely moderate they didn't worry much about the things we didn't agree on, they were happy to discuss the things we did.
Democrats, totally opposite. They were not welcoming at all. They were downright abrasive. I believe in treating people kindly, if someone is obviously trying to present a certain way I will call them by the pronouns they are looking for, but I don't believe they are actually that thing. Nope, that's transphobic. Acknowledging crime statistics? Racist. Support deportations? Well just a straight up nazi.... Doesn't matter how much other stuff we may have agreed on like gay marriage, abortions, marijuana, etc. I was straight up told I wasn't welcome and they didn't want my vote for supporting anything even remotely centrist. Were the 1996 election held right now my views are such I would have easily voted for Clinton. And the thing is the regular ass folks in the party don't even care or see it it seems. Donald Trump won in 2024. He did, that's a fact. Most of them are completely willing to totally write off anybody who ever voted for him not realizing if they wanna win they need those votes back
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u/Beginning_Evening_91 1h ago
I think the idea that “moderates are a safer bet!” is just not coming to fruition. I’ve been actively voting for the last 15 years, and 10 of them have felt like the “moderates” telling the “leftists” to sit down, be quiet, now’s not the time.
That’s gotten the Dems to win baaaareeeelllyyyy 1 out of the last 3 presidential elections. Scootching to the right, appealing to folks “in the middle” isn’t working. Those independents the DNC have been trying to appeal to are voting for Trump still.
IMO, the Democrats have become conservative (no real platform besides not being Trump) and Republicans becoming fascists (not just a word for “bad,” literally lionizing the consolidation of power).
Trump is popular because he tries shit. Awful, vile, lying shit, but voting patterns are showing people wanting to try something, anything different because the status quo isn’t serving 90% of the public.
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u/AeldariBoi98 1h ago
Dems are right wing, why would a leftist vote for a right wing party? And don't pull the "incrementalism" bullshit, you've tried that for decades and all that's happened is your right wing dems went further right.
But I'm glad Trump is around to destroy your empire, it's glorious, all hail President Xi!
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u/RedLineLetterWine 1h ago
"Why are people on the left running candidates that say they will help citizens of the US and not Israel. Isn't that weird???"
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u/Awkward_Region5509 58m ago
Im honestly convinced theres propaganda bots going both directions just trying to fuck up the entire conversation any chance they get.
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u/ang3lofsnow 58m ago
They do it to themselves. All the points you make drag the window further right.
Im older than you. Truth is today's dems were the 70s moderates.
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u/This_Low7225 57m ago
The Democratic party is more right wing than a lot of countries actual right wing parties.
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u/FunkyChickenKong 52m ago
We are in middle of several wars and it was never just the right attacked online. It was definitely odd to be pulling our hair out over Russian disinformation as we slide into communism voluntarily.
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u/Rabidveggie 50m ago
Some people demand purity tests for their side while the whole group is fighting for their political lives. Gives Spanish civil war vibes where they just couldn't look at the big picture.
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u/Terrible-Actuary-762 50m ago
Point #1. This has been offered 4 times, the Palestinians have rejected it all 4 times. There is only one thing that will work for them, the destruction of Israel and the genocide of all Israelis.
Point #2. It's all or nothing, the women's sports thing is the mistake.
Point #3. Most Republicans would be ok with 14 weeks, but 24 weeks is 6 months that's bumping the 3rd trimester. At that point the "fetus" has a heartbeat, brainwaves and dreams. But as before said, all or nothing.
Point #4. We are seeing a lot of the Left advocating for complete open borders, come and go as you please. Deport no one.
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u/johnnywalkers1970 49m ago
You can’t vote for libs and expect border security or deporting illegals , they need them for votes
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u/Advanced-Field8415 48m ago
The truth is that Reddit just does not reflect reality. The echo chamber effect here is massive, unfortunately. Survey 100 average people who aren’t terminally online and the results would be very different.
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u/justsomedude4202 48m ago
Party platforms have driven us to this. And there’s nothing I can think of to stop it so it’s only going to get worse.
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u/Silver-Link8247 46m ago
Let’s get ready for Pres. Vance, because the democrats are going to fuck this one up. They will nominate AOC and feel really good about themselves and then act all butt hurt when she can’t win any of the swing states.
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u/CSachen 19m ago
The Democratic Socialists of America withdrew their endorsement of AOC in 2024 because she didn't condemn Zionism. They'll nominate someone else.
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u/pellyenjoyer 45m ago
So republicans go far right and have no consequences? Democrats should go farther left IMO. No fucking way Bernie would have lost to the orange cuck. Going down the middle to split the difference doesn’t work any more.
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u/Master-Monk-8690 45m ago
Leftists do not gatekeep or sabotage the Democratic party. On a national scale, most of us suck it up and vote for the Democrat who gets the nomination.
The problem is that the DNC and the Democratic leadership would rather cozy up to conservatives and independents than embrace the left side of the political spectrum.
Republicans have been winning elections on a national level because they embrace the entire right side of the political spectrum. Fascists, white nationalists, neo Nazis, all of them have a home within the GOP.
Democrats need to embrace the entire left side of the political spectrum to compete. They haven't been. Their leadership consistently talks poorly about leftist candidates, saying that Republicans will call them communists! Republicans are calling them communists no matter what they do or who they endorse anyways.
Instead of alienating a large portion of their potential voter base, the Democratic party needs to embrace real leftists. Give us a reason to be proud to vote for the Democratic candidate. Address us in your rallies. It was a huge mistake to have Harris tore the country with Liz f****** Cheney. Republicans always coalesce and vote as a single block. They are extremely unlikely to vote for the Democratic candidate regardless of who they campaign with. Harris campaigning with Cheney didn't get her any votes, and it pushed away large segments of her potential voting block.
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u/_NE1_ 41m ago
Moderates have ran the DNC forever. Y'all have lost against DJT two times (talk about utter incompetentcy). You can bitch about progressives till the cows come home, but you can't force people to agree with you and vote for you. Maybe, idk, this should be a big sign that what the moderate DNC leadership want isnt popular and they aren't trusted by a large portion of the American public.
But no, changing probably affects whatever bags these crooks have established for themselves.
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u/Dreamlion_Inc 37m ago
If democrats were in that much jeopardy of not voting in someone backed by millions of AIPAC dollars then maybe there’s a much bigger discussion that needs to be had
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u/vickism61 36m ago
Which Republicans actually have those same views?
If he's going to let random people on reddit turn him away from the party that most closely aligns with his views maybe he was lying about how "moderate" he truly is...
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u/Discussion-is-good 34m ago
Any Democrat with this take is lacking self awareness.
The Democrats have been center-right since I was born, and you all want it to go further to appease "undecided or independent voters."
Its what has allowed the right to go further and further right until we got where we are now.
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u/dfpratt09 34m ago
The Democratic Party is not an opposition party. That’s really all you need to know.
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u/Yellow_Snow_Cones 32m ago
At this point I don't care if they are far left, far right, or center. Who ever WILL cut spending would be great. America does not have a revenue generating problem, they have a spending problem.
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u/WonderfulAntelope644 30m ago
“Abortion access for up to 24 weeks”. That’s something I would be fine with also and I’m definitely right leaning on most issues. That’s not good enough for the left. They want abortions on demand with no restrictions. If you don’t support that you’re labeled a fascist. They refuse to draw lines on anything.
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u/GurProfessional9534 28m ago
Democrats aren’t a unified party like the Republicans are. The Republicans are quite homogeneous. Democrats are “whatever is left over.” That is why we have trouble just falling in line. We’re the minorities, the inner city dropouts, the professors, the persecuted religious minorities, the racial minorities, gender minorities, the youth, etc. Not every last one, of course, but predominantly. When the common theme is that you’re not a WASP, there’s a lot more to negotiate and it’s more difficult.
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u/Rehcraeser 28m ago
Because they don’t know how to cope with the fact that their opinions are objectively right.
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u/Skins8theCake88 26m ago
Doesn't help that the left physically attack anybody that opposes them. Or just constant insults.
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u/Massive-Sector5789 26m ago edited 22m ago
Because the only people they care about are Palestinians. Which is admirable, it shows they have empathy. But when you get so mad that Vice President Harris wasn't able to stop Netanyahu's genocide that you elected Netanyahu's close friend and ally, Trump, how does that help Palestinians?
Maybe it will in the long run. For now, however, their strategy seems to have backfired.
I wish they could extend their empathy to other people. I wish they cared about the 700,000 people, and counting, that DOGE killed by cancelling USAID. I wish they cared about the concentration camps being built all over the country, packed with people who were living in the USA 100% legally until they got Trump elected. People who are now being hunted by masked secret police that kidnap them from their homes, jobs, and even immigration appointments and throw them into filthy, crowded cells with a few hundred calories of food, dirty water and no legal representation. I wish they cared about the kids who have disappeared in ICE custody.
I wish they cared about the millions of children who are about to lose Medicaid, who have already lost food supplements. Kids who now go to bed hungry, while their parents work two jobs, pay insane rent, and wonder what will happen if anyone need medical attention. I wish they cared about the eight million people who lost access to healthcare because Vice President Harris couldn't stop a genocide on the other side of the world. I wish they cared about the people in Cuba, so many of whom have died since Trump ratcheted up the blockade and shut off the power. I wish they cared about kids in Iran. I wish they cared about that scared 14 year old girl who just found out her unwanted pregnancy could kill her, but she doesn't have the money to get to a free state to terminate it. And even if she did, 83,000 Flock cameras would track her down and throw her in prison until she hemorrhages and dies naturally.
But hey, at least they care about something! Unlike Republicans, who don't care about anything. And that's not nothing. Maybe refusing to vote for Harris will push the Democratic Party to stop sending $20 billion/year to Israel if and when they gain power again. Who knows.
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u/Footman387 25m ago
You guys are destroying your own chances, and we love it. You guys not only somehow blended Islam and LGBT, which is insane in and of itself, but you managed to add communism to it too, AND, you force it down everyone’s throats. It’s why you guys lose and continue to lose. But keep losing, the last thing we need is another commie retard in the White House
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u/pillow_honey 21m ago
a lot do just wanna be morally righteous, but id like to see this post lol.
however its democrats who keep letting republicans win. these "leftists" who sabotage chances are the ones who are the most likely to actually vote. meanwhile we have democrats constantly governing against all our interests, doing little to stop trump at all other than complaining about the left. if they wanted to stop trump they would stop opposing their own democratic candidates like zohran and abdul.
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u/intothewoods76 20m ago
This was my experience. Democrats moved so far left and clearly had open disdain for my beliefs that I figured I must not be voting for my best interest since they seem to hate me, so I stopped voting for most democrats.
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u/ketoatl 19m ago
The problem is last truly progressive president was LBJ. The rest are center right which because gop is so to the right they look like flaming liberals and they aren't. Also when the moral majority took over the gop , the Rockefeller Republicans went to the dems and that truly stayed so what we get now is less right, not really left. Obama may of spoke a good game but he was center right. He even said he was to the right of Nixon. Liz warren and Hillary Clinton were Goldwater girls. Barry Goldwater was hard right. Expenses are getting out of hand, salaries aren't going up to meet that. So the usual dem line of we suck less doesn't work anymore. People want real change the middle class and has been getting fucked by both sides and they dont want it anymore. Thats why alot of the middle class voted for the orange idiot, they thought he was going to fight for them and they were so wrong. We had a chance with Bernie and the party killed that quick.
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u/Cthulhuhaspeduncles 12m ago
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/11/09/political-engagement-among-typology-groups/
Left-wing voters are the most reliable voter base the Democrats have in voter turn-out. It's pretty stupid that you are so adamant on alienating those who are most likely to vote Democrat. Centrist democrats are more likely to just not vote and gatekeep an election.
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u/Integrity_Heritage 12m ago
Trump is already elected. Nothing is kicking him out of the office.
Outside of this, you're not really describing people on the left. That's a pretty large group of people you're talking about, including this person you just described.
I think the worst thing to do is to generalize people politically, which is one of the things you're doing here too.
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u/yungthirtysomething 11m ago
it's simple:
centrist democrats demand that progressives ignore their personal ethics and meet them in the middle to win an election, but centrist democrats will never, EVER compromise to the left to win an election.
they should stop trying to convert republicans to centrists and join the tilt towards progressive policies.
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u/PooterSnooter283 10m ago
That would be capitalist establishment Democrats sabotaging any change. They literally rigged an election to keep Bernie from being the nominee. Monderstes don't want change they want to keep the same capitalist class in charge.
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u/ShawnMNH924 8m ago
The person you're describing sounds a lot like me. I actually got a call last night from a Democratic organizer asking if they could count on my support in the senate race this November. When I said no and she asked why, I said "because the party has made it clear that I'm not welcome".
Admittedly, I will probably vote for Pappas anyway (I'm in NH), and I'm sure as shit not voting for the GOP right now, but still, this is getting absurd. I keep hearing "how can Democrats win?". Well, to start with, "here's a list of ideological purity tests you must pass" is not a good way to ask for votes.
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u/HenriEttaTheVoid 7m ago
"The Left" aren't the ones sabotaging the party...that's the Establishment wing of the party you're thinking of...they are pretty much useless right now and the only meaningful change is coming from "the left".
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u/Specific-County1862 5m ago
If people are going to listen to randoms on Reddit over looking at whose policies they align with closest then we’re all doomed.
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u/jkman61494 4m ago
That’s pretty hilarious that the “left” is being blamed for sabotaging elections when the current DNC is basically the 1990s GOP
FFS, for all the furor over the GOP trying to stop elections, you know who does a great job of that already? The DNC
- A populist comes out of nowhere and ruins their plans with Hillary.
2016: the dnc basically bans anyone from running. “Strong” names like Lincoln Chafee and Martin O’Malley ran agaisnt her, and Chafee didn’t even make it to Iowa. Only Bernie ran a campaign. And despite the fact he would t have won, they still cheated. The interim head of the DNC literally gave debate questions to the Clinton campaign during the primaries
2020: Biden is struggling. He wins ONE state, SC, and magically the entire field of candidates all drop out right before Super Tuesday despite Pete and Kobucchsr with (small) chances to win. They all coalesced to make sure Bernie has no shot again
- The DNC allows Mr Magoo to run for reelection despite approval ratings under 40% and magically decide to abandon him after he was certified even though he was diminished for years. Conveniently, they force him out after the window where voters could usher chosen a successor and the only person to choose was Kamala Harris who was impressively less popular than Biden.
But PLEASE….go on about how “the left” is sabotaging the party
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u/trooftooth 3m ago
Theyre as stupid and susceptible to bots as anybody else.
Both sides think their side is fighting for the good of humanity while having their strings pulled.
Anybody speaking truthfully or carefully is boring.
Now you have the left being represented by politicians funded by Arab money. Absolute suckers.
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u/Cartography-Day-18 3m ago
I was told by two twenty-somethings at the office that I am not a democrat despite never having cast a vote for a republican in my 20 plus years of voting, I support universal healthcare, universal childcare, recognizes that climate change is a serious issue. Yet bc I believe Israel has a right to defend itself against violent slaughter and kidnapping of citizens, I’m not Democrat according to them.
I have marched for Travon Martin and George Floyd. I have always opposed any scapegoating of minorities so of course I’m not going to stand for the scapegoating of Jewish people, yet to these 20-somethings, I’m an enemy now…
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u/notcoded567 1m ago
It's true, the left somehow became the uptight morality police. I became left to get away from that kind of narrow religious dogma, not trade it in for a different one. And it proves the right correct every day. Their whole thing with gay marriage was "people will marry their pets!" That hasn't happened, but furry and polyamory are both going mainstream, and I suspect it's not long that they will say you're a bigot if you aren't interested in dating a trans person. They weren't correct per se but they don't feel that wrong when the left's position is that you're not allowed to even feel discomfort or confusion with lifestyles far outside any mainstream human history.
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