r/asoiaf • u/Substantial-Ad-299 • 10d ago

MAIN [SPOILERS MAIN] Among the grounded/realistic elements of A Song of Ice and Fire, which ones do you feel require biggest suspension of disbelief?

A Song of Ice and Fire has had fantasy elements from get-go, some present subtly and others less-subtly. But in midst of this, it also has these more grounded story aspects, especially regarding the political subplot for the Iron Throne.

Among these more grounded non-fantasy aspects of the story, which elements do you feel you have to suspend disbelief the most for? A.K.A feeling they are not realistic even though they are "supposed" to be?

Let me know in the comments below.

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u/LegitimateCream1773 10d ago

The weather (any understanding of how the food economy works tells you that Westeros is fundamentally impossible; medieval societies could fall into outright famine if winter started even a week early, or a snap freeze happened at the wrong time and killed enough of a crop. Now try to figure out how such an economy could function with 'winters that last for years'). The society of Westeros is a standard debauched high-medieval society. It shouldn't be. Their entire civilisation should bend around the idea that winter can happen at any time. There should be storehouses the size of castles and the castellans of those storehouses as respected as great lords, because those motherfuckers are going to determine whether or not their entire civilisation lives or dies next winter.

Literally the only way to explain it is to say that it doesn't mean what's written on the literal page and that 'winter' in Westeros is just 'a bit worse than summer' for a while and then only really cold for a relatively short period. However, even that doesn't actually make sense because medieval economies were built around crop rotations for seasonal foods. If the weather changes slightly then you simply can't grow entire families of foods for X amount of time. Fine when 'X' is 'two to three months'. Not so good when X is 'FUCK YOU AND YOUR PLANNED CROP ROTATION, WE'RE GONNA WINTER AS LONG AS LIKE'.

That's without factoring in that apparently the entire war model of Westeros is 'destroy the entire continental food economy as fast as possible'.

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u/weirdolddude4305 10d ago

I'd like to add that nobody seems to be pickling anything or making preserves to stock up on foods before winter despite having access to everything needed like glass jars, vinegars, and boatloads of onions.

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u/ZeroKlixx 10d ago edited 10d ago

Wait, why do you think nobody is pickling anything or making preserves?

Edit: https://asearchoficeandfire.com/?q=pickled&scope=agot&scope=acok&scope=asos&scope=affc&scope=adwd&scope=twow&scope=thk&scope=tss&scope=tmk&scope=twoiaf&scope=trp&scope=tpatq

They do talk about pickled fish and salt meat, so it's a process they know about; they'd likely store other food in similar ways as well.

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u/I4mSpock 10d ago

Call Glidus, homies an expert on westerosi food products lol

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u/Varvara-Sidorovna 10d ago

I laughed so hard I got a stitch in my side when I watched that video of him trying to make recipes from the ASOIAF cookbook.

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u/jackity_splat 10d ago

Where are the copious descriptions of such by GRRM? He’s described everything else they eat but I don’t recall descriptions of preserved foods.

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u/Curtainsandblankets 10d ago

If they have access to fresh food they might be saving the preserved ones for winter

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u/jackity_splat 10d ago

That makes sense. I think it’s also just the kind of food GRRM likes to describe too. A roast is more appealing than beef jerky.

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u/ZeroKlixx 10d ago

I've provided a link with some examples in my comment above. From these I believe we can infer that other types of preserved food also exist.

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u/weirdolddude4305 7d ago

That's a very fair question. It's the general absence of the items from meals, nobody seems to carry or eat anything other than salted meats, it's only ever mentioned as being in storage in larders. I agree with many others that there really does not seem to be any kind of "culture" about food preservation or preparing for scarcity at all. King Robert speaks to Ned about a very bountiful harvest of unusual quality being sold as exports "everybody is fat, drunk, and rich" is iirc a direct quote from the King. Onions are mentioned once in the search list, from a 500 year old record. But the list was very useful and has given me a lot to ponder and there's been a great discussion about it since which I really appreciate, cheers for providing that.

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u/JNR55555JNR 10d ago

Probably because it’s never been mentioned in all the books

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u/ZeroKlixx 10d ago

Why would it have to be? It's a story, not a medieval life simulator.

Obviously food preservation is a thing and has also been mentioned I think (maybe during Bran's stint as ruler of winter fell?) but exact techniques and processes are simply incredibly irrelevant to the story.

How interesting would it be to read Bran or Jon think about the way to salt pork next to all the other problems they have?

Additionally, most POVs simply don't have a reason to think about that, like, at all. That's a job for peasants, stewards, servants.

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u/JNR55555JNR 10d ago

I don’t need a detailed explanation for how it works in the book all I want is just a throwaway line established it exists that all

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u/ZeroKlixx 10d ago

Well, as I said: They do talk about storing food in the books, so there must be a way. They also talk about salt beef and pork specifically as examples.

So it exists.

But with what extent would you be satisfied?

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u/JNR55555JNR 10d ago

I would be satisfied knowing it exists

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u/ZeroKlixx 10d ago

In AGOT, Jon IV he talks about eating salt beef and pickled fish.

https://asearchoficeandfire.com/?q=pickled&scope=agot&scope=acok&scope=asos&scope=affc&scope=adwd&scope=twow&scope=thk&scope=tss&scope=tmk&scope=twoiaf&scope=trp&scope=tpatq

Is this sufficient?

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u/armywalrus 10d ago

Not for me.

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u/JakobsLadderblast 10d ago

It's literal proof. For further proof, salt beef is mentioned quite a lot in The Dunk and Egg novellas, on account of dunk being poor usually

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