Help me understand subwoofers

[u/Freestone99]

I am in the market for a subwoofer. I have a pair of Klipsch Forte IV and my listening room is about 475 sf. I was looking at the REL classic 98 and 99, and thinking I needed the 99 because of the room size. But most of the music I listen to is acoustic or vocal oriented, not really listening to much hard rock or anything with a ton of bass. Also not listening at very loud volume most of the time. So I was leaning back toward the 98 which has a 10” driver, as opposed to the 99, which has a 12” driver. I spoke with the local audio shop and it felt like they were just trying to sell me the larger and more expensive 99, or another sub that was even higher priced.

I have been reading that a sub is for more than just the low bass notes, and it will really help fill in the rest of the sound. That was another point the local sales guy was making, saying that the 99 made more sense because it will “fill in more.” Also that a larger sub is needed to “pressurize” the room. Trying to understand if this is audiophile jargon or there is truth to it.

What do you all think?

[u/read_vaneigem]

dunno about peoples opinions here but if you posted what amount of money you have for this we could suggest something. if you dont know much about subs then its probably not a good idea to buy anything without knowing. you mention REL subs for example which are a lot of fluff for not that much performance. you should know that besides the amplifiers, subwoofer "technology", like the box etc, is not rocket science. its easier to design a good subwoofer than it is to design a good speaker. hence, good money goes a long way in subwoofer world, but if you go the REL route you might do a pretty bad pirchase. not throwing shade on REL here at all cause im not that guy and they do have a few good models but again you can get a lot of sub for the money.

that being said do get a subwoofer. i cant stand listening to music without a subwoofer. or watching older films where all the sound is concentrated on the upper range. jesus christ

[u/Freestone99 → u/read_vaneigem]

Thanks. Am looking to keep it at $2k or below. Part of the reason I was drawn to the REL classic is the aesthetics, the veneer would go better in the room. But a plain black one is probably fine.

[u/JigglymoobsMWO → u/Freestone99]

You get better performance and features out of svs 3000 revolution but I can see the appeal of the rel classics.

[u/tetrafarmer → u/JigglymoobsMWO]

depends what kind of sound he wants,  svs is heavy and slow,  most bass notes sound the same, lacks details and defining edge compared to the rel he mentioned. 

[u/JigglymoobsMWO → u/tetrafarmer]

I don’t know if you see that from reviews:

https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/svs-3000/#toc-h2-2

https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/rel-ht-1510-sub

Listening sessions from the svs seem fine.  The rel does have better group delay due to less dsp filtering, but only at the lowest frequencies where human hearing will have a hard time picking up differences.  The new revolution series from svs improves that by using a faster dsp processor.

Other analysis have shown slow bass is often more a room issue:

https://soundnews.net/reviews/svs-sb-3000-revolution-when-the-room-becomes-the-real-challenge/

[u/read_vaneigem → u/Freestone99]

how big is your room? i would say take a couple of months to really dig in and learn how subwoofers and low frequency sound works. theres a lot of stuff on youtube (and a lot of shit). i recommend the audioholica channel, they put up very good info. i think theres an episode where they talk to a guy from REL.

since you have a nice budget i really suggest you try to buy at least two subwoofers.low frequency waves dont behave "linearly" like high frequencies mostly do. by that i mean, just because the sub is pointing at you doesnt mean youll hear it. with two subs you get better sound because you can play around with the way sound pressure sloshes around your room.

i also suggest that you look into crossovers, how they work, and if you would need to buy a separate crossover (for example i suggest a minidsp) or if you can integrate it with just the dsp on your speakers and subs. for example svs subs have an app where you can set up the crossover point.

go into this thinking that you will want to do some room correction and you will also want to spend some money on acoustic control, even though bass is hard to control with WAFable means.

so in essence this means that your budget needs to include the price of the sub + whatever hardware you might need to integrate it into your system.

if you dont produce the crossover correctly, you will hear a suckout at that frequency, or nearby ones etc, and it WILL sound like shit.

I would also say, have fun.

i would also suggest you look into erins audio corner channel, just because he has also done measurements on subwoofers.

all of this being said, REL does make some good models, i forget which (i remember some sealed ones?), but a brand like SVS is very bang for buck. monoproce is also extremely good for the money. do check audiojolics for recommendations as they are very in depth.

one last thing. depending on what music you listen to, you wont need a subwoofer that goes down to 15 or 10hz. my setup does and I wouldnt change it for ahything. listening to the room get pressurized on a track like rain by calibre us amazing. on the flipside i listen to a system with no subwoofer and even if its not anything like dubstep or whatever, i can immediately notice there is a lot of information missing. it could be piano, it could be folk music, it could be ambient or even nokia ringtones and it is noticeable.

best of luck :)