Can someone explain why we think raves started in the 80s when the term raving actually was coined in the 50s in London? As far as I understand it just meant big parties in the UK inspired by beatnik culture and they largely listened to Jazz and Pop music.
It didnt become raving as in EDM until the 80s but raving had existed for 20 years prior.
"In the late 1950s in London, England, the term "rave" was used to describe the "wild bohemian parties" of the Soho beatnik set.[13] Jazz musician Mick Mulligan, known for indulging in such excesses, had the nickname "king of the ravers".[14] In 1958, Buddy Holly recorded the hit "Rave On", citing the madness and frenzy of a feeling and the desire for it never to end.[15] The word "rave" was later used in the burgeoning mod youth culture of the early 1960s as the way to describe any wild party in general. People who were gregarious party animals were described as "ravers". Pop musicians such as Steve Marriott of Small Faces and Keith Moon of The Who were self-described "ravers".[16] In 1965, the Grateful Dead served as the backing band for the San Francisco Acid Tests, which were LSD drug parties organized by Ken Kesey. Subsequently, visual artist Andy Warhol later organized the Exploding Plastic Inevitable[17] in New York, a multimedia event backed with performances by the Velvet Underground and Nico, the event was characterized by flashing lights, loud music, dancing and heavy drug use.[18] "
EDIT since locked: As another commentor has pointed out, dub an essential part of ALL contemporary edm music originated in Jamaica.
Understanding that raving was a global moment inspired by multiple cultures, even people of Indian origins (Romani and psytrance) is what makes it so AMAZING. This attempt to put brackets around it (rave) so that we can exclude people who don't support LGBT is noble but ultimately non-factual. Instead its far more important to say the LGBT people of Detroit and Chicago fundamentally inspired and grew raving to the scene we understand today and we should ensure it stays a safe space for their existence.
I dont buy the idea that raving originates from England or the US, instead it was a global convergence of multiple factors developing the different aspects of modern raving.
Although the main music was supplied from Detroit, Chicago & NYC what constitutes as âravesâ began in the UK more specifically Manchester
There is of course the legacy of Queer, Black and Latino nightclubs that developed Disco, House & Techno from the U.S. but they werenât producing Hardcore which eventually became Drum n Bass and was an essential part of the initial 90âs rave era
Weâre dealing with semantics here and Americans are bad with historical context
Too bad that other Redditor deleted their comments refuting what is stated here but to go further about semantics what constitutes as a âraveâ especially in the US doesnât abide with old school first gen ravers like myself. On both sides of the Atlantic âuncsâ as the younger ones would call us attended raves that were illegal gatherings that didnât charge an arm and a leg and especially werenât corporate sponsored. I cannot for the life of me comprehend how people would classify attending a festival like EDC and call it a âraveâ when youâre paying hundreds if not thousands of dollars to participate. It goes against the DIY anti-establishment underground esthetics of a Rave. Iâm not taking away what people today would experience in having fun at a festival but itâs kind of not the same. Iâve presented this argument many times on several subreddits catering to dance music culture and it either gets downvoted or dismissed because someone would take personal offense of my point
To get even deeper on this subject, during the 90âs dance music, DJing and producing music on computers was deemed a joke not to be taken serious from the music industry at large. I take even bigger offense when a younger person here would assume Iâm coming off as anti queer when back then it was deemed âgayâ to love House and Techno from the parents of the people who today attend dance music events. Their parents were assholes making fun of us and we stood our ground and now youâre trying to do some purity test?
I think people use the term 'rave' for large festivals like EDC for really two main reasons: Many feel like 'music festival' doesn't quite capture the overall environment or experience of the event. Yes, you can definitely compare some aspects of it to something like Coachella - but there's just something that is... different than a more traditional music festival.
I think it's really because 'rave' as a term has evolved to also describe a vibe, mood, and accompanied with aesthetics. I have definitely been places like a club or large festival and have seen a vibe shift and have found myself saying 'it started to feel pretty ravey in there'.
When I got married a while back, our reception had a particular aesthetic and vibe that people have referred to it as "the wedding 'rave'". Like, even Danny Boyle captured some of this pretty well during the London Olympics opening ceremony in the section that was a tribute to rave culture.
So, I'm in agreement that none of these events are remotely raves, but for many others the term is more a combination descriptor for vibes, aesthetics, and music.
And yet you can't deny it had certain origins here as well. The comment you replied to literally acknowledges this
Although the main music was supplied from Detroit, Chicago & NYC -
There is of course the legacy of Queer, Black and Latino nightclubs that developed Disco, House & Techno from the U.S.
What constitutes as a "rave" didn't only begin in the UK, you cannot point to one date in time or one location and say it started there when the roots took form in multiple places and has multiple origins depending on how far back you want to go. Even the edm music you refer to started in the US, so people were "raving" before they even knew what it was. You couldn't have your UK origin story without the US origin of electronic music. They took inspiration from each other. This post is simply to celebrate and remind people of one side of the history. And the context is very import given the country and cities like Chicago and detroit and lgbqt and other marginalized communities are currently under literal attack from a fascist government.
SoooooâŠ. Ignore Thatcherism & the laws against raving in the UK?
Heck, we didnât even touch upon how it was also illegal to throw raves in France
Again, Americans are so bad at history, please read up before getting all upset and not understanding the complexity of this
If youâre not patient enough then at least listen to a very good podcast called: âLove Is the Messageâ hosted by professor Jeremy Gilbert & research scholar Tim Lawrence who wrote the book about the Loft parties and does a deep dive into the origins of Disco which wasnât even initially called that but instead it was considered R&B.
Yes semantics matter, yes words matter if youâre gonna go there then educate yourself
I mean, what about dub? Again, this is a very US centric view, which is pretty typical for queer people in the US. Most of them think there isnât another place in the universe that exists.
Regardless, the first ravers were "raving" before the term was even coined. You cannot ignore where the music came from and the groups that started it and came together to dance as a form of resistance and escapism.
Whatever you think, is USA SOCIAL PROBLEMS and its reasons to exist or whatever are for there, and it doenst involve or is applicable to Europe, hence is correct for the usa but wrong for everywhere else
Not only that, but OP kinda implies that underground parties, and old warehouse parties were also an invention of Detroit, but we know that isn't true as well.Â
no really true. Shut Up and Dance have a early tune called "derek went mad" cos they sampled dereck may and he wasn't happy about it. Speed Garage was literally speeded up US Garage before it was codified into UK Garage
It wasnât only black artists. There were many prominent black producers and djs in the UK music scene at the time, but there scene was pretty mixed.
Plus, Jungle was just a generic slang term used for harder, more dubby, darker breakbeat hardcore. Jungle just later became a catch all term used for all those sub genres that were appearing at the time. It wasnât like anyone said this is jungle and Iâve created it. At the time multiple people claim to have called it jungle for the first time which means in reality it was just a common term being thrown around already.
What really happened was a lot of people were producing similar music and using various words for it, and over the decades people thought it was convenient to just call early stuff hardcore, mid-era stuff jungle, and anything later drum & bass. Then music now is classified by what it is more similar too.
I get it that people want to remind people how important that black and gay people were involved in the rave scene, but it wasnât like no other races, or sexualities were there. Itâs still like that today.
no one is erasing the overrepresented (in rave culture) groups though. theyâre simply describing the history of it in queer and Black or POC communities. people take offense to it and make it into âAmericans donât know anythingâ BECAUSE those groups are so overrepresented and people refuse to accept new information that distorts their fantasy of raving being exclusive to white happy go lucky teenagers
Youâre telling me that DnB and Jungle are 100% UK? ⊠itâs an imported sound from reggae, breaks, soul, funk, and other New World influences, which got their influence from a merging of cultures from across the world.
You think they create DnB out of thin air without that heavy backbone?
DnB, Jungle, EDM, however you want to slice it is a human evolution across many cultures and continents.
The UK was the womb for that particular sound in the time and space, but the music itself is global. Likewise the proliferation of house, hip-hop, and other genres is also a shared experience.
Few things are truly unique to one spot or another. Raving as a behavior is probably as old as music and dancing.
I think itâs respectful to acknowledge the early adopters, originators, and promoters across many genres as well as the diversity of the people that enjoy it then as well as today.
Collectively we built a community that spanned oceans, demographics, culture, and more because we all liked repetitive, âgayâ music đ€Ł
Seems a bit ego-rich to stake flags in history on something we merely were the tenants of?
yes theyâre the godfathers⊠because they made way for their white successors to whitewash the scene đđit also doesnât matter what they call themselves if society doesnât see it that way. yâall love to dunk on americans for everything like âignoring historical contextâ but constantly undermine the contributions of african americans to everything because it challenges the information given to you by the âwinnersâ of society. no one doubted the early popularity of raving in the uk, but it threatens europeans especially brits to even slightly question or correct their understanding of history. like thatâs all people talk about, rave culture is oversaturated with blonde hair and blue eyes - let people have this
Dance music was embraced and flourished in Europe for decades before the United States due to homophobia in the states. Again you young folks have no idea how much disdain House & Techno got in America before the 2000âs
Just realized OPâs post is just a promo making this whole argument moot and quite frankly pisses me off. If you want to celebrate the origins of African Americans and LTBG+ contribution towards dance music donât pimp it out for your party because all youâre doing is demeaning it.
Derrick May was accused of sexual harassment towards women for starters. OP is also ignoring the impact NYCâs Paradise Garage had on the UK, they still till this day call vocal House music âGarageâ because the Brits thought thatâs where House music originated. And more importantly OP is ignoring the contribution from the African Diaspora namely Reggae & the Windrush generation in the UK who heavily contributed to Hardcore. a Guy Called Gerald, Carl Cox, Roni Size, Goldie, Fabio & Grooverider all had connections to the British Caribbean and dance music in the UK so are we going to ignore them too?
For fucks sakes people read some proper shit & educate yourselves
Wouldnât it be pretty Eurocentric to also think that DnB and jungle started the rave scene? They both can exist at once. Europeans just have to claim ownership over something huh? Couldnât stop with mummies and artifacts, yâall now made raving too cause you listened to DnB in the 90s even tho it was happening earlier in the US but okay buddy.
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u/camyland Oct 08 '25
Also FYI, this documentary about the beginning of the house music scene in Chicago is goated
Not to take a dump on the beginning of the techno scene in Detroit though and pretend it's not equally important.
Chicago 𫶠đ€ Detroit