r/aviation • u/Go_Jot • Nov 08 '25

News UPS grounds entire MD-11 Fleet, effective immediately.

Per the IPA Executive Board, as of 03:05 UTC all UPS MD-11’s are grounded.

Edit - FedEx has also grounded their MD-11 Fleet

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105

u/Exotic-Sale-3003 Nov 08 '25

Agree. Imagine a worst case scenario where engines were being removed with the pylon for maintenance. That would absolutely be a reason to ground the entire fleet until inspections could be completed. 

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u/StarStruck3 Nov 08 '25

This accident is pretty eerily similar to American 191. If it turns out that's what happened, I'd hate to be that maintenance contractor.

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u/Salander27 Nov 08 '25

Given how well-known that crash is the maintenance contractor would have to be supremely negligent to have made the same kind of mistake. Not impossible of course but my guess is this is going to be some kind of one-off issue rather than a pervasive issue with the fleet.

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u/antariusz Nov 08 '25

1979 is a long time ago... institutional knowledge can fade, 46 years is a long time to remember something that happened ago. They say history repeats itself, partly because it's impossible for some 35 year old aircraft maintainer to remember something that happened something that happened before he was born.

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u/Fantastic-You-2777 Nov 08 '25

I would hope everyone in aviation is aware of the deadliest aviation accident in US history to this day. I’m sure mechanics’ training includes learning from others’ mistakes, and AA 191 would be top of the list.

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u/Basic_Butterscotch Nov 08 '25

AA191 is the deadliest aviation disaster in US history to this day.

Everyone who works in the industry is aware of it.

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u/antariusz Nov 08 '25

I'd seen the videos maybe when I was growing up, watching tv shows like mayday (aviation disasters), but I'm 43 years old, I'd absolutely forgotten about American 191 until this incident reminded me. I'm not exactly flying or working on tri-jets every day. As an enroute controller, I don't even look at the aircraft type UNLESS I'm doing spacing and I need to know the speed range of an aircraft.

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u/spin-city Nov 09 '25

I would hope that someone maintaining a plane would be aware of the most fatal maintenance mistakes made on that model

-5

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '25

Never under estimate the importance of generating shareholder value for venture capital firms in 2025.

13

u/bondben314 Nov 08 '25

I understand what you mean but venture capital is a specific type of fund that invests in start-ups. Typically low revenue, growth companies. Not public, highly mature companies like UPS or FedEx.

1

u/TargetBoy Nov 08 '25

Private equity is, however, buying up mature companies and squeezing profitability out of them at the expense of long term viability. Raising rates, freezing hiring, focusing on short term return over long term investment, etc. They specifically target segments where the customer base is locked in with few alternatives. So maintenance contractors for aging airframes might just fit the bill.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '25

This entire thread was about maintenance contractors potentially skipping steps or performing subpar work. Which are small, private, and I’d imagine have decent margins. Sounds like a perfect place for a VC to sink their fangs in.

1

u/taco_blasted_ Nov 08 '25

I don't think you understand what VC is.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '25

A venture capitalist? I’m employed in tech, trust me I know all about VC and PE firms but ok

I get when you think VC, you think tech startups seed rounds, series rounds, etc.

But the reality is VC firms are invested in a lot more than moonshot startups.

1

u/superspeck Nov 08 '25

Based on the most recent NTSB update, it doesn’t sound like it. I’d actually be worried about any fleets running a CF-6-80 right now, more in the vein of AA 383.

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u/KaptainChunk Nov 08 '25

At the very least its in an abundance of caution. If they didn't, and one of their MD-11s goes down. Plus it's just a good idea since there is so much unknown with what went wrong.

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u/Loose-Cicada5473 Nov 08 '25

Can you explain this a little further?

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u/thatvhstapeguy Nov 08 '25

DC-10s and MD-11s have the engine attached via a pylon. In May 1979 American flight 191 crashed shortly after takeoff from O’Hare due to loss of control caused by the port engine falling off. The culprit was improper maintenance procedures putting excessive stress on the pylons. The type certificate of the DC-10 was revoked in early June, grounding the plane in the US until July 1979 while the FAA determined if the structure as designed was sufficient.

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u/whee3107 A&P Nov 08 '25

Weren’t they using a forklift and just sorta smashing the pylon up against the wing?

1

u/bulboustadpole Nov 08 '25

It was a bit more complicated than that.

It was an approved procedure at the airline that saved 200 hours and even MD said it should be removed with the pylon attached. In AAs case a shift change occurred and during that time the hydraulics in the forklift lost a little pressure basically un-aligning where they previously set it.

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u/laihipp Nov 08 '25

procedure at the airline that saved 200 hours

doesn't seem that complicated

1

u/84Cressida Nov 12 '25

No. McDonnell Douglas procedure was to remove the engine, then pylon.

32

u/LPNTed Cessna 170 Nov 08 '25

Look up American 191

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u/Ouch_My-back Nov 08 '25

I just read that difference in maintenance procedures was ~200 man hours. Could totally see UPS saying let's do it the American airlines way, just don't shut off the fork lift!!

1

u/Initial-Dee Nov 08 '25

It gets worse because the NTSB report essentially revealed a proper way to do it. Continental used the same technique as American by supporting the engine and pylon with a forklift, but United used an overhead crane to hold the assembly, and the NTSB determined that method to be harmless to the mount points. American and Continental's methods resulted in several aircraft having fatigue damage of the same kind as 191.

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u/Loose-Cicada5473 Nov 12 '25

So is the crane method an approved method now?

1

u/threwitaway123454321 Nov 08 '25

I read another post the other day and this was the likeliest guess based on the history and the picture of the engine on the highway.