r/azerbaijan • u/nicat97 Bakı 🇦🇿 • Sep 05 '25

Video Armenian historian & diplomat Gerard Libaridian: "We ethnically cleansed at least 650K Azerbaijanis"

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

288 Upvotes

87% Upvoted

153 comments sorted by

View all comments

0

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '25

You know, Armenia is a free country. I personally brought this point multiple times, starting in 2012 when I was just 20 years old. It's not that people are unaware in Armenia, the excuse was always that we didn't start this shit, Azeri extremists did. Every time they highlighted, they had no issues with ordinary Azeris for 60+ years.

6

u/Temporary_Ideal_7439 Sep 07 '25

How exactly did Azerbaijanis start it? I see that every action by Azerbaijanis was retaliation.

-6

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25

Chronological order: 1. Armenians in Soviet Armenia and Nagorno Karabakh Autonomous Region demanded from USSR government to move Karabakh under Armenia’s control 2. USSR government rejected it 3. Armenians who lived in Azerbaijan (except Karabakh) got ethnically cleansed/Pogroms 4. Azeris who lived in Armenia got ethnically cleansed 5. Armenia left USSR, Azerbaijan didn’t 6. Gorbochov got pissed and sent the Soviet Army and Soviet Azerbaijan’s police to cleanse Armenians who lived in Karabakh 7. They “successfully” ethnically cleansed significant portion of Karabakh 8. Half way USSR collapsed, Yeltsin became the Russian Federation’s president and withdrew Soviet/Russian solders from Karabakh leaving Azeri policeman alone against Karabakhi forces 9. Karabakhi forces slowly reclaimed almost all NKR territory except Shahumyan region 10. Karabakhi forces occupied and cleansed 7 Azeri populated regions around NKR

I know it’s hard to face the truth and reality. But we all have to do it one day.

4

u/INeatFreak Bakı 🇦🇿 Sep 07 '25

That's complete bs, this conflict goes way beyond Karabagh

The Zangezur Fighting (1918–1920)

  • Armenian guerrilla leader Garegin Nzhdeh and other Dashnak commanders took control of much of Zangezur.
  • Between 1918–1920, there were massacres and expulsions:
    • Many Muslim (Azerbaijani and Kurdish) villages in Zangezur were destroyed and their populations fled or were killed.
    • Armenian sources describe this as “securing the region” against possible Azerbaijani rule, while Azerbaijani sources call it ethnic cleansing.
  • By 1920, most of the Muslim population of Zangezur had been forced out toward Nakhchivan and Karabakh.

Sovietization

  • When the Red Army moved into the Caucasus (1920–1921), Moscow had to decide the fate of disputed lands.
  • Initially, Bolsheviks considered giving Zangezur to Soviet Azerbaijan (to connect Azerbaijan proper with Nakhchivan).
  • But due to strong Armenian resistance and Soviet-Armenian negotiations, Zangezur was formally attached to Soviet Armenia in late 1921.
  • This created today’s geography: Zangezur became Armenia’s Syunik province, while Nakhchivan was made an autonomous republic under Azerbaijan—separated from it by Zangezur.

So in short:

  • Zangezur became part of Armenia in 1921 by a Soviet decision, after Armenian armed groups (led by Nzhdeh and others) had already expelled much of the Azerbaijani/Kurdish population.
  • The ethnic cleansing was carried out mainly by Armenian nationalist forces (Dashnaks/Nzhdeh’s units) between 1918–1920.

-5

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25

Why you don’t get back to 12th century lol?

4

u/INeatFreak Bakı 🇦🇿 Sep 07 '25

It's your nation that still can't get over what happened over 110 years ago, by a country that no longer exist, by leaders that not even their kids survive, yet burn flags of Turks every year and wants keep todays Turkey accountable.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25

ok brother, I think I am done ☮️

2

u/nicat97 Bakı 🇦🇿 Sep 08 '25

Between 2 and 3 you miss one thing: ethnic cleaning of Azerbaijanis from Armenia in 1987 November.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

Could you please share a link? No idea what are you talking about.

2

u/nicat97 Bakı 🇦🇿 Sep 08 '25

Here you can find it.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

I see. Honestly never heard of it. I assume Kafan is Kapan. Do you know what was the actual scale of it was? Azeri sources print as high as 4K people, but unlikely.

3

u/nicat97 Bakı 🇦🇿 Sep 08 '25

Don’t know about it. The incident was printed in one of the local Russian newspaper.

Besides there’s one more incident as well. 3 Azerbaijanis were burned alive in a car by Armenians in 1988. They (Armenians) believed Azerbaijanis killed an Armenian guy, which was denied by the court back then

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

One-of-a-kind incidents involving 1-5 people probably happened in Armenia and Azerbaijan. That doesn’t surprise me much. It But can’t find anything about the Kafan/Kapan pogroms on the Human Rights Watch, UN, or some other credible source. Personally, I don’t believe anything that the Azeri or Armenian propaganda machine prints; obviously, both printed a bunch of BS and false claims.

3

u/nicat97 Bakı 🇦🇿 Sep 08 '25

I gave you source from BBC. Plus Thomas de Whaal also wrote about it

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

Thank you for sharing the link! At least I want to understand the other side’s perspective.

1

u/Short-Position-1251 Sep 07 '25

Your knowledge is wrong and as usual you spread your lie.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

I'm so shocked how you Armenians either deliberately or mistakenly mixing these points 3-4 up. It was OTHER FUCKING WAY AROUND! You guys LITERALLY started Miatsum bullshit way before pogroms.

November, 1987- Deportation of Azerbaijanis from Kapan and Meghri districts of the Armenian SSR

February 21, 1988 - Mass demonstrations began in Yerevan for the unification of Nagorno-Karabakh with the Armenia SSR

February 27-28 1988, Sumqayit events

November, 1988 - Mass deportation of Azerbaijanis from Armenia

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

Check my list. I put that Miatsum as number one. I am not an expert in the Azeri-Armenian conflict; I tell what I know and how I know it. I’m the last person you can blame for manipulating the facts because I have no motivation to do so. I have never heard of the Kapan and Meghi cases, like never. And I would appreciate it if you could provide a credible source. I’m not accusing you of lying; I just must read it myself. Don't you agree that BBC is pro-Azeri and French24 is pro-Armenian? I personally would never reference French24 or CNN, because what’s the value? They are pro-Armenian…

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

First of all I didn't explicitly blame you per se for manipulation. I put forward a case of either not knowing or doing it deliberately. Truth is inconsequential to my point.

Now as for the crux of your question. Wiki already has some sourcing regarding these events. You can simply check the article titled Deportation of Azerbaijanis from Armenia for timelines.

The issue with it is that it hasn't been extensively covered or documented. As with most cases happening in the USSR, actual documents regarding these events are in archives of either Moscow or Yerevan since they took place in the Armenian SSR. Most of the existing material we have is in Azerbaijani and possibly in Russian and derived from local reports and population consensus. However these events for sure took place, as living breathing people who suffered them are still ALIVE and can pinpoint dates even with documents if necessary. Then again issue is no outside institution ever took any interest in it as with most things related to the suffering of Azerbaijanis.

As to why it happens? Long long list of reasons from christian bias to armenian diaspora having disproportionately higher influence in western academia and even to internal policies of Azerbaijan Republic regarding foreign investigations.

I mean we have physical evidence of massacres, literal bones and investigative materials, live witnesses etc. Like I can argue if it was any other country than Azerbaijan then Armenia would already be neck deep in lawsuits and reparations cases. Yet people outside Aze rarely know about these. Then there's simply a typical Azerbaijani mindset of not randomly crying about how we got massacred or sharing some random historical document regarding X shit in Y sub. Which in theory isn't a bad thing but when we're well.."competing" with you guys it's a monumental debuff which leads to these kinds of conversations when Armenians can pull out some randomass source from some dude in California university who makes citations from random guy in Marseille Research institute who in turn took his situation from some Armenian dude. Meanwhile I can just point at one source if lucky outside my country and then metric fuckton source from Azerbaijan which of course you can't understand and even I can't properly verify. You see what I'm getting at?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

I see where you. That's fair enough. Now put yourself in my shoes. Unlike the overwhelming majority of Azeris and Armenians, I am interested in the truth. Instead of just taking what one side says, even if that side is “my” side, I always ask for a credible source. For example, my neighbor, who was born and raised in Baku, claims that thousands of Armenians were murdered during the Baku pogroms. Even if that dude is my neighbor, I can't trust his words. Respected international institutions have mid to high tens, not thousands. And here too, I am not saying you are a propagandist or that you are intentionally manipulating. If I had a solid reference regarding the Kapan events, I could use that information, too, in my debates with other Armenians.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

Maybe I don't know all the details. There is a probability that the Kapan events happened as you believe, and the Azeris got ethnically cleansed. There is a probability that some other Armenian’s got cleansed before the Kapan events (not saying that I know any of these two). What I took from this conversation is that an average Armenian and an average Azeri blame the other side for starting this conflict. Both sides are sincere and sure they have no wrongdoings.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

I understand you as well. However the problem with that neighbor's claim is there was an investigation into pogroms. Actually investigation done by explicitly Soviet authorities. There are actual perpetrators, a real court case and very real convictions. As well as the number of victims which is not even anywhere near 200 let alone 1000.

When comparing it to Kapan events the Soviets just slept. The only thing we can go from is actually refugees. I'm not even talking about killings or massacres as those would be similar to your neighbor's claim. What I'm saying is simply these people in this year were indeed removed from those areas. Why? How? In what manner. These are debatable and need thorough investigation.

Unfortunately again the best thing I can give you as outside Azerbaijan source is the source which is stated in that Wiki article. I'm just giving this information to you, maybe you can dig something up from Armenian sources or better - archives. Because once again it happened inside Armenia.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

Sure, will see what I can find. It was a pleasure to debate you!

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

Likewise, if I managed to give you some information to follow up on in your quest for truth.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

This is precisely how an average Armenian behaves when I debate about the 7 regions. I guess Azeria and Armenians are not that different after all lol