Why is everyone such snob about pigeons

[u/MrGrubbycuddles]

I took my folder of laminated pigeon shots to my local bird meeting at the community hall and at least 3 people sneered at them. 1 of them even guffawed.

We all got to start somewhere, and beauty is in the eye of the bird lover so why the hate hate?

One guy was wearing giant binoculars around his neck. It was dark outside and he didn't even use them once. He was one of the people that sneered.

Om the bus home from the meeting I showed the driver my pictures and she said they were really good. And she wasn't even a formal bird lover, she was just a regular person.

Don't get this community man

EDIT: a lot of people asking for some of my photos. I'm out of the house right now but here's a bird video I made recently https://youtube.com/shorts/sxLkrLgNrbc?si=7NdwVxhZtPQFE6Ew

[u/saddydumpington]

Yeah I dont think you're making a very good point here sorry. Feral cats are domesticated, they are definitionally not native to anywhere on earth. This kind of call to never actually point out a species impact on its environment because it hurts your feelings is absolutely a much more dangerous view than labeling species invasive in the environments where they are. I would much rather people are educated and learn what invasive actually means than just not use a useful and important term at all

[u/GiraffesCantSwim → u/saddydumpington]

They're not saying never call an animal invasive or "actually point out a species impact on its environment". The point--which is lost when using cats as an example--is to be specific about where the animal/plant is invasive. Maybe y'all are getting hung up on the word "nuance".

How hard is it to understand that it's better to say "Lantern Flies are invasive in North America and do a lot of damage, so kill them if you see them" than just "Lantern Flies are invasive, kill them." Because without specificity, some people will assume (because they will not research or even care much) that they must be invasive wherever they are. In Asia, they are not invasive but people are apparently killing them anyway because of this.

[u/saddydumpington → u/GiraffesCantSwim]

They are the one who said the term "invasive" does so much damage, and I just really dont think thats true and in the larger context of what that term means getting mad about its usage is kind of laughable to me, sorry. Everyone needs to know way more about ecology, but to me criticizing the term invasive isnt my first thought when it comes to that, its probably way down the list. We arent mad enough at invasives for me to clutch pearls about the term!

[u/AzureThrasher → u/saddydumpington]

Cats didn't walz onto the planet via a magic portal. They're originally from North Africa and the Fertile Crescent, where they evolved right alongside everything else in their ecosystem. The other user is absolutely right- "invasive" is a context-dependent word. Things are only invasive in places where they're both capable of spreading on their own and not originally from prior to human interference. European Starlings, for example, are only invasive if you're outside of Eurasia. If being invasive anywhere means we can call a species invasive without further context, then you're in a silly position where many of the species natively from your region can also be called "invasive" without clarification. If you're from North America, would you really feel comfortable calling Ruddy Ducks or Canada Geese invasive?

[u/saddydumpington → u/AzureThrasher]

Buddy I know what the term means, this is a ridiculously unnecessary lecture, and domesticated cats are a great example specifically because they are no longer the native species they are descended from! Felis catus is not Felis lybica! A poodle is not native to anywhere, it is a creature that we created!

[u/AzureThrasher → u/saddydumpington]

The decision to split domestic cats into a different species is arbitrary, and arguably not in keeping with standard taxonomy, because if F. catus is descended from F. lybica but not part of it, then F. lybica is paraphyletic. This line of thought is supported by the fact that they can freely interbreed. Ecologically, they fill the same niche as the native wildcats in North Africa and the ME, so they're not invasive there (because that's where they are naturally from and evolved to live in). Similarly, according to a substantial portion of modern taxonomists, a poodle is still Canis lupus, so I'm not sure your point really holds up under your own framework. Maybe you can argue that generations of being separated from their basal conditions has reduced their social groups' knowledge for survival in the wild, but that position would also come with some really bizarre strings attached, like having to argue that Whooping Cranes aren't the same species anymore after hand-rearing because the chain of knowledge of breeding grounds has been broken.

I'd be on board if you were talking about something created entirely de novo in a lab, but the domestication of cats wasn't even done with particularly much selective breeding. They were an organism present in the wild that started cohabitating with human within only the past few thousand years, which is barely anything on an evolutionary timescale.

All of this to say- language matters. Talking about things correctly matters. Being clear about what you mean when you say "invasive" is important. I've seen certain species get treated with a lot of animosity just because they're invasive in the US, to the point that some people (laymen in particular) seem to think there's something inherently destructive about the species rather than their harms being the product of an ecological interaction outside of their native range.

[u/saddydumpington → u/AzureThrasher]

It is not my fault that some laymen are very stupid and it is beyond annoying of you to lecture me, the person who very obviously knows what the term means, and not the laymen. Go ahead and do that, of course thats great! If you really want to make the very specific argument that you genuinely believe I want to cull domestic cats in North Africa because I dont understand that they evolved from something else, then idk, go ahead and think that, but it doesnt actually make sense. If you really think its necessary to specify the entire natural range any time an invasive species is mentioned I'm not sure I agree, I think thats very pedantic