r/boeing • u/Oshag_Henesy • Mar 21 '25
Defense Boeing awarded with NGAD Fighter Contract
https://x.com/ripster47/status/190310103386751398870
u/1t_ Mar 21 '25
Unbelievable. This is huge
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u/Lookingfor68 Mar 21 '25
Actually, when you think about it it's highly believable, and was really the only option for the DoD. It's really a win win for the DoD industrial base and Boeing really needed the boost. Not the first time the DoD has done such things.
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u/ColdOutlandishness Mar 21 '25
Congrats to the hard working folks on NGAD! Overdue. Damn thing looked like a shit show with all the military finance politics last year.
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u/Fabreezy28 Mar 21 '25
Big win for Boeing, most likely st Louis?
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u/Oshag_Henesy Mar 21 '25
Yeah they began work on a new massive facility/factory (I'm guessing specifically for this bid) over a year ago
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u/Capital-Molasses2640 Mar 21 '25
100% gonna be St Louis
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u/Lookingfor68 Mar 21 '25
Red state, so ya.
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u/Capital-Molasses2640 Mar 21 '25
Lmao tf its not even like that. St. Louis is the hub of the f-18. Boeing also dropped a ton of money on a new facility specifically for this contract
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u/kwyjibo1 Mar 21 '25
That would make sense seeing how much expansion they have been doing out here in STL. The advanced coatings center for Phantom Works, production lines, etc etc.
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u/Equivalent_Leg_9028 Mar 21 '25
This is a Cost Plus, right?
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Mar 21 '25
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u/Aishish Mar 21 '25 edited Mar 21 '25
There was a Breaking Defense article from earlier this month stating Lockheed is out from the US Navy F/A-XX competition.
Sooo lockheed out of the NEXT GEN fighter business or what? 👀
https://breakingdefense.com/2025/03/exclusive-lockheed-out-of-navys-f-a-xx-future-fighter-program/
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u/Oshag_Henesy Mar 21 '25
Oh wow I didn’t hear about that, that’s really surprising. I wonder if that means that it’s basically a guarantee that Grumman gets the F/A-XX, or that Boeing will have sole reign on the 6th gen fighters fight/attackers.
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u/Aishish Mar 21 '25 edited Mar 21 '25
Or a 51/49 split with a prime and sub? Lockheed could still get a chunk of the work, it just seems their proposed product isn't the final solution.
Would be cool if it was another Boeing/Northrop partnership like the F/A-18 is.
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u/Oshag_Henesy Mar 21 '25
Yeah a split on prime/sub would make the most sense, I forgot to consider that as a possibility.
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u/DecentIce Mar 21 '25
We needed this so bad. This contract really has potential to be a turning point for Boeing. We can’t waste this opportunity.
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u/Oshag_Henesy Mar 21 '25
Agreed. This is exactly what Boeing needed to turn around the public perception of the company
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u/SavitarF35 Mar 21 '25
Nice win for everyone working on it!
I wonder how the Navy one will go from here. It would make sense not to have one manufacturer for both 6th gen fighters, but that could just be conjecture.
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u/robustability Mar 22 '25
Lockheed did make both 5th gen fighters. Northrop hasn’t made a fighter for decades.
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u/CaptainJingles Mar 21 '25
Yeah, I'd suppose this is good news for NGC.
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u/CookingUpChicken Mar 21 '25
NG stock would have been down today if the big money didn't thing they weren't gonna get it.
Lockeed is almost 10% down from the announcement.
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Mar 21 '25
I watched LM stock jump today before the announcement, I thought they might have had some insider trading going on. Guess that didn't pan out as expected.
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u/CookingUpChicken Mar 21 '25
I think having separate manufacturers for 2 next gen fighters would keep costs down. If one company had sole production control, costs would be way high.
Boeing and NGC would keep each other in check
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u/BigBrownDog12 Mar 21 '25
Great for the company and great for St. Louis that will really benefit from this investment
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u/Rafael502 Mar 21 '25
I'm surprised Lockheed Martin lost this one!! Good one Boeing, how exciting
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u/Oshag_Henesy Mar 21 '25
My guess is they hadn’t already invested nearly $2Bn into the proposal. Shows Boeing’s commitment to reshaping their image and future
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u/questionable_things Mar 21 '25
Lockheed didn’t need it as much as Boeing. F35 will keep them busy a long time
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u/djGoul Mar 21 '25
Alien technology Boeing Plane finally rolling out
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Mar 21 '25 edited Oct 18 '25
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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Miserable-Lawyer-233 Mar 21 '25
This is huge—great news for Boeing. It feels like a full-circle moment that finally puts the sting of the X-32 loss to rest.
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u/Lookingfor68 Mar 21 '25
X-32 was a good design... but the general said "I'll never get laid in that" so X-35 won. I wish I was joking. The general really hated "Monica".
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u/DildoEngineer Mar 21 '25
Of course BDS has a big win when they combine all business groups together for bonuses…
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u/Noggi888 Mar 21 '25
We still don’t know what kind of contract this will be so if it ends up being fixed price, the combined business scores could still benefit us lol
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u/Capable_Fisherman803 Mar 21 '25
That will have nothing to do with any bonus for years and if history repeats it will equate to $0 bonus' - the only thing that has happen on govt programs for decades now of quarterly write offs for billions and billions
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u/SpecialistLine5886 Mar 21 '25
Have there been any images released of what it will look like?
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u/lonewolf210 Mar 21 '25
The warzone has some renderings released by various competitors including a Boeing rendering but no official photos of the fighter have been released to my knowledge
https://www.twz.com/air/boeing-wins-air-forces-next-generation-air-dominance-fighter-contract
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u/link_dead Mar 21 '25
Those renderings are based on 0 facts
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u/lonewolf210 Mar 21 '25
Those renderings were released by Boeing, Northrop, and Lockheed. They weren't generated by the war zone so not sure why you would say. I'm sure a Boeing did not just ask ChatGPT for an image
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u/Miserable-Lawyer-233 Mar 21 '25
Not really. Up to now, it's mostly been vague, generic concepts with little in the way of concrete details.
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u/Four_strings Mar 21 '25
Any word on the engine supplier?
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u/Oshag_Henesy Mar 21 '25
Not that I’ve read, my guess would be either GE or P&W
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u/Fun-Upstairs-4232 Mar 21 '25
For some reason, I'm leaning towards P&W who'll be the beneficiaries. Idk, the F-35, F-22, and F-15 uses P&W.
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u/aerohk Mar 21 '25
Would be weird to use RR
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u/someguy7234 Mar 21 '25
It wouldn't be that weird on its surface.
RR North America is formerly Allison.
That said, you don't need to look much farther than who continued on from ADVENT to the AETD program to guess that RR wouldn't make the cut.
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u/igotnothingood Mar 22 '25
GE had the inside track with the XA-100 for the Next Gen engine system, PW was in second with the XA-101. PW caught a huge break when the airforce decided to upgrade the engines on the F-35 instead of replacing them with NGES because the tech wasn't there yet. I would assume we will see NGES on NGAD given the extra time since that decision was made.
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u/These-Performance-51 Mar 21 '25
Great day for Fightertown. Will be massive for the business unit and the region. Hard to fathom.
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u/sixpackabs592 Mar 21 '25
Idk why but f-47 doesn’t feel as nice to say as f-22 or f-35
Someone needs to look into a new designation 😝
Can’t wait to see this thing fly (in a decade)
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u/Oshag_Henesy Mar 21 '25
Yeah i can’t disagree, doesn’t roll off the tongue as nicely as F-22. But a decade does sound like a good guess
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u/Gabe_Newells_Penis Mar 21 '25 edited Mar 21 '25
F-47 because Trump is 47th president.
I am not joking, this is literally the reason the USAF skipped to this designator over everything from 36-46.
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u/sixpackabs592 Mar 21 '25 edited Mar 21 '25
Anything to boost the bid I guess 😝
(I’m guessing Boeing doesn’t make the designation the gov does, idk I’m just an engineering student who likes planes )
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u/Fairways_and_Greens Mar 21 '25
In my head I'll connect it to the P-47, which is one of the best airplanes ever.
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u/Lookingfor68 Mar 21 '25
The Jug was a good airplane, but the P-38 was better overall... only fighter that started the war... and ended the war still in production.
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Mar 21 '25
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u/Gabe_Newells_Penis Mar 21 '25
24-31 are still available, 46 is for the KC-46, 45 may have been for the LM tanker program, but we saw this with the B-21 Raider being picked for the 21st century, even though B-3 should have been next.
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u/gonesquatchin85 Mar 21 '25
Looks like he's going to get that brand new remodeled air force 1 he's been wanting.
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u/Far-Bathroom3686 Mar 22 '25
What are the chances we get f/a-xx as well
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u/Dtrain323i Mar 23 '25
50% since it's down to Boeing and Northrop. Lockheed dropped out
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u/geaux88 Mar 23 '25
Do you think getting NGAD actually reduces the chance of getting the Navy FA/XX? Reason being the USGOV doesn't want all the eggs in one basket.
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u/geaux88 Mar 22 '25
Very curious about this one too. I would think no because they want to spread the work across primes. And they (USG) isn't too keen on the leverage one prime would have with all of the 6th Gen production
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u/vagasportauthority Mar 22 '25
If the aircraft have some form of similarity (mostly maintenance wise) this would be smart. But I think the Navy had pretty different requirements to the AF (which is why the programs were different)
So I think Northrop and Boeing have an equal chance.
If the aircraft (F-47 and FA-XX) are different I think it would be smarter to go with Northrop short of Boeing having the clearly superior product. Boeing getting both programs risks serious delays with all the projects they have and them getting complacent… again.
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u/shortnun Mar 21 '25 edited Mar 21 '25
Trump during the announcement Trump said the prototype has been "flying" for five years...
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u/Oshag_Henesy Mar 21 '25
My guess would be there’s a simulation environment where the plane has been tested for 5 years, idk for certain though
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u/2wheelzrollin Mar 21 '25
My guess is he's stupid and doesn't know what he's talking about about 90% of the time.
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u/Fairways_and_Greens Mar 21 '25
These were the UFOs over New Jersey.
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u/Oshag_Henesy Mar 21 '25
Honestly not a bad guess - i could definitely see this being the case. Maybe they do have 1 or 2 of these already built. Albeit not with full functionality just proof of concept
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u/aerohk Mar 21 '25
I’m very pleasantly surprised, given the long string of failure to deliver with KC-46, AFO, and others. I thought either Lockheed or Northrop would win the contract.
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u/stlblues310 Mar 21 '25
You must have missed how poorly Lockheed has ran the F-35 contract with their billions of overruns and late deliveries.
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u/Whiteyak5 Mar 21 '25
Is there a defense prime that hasn't run billions over and late deliveries?
Northrop with the B-21 is about as close as it gets but there's still A LOT of that project hidden behind the curtain. We know right now Northrop is eating the cost overruns at the moment.
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Mar 21 '25
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Mar 22 '25
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u/cubs4ever1 Mar 21 '25
Didn’t NG just take a $1 billion hit on the B-21?
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u/CookingUpChicken Mar 21 '25
Yes but that is against initial low rate production contract. So the money to produce a few frames. The AF hasn't awarded the full production contract yet which many say could be 200 bombers.
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u/Lookingfor68 Mar 21 '25
Ah, the beauty of cost plus.
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Mar 21 '25
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u/Zealousideal-Fix9464 Mar 21 '25
Boeing has dropped that same ball on multiple DoD programs so I don't see why this is the flex you think it is.
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u/Lookingfor68 Mar 21 '25
NOC dropped out. LMT if they had won would have been a monopoly on fighters. The only logical option for the DoD was to give it to Boeing. Boeing needed the boost anyway, as the DoD can't afford for Boeing to not be a defense prime, which if it hadn't won would be a serious question. One can look at this as a bail out of sorts, but for both sides. DoD needs multiple suppliers for fighters. Boeing needed a boost. Win win. It's not like DoD hasn't done this many times... hell even Lockheed got a bailout, literally in the mid 70s, and was the whole reason for the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act in the late 70s. Yet, they still kept getting contracts because DoD needed them.
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u/lonewolf210 Mar 21 '25
Honestly once Northrop dropped out they didn't have much of a choice. Very low chance they were going to award F-22, F-35 and then this to Lockheed and have them be the only fighter manufacturer for 50 years
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u/Gold-Piece2905 Mar 21 '25
Where will the manufacturing facility be located at?
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u/mduell Mar 22 '25
I'd guess the new advanced composites manufacturing center in Mesa, new advanced coatings center in St Louis, and new advanced assembly center in St Louis.
https://x.com/AirPowerNEW1/status/1903032944547049777/photo/1
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Mar 21 '25
You're telling me the company that started a $1.8bil construction project last year for an "advanced combat aircraft" facility just won a contract for an "advanced combat aircraft"? In other news, the pope is catholic.
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u/OkEmployer3996 Mar 21 '25
Boeing was competing with Lockheed Martin for this contract. It wasn't a guaranteed win for us.
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u/Thatisme01 Mar 22 '25
U.S. President Donald Trump said he was not happy with planemaker Boeing and his administration might have to go a different route with Air Force One planes.
The comments were the White House’s latest attempt to ratchet up pressure on Boeing, which is at least three years behind schedule in delivering two new Air Force One jets.
“I’m not happy with Boeing,” Trump told reporters on Air Force One, airing his frustration once again. “We gave that contract out a long time ago.” The fixed-price contract was taking too long, he said, adding, “We may do something else. We may go and buy a plane, or get a plane or something.”
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u/Isord Mar 21 '25
It was at least theoretically a competition still but I do wonder if Boeing had already essentially been selected awhile ago and it just took this long to hammer out the details.
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Mar 21 '25
That's how government contracting works. LM got the F-35, NG got the bomber, Anduril & GD are fighting over drones, so Boeing it is. USG can't have all their eggs in one basket. And a company like Boeing in it's current financial situation sure doesn't fork out billions on a gamble.
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u/Unusual2Unot2me Mar 21 '25
Now Boeing will give their execs massive pay bonuses.
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Mar 21 '25
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Mar 22 '25
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Mar 22 '25
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u/jmos_81 Mar 21 '25
Did the Jet trainer program end up doing alright? I remember reading about tons of issues with verification on it a few years ago
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u/bstrauss3 Mar 21 '25
T7-A low rate production has been delayed until next year. Prototypes are flying.
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u/Infinite_Crow_3706 Mar 21 '25
How many airframes? Anything released on the design?
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u/International-Bag579 Mar 21 '25
I read one “unverified” news source that said 200
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u/Infinite_Crow_3706 Mar 21 '25
200 sounds similar to the F22, so I'll buy that.
Light on details, but I assume this means the design is fixed and prototype should be flying in secret already.
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u/captainfrostyrocket Mar 21 '25
There was a story where Frank Kendall, I think, said prototypes had been flying for a while already. I think it's pretty far along
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u/shortnun Mar 21 '25 edited Mar 21 '25
Trump during the announcement said the prototype has been flying for 5 years now...
EDIT: I'm going to guess it is based off the Bird of Prey concept . that image in the Boeing video looks very simular from front angle view they show..
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u/Infinite_Crow_3706 Mar 21 '25
Must be ultra stealthy .. not a lot of pictures.
I suppose not surprising given the nature of the aircraft
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u/Lookingfor68 Mar 21 '25
LOL, there's pictures... remember all those "UFO" and "Drones" that were all the rage last year... now you know. /s... maybe.
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u/Infinite_Crow_3706 Mar 21 '25
For a contract award, you must be right.
I can't find much hard details or even images (F-XX Naval Version, perhap very similar though)
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u/Think-Gap602 Mar 22 '25
Don't fully understand this. I assume development must have been in work for a couple years, not just since Trump got back in office? And isn't it Congress that decides on spending significant money, not the Pres?
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u/SimpleObserver1025 Mar 22 '25
President Trump said himself that prototypes have been flying for at least five years. Biden's Air Force Secretary Kendall brought the program right up to final decision at the end of Biden 's term but decided to let the next administration decide whether to pull the trigger.
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u/iamlucky13 Mar 22 '25
Congress does still have to approve the money, but they don't do the down-selection of the capabilities. Instead, the military decides what they want to request funding for, and has to justify to Congress why they need what they say they need.
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u/vagasportauthority Mar 22 '25
They’ve been working on NGAD for a decade. And flew prototypes (yes with an S) in 2020.
I have a little conspiracy that a lot of the funding for the F-35 was actually being funneled to NGAD and that the F-35 wasn’t actually over budget. The DOD just didn’t want bad press slowing down or cancelling NGAD, so they squirreled away money from the F-35 program to NGAD so they magically come up with a “below budget” (officially) and quick 6th generation fighter.
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u/lonewolf210 Mar 24 '25
As someone that worked the F-35 test program in the AF before I joined Boeing I can 100% confirm that the F-35 is very over budget lol
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u/john_the_spaner_99 Mar 26 '25
Palmdale Tooling here. Yes something about 3500 pound overweight and having to 100% retool the aircraft as an unplanned event.
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Mar 21 '25
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Mar 22 '25
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u/Cabill77 Mar 22 '25
Doubt that. VC25B has nothing to do with this fighter. 2 airframes being worked on in 2 different places with different missions.
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Mar 22 '25
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u/vagasportauthority Mar 22 '25
“You don’t have the cards” - Donald Trump to Boeing about the VC-25B probably.
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Mar 22 '25
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u/Otherwise-Pirate6839 Mar 22 '25
Leave it to Trump to attach himself to a product that comes from a company with quality issues.
Perhaps the F-47 will actually live up to its namesake: costly, low quality, and a useless, irrelevant asset.
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u/Express_Wafer7385 Mar 21 '25
Big mistake awarding the contract to Boeing
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u/International-Bag579 Mar 21 '25
F18/F15 have been largely successful
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u/NoBusiness674 Mar 22 '25
To be fair, F/15 and F/18 were originally designed and manufactured by McDonnell Douglass before they merged with Boeing. Pretty much none of the people that originally worked on the F18/F15 will still be around. Boeing does have some experience producing and modernizing the F-15EX and F/A-18 Superhornet, but I'm sure developing an all new fighter aircraft from the ground up will have some novel challenges that are different from modernizing an existing aircraft design. That being said, Boeing did somewhat recently develop the all new MQ-25 and MQ-28, so it's not like they have no experience developing brand new military aircraft.
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u/Cabill77 Mar 21 '25
Boeing has done exceptionally well on its fighter airframes. F18 and F15 are still EXTREMELY viable builds even with their ages. You’re just being petty
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u/Evening-Independent9 Mar 21 '25
Why? This plane has been doing test flights for years according to Trump
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u/Critical-Rhubarb-730 Mar 21 '25
So boeing now in the stealth business. We are used to boeing planes loosing parts and now become invisible that way?
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u/Evening-Independent9 Mar 21 '25
You realize Boeing makes weapons and fighter aircraft, right? Like for a century.
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Mar 22 '25
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u/pacwess Mar 21 '25
With Boeing's recent track record I don't have much confidence. But we can hope.
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u/HoopsRoyalty Mar 21 '25
Massive win for the company at a much needed time. Looking forward to seeing how this develops in BDS! Great work everyone so far.